Working Time Directive

[stevieboy308]

brianchalkyshaw:

stevieboy308:

brianchalkyshaw:

Wheel Nut:
You can be prosecuted if you take too many breaks, stick to the EU legislation, that’s the important one!

WTD is Humbug

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[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] prosecuted for too many breaks Ive heard it all now, so your sitting on a bay for 3 hours keys handed into the gatehouse and your on the bed watching youtube or the other one [emoji57] what you do in the cab is your business, so it goes on a break. In a previous discussion it was argued that this is not considered a break and now if you take to many breaks you can get done [emoji2357] they have you both ways. We dont want you to over work nor do we want to take too many breaks.

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2 drivers set off on identical runs together
They drive 2 hours and stop, 1 has a 15 the other a 45

They drive 2 hours and both stop for 30 mins break whilst being unloaded

They both drive the 4 hours back and finish

Driver 2 will be 30mins ahead of driver 1 either early on or on be back to the yard as he will of had a 45min break where driver 1 will of had 75mins of break… if all things are equal, meaning traffic is same for both drivers and speed limits are the same driver 2 will be back 30mins before driver 1.

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1 driver is legal, the other, the one that had more break isn’t and if stopped would be looking at a £200 fine

[grumpy_dad]

How exactly ?

[stevieboy308]

Grumpy Dad:
How exactly ?

Drive 2 hours
Break 45 = fresh 4.5
Drive 2 hours
Break 30
Drive 4 hours

= Just drove 6 hours without a 45
15 - 1 hour over = £100
1 - 2 over = £200
2+ = £300

If the 1st break was 15 - 44 then he’d have been legal

[rog]

stevieboy308:
Drive 2 hours
Break 45 = fresh 4.5
Drive 2 hours
Break 30
Drive 4 hours

= Just drove 6 hours without a 45
15 - 1 hour over = £100
1 - 2 over = £200
2+ = £300

If the 1st break was 15 - 44 then he’d have been legal

Spot on

Still daft when you take more break and get penalised but thats the rules

[grumpy_dad]

stevieboy308:

Grumpy Dad:
How exactly ?

Drive 2 hours
Break 45 = fresh 4.5
Drive 2 hours
Break 30
Drive 4 hours

= Just drove 6 hours without a 45
15 - 1 hour over = £100
1 - 2 over = £200
2+ = £300

If the 1st break was 15 - 44 then he’d have been legal

Calculated the breaks but didn’t look at the final 4 hour drive

[winseer]

It would have been nice to see the back of the “WTD Infringement” concept upon leaving the EU…

…Alas…

“The Sabbath was made for Man - not Man made for the Sabbath.”
J.Christ, AD30.

It seems daft to me that we can be disciplined, or even fired - for being flexible enough NOT to insist on taking a break by 6 hours into one’s working shift.

As a person who works shifts over 12 hours in length on a regular basis - I find it a complete pain in the arse put there by the bureaucrats that doesn’t contribute one bit towards a driver’s well being, or serve the customer any better neither.

[arcticmonkey]

robroy:
When this industry actually gets some balls, looks after it’s employees, where the 48 hour week (or some sort of sensible compromise between that and the ridiculous 70+) becomes an actual reality with wages adjusted to it, instead of a complete cluster [zb] of cop outs (courtesy of [zb] poa and the like )
Then (and only then) will I take a valuable hour out of my life to actually learn all about the intracies of this ■■■■■■■■ as some of you apparentlly have.
So until then I’ll only make sure I have a 15 min in 6 only to cover my arse.

I won’t hold my breath btw because of the idiots we have, who gladly and willinglly go all out to max out on single time, relatively working a week and a half in a week, and boasting they are on ‘‘good money’’ for it…so it won’t happen.
Cheers.

It’s in my interests to drive upto 4 and half hours before taking a 45 because this can mean not needing another break later on in the day, therefore it shortens my working day and i’m not hourly paid.

My response earlier why it was crazy to drive upto 4 and half hours was i felt that poster was stating he was unable to physically drive for so long but i may have misinterpreted his comment

[robroy]

ArcticMonkey:

robroy:
When this industry actually gets some balls, looks after it’s employees, where the 48 hour week (or some sort of sensible compromise between that and the ridiculous 70+) becomes an actual reality with wages adjusted to it, instead of a complete cluster [zb] of cop outs (courtesy of [zb] poa and the like )
Then (and only then) will I take a valuable hour out of my life to actually learn all about the intracies of this ■■■■■■■■ as some of you apparentlly have.
So until then I’ll only make sure I have a 15 min in 6 only to cover my arse.

I won’t hold my breath btw because of the idiots we have, who gladly and willinglly go all out to max out on single time, relatively working a week and a half in a week, and boasting they are on ‘‘good money’’ for it…so it won’t happen.
Cheers.

It’s in my interests to drive upto 4 and half hours before taking a 45 because this can mean not needing another break later on in the day, therefore it shortens my working day and i’m not hourly paid.

My response earlier why it was crazy to drive upto 4 and half hours was i felt that poster was stating he was unable to physically drive for so long but i may have misinterpreted his comment

Ok mate I get that…but why are you quoting my post?

[arcticmonkey]

robroy:

ArcticMonkey:

robroy:
When this industry actually gets some balls, looks after it’s employees, where the 48 hour week (or some sort of sensible compromise between that and the ridiculous 70+) becomes an actual reality with wages adjusted to it, instead of a complete cluster [zb] of cop outs (courtesy of [zb] poa and the like )
Then (and only then) will I take a valuable hour out of my life to actually learn all about the intracies of this ■■■■■■■■ as some of you apparentlly have.
So until then I’ll only make sure I have a 15 min in 6 only to cover my arse.

I won’t hold my breath btw because of the idiots we have, who gladly and willinglly go all out to max out on single time, relatively working a week and a half in a week, and boasting they are on ‘‘good money’’ for it…so it won’t happen.
Cheers.

It’s in my interests to drive upto 4 and half hours before taking a 45 because this can mean not needing another break later on in the day, therefore it shortens my working day and i’m not hourly paid.

My response earlier why it was crazy to drive upto 4 and half hours was i felt that poster was stating he was unable to physically drive for so long but i may have misinterpreted his comment

Ok mate I get that…but why are you quoting my post?

I thought your last paragraph was in reference to the 4 hours 30 mins driving before a break.
Soz i read it wrong, i had just woken up is my excuse

[muckaway]

Never used to bother with poa but I’m using it on occasions now so I can work the odd Saturday. People say you can’t get poa on multi drop but I knock it over once delivery’s done and it’s being checked, or I’m eating and drinking whatever the customer has given me.

[stevieboy308]

Muckaway:
Never used to bother with poa but I’m using it on occasions now so I can work the odd Saturday. People say you can’t get poa on multi drop but I knock it over once delivery’s done and it’s being checked, or I’m eating and drinking whatever the customer has given me.

Unless you get all recorded breaks deducted, why do you use poa instead of break in these scenarios?

[winseer]

The WTD is a pain for drivers that have a high driving content in their jobs (what a concept!) but I feel was aimed originally at those drivers who do a lot of “other work” and can likely take breaks any time they feel like it, being depot-bound for the greater part of their working shifts.

I understand that driving for Lidl/Aldi - amounts to “more non driving work” than at most other places, which kinda fits in with this EU-Remainer thing that seeks total control over the workforce, making them in trouble for “not taking breaks at the proper time”. FFS stand back and look at this crap - The next thing we’ll see is being “fined” or “disciplined” for refusing to stand down at the weekends, when a lot of us struggling workers NEED the weekends and the overtime to get by!!!

[win-stone]

The bit I don’t get about the WTD, the bit I REALLY don’t get is this…

Assume a 6 am Start…

Drive for 5 hours 45 and take a 15 minute break.

Perfectly legal.

Now drive for another 30 minutes, park up and go home for the night.

Illegal.

I’m effectively on a break for over 17 and a half hours and it’s supposed to be a ‘violation’ ---- but ONLY if I take the card out of the tacho!

Stupid and nonsensical in the extreme.

[stevieboy308]

Win-Stone:
The bit I don’t get about the WTD, the bit I REALLY don’t get is this…

Assume a 6 am Start…

Drive for 5 hours 45 and take a 15 minute break.

Perfectly legal.

Now drive for another 30 minutes, park up and go home for the night.

Illegal.

I’m effectively on a break for over 17 and a half hours and it’s supposed to be a ‘violation’ ---- but ONLY if I take the card out of the tacho!

Stupid and nonsensical in the extreme.

It just flexible,one of the things you see often is drivers criticising the EU regs for not being flexible.

Wtd is if you’re working time is 6 - 9 then you must show 30 mins worth of break in the shift before you can finish
And 45 if over 9. All whilst not working more than 6 hours at any point without a 15.

It’s super flexible and will always work in your favour compared to it being more fixed. But then then you get the anomalies this creates and drivers moan about that too! They can’t win, but at least this way it’s up to you

[muckaway]

stevieboy308:

Muckaway:
Never used to bother with poa but I’m using it on occasions now so I can work the odd Saturday. People say you can’t get poa on multi drop but I knock it over once delivery’s done and it’s being checked, or I’m eating and drinking whatever the customer has given me.

Unless you get all recorded breaks deducted, why do you use poa instead of break in these scenarios?

We get an hour deducted per day, I like to show a difference between a customer faffing about checking what I’ve already ticked as being picked, to my actual breaktime

[winseer]

Unless there’s a digi device fault, WTD “infringements” when I take my first break say, 6hrs 5mins into the shift - are the only ones I’m getting - but I have already been pushed on disciplinaries over these, which is what makes it so bloody annoying!

If a company were that concerned about people taking their full breaks and at proper times - perhaps it would be an idea for ALL companies to actually PAY for the time during those “breaks that we must take” eh?

[stevieboy308]

Winseer:
Unless there’s a digi device fault, WTD “infringements” when I take my first break say, 6hrs 5mins into the shift - are the only ones I’m getting - but I have already been pushed on disciplinaries over these, which is what makes it so bloody annoying!

If a company were that concerned about people taking their full breaks and at proper times - perhaps it would be an idea for ALL companies to actually PAY for the time during those “breaks that we must take” eh?

If you take your 1st break after working 6:05, you will get an infringement, don’t know why you think you wouldn’t…

Pay has ■■■■ all to do with it

[winseer]

stevieboy308:

Winseer:
Unless there’s a digi device fault, WTD “infringements” when I take my first break say, 6hrs 5mins into the shift - are the only ones I’m getting - but I have already been pushed on disciplinaries over these, which is what makes it so bloody annoying!

If a company were that concerned about people taking their full breaks and at proper times - perhaps it would be an idea for ALL companies to actually PAY for the time during those “breaks that we must take” eh?

If you take your 1st break after working 6:05, you will get an infringement, don’t know why you think you wouldn’t…

Pay has [zb] all to do with it

I’m out the door because I cannot run to time without getting an infringement. “Taking breaks at an MSA - not allowed. Taking breaks in a layby - Not Allowed”.

For the “security of the load” - you get to your destination, and take your break once there…

6hr 5 mins… “In the crapper for 3 WTD infringements in a row”…

Next time, busts a nut getting there on time - gets barrier lowered on head, as if it were a prank (stayed up for a full minute on approach, before coming down just as I am already going under it…)

The tree got shaken, and I duly fell out of it. Then they wonder why the firm is going down the toilet all of a sudden…?
Chasing off clean licenced drivers for “DO you have any idea how unpopular you are here among the other drivers?” whilst falling over backwards to employ Muslims depot staff who wander off when you turn up to unload - “must unload in due time, or in the crap again” of course.

Strangely, there’s a lack of EASTERN EUROPEAN drivers there - and that may end up being their politically-correct undoing in due course…
Firm didn’t even have the balls or honesty to sack me, despite me asking to be sacked - for closure’s sake. (I’ll blame the Agency for that bit of chickening-out, having been presumably bullied by the firm to act badly there…)
(Probably afraid I’d successfully litigate against them - again)
Still, - it was good whilst it lasted.

Pay has a LOT to do with it then - as one is expected to bend over backwards, and put up with all kinds of EU-inflicted Crap - to keep one’s head down FOR that better rate of pay…
Is it worth it?

…Depends on how well the individual can deal with the lies, stress, and political positioning/backstabbing all the time.

At least I finally got to confirm that 2010 was the year I made a CORRECT decision, rather than a disastrous one - choosing to go for agency work then, as I did… I’ve had my doubts these past years since, at times…

[markymodem]

Slightly off topic but still WTD related, a shift of exactly 9 hours needs a 30 min break or a 45?

[tachograph]

markymodem:
Slightly off topic but still WTD related, a shift of exactly 9 hours needs a 30 min break or a 45?

If you do exactly 9 hours working time you need a 30 minute break at some point, but not at the immediate start or end of shift.

A shift of exactly 9 hours would require you to have 30 minutes of break unless you booked so much POA that the actual working time never exceeded 6 hours in which case you would not legally need a break.

This is of course assuming you never reached 4.5 hours driving time.