Driver CPC, new guidance

[pig pen]

Might help some out
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... quirements

[tachograph]

Good find pig pen

Looks like the valid DQC requirement has been suspended for anyone who's DCPC expired on or after 1st March 2020.

This only applies to the UK, so if you're on international work you will still need a valid DQC.

This suspension exists until 1st October 2020.

They are also considering suspending the requirement for a valid DQC for drivers who have never held a valid DQC.

Temporary measures to allow drivers to continue driving

Most professional lorry and bus drivers must complete 35 hours periodic training every 5 years to maintain a driver qualification card (DQC). During the coronavirus outbreak it may be difficult for drivers to complete the required training.

The Department for Transport has therefore put in place temporary changes in professional driver qualification requirements

This means that drivers whose DQC expires in the period from 1 March 2020 to 30 September 2020 can continue driving.

In addition military drivers (who have different training) will be allowed to drive in civilian situations during that period.


Enforcement arrangements

Drivers will not be subject to enforcement action by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) in respect of the DCPC regulations. We have informed police forces of this position.

If you are stopped by an enforcement officer they can check to see that you have previously recently held a CPC or are in the military (including reservists acting under instruction).

Drivers should carry their expired DQC if they have it.

The drivers that this measure applies to will be required to comply with driver CPC rules from 1 October 2020.


Where this applies

These changes apply to Great Britain. Arrangements in Northern Ireland are devolved.

For international road transport drivers should have a Driver CPC, unless the type of transport is exempt from the requirements.

The end date will be kept under review. The proposed schedule includes a substantial period to recover missed training, whose duration will need further assessment.


Insurance

Road transport operators will need to check insurance validity, but should not expect any significant change in premiums.

[Zeethron]

Good news as my CPC ran out last Friday (and my CPC course was cut short last Tuesday leaving me still to do 1 day). However, I suspect that when I call the office to say that I am available for work, it will still be quiet.....

[fuse]

should bin it

[Zac_A]

It isn't going to go away, check out Section 7.2 of this:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007 ... 605_en.pdf

I sat one of the online DCPC courses today, there's some definite positive points to it (and no I wasn't watching TV while I was on the course)

[Bri_8691]

Hi All,
I’ve not driven professionally for 13 years plus - originally passed LGV 2 and then 1 (although never used the 1 in employment) - I stopped pre CPC etc, - Now working in a small factory.
My employer has asked me to drive a hire 7.5t, (assuming he can get one) to go collect a piece of machinery he’s bought.. (driving is not part of my usual job at all now)
This involves a 7 hour round trip of 440 miles.

I know the rules are very different these days - can anyone tell me if CPC is officially needed, even for a ‘one off’ trip of this nature? I read (rather quickly) that there are exemptions, but I am not, in effect, driving for ‘personal reasons’ or under the 60(ish) mile limit i read about.., and all during the ‘lock down’ too..

The DVLA helpline was closed when I tried ringing .. can anyone give clarity please? Thanks in advance..

[tachograph]

Hi All,
I’ve not driven professionally for 13 years plus - originally passed LGV 2 and then 1 (although never used the 1 in employment) - I stopped pre CPC etc, - Now working in a small factory.
My employer has asked me to drive a hire 7.5t, (assuming he can get one) to go collect a piece of machinery he’s bought.. (driving is not part of my usual job at all now)
This involves a 7 hour round trip of 440 miles.

I know the rules are very different these days - can anyone tell me if CPC is officially needed, even for a ‘one off’ trip of this nature? I read (rather quickly) that there are exemptions, but I am not, in effect, driving for ‘personal reasons’ or under the 60(ish) mile limit i read about.., and all during the ‘lock down’ too..

The DVLA helpline was closed when I tried ringing .. can anyone give clarity please? Thanks in advance..

As things stand at the moment, legally you will need to do the DCPC 35 hours periodic training (or initial DCPC mods 2 and 4) before doing the run, however as the DVSA are considering relaxing the rules for drivers who have never done the DCPC things could change at anytime.

[Bri_8691]

As things stand at the moment, legally you will need to do the DCPC 35 hours periodic training (or initial DCPC mods 2 and 4) before doing the run, however as the DVSA are considering relaxing the rules for drivers who have never done the DCPC things could change at anytime.

Thanks very much for your help.

[Wheel Nut]

The answer from Tachograph is very helpful to me too. I have had so much forked tongue advice about replacing my licence. I am post HGV for about 10 years and never did any classroom training. I gave up before the deadline, because of it. I was considering doing it, just to hold it and to try to renew my D4.

It is the order of which to do it in that has caused confusion. A trainer told me I need the Digital Card and D4 before I can do DCPC. Seems very strange.

At least the government advice to get an HGV licence seems well thought out.

The Department for Transport has actively considered the needs of blind and partially
sighted people in accessing this document. The text will be made available in full on the
Department’s website. The text may be freely downloaded and translated by individuals or
organisations for conversion into other accessible formats. If you have other needs in this
regard please contact the Department.

[Zac_A]

It is the order of which to do it in that has caused confusion. A trainer told me I need the Digital Card and D4 before I can do DCPC. Seems very strange.

Do you have a pre 1997 car licence? I'm guessing that you have, and if that is true then you automatically have your C1 entitlement (7.5T) which is independent of your C/C+E (lapsed) entitlement and you are allowed to do your DCPC.

You don't need to have a digi-tacho card, you might possibly be driving a 7.5T with an analogue tacho, but it would be worth getting one

It's easy enough to do your courses online now.

[dieseldave]

... It is the order of which to do it in that has caused confusion. A trainer told me I need the Digital Card and D4 before I can do DCPC. Seems very strange.

Us oldies are in the same boat... my LGV ran out around 15yrs ago but I have a pre '97 car licence.

I have a current DCPC cos I (just about!) got it all done last September.

The trainer who gave you that advice is simply incorrect, Zac_A is spot-on!

[tachograph]

The answer from Tachograph is very helpful to me too. I have had so much forked tongue advice about replacing my licence. I am post HGV for about 10 years and never did any classroom training. I gave up before the deadline, because of it. I was considering doing it, just to hold it and to try to renew my D4.

It is the order of which to do it in that has caused confusion. A trainer told me I need the Digital Card and D4 before I can do DCPC. Seems very strange.

I think this depends on your age, I'm pretty sure you have a pre 1997 car licence so if you're under 70 you will have a cat C1 licence and therefore can do the DCPC periodic training without having a HGV medical.

However the cat C1 entitlement that was gained by having a pre 1997 car licence expires the day before your 70th birthday.

As far as I'm aware you cannot do a DCPC course without having HGV/PCV entitlement, so if you're over 70 you will not have HGV entitlement and will have to do the HGV medical in order to renew your HGV entitlement before being able to do the DCPC courses.

[dieseldave]

As far as I'm aware you cannot do a DCPC course without having HGV/PCV entitlement, so if you're over 70 you will not have HGV entitlement and will have to do the HGV medical in order to renew your HGV entitlement before being able to do the DCPC courses.

I make it that you're spot-on too tachograph.

Last year my partner, who has a pre '97 car licence hit 70, so she received an option to have a medical if she wished to retain her C1 entitlement.

She declined the offer, but still had to send her licence to DVLA for them to renew her B entitlement.

When her licence came back, the C1 entitlement had magically disappeared.

[Zac_A]

I'd never even considered the 70 age issue, the thought of someone choosing to return to trucking at that age after being out of it for a prolonged period is an interesting one, I'd imagine they'd find the changes to the industry to be overwhelmingly massive.
Q would employers still treat them as an experienced trucker?

[good_friend]

JAUPT have said that the online option is only available until the 12th June but this may change due to circumstances

TBH I am surprised I haven't had more people requesting it as if they are stuck at home with nothing to do.....

The classes are smaller though so drivers may be put off by the fact they are expected to say something from time to time

[dieseldave]

JAUPT have said that the online option is only available until the 12th June but this may change due to circumstances

TBH I am surprised I haven't had more people requesting it as if they are stuck at home with nothing to do.....

The classes are smaller though so drivers may be put off by the fact they are expected to say something from time to time

Ahh!! ... Would that be engage and participate by any chance?

I've just spoken to an instructor friend who teaches DCPC, he told me that he's in the classroom today and there are 12 delegates doing a 7hr DCPC session on some kind of video link thingy.

Both he and the delegates seem quite pleased with it.

[fuse]

Bit of guidance from me ,When this virus is sorted and were back to getting the economy back THE DRIVER CPC AND THE WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE SHOULD BE BINNED ALONG WITH FORS CLOCS AND ALL THE OTHER NON PRODUCTIVE SIDE OF ROAD HAULAGE,sounds drastic but I think they are out of hand and full of their own importance

[tachograph]

Bit of guidance from me ,When this virus is sorted and were back to getting the economy back THE DRIVER CPC AND THE WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE SHOULD BE BINNED ALONG WITH FORS CLOCS AND ALL THE OTHER NON PRODUCTIVE SIDE OF ROAD HAULAGE,sounds drastic but I think they are out of hand and full of their own importance

The driver CPC certainly won't be binned as long as UK drivers go to any EU country and I'd say the same applies to the road transport working time regulations.

[good_friend]

As before, Tachograph is right again

TBH it's a little naive to assume our Government will ever give up something that actually makes them money with very little effort on their part

[Zac_A]

There's more at stake than the money issue I think:

How does a law get repealled? My understanding is that some MP has to get stuck in, make a solid argument, follow through on it and really really want to make it happen
I don't like quoting wikipedia but here's what they have on the topic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeal

Who's going to do that? What possible reason would they have to do that? Just to keep a small minority of truckers slightly less-unhappy than they usually are? What's in it for them?

Even if some MP (for some inexplicable reason) should motivate their self to do all that, how easily could it blow up in their face? They'd be accused of not caring about road safety, and the next time there was a notable death on the road involving an HGV, who'd get the blame for it?

As well as the driver getting the blame (and who almost automatically gets arrested at the scene of any incident), there would be accusing fingers pointing at that MP and it would be the end of their career. All it would take is a 0.01% increase in road fatalities involving HGVs and it would be seen as the result of scrapping DCPC

Whether or not there has been an improvement in road safety specifically associated with the introduction of DCPC, I do not know: I have some experience with statistics and I have a rightly cautious approach to them (as we all should have)

However... two minutes of searching on the web and I found an official document (link below)that shows a massive and rapid reduction in road fatalities (down by 30%) since 2008: What would MPs & Road Safety Campaigners make of this?

Oh, and there's that link I posted, which leads to a 43 page government document, which has already pronounced on the issue of should-it-stay-or-should-it-go-now.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-2018.pdf

[dieseldave]

Whether or not there has been an improvement in road safety specifically associated with the introduction of DCPC, I do not know: I have some experience with statistics and I have a rightly cautious approach to them (as we all should have)

Hi Zac_A,

I too have a very cautious approach to statistics, because opposing camps can put (selected) true facts and figures together to support their views.

[fuse]

W.hat I was getting at was to get the country going again we need to dump things like FORS ,CLOCS ECT Driver cpc In my eyes the clocs and fors are like the mafia you need it to work ,no different to protection money I just do not think they make the job safer

[Zac_A]

Whether or not there has been an improvement in road safety specifically associated with the introduction of DCPC, I do not know: I have some experience with statistics and I have a rightly cautious approach to them (as we all should have)

Hi Zac_A,

I too have a very cautious approach to statistics, because opposing camps can put (selected) true facts and figures together to support their views.

"Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics". I couldn't agree more.

In the life I had before being in the logistics industry I used to have to use and interpret stats on a regular basis, so I don't accept them at face value. However when the information and reports come from the ONS I think we can be satisfied they've been through some expert scrutiny, whereas the general public will never be sufficiently interested in the in's and out's of how stats are put together (p values, sample size, the type of statistical test, whether the data has or has not been legitimately "transformed")

Whether we love them or loathe them, stats are an fundamental fact of life, they're what policy makers use to influence our lives. Anyone who wants to 'influence the influencers' needs to 'speak the same language'.

My favourite view of stats is not the famous quote I've used at the beginning of the post: Nobel Prize winner, Lord Ernest Rutherford, widely regarded as one of our greatest ever physicists/chemists (on the same level as Einstein) and usually considered to be the man gave us our modern view of the structure of the atom, famously put down another scientist's work by saying:
"If your experiment needed statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment"

[squibby17]

As things stand at the moment, legally you will need to do the DCPC 35 hours periodic training (or initial DCPC mods 2 and 4) before doing the run, however as the DVSA are considering relaxing the rules for drivers who have never done the DCPC things could change at anytime.

I've never done my CPC but someone made a comment in another forum last week about just 'doing' your CPC online now... having seen this thread on the go, tachograph seems to suggest the same.

When I read through, it seemed that the online training was only to tick the 35 hours training box every five years. Am I right in thinking anyone who hasn't held a CPC card before still has to go through the four tests? Tachograph seems to suggest it's an 'either/or' thing at the moment?

My class 2 license only dates back to 2014, but if there's a route to get CPC which I'm stuck not building stages it makes sense to take it!

Thanks

[good_friend]

As things stand at the moment, legally you will need to do the DCPC 35 hours periodic training (or initial DCPC mods 2 and 4) before doing the run, however as the DVSA are considering relaxing the rules for drivers who have never done the DCPC things could change at anytime.

I've never done my CPC but someone made a comment in another forum last week about just 'doing' your CPC online now... having seen this thread on the go, tachograph seems to suggest the same.

When I read through, it seemed that the online training was only to tick the 35 hours training box every five years. Am I right in thinking anyone who hasn't held a CPC card before still has to go through the four tests? Tachograph seems to suggest it's an 'either/or' thing at the moment?

My class 2 license only dates back to 2014, but if there's a route to get CPC which I'm stuck not building stages it makes sense to take it!

Thanks

Sorry I missed this or would have answered earlier

If you are a new driver then you need to take module 2 and module 4 before driving. As a JAUPT registered trainer I am not allowed to train those 2 things. They tend to be carried out by the people who do your driving instruction and normally at the same time. The army haven't been doing these bits with their drivers and so sending them out into the world without a full qualification

The only courses for CPC are the usual CPC courses done through conferencing software and intended for the driver who has held a CPC licence previously or passed their test before 1997

That may of not been explained as well as I would like but at least I tried

[tachograph]

I've never done my CPC but someone made a comment in another forum last week about just 'doing' your CPC online now... having seen this thread on the go, tachograph seems to suggest the same.

When I read through, it seemed that the online training was only to tick the 35 hours training box every five years. Am I right in thinking anyone who hasn't held a CPC card before still has to go through the four tests? Tachograph seems to suggest it's an 'either/or' thing at the moment?

My class 2 license only dates back to 2014, but if there's a route to get CPC which I'm stuck not building stages it makes sense to take it!

Oops, sorry I saw this post the other day but forgot to get back to it as I intended


It's not an either or situation for everyone, whether or not you need to do mods 2 and 4 depends on your situation.

You passed cat C in 2014 but if you passed the car test before 1997 you would have already had cat C1 HGV entitlement on your licence before the DCPC came into force in September 2009.

If you held any HGV entitlement before September 2009 but have never completed the 35 hours periodic training you can decide whether you want to do the 35 hours periodic training or MODs 2 and 4, personally I'd probably go for the 35 hours training but it's up-to you.

However, if you never had any HGV entitlement before September 2009 (10th September 2009 if my memory serves me correctly) then as good_friend says you will need to do MODs 2 and 4.

So it all depends on when you passed the car test.

[good_friend]

If you held any HGV entitlement before September 2009 but have never completed the 35 hours periodic training you can decide whether you want to do the 35 hours periodic training or MODs 2 and 4, personally I'd probably go for the 35 hours training but it's up-to you.

I can't agree more

I've just taken them as I am in the middle of taking my bus test and they were blinkin' horrible. My instructor reckons that once you have actually done any driving it's really tricky to pass the hazard awareness test. I passed but it took hours of practice and I normally can pass exams. Now just got show me tell me left

[Hurryup&wait]

Hi All,
I’ve not driven professionally for 13 years plus - originally passed LGV 2 and then 1 (although never used the 1 in employment) - I stopped pre CPC etc, - Now working in a small factory.
My employer has asked me to drive a hire 7.5t, (assuming he can get one) to go collect a piece of machinery he’s bought.. (driving is not part of my usual job at all now)
This involves a 7 hour round trip of 440 miles.

I know the rules are very different these days - can anyone tell me if CPC is officially needed, even for a ‘one off’ trip of this nature? I read (rather quickly) that there are exemptions, but I am not, in effect, driving for ‘personal reasons’ or under the 60(ish) mile limit i read about.., and all during the ‘lock down’ too..

The DVLA helpline was closed when I tried ringing .. can anyone give clarity please? Thanks in advance..

Good news for you, You do not require a driver CPC.

Directly from the government website https://www.gov.uk/become-lorry-bus-driver.

You do not need it because driving is not the main part of your job. Also I don’t believe bringing back a piece of machinery he has bought would be considered commercial transport.

That’s my take on it anyway. Crack on and enjoy. A quick call to a transport knowledgeable solicitor would be a good place to get a definitive answer as too many varying opinions around here and a VOSA office would be probably worse.

[good_friend]

I would disagree as you are driving for hire or reward as your boss isn't expecting you to do it for nothing, hence you will need a CPC

[tachograph]

@ Hurryup&wait

I also disagree, the driving not being his main job thing only applies when carrying materials or equipment the driver will use in his job.

He's been asked to fetch machinery by his boss so it's definitely a commercial journey.

Sent from my mobile.