I concur with Winseer , on the subject of recording of death records , there is something suspicious , I have doubts if the virus originated from the live animal market in Wuhan , and possibly it’s man made .
Is there a link to the poisoning attack in Salisbury with Novichok ?It took months for the public to see CCTV footage of the two alleged men , seen walking near the targets house .
My main beef with this entire Coronavirus crisis - isn’t regarding the Coronavirus Itself truth, fiction, or exaggeration.
It is that far more people will end up seeing their lives go down the pan because of the economic damage.
This isn’t all about me don’t forget… If it were, then I would be more understanding why no one seems to give a ■■■■ that the economy seems to have deliberately been thrown under the bus, when better solutions were available, more aligned to the government we’ve just elected with a majority at that.
Now we seem to be stuck in a situation (thanks to the Unions) where “getting us back to work” as a country - looks to be an even more distant prospect than “getting Brexit done”. 
We need to learn “How to take calculated risks” again as a nation. Like we did in WWII…
If, on the other hand - we keep shrinking back from even the slightest perceived risk - then we will be waiting until doomsday before those in authority “consider it safe to go back to work, mustn’t gamble, we’d get taken to court if we did.”
shrinking away from risk - will augment the economic damage, simply because there are a lot of people real-keen to get back to work - but won’t have the third party DEMAND in their line of work to get their old jobs back, - because some muppet Union has decided that any risk is not worth taking". Easy and nice to say when you live in a mansion/are on paid leave (of any kind)/have savings to fall back on…
How do people commute to get to work in London if Sediq Khan says “It’s too risky to order my unionized workers to return to work”. I’m gutted that Boris has just handed over a ten-figure sum to Khan - without a fight!
Has Boris lost his Mojo whilst he was im Krankenhaus??
toby1234abc:
I have doubts if the virus originated from the live animal market in Wuhan , and possibly it’s man made .
Is there a link to the poisoning attack in Salisbury with Novichok ?It took months for the public to see CCTV footage of the two alleged men , seen walking near the targets house .
It is man made.
It did come from a ( PLA run bioweapons ) lab.
The lab is in Wuhan.
Wuhan isn’t in Wiltshire.
I gave Russia ( as in the state ) the benefit of the doubt over the Novichock incident and the Polonium stunt before it but they’ve shown that they really are still good friends of the ChiComs.So all bets are off in that regard.
I thought discretion was the better part of valour in those cases.
But now we need to get back to the Cold War proper with these two troublemakers with a vengeance and extreme prejudice.This isn’t the time for appeasement.
Unfortunately the military and Bozo and even Trump don’t seem to be up for an argument with the Commies.It looks more like surrender from here.
Winseer:
My main beef with this entire Coronavirus crisis - isn’t regarding the Coronavirus Itself truth, fiction, or exaggeration.It is that far more people will end up seeing their lives go down the pan because of the economic damage.
We need to learn “How to take calculated risks” again as a nation. Like we did in WWII…
Has Boris lost his Mojo whilst he was im Krankenhaus??
IF it’s not a fake virus then the PRE LOCKDOWN RATE of increase in cases v recoveries would have proven unsustainable.
IF it’s real not fake there was/is an equally real problem with the recovery rates from it v new case rates.
Basically meaning a scenario of those either who’ve caught it or those who are yet to catch it and a significant proportion of those who have caught it have either died from it or have yet to die from it.All at a frighteningly increasing rate.While as it stands the figures are just showing that the lock down is putting a the brake on that.Those figures aren’t actually showing that it’s ‘over’ or going to be over.
As for WW2 there were no unknowns related to assymetric bio WMD warfare in that.It was a calculated risk because bombs and bullets etc were a known risk.It went along the lines of if a bomb, V1, V2 or a strafing attack had your name on it that was the chance everyone took.
A weaponised virus doesn’t really work like that.Just like most other WMD’s.
It’s either a civil defence response, made to look like a natural virus response, as part of the resulting stealth appeasement and surrender agenda pretending a natural virus outbreak and failing miserably because people are asking inconvenient questions like when will it all be over and it doesn’t look too bad.
Oh wait 81 deaths between March 7 - 17 compared to 4,375 between May 1 - May 10 says it’s still out there and capable of real damage.
Or it’s a fake virus hiding some other even worse agenda.
But WW3 was never going to look anything like WW2 whether mutually assured destruction, or the aftermath of a bio attack and resulting surrender, IF that’s what we’re seeing.Bearing in mind the government is totally in control of the narrative either way.
Also bearing in mind the seeming refusal to want to provide any meaningful recovery figures if any and Boris looks anything but recovered, depending on what actually happened to him, confirming that.
I suspect that “no one has it” until they happen to perish from it.
If you get better, then you, as a statistic - might be put down on record as “having recovered from bronchitus/normal flu/a chesty cough” or some other non-covid ailment.
We have figures for “recovered”, but we don’t seem to have many names in that large group. Just the celebrities, probably argued as “being because they are public figures already, not subject to privacy”.
When someone is diagnozed though - Who else up their street is aware that they need to avoid the patient who lives at number 22?
The first everyone else hears about it - is after they’ve already died, with the death at a hospital, but the statistic providing the optic of them having “died at home”…
Doesn’t this lack of information sharing put neighbors at risk■■? 
A good example of this is my local area (Medway) which a couple of weeks ago was the “blackspot of Kent for Coronavirus”…
Only this week, the same article has been re-posted on KentOnline saying that it is now ASHFORD that is the “Blackspot of Kent”…
I’ve yet to hear of anyone in my neighborhood even being diagnozed, as of yet - let alone dying from it…
Driving around the nearby hospital neighborhood - it’s really quiet on the roads, compared to complete pandemonium during normal times, people coming and going from Medway Maritime Hospital as they used to do, but now apparently don’t even turn up to occupy one of the many spare beds…
Don’t we see also medical staff apparently with so much time on their hands - that they do dance routines in hospital corridors??
I say it again:
It isn’t anywhere near as “busy” on the ground as we’re being led to believe.
Winseer:
We have figures for “recovered”.
I say it again:
It isn’t anywhere near as “busy” on the ground as we’re being led to believe.
Carryfast:
Winseer:
We have figures for “recovered”.
I say it again:
It isn’t anywhere near as “busy” on the ground as we’re being led to believe.
You can’t even extrapolate the “recovered” figure there - can you?
We don’t know which of our neighbors has got it yet, let alone “recovered”…
The map showing clusters of deaths about constituency wards - admitted on the same page that the data was “shunted over from neighboring estates” in places, making the validity of such data completely smudged, and untrustworthy for data processing purposes…
I have not even heard of a cluster in any of my adjoining neighborhoods, nor seen any sign of a police/ambulance cordon because “everyone at such-and-such address has gone down with it”…
We just don’t KNOW who among mere mortals - has got Covid-19 and where they are right now, which is surely needed urgently as information to their immediate neighbors - so they can give 22s hit street a wide berth and all…
What good is such a liberal attitude towards the spread of a disease FFS?
“Can’t have those diagnosed - being made into pariahs - can we?”
Erm… The first thing we’d surely be thinking - is putting some distance between newly-diagnozed random stranger and my entire family - right?
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Winseer:
We have figures for “recovered”.
I say it again:
It isn’t anywhere near as “busy” on the ground as we’re being led to believe.
You can’t even extrapolate the “recovered” figure there - can you?
They’ve given the figures we know for cases and deaths so where are the figures for ‘recovered’.You said we have them.So where are they.
Boris doesn’t look well and there are credible rumours out there that people who have been released and cleared are later getting Sepsis like symptoms such as blood clots appearing from nowhere.From experience that type of zb can really mess up your day and all tying in with the thing’s propensity to cause havoc with the immune system which is what kicks off those types of reactions like cytokine storms.Because its human transmission ability is an artificial gain of function of a bat specific virus.Which God in his wisdom made sure was never going to transmit to humans, it’s not a natural mutation.
So as I said cases, new cases, some deaths and even possibly cases YET to die, seems to be the only game in town.As would be expected of a bioweapon.
Or it’s a fake virus with some other sinister agenda behind it which is even worse.But we know that agenda originated from the CCP in either case.
There is much i agree with in Winseer’s OP, especially the long term economic effects, which won’t just affect those who’s jobs or customers vanish or those lucky enough to still have a job find their pay cut unilaterally, or by the thousands of small/medium business owners who find their often life’s work disappearing around the U bend.
Suits big business which goes without saying.
Even those at the public teat could find the gland they are attached to runs dry, without a buoyant economy the NHS (blessed be its name) will find the bottomless well of funding running dry too.
Every one of us will be paying for the ruinous overreaction to this pandemic for years to come, there is no magic money tree, the brunt of the costs will be borne by those still fortunate enough to have decent jobs, ‘‘we’re all in this together’’ always ends up with the same people footing the bill, it was always thus.
Those living in hyped fear, understandable given the propaganda from the media and the bungling of the govt (not forgetting the lame Opposition, a group unworthy to sit in the House), will be just as hysterical when the bills for staying at home become apparent in the next few budgets, that magic money tree was always an illusion folks.
Whats more worrying is the likelihood of some dodgy vaccine, barely tested containing what else? another experiment in eugenics from the modern equivalents of Dr Mengele?
For putting things in context historically i offer this new interview of David Stakey by Peter Whittle of the New Culture Forum youtube.com/watch?v=8S8Js-tEmlg
As always Peter Hitchens’ article of today is well worth the read hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
Juddian:
Whats more worrying is the likelihood of some dodgy vaccine, barely tested containing what else? another experiment in eugenics from the modern equivalents of Dr Mengele?For putting things in context historically i offer this new interview of David Stakey by Peter Whittle of the New Culture Forum youtube.com/watch?v=8S8Js-tEmlg
As always Peter Hitchens’ article of today is well worth the read hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
‘IF’ it’s the fake virus pretext for bioweapon vaccine holocaust scenario it probably won’t be a matter of choice.In addition to the the dilemma of the Auschwitz ‘showers’ scenario in that we won’t know for sure and certainly not sure enough for anyone to bother with all the aggro of making a pointless token resistance.
Possibly to the point where it will be our own military unknowingly enforcing a CCP holocaust on their own.With their leadership having sold out to CCP to save their own hides.
Just hope it’s the real bioweapon hidden civil defence response and there can/will be no vaccine against a bio weapon on the basis that the only ‘vaccine’ for a bioweapon has to be a bioweapon itself.While assuming that scenario economics really aren’t the priority.It’s just playing for time as we’re doing, in the hope that we can put a brake on its ability to transmit among the population at the rate it was doing before the lockdown, being the only game in town.
If I’m wrong then great the pubs will soon be open and everything will be back to normal.
I have a friend with a masters in biology, worked in the profession for over 30 years and heads up a national committee in her specialism (not epidemiology or virology for clarity). So she is smart and understands way over what I do.
I sent this to her and asked what does she think
spiked-online.com/2020/05/1 … ssion=true
And her opinion is that he is probably right.
albion:
I have a friend with a masters in biology, worked in the profession for over 30 years and heads up a national committee in her specialism (not epidemiology or virology for clarity). So she is smart and understands way over what I do.I sent this to her and asked what does she think
spiked-online.com/2020/05/1 … ssion=true
And her opinion is that he is probably right.
It looks like the tipping point has been reached - across the new majority of the population now.
The Coronavirus HAS been over-blown, and the consequences of Economic Damage - vastly under-estimated…
"
Wittkowski: Firstly, we have the direct consequences: suicides, domestic violence and other social consequences leading to death. And then we have people who are too scared to go to the hospitals for other problems like strokes or heart attacks. So people stay away from hospitals because of the Covid fear. And then they die. "
…I could add to the above "Worries about debt repayments, worries about being evicted, worries about being conned by the very firm that you used to work for (contractual abuse) Then there’s also working whilst ill, because you don’t want to be seen with so much as a sniffle, in case you get sent home with no pay, or maybe you’re a workaholic who’s lost being stuck in some dreary bedsit somewhere, compared to working all hours before the lockdown… The sense of “social unfairness” increases too, when we see wealthy people getting bailed out before even those who don’t know how to keep the lights on get paid or fed. The snarl-up of the numerous “I’m alright Jack” videos put out there as “VIrtue Signalling” by those public figures in lockdown that have mansions to live in, pay to meet the mortgage with, and no restrictions on going out with a camera about their work - they just can’t be bothered to effectively “work for free” now that staying at home for them pays the same as being out there, choosing to work or having to work…
…Meanwhile, on the radio - they’ll brand that entire paragraph above as “Protect your mental health”, without further small detail made to it.
It strikes me that what this country REALLY needs to do right now - is re-aquire the ability to take calculated risks once more.
Ask our grandparents if they’d chance a trip down to church or the rose & crown during the blitz…
They’d probably say “Yes, I won’t let the Hun stop my Fun!” - whilst politely refusing the “third light” you absently just offered to them, throwing salt over their shoulder, throwing a black drape over that cracked mirror…
Traffic is already back to normal. It is just those unionized scaredy cats that want a 100% certainty about returning to work, which will not happen - not ever. There ARE no certainties in life, not even “Death and Taxes”… Even a nuclear holocaust won’t manage to kill everyone, and not many people are going to be left to pay any raised taxes before long, neither.
albion:
I have a friend with a masters in biology, worked in the profession for over 30 years and heads up a national committee in her specialism (not epidemiology or virology for clarity). So she is smart and understands way over what I do.I sent this to her and asked what does she think
spiked-online.com/2020/05/1 … ssion=true
And her opinion is that he is probably right.
The pre lock down exponential rate of transmission, resulting new cases and deaths says no and that the government obviously knows something that they don’t.
‘OR’ those figures were/are a fabrication and it’s all fake.
In which case did you also put the questions of bioweapon or fake virus power grab to her and how does she explain the ‘flattening’ of ‘the curve’ after the lockdown v before, assuming that all the figures are kosher ?.
While unconditional trust in the CCP narrative is obviously just going to be a case of garbage in garbage out in that regard.
While if the figures aren’t kosher that means a totally different agenda in which case be afraid be very afraid.Far worse than WW3. 
albion:
I have a friend with a masters in biology, worked in the profession for over 30 years and heads up a national committee in her specialism (not epidemiology or virology for clarity). So she is smart and understands way over what I do.I sent this to her and asked what does she think
spiked-online.com/2020/05/1 … ssion=true
And her opinion is that he is probably right.
Do you think there are areas of Britain with a risk-tolerance sigificantly higher or lower than other areas?
…It is all very well for someone like me to suggest “Liverpool” as a place of “low risk tolerance”, or even “London” - but what of the Northern Powerhouse cities? 
Great contribution you’ve made here, btw. 
Juddian:
There is much i agree with in Winseer’s OP, especially the long term economic effects, which won’t just affect those who’s jobs or customers vanish or those lucky enough to still have a job find their pay cut unilaterally, or by the thousands of small/medium business owners who find their often life’s work disappearing around the U bend.
Suits big business which goes without saying.
Even those at the public teat could find the gland they are attached to runs dry, without a buoyant economy the NHS (blessed be its name) will find the bottomless well of funding running dry too.Every one of us will be paying for the ruinous overreaction to this pandemic for years to come, there is no magic money tree, the brunt of the costs will be borne by those still fortunate enough to have decent jobs, ‘‘we’re all in this together’’ always ends up with the same people footing the bill, it was always thus.
Those living in hyped fear, understandable given the propaganda from the media and the bungling of the govt (not forgetting the lame Opposition, a group unworthy to sit in the House), will be just as hysterical when the bills for staying at home become apparent in the next few budgets, that magic money tree was always an illusion folks.
Whats more worrying is the likelihood of some dodgy vaccine, barely tested containing what else? another experiment in eugenics from the modern equivalents of Dr Mengele?
For putting things in context historically i offer this new interview of David Stakey by Peter Whittle of the New Culture Forum youtube.com/watch?v=8S8Js-tEmlg
As always Peter Hitchens’ article of today is well worth the read hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
I don’t think the Tories are going to do this so-called “Predicatble thing” of raising income tax & VAT & National Insurance… There are simply going to be far too many people falling out of tax outright by the time this is over… A more radical solution is needed: The step that Hammond would not envisage: "Take away the ability to offset expenses against tax - for EVERYONE including the Self-Employed, and self-made Businessperson, used to buying half their kit on a “claim back the tax” basis… This lack of knock-on custom for the sorts of goodies people like to buy on expenses - will accelerate the deflationary collapse even MORE of course.
Boris is already talking about a massive infrastucture plan - BUT he’ll have to scrap HS2, Heathrow Expansion, 5G upgrade, and even any hope of “getting a Brexit Deal” - simply because there’s far too much money employing afresh far too few people from ANY of those projects now being stalled, which we expect to happen as naturally as the sun rises each day, of course…
Maybe the plan is to run up a huge low interest debt with the Chinese, get the stuff built on the money, and then because what that money has been spent on "cannot be re-possesed, because it is over HERE - default the bloody national debt outright, living within our means from the very moment we have a persistant positive balance of payments figure… From then on - we’ll have cash at the end of the month to spend, and if we ever dipped into the red again - we’d not find any country in the world willing to lend to us for less than the 1% we can borrow for right now… It is either THAT, or the Banks throw in the towel, and raise rates to eye-watering levels - to keep their yellow peril masters happy…
It seems the UK Government are so reliant on advice from scientists so if it all goes wrong they can just blame the scientists for their mistakes .
It’s like a scene from Fawlty Towers where Basil berates Manuel , and Manuel says " Don’t blame me , I am from Barcelona, Que ? "
The facts are New Zealand shut their border , and so did other countries , but the UK allowed 20 million air passengers to enter the UK with and no testing but now the Government have changed their minds and want a 14 day isolation period which is impossible to enforce even with a £5000 fine scare tactics ,when you arrive in the UK.
The care home crisis is an insult to our intelligence with constant lies from the Government bamboozling the dumb UK public with false and made up figures to fool us .Agency workers are spreading the disease in care homes and hospitals are told to get rid of the elderly and take them to care homes without testing .
If you are caught driving 160 mph in your Porsche, just tell the police , I blame the science as the engine produced the power , use science as a get out of jail card , that’s what your Government is doing using James Bond villains to scare you posing as advisors .
Well, according to these “Scientific Experts” - we should all be buying one of these…
I don’t think any second mortgage I can take out - would cover enough units for me to provide for my entire family however, so I think I’ll pass…
How much?
I was wondering what my outgoing boss was getting upto whilst out on furlough…
The guy modelling this device - is the splitting image of him! 