In 1971 Mol bought the divison special chassis from Willème.
Was it manufactured in the UK? Strangely, Willème fitted the AEC engines since c. 1960, but the Willème 518 T6 and T6c (turbocharged) remained available until the end in 1971.
PRP, alongside the heavy hauliers, kept some standard tractors powerd by GM V6 or V8 2-strokers like these. Difficult to decide when Willème died altogether…
Froggy55:
Was it manufactured in the UK?
I was, of course, referring only to the grille!
Fergie47:
Grill looks familiar…
Evening all,
Fergie, Froggy, now that’s are rare one…only about 30 ever produced as a complete lorry!
The anticipated success of the tie with Unic signed in 1961 had promised so much for Willeme. But the spectacular failure in service of the Unic ZU 6 RB1 6 cylinder 9.8 litre engine UW 610 TB tractor, and its Nez de Requin LD610 TT brother had tarnished Willeme`s reputation considerably. The tie with Unic offered so much, greater support in the market place, and also in engineering support, a range of " modern" 6 cylinder engines, and synchromesh gearboxes, axles, and the opportunity for greater support in the field through the much larger Unic dealer network. But it was beset with jealousey, acrimony, and suspicion…and it collapsed.
Things were becoming bad for Willeme, but in June 1962 Pierre Willeme, (Louis son), signed an agreement with AEC, and the British Motor Corporation, (BMC) for the supply of engines , (690,& eventually 760), to be offered alongside the existing, but aged ex Deutz designed 516 serie 6 cylinders in the heavy range, and the importation and assembly from parts of certain of the BMC commercial vehicle range. Initially the 5.6, and 7.2 ton "Angle Cab with its BMC 3.7 litre 4 cylinder engine, supported by the 5.1 litre 6 cylinder FF 100 in 9 &11 ton versions. This agreement was fraught with operational difficulties, not the least of which being the non metric dimensions of components, and the need to adapt the basic UK models to suit the French market needs in terms of fiscal operational legislation.
However the agreement allowed Willeme access into a much broader market than their traditional heavy premium models. The heavier ranges, sold well in both cab over and bonneted form with AEC power, and ZF transmissions. In 1963 it was proposed that complete AEC chassis could be sold into certain market sectors, and that is the vehicle that Fergie`s picture shows. The Willeme K301, to all intents and purpose an AEC Mercury, fitted with an adapted Cottard Horizon cab. Specifically aimed at operators in the transportation of fuels, and bulk goods. Design weight 16 tonnes, AEC 470 engine 7.685 cc, 148 hp @2200 rpm. 6 speed overdrive gear box, 1100x 20 tyre equipment, and available in wheelbases of , 3.52m, 4.34m, 5.13m, and 5.84m. Sadly the lorry did not sell well, and only around 30 examples were built, mainly as tankers, or integral box vans.
The whole Willeme/AEC era would in hindsight appear to be a chapter of lost opportunity for both company`s. Of course Leyland were dealing with the failing Hotchkiss operation in the wings, as well as appearing to dismantle any successful export operation that AEC had enjoyed all over the world. An era that I feel will never ever be analytically examined, for so many vital documents would appear to be missing from the UK company background, yet the truth would be nice to know, would it not? Incompetence, or malice, who knows?
PRP, (Perez et Raimond), did produce a number of LD 4x2 chassis with Detroit power, Wauthier of Carvin ran one on tanker work…now there is an operator with an eclectic fleet…Peterbilt, Kenworth, GM Astros,.......you never knew what to find in Daniel, and Brunos yard!..and of course Saviem looked at the TGs very closely…but that was prior to the President of Frances wish that the Regie, (who owned Saviem), step in to save dear old Berliet from financial ruin…and Italian, (or Swedish), ownership…
Funny old corporate world Lorry building…whichever country, or continent you are in/on!
I shall enjoy a small Bollinger, and reflect on what might have been…Willeme/AEC/Leyland…interesting to speculate!
Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
Fergie47:
Grill looks familiar…Evening all,
Fergie, Froggy, now that’s are rare one…only about 30 ever produced as a complete lorry!
The anticipated success of the tie with Unic signed in 1961 had promised so much for Willeme. But the spectacular failure in service of the Unic ZU 6 RB1 6 cylinder 9.8 litre engine UW 610 TB tractor, and its Nez de Requin LD610 TT brother had tarnished Willeme`s reputation considerably. The tie with Unic offered so much, greater support in the market place, and also in engineering support, a range of " modern" 6 cylinder engines, and synchromesh gearboxes, axles, and the opportunity for greater support in the field through the much larger Unic dealer network. But it was beset with jealousey, acrimony, and suspicion…and it collapsed.
Things were becoming bad for Willeme, but in June 1962 Pierre Willeme, (Louis son), signed an agreement with AEC, and the British Motor Corporation, (BMC) for the supply of engines , (690,& eventually 760), to be offered alongside the existing, but aged ex Deutz designed 516 serie 6 cylinders in the heavy range, and the importation and assembly from parts of certain of the BMC commercial vehicle range. Initially the 5.6, and 7.2 ton "Angle Cab with its BMC 3.7 litre 4 cylinder engine, supported by the 5.1 litre 6 cylinder FF 100 in 9 &11 ton versions. This agreement was fraught with operational difficulties, not the least of which being the non metric dimensions of components, and the need to adapt the basic UK models to suit the French market needs in terms of fiscal operational legislation.
However the agreement allowed Willeme access into a much broader market than their traditional heavy premium models. The heavier ranges, sold well in both cab over and bonneted form with AEC power, and ZF transmissions. In 1963 it was proposed that complete AEC chassis could be sold into certain market sectors, and that is the vehicle that Fergie`s picture shows. The Willeme K301, to all intents and purpose an AEC Mercury, fitted with an adapted Cottard Horizon cab. Specifically aimed at operators in the transportation of fuels, and bulk goods. Design weight 16 tonnes, AEC 470 engine 7.685 cc, 148 hp @2200 rpm. 6 speed overdrive gear box, 1100x 20 tyre equipment, and available in wheelbases of , 3.52m, 4.34m, 5.13m, and 5.84m. Sadly the lorry did not sell well, and only around 30 examples were built, mainly as tankers, or integral box vans.
The whole Willeme/AEC era would in hindsight appear to be a chapter of lost opportunity for both company`s. Of course Leyland were dealing with the failing Hotchkiss operation in the wings, as well as appearing to dismantle any successful export operation that AEC had enjoyed all over the world. An era that I feel will never ever be analytically examined, for so many vital documents would appear to be missing from the UK company background, yet the truth would be nice to know, would it not? Incompetence, or malice, who knows? Certainly the Leyland Hotchkiss deal of 1963 served to confuse the issue in the market place. Again the product marketed was not really well suited to the French market. The .600 powered tractors gained a good reputation for reliability, less so for the driver comfort of the LAD type cab. The Chieftan suffered the same handicap as the Willeme K301/Mercury, too light a specification, and only a few were sold, but probably more than Hotchkiss in GB, the other part of the reciprocal deal! One tractor was produced with a Pelpel cab, but nothing really came of it, Leyland Group would have to wait a decade before its products sold in France, an opportunity lost.
PRP, (Perez et Raimond), did produce a number of LD 4x2 chassis with Detroit power, Wauthier of Carvin ran one on tanker work…now there is an operator with an eclectic fleet…Peterbilt, Kenworth, GM Astro
s,.......you never knew what to find in Daniel, and Brunos yard!..and of course Saviem looked at the TGs very closely…but that was prior to the President of France Valery Giscard- dEstaing, and his Finance Minister George Pompidous wish that the Regie Renault, (who owned Saviem), step in to save dear old Berliet from financial ruin…and Italian, (or Swedish), ownership…Funny old corporate world Lorry building…whichever country, or continent you are in/on!
I shall enjoy a small Bollinger, and reflect on what might have been…Willeme/AEC/Leyland…interesting to speculate!
Cheerio for now.
Ah the joys of old age, tried to edit my post, and put in a bit about Leyland/Hotchkiss…made a complete “■■■■” of it…back to the Earl Grey…lovely bit of frost this morning…apologies!
Another model on a 1972 PRP leaflet. It’s said its powered by a GM straight-6, and “already very appreciated by the roadworks contractors”. I’m not sure more that one prototype was ever built… The bonnet was made of polyester and the headlamps come from the Citroën Ami 6 (if I’m right).
An other example with a Rotrou cab , it was used in the iron ore transport in East of France. Its brother had an accident in a factory.
You could find these pictures in the book ‘Bahuts de Lorraine’ edition 2 by CANY Editions.
michel:
An other example with a Rotrou cab , it was used in the iron ore transport in East of France. Its brother had an accident in a factory.
You could find these pictures in the book ‘Bahuts de Lorraine’ edition 2 by CANY Editions.
An accident? It’s certainy the least one can say about that poor truck, which didn’t even live long enough to get its definitive registration! Any idea how many were produced?
I notice the one with the crushed cab had not been registered ,its on a W number plate.
Looks as if it had been struck by a meteorite! A closer look makes the two pre-1971 models, fitted with AEC engines. The one on the left was registered in January 1970.
plaque.free.fr/f_1970s.html
The “W” numberplate indicates a temporary registration for use only by a professional vehicle dealer or garage. They’re mainly used on vehicles under repair for testing on road or eventually if they’re lent.
My Willeme-AEC K 302 ,still in with our collection but the picture dates from 1991 when I bought it in the Toulouse road district, poor cab nevertheless with salt distribution.
The cabs on these two seem similar but, on closer inspection, seem different in every way. Did Rotrou and Cottard share some parts, but not others?
[zb]
anorak:
The cabs on these two seem similar but, on closer inspection, seem different in every way. Did Rotrou and Cottard share some parts, but not others?
0
Evening all,
Anorak, Ive just come out of the office shower, looking forward to my tea, (Smoked Haddock, with a free range egg on top, in a light Caerphilly and Yoghurt sauce, with roast Desiree, & Parsnip), switch this B thing on, (to see if I have a signal tonight)…and there you are with a true “Miss Marple” question…
Its an intriguing story, and one that if I go into every ■■■■ and cranny, will make me late for my tea, and early for a fearfull telling off!..so I will try to be brief…
The Pons Plan post WW2 had been good to Louis Willeme, the Nanterre operation had been designated to produce “heavy” commercials, which they had done well. The conventional tractors and rigids had acquired the Willeme designed, and Cottard, Bourg en Bresse built “Horizon” forward control cab, over the now aged 13 litre 518serie 6 cylinder Deutz designed engines. They sold well to small and medium sized operators, and were rightly regarded as a premium lorry.
For the Traveaux Publics , (Civil Engineering), market Willeme produced some really tough machines fitted with the Géneve built Sahara cab. Conceived for Oilfield use its angular straight panels gave a tough no nonsense appearance, and creature comforts were few! For heavy haulage the Nez de Requin, (Shark Nose ), cab was available, but in both cases the machines were no lightweights.
Early 1960s Berliet had gained market share with its 9.5 litre 180hp GLM 10. Others were now in the market place , Henschel, Mercedes Benz, Mack, (selling strongly), Saviem with its re-badged pure MAN, and even Unic, and the Willeme offering was becoming dated in appearance. An urgent update was needed…
It came in the shape of the Cottard produced, but jointly designed cab which is shown on Anoraks first picture. Based around the forward control Horizon cab, this semi forward control cab was some 425 mm shorter than the Shark Nose, but of more importance it was considerably lighter with its reinforced Fibreglass construction…it was also very imposing to look at, and very comfortable, and quiet for its time, then following Pierre Willeme`s agreement with AEC, even more weight was saved by the introduction of the AEC 690, with its 200 hp, and saving 350 kgs over the 13 litre 518 T6 Willeme engine, (a day cab tractor @35 tonnes gtw, weighing in @5.8 tonnes ready to go). The AEC would drive through a 12 speed ZF box, and was a good seller in all its forms.
But changes happen suddenly. Despite working closely together, Willeme/Cottard did not always see, “eye to eye”. Then M Cottard passed on, and in effect the business ceased. What to do? Willeme turned to Verneuil-sur Avre, (Eure), based bodybuilder Rotrou, who in a very brief time produced a similar looking cab, (as michels, picture), with one or two detail changes. The main being that for engine access the whole bonnet hinged forward, unlike the Cottard “Butterfly” bonnet, and Froggy is correct those are Ami Headlights, (and were prone to bad earthing)! But both cabs were totally different…as was the third twist to this tale…
Rotrou, suffering financial crisis could not fulfil its orders from Willeme. What should Willeme do? But of course, they turned to Noyal sur Villaine, Rennes based Georges Pelpel, who created in very short time both semi forward control, and forward control cab designs. The semi forward control design remained faithful to the original Cottard lines, but was even lighter, but quieter, and more comfortable, despite its more angular lines…and under that short bonnet now sat an AEC 760 230 HP engine, with a 6 speed AEC gearbox, and AEC front axle. The forward control now fully tilted, and was adapted into crew and sleeper form for the big TG range.
The overlap of cab manufacturers can be quite confusing, (as can be the use of Willeme, or AEC power units). If I may generalise, to try to simplify matters…(and this general listing is not perfect because there was much overlap in production)…
Cab Engine
1962/1965 Cottard Willeme 518T6 13 litre @190/255( turbo) AEC 690 200 hp
1966/1968 Cottard/Pelpel/Rotrou AEC 690 @ 200 hp AEC 760 @ 230 hp
1969 Pelpel. AEC 760 @ 230 HP
1970 Pelpel Volvo TD100B @ 270 hp (Shown at The Paris Salon, but never entered production…a story in itself)!
1971 Pelpel Detroit two stroke In line and V configuration, produced by Paris based Perez et Raimond the GM Detroit Diesel Allinson importer for France.
Probably raised more questions than giving answers, fascinating company Willeme, and truly beautiful lorries…and a lost opportunity for the Leyland AEC grouping!
Im away for my tea…
Cheerio f or now.
Now, to add a little confusion, here’s a Pelpel-cabbed Willème, fitted with a 280 bhp Willème 518 T6c turbocharged engine. Registered in 1974, but certainly dating between 1965 and 1970. Blue one is a Cottard cab.
The half-tilted cab. Second one is a “Shark-nose” LD 610 T.
The turbocharged Willème engine.
A Cottard tilt cab:
robert1952:
Spanish-operated Willeme. Robert0
Apologies Robert, she was ordered from Louis Willeme by the Portugese National Electricity Company. She was delivered by sea from Le Havre to Lisbon , but even getting this magnificent beast from Nanterre to Le Havre was a tremendous undertaking, this was 1949, and France`s infrastructure was in a war ravaged state.
Ive copies of the original build sheets for this lorry, and Neuilly sur Seine based SCARI trailer. But briefly the design brief was to transport Transformers of 120 or 132 tonnes net weight, design gross combination weight was 205 tonnes, and the outfit was 26 metres long, with a load bed of 8300mm. She was powered by the 18 litre 517 P 8 straight 8 Willeme, Deutz licence engine, with a Willeme 4 speed gearbox driving via a 3 speed auxillary. Road speed at 205 tonnes was calculated at 12.7 kph. Tyre equipment was 1200x24 G24 Michelin, for both the tractor, and four axle trailer, (12 wheels, the rear tri axle bogie being manually steered by a steersman on the left hand side behind the rearmost axle. Pneumatic steering on the unit, with both engine, and gearbox mounted compressors.
She was the first of Willeme`s 8 wheel heavy load carriers, culminating in the TG range. At the time the only other easily available option was the Pacific M26, ex US Forces. This lorry really created the heavy haulage and quality image for Louis Willeme.
Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
robert1952:
Spanish-operated Willeme. Robert0
Apologies Robert, she was ordered from Louis Willeme by the Portugese National Electricity Company. She was delivered by sea from Le Havre to Lisbon , but even getting this magnificent beast from Nanterre to Le Havre was a tremendous undertaking, this was 1949, and France`s infrastructure was in a war ravaged state.
Ive copies of the original build sheets for this lorry, and Neuilly sur Seine based SCARI trailer. But briefly the design brief was to transport Transformers of 120 or 132 tonnes net weight, design gross combination weight was 205 tonnes, and the outfit was 26 metres long, with a load bed of 8300mm. She was powered by the 18 litre 517 P 8 straight 8 Willeme, Deutz licence engine, with a Willeme 4 speed gearbox driving via a 3 speed auxillary. Road speed at 205 tonnes was calculated at 12.7 kph. Tyre equipment was 1200x24 G24 Michelin, for both the tractor, and four axle trailer, (12 wheels, the rear tri axle bogie being manually steered by a steersman on the left hand side behind the rearmost axle. Pneumatic steering on the unit, with both engine, and gearbox mounted compressors.
She was the first of Willeme`s 8 wheel heavy load carriers, culminating in the TG range. At the time the only other easily available option was the Pacific M26, ex US Forces. This lorry really created the heavy haulage and quality image for Louis Willeme.
Cheerio for now.
Brilliant! Thank you. 
Robert