LQ, no ones gotta clue

Shifting 33 euros of Screenwash, labelled up as cl3 Haz load UN1993 ,3 , ii, limited quantity for those intrigued .

Gross weight 15147.

So the word from the sender is nah mate it is LQ but very limited quantity. Can I have LQ placards please? No drive, we don’t issue them as not required.

Walkers transport are pulling them out their yard, speak to 2 of their drivers, nah mate don’t need basic ADR or LQ markers, crack on.

Bosses word. If it ain’t going on a ferry, it ain’t getting marked up.

So , from what I read. I’ve done my bit to dig deeper , I’m assured I don’t need markings etc. I’m pretty sure anything over 8000kg needs marking whether domestic or not. Where do I stand from a legal P.O.V.

If i get a disclaimer signed by boss am I covered?

Or am I completely wrong and everyone else around me is correct?

You don’t need labels for transport by road, think your adr boards need to be on though due to overall weight

It’s not your problem anyway, even if it’s 45 gallon drums of petrol, your planner/dgsa told you it’s ok, simply crack on!

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Wheel Nut:
It’s not your problem anyway, even if it’s 45 gallon drums of petrol, your planner/dgsa told you it’s ok, simply crack on!

Preferably with an email to cover your arse,just in case.

Alfa1M:
Shifting 33 euros of Screenwash, labelled up as cl3 Haz load UN1993 ,3 , ii, limited quantity for those intrigued .

Gross weight 15147.

So the word from the sender is nah mate it is LQ but very limited quantity. Can I have LQ placards please? No drive, we don’t issue them as not required.

Walkers transport are pulling them out their yard, speak to 2 of their drivers, nah mate don’t need basic ADR or LQ markers, crack on.

Bosses word. If it ain’t going on a ferry, it ain’t getting marked up.

So , from what I read. I’ve done my bit to dig deeper , I’m assured I don’t need markings etc. I’m pretty sure anything over 8000kg needs marking whether domestic or not. Where do I stand from a legal P.O.V.

If i get a disclaimer signed by boss am I covered?

Or am I completely wrong and everyone else around me is correct?

Transport by sea is different to transport by road, so a container on a ship may need placards when transport by road doesnt.

From memory, the size of the individual receptacle determines if its limited quantity or not. If the bottles are small enough, they may be LQ.

The 8000 kg is part of the exempted quantity rules IIRC, so not relevant here.

You’ll need Diesel Dave for a proper answer, but I reckon your gaffer is right on this one.

sling the labels and tell them at the ferry check in that its groupage and crack on.
thats the way it works with no drama or fuss.

Alfa1M:
Shifting 33 euros of Screenwash, labelled up as cl3 Haz load UN1993 ,3 , ii, limited quantity for those intrigued .

Gross weight 15147.

So the word from the sender is nah mate it is LQ but very limited quantity. Can I have LQ placards please? No drive, we don’t issue them as not required.

Hi Alfa1M,

<Rolls sleeves up> There’s no such thing as “very limited quantity”
It’s either LQ or it isn’t.

Alfa1M:
Walkers transport are pulling them out their yard, speak to 2 of their drivers, nah mate don’t need basic ADR or LQ markers, crack on.

They’re completely wrong about this.

A vehicle that has an authorised GVW >12t needs 2 LQ placards (250mm X 250mm,) when carrying >8t of LQs.
One placard to be displayed on the front of the vehicle, the other placard to be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. The carrier (your boss) should make provision for supplying LQ placards.

Very straightforward due to no mention of ferries or ISO containers in the OP.

LQ Placard

Alfa1M:
Bosses word. If it ain’t going on a ferry, it ain’t getting marked up.

He’s wrong too! (See above.)

Alfa1M:
So , from what I read. I’ve done my bit to dig deeper , I’m assured I don’t need markings etc. I’m pretty sure anything over 8000kg needs marking whether domestic or not. Where do I stand from a legal P.O.V.

See above.

Alfa1M:
If i get a disclaimer signed by boss am I covered?

You don’t need a disclaimer because you’re not responsible for this.

If the boss says it’s OK then you’re good to go.
A prohibition awaits if caught though, then the boss will see breach of ADR 3.4.13(a) written on it, then you’ll be probably get parked up until the correct markings are displayed.

The carrier (your boss) should make provision for supplying LQ placards if he’d like to avoid a prohibition.

It’s the boss’ choice though.

Alfa1M:
Or am I completely wrong and everyone else around me is correct?

No mate, I make it that you’re about right, but you’ve nothing to worry about.

dieseldave:

Alfa1M:
Shifting 33 euros of Screenwash, labelled up as cl3 Haz load UN1993 ,3 , ii, limited quantity for those intrigued .

Gross weight 15147.

So the word from the sender is nah mate it is LQ but very limited quantity. Can I have LQ placards please? No drive, we don’t issue them as not required.

Hi Alfa1M,

<Rolls sleeves up> There’s no such thing as “very limited quantity”
It’s either LQ or it isn’t.

Alfa1M:
Walkers transport are pulling them out their yard, speak to 2 of their drivers, nah mate don’t need basic ADR or LQ markers, crack on.

They’re completely wrong about this.

A vehicle that has an authorised GVW >12t needs 2 LQ placards (250mm X 250mm,) when carrying >8t of LQs.
One placard to be displayed on the front of the vehicle, the other placard to be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. The carrier (your boss) should make provision for supplying LQ placards.

Very straightforward due to no mention of ferries or ISO containers in the OP.

LQ Placard
0

Alfa1M:
Bosses word. If it ain’t going on a ferry, it ain’t getting marked up.

He’s wrong too! (See above.)

Alfa1M:
So , from what I read. I’ve done my bit to dig deeper , I’m assured I don’t need markings etc. I’m pretty sure anything over 8000kg needs marking whether domestic or not. Where do I stand from a legal P.O.V.

See above.

Alfa1M:
If i get a disclaimer signed by boss am I covered?

You don’t need a disclaimer because you’re not responsible for this.

If the boss says it’s OK then you’re good to go.
A prohibition awaits if caught though, then the boss will see breach of ADR 3.4.13(a) written on it, then you’ll be probably get parked up until the correct markings are displayed.

The carrier (your boss) should make provision for supplying LQ placards if he’d like to avoid a prohibition.

It’s the boss’ choice though.

Alfa1M:
Or am I completely wrong and everyone else around me is correct?

No mate, I make it that you’re about right, but you’ve nothing to worry about.

Crikey Diesel Dave, that’s knocked me on my backside! I thought I had a good enough handle on this ADR stuff but I’m rather disappointed at how much I’ve forgotten. I’m bloody glad you’re here.

Oh well, looks like the car isnt getting washed this weekend. Someones hitting the books.

Nite Owl:
Crikey Diesel Dave, that’s knocked me on my backside!

Blimey Nite Owl, that wasn’t my intention.

I didn’t have much time last night, and I’ve just re-read what I wrote so apologies if it came across a a bit short.

Nite Owl:
I thought I had a good enough handle on this ADR stuff but I’m rather disappointed at how much I’ve forgotten. I’m bloody glad you’re here.

Oh well, looks like the car isnt getting washed this weekend. Someones hitting the books.

If you’re an employed driver, then there’s nothing to worry about.

It’s quite a bit different if you own or manage one or more trucks though.

dieseldog999:
sling the labels and tell them at the ferry check in that its groupage and crack on.
thats the way it works with no drama or fuss.

That’s fine until the Port Authority or the ferry company ask to see the load, cos then you’d be in serious breach of The Merchant Shipping Act and then in front of a court before you know it.

Let’s just say that the fines for non-declaration of dangerous goods to a ferry company are quite eye watering for you and your boss, but it’s up to you.

I hope no one minds me butting in but it seems a good place to ask.

Ive got two seperate loads on for Monday, both limited quantity. One is 6t class 2.1, butane canisters. The other 2.5t class 3, resin solution. On an artic.

Ive made sure to seperate them in the vehicle. Being different classes, would I have to display orange boards or does this still only need LQ diamonds?

Am I right in thinking after dropping off the first one I could remove them?

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Nite Owl:
Transport by sea is different to transport by road, so a container on a ship may need placards when transport by road doesnt.

Hi Nite Owl,

The rules for ISO containers are the same by Road, Rail and Sea.
An ISO container must have the relevant placard(s) displayed on all four sides.

Nite Owl:
From memory, the size of the individual receptacle determines if its limited quantity or not. If the bottles are small enough, they may be LQ.

That’s correct.
All substances have an individual LQ size limit for the inner packagings which directly contain the substance.
The really nasty stuff can’t be done as LQs.

The load was told to the OP as LQs on his paprwork, so we can take it that it is LQs.

LQs can then be packed into a box (max mass = 30Kg) OR,
Placed on a stretch-wrapped tray (max mass = 20Kg)

If you’ve got the books, you’d look at ADR 3.4 for this.

Nite Owl:
The 8000 kg is part of the exempted quantity rules IIRC, so not relevant here.

Nearly!!
The bit that’s not relevant here is “the exempted quantity rules” (EQ) which is a different concept altogether and is dealt with at ADR 3.5. The EQ limit is 1,000 PACKAGES (think of this as a box-count), which cannot be exceeded, and so the most weight that you’d be thinking about under EQs is very probably no more than a tonne.

I can’t tell whether you had the 0, 20, 333, 1,000 and unlimited in mind, but that’s used for when the DGs are normally packaged ( = NOT packaged as LQs or EQs) and is dealt with at ADR 1.1.3.6

El Deano:
I hope no one minds me butting in but it seems a good place to ask.

Ive got two seperate loads on for Monday, both limited quantity. One is 6t class 2.1, butane canisters. The other 2.5t class 3, resin solution. On an artic.

Ive made sure to seperate them in the vehicle. Being different classes, would I have to display orange boards or does this still only need LQ diamonds?

Hi El Deano,

Orange boards are not required for the job that you’ve described because you’ve said that the whole load is packaged as LQs.

You need 2 X LQ placards as I’ve described above because you have a vehicle that has a permitted GVW exceeding 12t AND you’re carrying >8t of LQs.

El Deano:
Am I right in thinking after dropping off the first one I could remove them?

Yes, and it doesn’t matter which drop you do first!

Removing the LQ boards is perfectly OK after your first drop as you’d then have less than 8t of LQs on board.

Wheel Nut:
It’s not your problem anyway, even if it’s 45 gallon drums of petrol, your planner/dgsa told you it’s ok, simply crack on!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spot-on Malc!!

The boss will take care of any prohibition(s) that may result.

Grumpy Dad:
You don’t need labels for transport by road, …

Hi GD,

The OP does need 2 X LQ placards as I’ve described in my posts above.

You’re be correct if it were normal UN Class placards being discussed though.

Grumpy Dad:
… think your adr boards need to be on though due to overall weight

Even if you’re carrying a full load of LQs on an artic, you wouldn’t need orange plates.

Orange plates only come into consideration when a load of DGs in normal packages exceed the relevant ADR Transport Category limit (0, 20, 333, 1,000) and is used when the DGs are NOT packaged as LQs.

There is no connection between the notion of LQs and the ADR Transport Category limits because they are two completely separate (and unconnected) forms of exemption.

Dave’s ADR Trivia
As long as all limits are respected, both exemptions can be used on the same vehicle at the same time.

bobbya:

Wheel Nut:
It’s not your problem anyway, even if it’s 45 gallon drums of petrol, your planner/dgsa told you it’s ok, simply crack on!

Preferably with an email to cover your arse,just in case.

Hi bobbya,

An employed driver wouldn’t need an email because ADR says that the Carrier (= boss) is responsible for the boss’ decision, so there’s no “just in case” about it.

If the fan gets hit with brown stuff on the topic under discussion, the boss is answerable to DVSA/Police/Traffic Commissioner, NOT an employed driver.

lately we have been backloading loads of hay and straw out of England (Hexam area ) back to Northern Ireland . Loaded into curtainsiders straped down and off to Cairnryan . There when booking on to the ferry you get issued with 4 stickers to put on the trailer and somebody somewhere has sent in a declaration form of what you are carrying and how much of it .I guess thats the difference betwen road and sea regulations at work .
4 of theses

KLTB0168_1.jpg640×640 63.9 KB

dieseldave:

Wheel Nut:
It’s not your problem anyway, even if it’s 45 gallon drums of petrol, your planner/dgsa told you it’s ok, simply crack on!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spot-on Malc!!

The boss will take care of any prohibition(s) that may result.

I put this under the heading, (A little knowledge is a dangerous thing)

I am of the belief that many drivers talk themselves into fines and court!

Cheers for the answer, dieseldave. [emoji106]

Never carried mixed classes LQ before.

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beefy4605:
lately we have been backloading loads of hay and straw out of England (Hexam area ) back to Northern Ireland . Loaded into curtainsiders straped down and off to Cairnryan . There when booking on to the ferry you get issued with 4 stickers to put on the trailer and somebody somewhere has sent in a declaration form of what you are carrying and how much of it .I guess thats the difference betwen road and sea regulations at work.

Hi beefy4065,

That’s quite right mate, it’s because IMDG says that an unaccompanied trailer needs the relevant UN Class placards on all four sides when going on a ferry.

In this case, you’re carrying UN 1327 HAY or STRAW, 4.1 so that’s the reason for those particular striped placards.

ADR says that UN 1327 is “not subject to ADR” so that’s why you won’t need an ADR Card or orange plates regardless of the amount you carry.

You’re right, the Road and Sea Regs are a bit different in certain areas.