Harry Monk:
The thing is, it wasn’t an enormous palaver before 1992, just half-an-hour stood on the stairs at Dover, and I’m sure even that wouldn’t be necessary nowadays. I’d be quite happy to go back to the days of T-forms, chuck your paperwork in at Rho Customs at mid-day Tuesday then go on the lash with your buddies for the rest of the day.
The trouble is, Harry that the infrastructure and people aren’t there any more. It will take time to train people, build parking etc.
As for an IT based solution…can you think of any IT project the government has delivered on time and on budget that has actually worked?
(genuine question, not being sarky)
Or is it just we don’t hear about the ones that are on time and on budget?
And considering almost all my dealings with government departments both personally and at work is online, I don’t seem to experience many difficulties, in fact many of the new online systems have made it easier.
GasGas:
The real reason there is a driver shortage, comes down I think to property prices. Once lenders started taking into account the combined incomes of couples one of the big dampers on house prices was taken off.
Now you need two full-time average incomes to service the average mortgage. Which means mum and dad both go to work and share childcare duties. But dad can’t if he’s a lorry driver and out all week. So mum, who may well be earning more than dad, is still expected to do all the child-stuff as well. Something has to give, and dad usually ends up getting a 9-5 job not driving a truck.
As my 83-y-o Mum says, “Women fought for the right to work, and they won the obligation to work”.
GasGas:
The real reason there is a driver shortage, comes down I think to property prices. Once lenders started taking into account the combined incomes of couples one of the big dampers on house prices was taken off.
Now you need two full-time average incomes to service the average mortgage. Which means mum and dad both go to work and share childcare duties. But dad can’t if he’s a lorry driver and out all week. So mum, who may well be earning more than dad, is still expected to do all the child-stuff as well. Something has to give, and dad usually ends up getting a 9-5 job not driving a truck.
As my 83-y-o Mum says, “Women fought for the right to work, and they won the obligation to work”.
kr79:
There’s a bloke rings in lbc regular. Sounds like he does a lot of very time critical stuff with vans and small trucks who is very worried about problems with customs.
Always very interesting and well reasoned though
Yes, and he took the idiot Rees-Mogg apart.
The hard-line ‘no-dealers’ DNHAFC of the implications of what they are proposing.
JR-M, like Bo Jo, is the product of an Eton education. If I were either of their parents, I’d be asking for my money back.
I have just listened to it. It must have been edited since first broadcast, because I heard a chap express his genuine concerns very well. They seem to have now cut out the bit where he " took the idiot Rees-Mogg apart ".
There are many derogatory descriptions of Rees Mogg, a lot of which I would agree with, but one thing I am sure of, he is not an idiot. Boris on the other hand…
Regards John.
Harry Monk:
The thing is, it wasn’t an enormous palaver before 1992, just half-an-hour stood on the stairs at Dover, and I’m sure even that wouldn’t be necessary nowadays. I’d be quite happy to go back to the days of T-forms, chuck your paperwork in at Rho Customs at mid-day Tuesday then go on the lash with your buddies for the rest of the day.
The trouble is, Harry that the infrastructure and people aren’t there any more. It will take time to train people, build parking etc.
As for an IT based solution…can you think of any IT project the government has delivered on time and on budget that has actually worked?
(genuine question, not being sarky)
How does the rest of the world get into Europe? On a boat isn’t the answer I’m looking for. Seriously, I’ve no experience of entering Europe from anywhere other than the UK. So, does everyone else suffer these doomsday scenarios that we’re all looking forward to?
Harry Monk:
The thing is, it wasn’t an enormous palaver before 1992, just half-an-hour stood on the stairs at Dover, and I’m sure even that wouldn’t be necessary nowadays. I’d be quite happy to go back to the days of T-forms, chuck your paperwork in at Rho Customs at mid-day Tuesday then go on the lash with your buddies for the rest of the day.
The trouble is, Harry that the infrastructure and people aren’t there any more. It will take time to train people, build parking etc.
As for an IT based solution…can you think of any IT project the government has delivered on time and on budget that has actually worked?
(genuine question, not being sarky)
How does the rest of the world get into Europe? On a boat isn’t the answer I’m looking for. Seriously, I’ve no experience of entering Europe from anywhere other than the UK. So, does everyone else suffer these doomsday scenarios that we’re all looking forward to?
oof, an excellent question mon brave.
I thought a goodly number of them paddled out 12 miles from the Libyan coast complete with their well heeled ‘guide’ and awaited one of the free ferries, currently docking at some place once known as Spain.
Nite Owl:
How does the rest of the world get into Europe? On a boat isn’t the answer I’m looking for. Seriously, I’ve no experience of entering Europe from anywhere other than the UK. So, does everyone else suffer these doomsday scenarios that we’re all looking forward to?
oof, an excellent question mon brave.
According to the remainers 1,000’s of trucks and their drivers go missing never to be seen again in the massive black holes that are the Russian/Baltic states borders or Serbia/Croatia/Hungary or Poland/Belarus or Turkey/Bulgaria.As for Iranian trucks seen here the remainers also say that the consignee or shipper had long since closed down or retired before they could even get across the EU border let alone across the Channel.
Harry Monk:
The thing is, it wasn’t an enormous palaver before 1992, just half-an-hour stood on the stairs at Dover, and I’m sure even that wouldn’t be necessary nowadays. I’d be quite happy to go back to the days of T-forms, chuck your paperwork in at Rho Customs at mid-day Tuesday then go on the lash with your buddies for the rest of the day.
The trouble is, Harry that the infrastructure and people aren’t there any more. It will take time to train people, build parking etc.
As for an IT based solution…can you think of any IT project the government has delivered on time and on budget that has actually worked?
(genuine question, not being sarky)
How does the rest of the world get into Europe? On a boat isn’t the answer I’m looking for. Seriously, I’ve no experience of entering Europe from anywhere other than the UK. So, does everyone else suffer these doomsday scenarios that we’re all looking forward to?
IF
If we crash out in a hard Brexit well be in WTO terms won’t we?
Those look like hard, expensive and possibly slow for transporters.
Most countries currently trading with the EU, (those coming in from the outside) have bilateral trading agreements with the EU. These agreements allow vehicles into each others countries.
IF we crash out we will have NO such agreements with either our current EU partners or ANY country with have agreements with through our membership of the EU.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”?
It would have to be a monumentally horrific deal to be worse than a “No deal”.
Could we “just carry on with” the existing rules as if we hadn’t left the EU?
Well pretty pointless leaving now then isn’t it ?
And how many existing traders would let go a chance to get a better deal? If we’re isolated in painful WTO terms we are not in a strong negotiating position.
'Re the original broadcast.
What of the comments of the Brexiteer?
If Dover becomes blocked just use alternative routes!
Dover is cheap and quick, who will fund the time and money involved in running Immingham or wherever?
Imports will cost us more, exports will cost our customers more, so loosing us trade.
Franglais:
If we crash out in a hard Brexit well be in WTO terms won’t we?
Those look like hard, expensive and possibly slow for transporters.
Most countries currently trading with the EU, (those coming in from the outside) have bilateral trading agreements with the EU. These agreements allow vehicles into each others countries.
IF we crash out we will have NO such agreements with either our current EU partners or ANY country with have agreements with through our membership of the EU.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”?
It would have to be a monumentally horrific deal to be worse than a “No deal”.
Could we “just carry on with” the existing rules as if we hadn’t left the EU?
Well pretty pointless leaving now then isn’t it ?
And how many existing traders would let go a chance to get a better deal? If we’re isolated in painful WTO terms we are not in a strong negotiating position.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
As there are already these type of agreements in place why have the EU not offered this to the UK? Perhaps the answer is the wish of the politicians in Brussels to punish the UK for wanting to leave and thereby showing their true agenda. It is quite ironic that whilst they are drawing up plans to make entry to the EU as difficult as possible from the UK on Europe’s southern borders any Tom, ■■■■ or Mohammad can just casually turn up with no papers and gain entry.
The European parliament may look quite different after the next round of European elections with a lot more nationalist MEP’s from Eastern Europe, Brussels has only itself to blame for the rise of nationalist politics across Europe but as usual will just bury it’s head in the sand and continue on the same course
Franglais:
If we crash out in a hard Brexit well be in WTO terms won’t we?
Those look like hard, expensive and possibly slow for transporters.
Most countries currently trading with the EU, (those coming in from the outside) have bilateral trading agreements with the EU. These agreements allow vehicles into each others countries.
IF we crash out we will have NO such agreements with either our current EU partners or ANY country with have agreements with through our membership of the EU.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”?
It would have to be a monumentally horrific deal to be worse than a “No deal”.
Could we “just carry on with” the existing rules as if we hadn’t left the EU?
Well pretty pointless leaving now then isn’t it ?
And how many existing traders would let go a chance to get a better deal? If we’re isolated in painful WTO terms we are not in a strong negotiating position.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
As there are already these type of agreements in place why have the EU not offered this to the UK? Perhaps the answer is the wish of the politicians in Brussels to punish the UK for wanting to leave and thereby showing their true agenda. It is quite ironic that whilst they are drawing up plans to make entry to the EU as difficult as possible from the UK on Europe’s southern borders any Tom, ■■■■ or Mohammad can just casually turn up with no papers and gain entry.
The European parliament may look quite different after the next round of European elections with a lot more nationalist MEP’s from Eastern Europe, Brussels has only itself to blame for the rise of nationalist politics across Europe but as usual will just bury it’s head in the sand and continue on the same course
Come on !
"Why haven’t that offered these terms? "
We are in the middle of negotiations aren’t we ?
I daresay these terms are part of those negotiations. Do you really expect any party in talks to give away a right, such as free movement of vehicles, as a gift?
Our gov is talking about how we are going to get a better deal, and how strong our position and negotiators are. How we can get a better deal than the EU can win for us.
Simultaneously we’re told how unfair the EU is in trying to punish us and screw us down!
The double standards and bias is staggering.
Hopefully the current talks will sort all of this out, but with ministers saying a crash is a real possibility, we should be aware of the consequences.
When we leave the EU will be out competitors in looking for business with the rest of the world. Do you really believe the fiction that they must offer us a good deal because they want to flog cars here,?
There is so much more going on.
Edit. Sorry. Having a bit of “Monday Morning Blues”!
I don’t mean to shout at you Mazzer.
We’ve different views and you argue your point well normally, but I think you’re so far out this time that you’ve taken me by surprise.
As the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the Dover-Calais route are non-UK registered, and as we import more from the eu than we export to it, I’d suggest that putting obstacles in the way of cross-Channel trade would be more harmful to remaining eu members than to us.
Franglais:
If we crash out in a hard Brexit well be in WTO terms won’t we?
Those look like hard, expensive and possibly slow for transporters.
Most countries currently trading with the EU, (those coming in from the outside) have bilateral trading agreements with the EU. These agreements allow vehicles into each others countries.
IF we crash out we will have NO such agreements with either our current EU partners or ANY country with have agreements with through our membership of the EU.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”?
It would have to be a monumentally horrific deal to be worse than a “No deal”.
Could we “just carry on with” the existing rules as if we hadn’t left the EU?
Well pretty pointless leaving now then isn’t it ?
And how many existing traders would let go a chance to get a better deal? If we’re isolated in painful WTO terms we are not in a strong negotiating position.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
As there are already these type of agreements in place why have the EU not offered this to the UK? Perhaps the answer is the wish of the politicians in Brussels to punish the UK for wanting to leave and thereby showing their true agenda. It is quite ironic that whilst they are drawing up plans to make entry to the EU as difficult as possible from the UK on Europe’s southern borders any Tom, ■■■■ or Mohammad can just casually turn up with no papers and gain entry.
The European parliament may look quite different after the next round of European elections with a lot more nationalist MEP’s from Eastern Europe, Brussels has only itself to blame for the rise of nationalist politics across Europe but as usual will just bury it’s head in the sand and continue on the same course
Come on !
"Why haven’t that offered these terms? "
We are in the middle of negotiations aren’t we ?
I daresay these terms are part of those negotiations. Do you really expect any party in talks to give away a right, such as free movement of vehicles, as a gift?
Our gov is talking about how we are going to get a better deal, and how strong our position and negotiators are. How we can get a better deal than the EU can win for us.
Simultaneously we’re told how unfair the EU is in trying to punish us and screw us down!
The double standards and bias is staggering.
Hopefully the current talks will sort all of this out, but with ministers saying a crash is a real possibility, we should be aware of the consequences.
When we leave the EU will be out competitors in looking for business with the rest of the world. Do you really believe the fiction that they must offer us a good deal because they want to flog cars here,?
There is so much more going on.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
Yet the EU expects the UK to lay it’s hand on the table for all to see as you say the double standards are staggering, neither side has gone about this with any dignity and as a result both sides will suffer and the people who will suffer most are the working class of the UK and Europe but politicians of all persuasions have long ago lost interest in them and then looked bewildered at the rise of extremists.
As harry says the deficit on EU trade is massive the last place I loaded apples out of near Limoge had a chart up showing where it’s apples went 40% to the domestic market, 27% to the UK and the rest to seven other countries the largest taking about 10% or the warehouses in Holland exporting to the UK one I used to load out of puts 80 to 100 trailers per day into the UK or get the stats from the port of Dover 50 % of lorries exiting the UK are empty.
Brexit would never have happened had the EU elite admitted that things were not going 100% smoothly and brought in reforms in the last 10 years and the impression reinforced by the migration crisis that the EU is run by and for the benefit of Germany.
Exactly Mazzer. An awful lot of buildings between Rotterdam and the top of the corridor are effectively warehousing for The UK. The physical trade imbalance is evidenced by the amount of empty trailers heading south to the channel and the distinct lack of UK vehicles there or on the other side.
Harry Monk:
As the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the Dover-Calais route are non-UK registered, and as we import more from the eu than we export to it, I’d suggest that putting obstacles in the way of cross-Channel trade would be more harmful to remaining eu members than to us.
It doesn’t matter what the reg plate says though, does it? If it takes longer to go through Dover the rates will increase to cover the extra costs.
So we pay more for imports.
They pay more in haulage for our goods so we need to drop prices to stay competitive or they find other suppliers and we loose customers.
And if we are talking of trucks being stood where do the clients look? Hauliers with lower waiting time expenses.?
For those hauliers with the lowest wages of course!
So more expensive goods for us. Less earnings and lower profits, for export businesses.
Fewer trucks, and any moving will have less well paid drivers!
C’mon Harry. We don’t need economists or politicians to we?
We can see the real world can’t we?
Isn’t that the way it could go?
I truly hope it doesn’t but it don’t look too good at the moment does it?
The main problem that the EU has with either reforms or criticism is that it is and has been an ideological dream form the 50’s and the problem with people who become transfixed on ideology is that they believe their way is right even when all the evidence is showing that maybe they aren’t. Couple that with people getting into positions of power that they should never be in (Claude Juncker being a prime example another being Neil Kinnock failed British politician yet promoted to a high level in the EU) and problems will never be solved.
Franglais:
Are there problems in the EU.
Yes.
YES! Definitely true.
Will Brexit cure those problems?
No, I honestly don’t think so.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
Brexit is only the start, who would’ve thought the internal combustion engine would be dead in 150 years and that people would stop smoking because they were told to?
Harry Monk:
The thing is, it wasn’t an enormous palaver before 1992, just half-an-hour stood on the stairs at Dover, and I’m sure even that wouldn’t be necessary nowadays. I’d be quite happy to go back to the days of T-forms, chuck your paperwork in at Rho Customs at mid-day Tuesday then go on the lash with your buddies for the rest of the day.
The trouble is, Harry that the infrastructure and people aren’t there any more. It will take time to train people, build parking etc.
As for an IT based solution…can you think of any IT project the government has delivered on time and on budget that has actually worked?
(genuine question, not being sarky)
How does the rest of the world get into Europe? On a boat isn’t the answer I’m looking for. Seriously, I’ve no experience of entering Europe from anywhere other than the UK. So, does everyone else suffer these doomsday scenarios that we’re all looking forward to?
IF
If we crash out in a hard Brexit well be in WTO terms won’t we?
Those look like hard, expensive and possibly slow for transporters.
Most countries currently trading with the EU, (those coming in from the outside) have bilateral trading agreements with the EU. These agreements allow vehicles into each others countries.
IF we crash out we will have NO such agreements with either our current EU partners or ANY country with have agreements with through our membership of the EU.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”?
It would have to be a monumentally horrific deal to be worse than a “No deal”.
Could we “just carry on with” the existing rules as if we hadn’t left the EU?
Well pretty pointless leaving now then isn’t it ?
And how many existing traders would let go a chance to get a better deal? If we’re isolated in painful WTO terms we are not in a strong negotiating position.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
As has been said before there are no EU agreements allowing vehicles to cross borders, only to do so without the need for permits, the right to complete international journeys comes from the Geneva Convention, if the EU or any member state tried to stop this they, or we, would be in contravention of the Geneva Convention and that will not happen. OK they could impose permits and so could we, and they and we could ban cabotage, and a good thing too in my book, I have never made anything out of a cabotage load other than to fill in a gap.
Harry Monk:
The thing is, it wasn’t an enormous palaver before 1992, just half-an-hour stood on the stairs at Dover, and I’m sure even that wouldn’t be necessary nowadays. I’d be quite happy to go back to the days of T-forms, chuck your paperwork in at Rho Customs at mid-day Tuesday then go on the lash with your buddies for the rest of the day.
The trouble is, Harry that the infrastructure and people aren’t there any more. It will take time to train people, build parking etc.
As for an IT based solution…can you think of any IT project the government has delivered on time and on budget that has actually worked?
(genuine question, not being sarky)
How does the rest of the world get into Europe? On a boat isn’t the answer I’m looking for. Seriously, I’ve no experience of entering Europe from anywhere other than the UK. So, does everyone else suffer these doomsday scenarios that we’re all looking forward to?
IF
If we crash out in a hard Brexit well be in WTO terms won’t we?
Those look like hard, expensive and possibly slow for transporters.
Most countries currently trading with the EU, (those coming in from the outside) have bilateral trading agreements with the EU. These agreements allow vehicles into each others countries.
IF we crash out we will have NO such agreements with either our current EU partners or ANY country with have agreements with through our membership of the EU.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”?
It would have to be a monumentally horrific deal to be worse than a “No deal”.
Could we “just carry on with” the existing rules as if we hadn’t left the EU?
Well pretty pointless leaving now then isn’t it ?
And how many existing traders would let go a chance to get a better deal? If we’re isolated in painful WTO terms we are not in a strong negotiating position.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
As has been said before there are no EU agreements allowing vehicles to cross borders, only to do so without the need for permits, the right to complete international journeys comes from the Geneva Convention, if the EU or any member state tried to stop this they, or we, would be in contravention of the Geneva Convention and that will not happen. OK they could impose permits and so could we, and they and we could ban cabotage, and a good thing too in my book, I have never made anything out of a cabotage load other than to fill in a gap.
Without looking I think you’re referring to the Vienna agreement on international transport? Which the UK has never signed up to, and we only benefit from it whilst we remain in the EU??
And I refer you to my previous arguments : how are more expenses in shifting goods better for the UK as a whole?
