Dozens drown after migrant boat capsizes in Channel

bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-59406632

It’s obviously a tragic incident.

But from a truckers perspective the huge influx of illegal crossing via the channel is a result of brexit right? I personally do not think the number of illegal crossing has gone up. I think before brexit they could just jump in the back of a lorry and with less checks had a good chance of making it across. Now with vehicle checks it’s harder to get through to England.
So we are not so much seeing an increase in illegal immigrants we are now just more aware of them whereas before they were slipping through without us even knowing.

I heard something on the radio (LBC) about an illegal immigrant who pretty much said the same. He had a choice. He could pay the premium to cross in the back of the truck or pay a cheaper fee and travel 100 miles under the truck on the axle. Which must of been scary as hell.

I’m going to say something here that probably won’t be popular but I struggle to have any empathy for what happened in this incident. I’ve had first hand experience of the so called refugees and their antics in Calais.
Let’s call this “crisis” what it really is- an invasion. No different than a mob breaking into your house and demanding the right to stay there while you spend years trying to get the legal system to evict them

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There are lots of different things going on here.
Brexit is pretty much nothing to do with the number of attempted illegal crossings.
.
Late at night for me, but quickly,

The number of potential migrants, changes with world situations, conflicts etc.
The methods chosen changes: as more checks happen in Calais ferry port, they go the train. More checks on the train, Dieppe, LeHavre, Caen etc. Then as those places get tougher its small boats.
There are chancers around everywhere, but they do look for weak points. The professional people smugglers are after getting then over, so, like everywhere, a good review back to their mates brings more trade in. They may be ruthless and nasty, but that doesnt mean they are stupid at all. . But many illegal immigrants arrive....on aeroplanes.... They are not illegal when they arrive, but overstay visas etc. . Brexit hasnt introduced any real increase in physical checks to vehicles that affect stowaways. The level of checks for stowaways is really quite good, that is why they are using dangerous small boats. Very dramatic for Farage and the press, but not as great a problem as some would have us believe.
Brexit has meant that we are out of the Dublin agreement I think, so we are sending back to France fewer (it was never many) than previously. 5? returned so far 2021.
.
Physical checks are much better, year on year, in my experience. So that is why we see the boats.
Doubtless some get across with the co-operation of drivers, we all have heard about that, but stowaways are, although around, not common if you use a bit of sense.
Get caught with them in the UK side of the border, big problems, get caught French side of the border, normally much less of an issue, Still questions to be answered, but a more realistic attitude from the authorities, so long as you aren`t silly.

Under the Dublin agreement how many were returned annually Franglais?

But if a Dublin agreement could be made between states what’s the issue with a bilateral agreement? You know a bit like the several bilateral agreements we have with France on a number of issues…

It’s funny cos EU states with non EU borders are pretty good at preventing illegal immigration… France is less concerned with illegal migrants provided they’re trying to migrate elsewhere
Plus ca change

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On a personal level I wouldnt wish drowning on any one. The fact is as stated above we are being occupied by an illegal force ,they are not migrating and they are not refugees. Cant imagine the horror of being from a land locked country and ending up in the rough cold salty sea. Its not what they signed up for.

What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?

commonrail:
What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?

Hotels, cash, food, phones, a new identity etc etc

commonrail:
What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?

I imagine easier to work, the language (a lot speak english) and a better benefits system compared to countries like France.
There’s a reason immigrants in France live in camps and in often very poor conditions. That would not fly over here.
bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-59410982

For example in the case of work. There is a reason if you look at nail saloons a lot of the workers appear to be filipino. Or car washes that have a lot of middle eastern workers. Once you get into the UK you can quite easily find yourself work.

Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

Internment was a logical step

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GOG47:
I’m going to say something here that probably won’t be popular but I struggle to have any empathy for what happened in this incident. I’ve had first hand experience of the so called refugees and their antics in Calais.
Let’s call this “crisis” what it really is- an invasion. No different than a mob breaking into your house and demanding the right to stay there while you spend years trying to get the legal system to evict them

More like UK national and local government is offering these economic migrant scammers free handouts.That are so lucrative and obviously so much better than what the French are offering them.That they are prepared to risk drowning to make an illegal channel crossing to come over here and take it.

alamcculloch:
On a personal level I wouldnt wish drowning on any one. The fact is as stated above we are being occupied by an illegal force ,they are not migrating and they are not refugees. Cant imagine the horror of being from a land locked country and ending up in the rough cold salty sea. Its not what they signed up for.

If they didn’t sign up for it then why did they climb into a small boat recreational boat to take on a Channel Crossing.
The truth is whatever it is that our government are offering them it’s clearly better than anything that the French etc are offering them.So much so as to be worth the risk of dying for.Our at best useless, clueless, at worse corrupt, government are 100% to blame for it.

switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

It’s nothing to do with demonising anyone.
We are lucky enough to be living in a better part of the world than them largely because we haven’t populated ourselves beyond our resources.
So they want to move in and take what’s ours and the government are helping them to do it.
It’s that simple.

Our government definitely has to take some of the blame for the influx of migrants into the EU.
If you publically denounce and support pro-democracy protestors in Syria, Libya, Iran etc. You are weakening their regime. Which is exactly what happened during the arab springs. Which results in people fleeing a once safe even if authoritian country for a better life elsewhere.

Syria was a stable country before the arab springs. What caused it? Western pressure mixed with western tech firms like Facebook and YouTube allowing pro democracy groups to organize.

Monkey241:

switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

Internment was a logical step

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Listen to it

switchlogic:

Monkey241:

switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

Internment was a logical step

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Listen to it

It doesn’t alter the necessity

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Monkey241:

switchlogic:

Monkey241:

switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

Internment was a logical step

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Listen to it

It doesn’t alter the necessity

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Ok

Monkey241:

switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3

Internment was a logical step

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lock up 100 people based on the off chance that one of them might do something bad, and because they are foreign. its logical but would you treat English people like that ?

There is one sure-fire way to stop this illegal trade in human beings and that requires immediate action from the International Court of Justice. No ifs, no buts, quick trial and everyone in the smuggling chain, however minor their involvement, swings from a rope.

idrive:

commonrail:
What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?

Hotels, cash, food, phones, a new identity etc etc

Not really - mainland europe has taken hundreds of thousands more refugees than the uk - germany took a million in one year - they have a far better economy than the uk.
I
They dont get cash or phones - they get 39 quid on a “payment card” for food.