Pat Hasler wrote:
I knew a fellow night driver ‘Black Diamond’ most of us knew him as ‘Sony’ he was stopped by police on the M1 near Nottingham for doing 106 MPH
I remember my dad in the mid eighies bought a Transcon equiped with a “coach” back axle off an owner driver who was forced to fold his business after loosing his licence for doing just this. He had some contract with a fertilizer company running a flat bed so one would asume running back empty and trying to get back to the depot for another load.
Urban folklore at the time had the police taking him about six miles to come to a stop so may well have been loaded with 20ton of fert.
Would imagine he lost his O licence into the bargin.
years ago pre m6 toll road , I did my house in Wellingborough to Homebase Carlisle in 4.5 hours dead, ERF E14 320/ twin splitter , think that’s about a 55 mph average, I seemed to be around 65 most of time if I remember correctly
most of the older ERF’s I had ran out of puff around 66 mph , didn’t matter if it was a ■■■■■■■ 250 or gardner 240 , FIAT 170/26 around the 75 mph (on the flat), only once, ran out of M45 before it max’d out.
when I worked in corby we had some F10 265’s delivered, really high speed diffs with 16 speed boxes, basically for economy, but with no speed limiter and drivers paid by what the motor earned , they weren’t particularly economical, 80 plus easy with one (A303GJF), corby - fleetwood 21 tonnes 4.5 hours (no A14 and no M6 toll) on nights, came back with empty flatbeds.
My dad had some FORD D series which had been worked on , mainly coach diffs , eaton 2 speeds etc , he had a D600 (WRP442J), 4 speed/eaton 2 speed with a coach diff good for 80 ish , good enough to overtake Mercedes 0303 coaches on the way back from st tropez anyway. he did order a d series with I think the 6 speed / eaton 2 speed, coach diff , but with the 360 turbo instead of the 380 naturally aspirated , never took delivery but a bloke in Northampton did and was done for speeding in kent .
most of the time I just used to stick to around the 100 kph/ 62 mph , seemed a happy speed for the ERF l10 - 250 , 9 speed roadranger I drove for several years.
I always had a little caution at the back of my mind . Going down bromsgrove bank on the m5 in the early 1970s with an aec 8 legger , doing about 70+mph when the offside front tyre blew . If it had been an artic I think it wold have been game over . That always reminded me to steady up a bit when I got a bit exuberant .
Hey, if I kook here you must have had very fast diffs in your Fiat’s. Because Fiat was one of the slowest lorries here,
most did only around 85 with V8 engines at 2500revs. The 6 in line did only 1900 revs and was as slow,but with a turn on the pump they did 90/95 but not for a long time, as they blow up.
Most here did only 95/105 at 2300/2500 revs with the fastest diffs available from mid '60 on, only Daf was a bit faster, still with the P 0.680, but on hilly roads very slow.
In that time all who mounted coach diffs or took the option faster diff for the 15 tonner for an 38 tonnes, came heavy loaded or in windy days never in top gear. And with at that time the only 6/9/10 speedboxes or with a two speed were very slow on hilly roads, and don’t speak of stop starts on hills which sometimes could’t get off again, because first gear has been faster as well with a faster diff. And don’t forget we had the 1200 X 20 tyres too.
The first speeders we got were the 16 speed Volvo’s, and other makes with faster standard diffs, in time where power was becoming over 300 and going up to nearly 400, and only at 2500 they were 125/135 fastest.
but understand from the mid '80’s and power up to 450/500 and diffs which gave 90 kph at 1300/1500 revs and a turn at the mechanical pumps still were real flyers at 2500 @, before the so hated limiters came, which were so often deconnected.
FIAT was a 1981 170/26 14 litre 240 hp engine with a 13 speed eaton gearbox, fast on the flat , but hillwork was hard work, you pretty soon were down in the low box , and was run at 32t. the Volvos were the 1982 /1983 fuel economy models , about 8 mpg on the steel work if driven conservatively , our lot had them down to around 3 to 4 mpg, so mr davis quickly swapped them after 12 months to ERF’s with ■■■■■■■ 10 -250 engines and a single L10-290, these were run at 38t
the FORDs were used on mobile home work , no weight but a lot of bulk. going to south of france it was all RN roads , needed the speedfor the autoroute on the way back to get in a finedon - st tropez - finedon load done in a week. when they were swapped onto uk parcel trunking they took forever to get to forton services with a 33’ box trailer, and were swapped to GUY big J’s with ■■■■■■■ 205 engines
tiptop495:
Hey, if I kook here you must have had very fast diffs in your Fiat’s. Because Fiat was one of the slowest lorries here,
most did only around 85 with V8 engines at 2500revs.
Eric,
In general no one in more speed restricted Euroland geared anything for UK type speeds in the day.However the absolute flat out speeds,of an unlimited UK spec and geared truck,on the flat in the day,with anything like a decent output,shouldn’t be underestimated.Also bearing in mind that the trade press road tests weren’t in the habit of winding something up over long distances,on the flat,to silly illegal speeds and then printing the results.
As for Sonny’s bs I should know because I worked with him long enough.On that note he’s right in the sense that our 2500’s,which from memory is what he mainly drove,were ‘geared’ at silly speeds .But they were so over geared they were lucky to manage to pull 70 mph max on the flat,more like downhill,with a following wind and a lost cause when they saw a hill.Unlike,as I said Ron’s 2800 ATI,which was mistakenly fitted with a 3300 spec motor from the factory.Which not only had the typical high 2800 ATI UK gearing with high diff and 9 speed fuller,but also had the power to pull most of it,also bearing in mind our operation’s relatively light 32t gross max,often less, running weights,and as such was one of the fastest trucks I ever drove,including Detroit V8 powered TM 16 tonners.
But even in that case some of the really silly speeds being described here were the reserve of big power engines only found across the pond like ■■■■■■■ KTA running at less than 38t gross etc with no one likely to have reached 100 mph + with much less than 500-600 hp +.
Having said that it might be possible that Sonny might have driven Ron’s unit as I did on occasions.In which case if anyone was going to nicked with it at some really silly speed and then add a bit more for effect it would have been Sonny.
One of my friends told me that he had a Foden S21 eight legger powder tanker when he drove for Barlow and Hodgkinson that Gardners had ‘tweaked’ the engine and that would fly. Maybe Dave (Rigsby) recalls Denzil Goodwin having it? Only Gardner mechanics could work on it, even oil changes were done by them, and he could do Tunstead (Buxton) to Brighton and back daily with it. It was only there for a while and Gardners took the engine back again, I suppose it was a return to the old 150LX then? Having said that, we had Foden S50 halfcabs with 6LXB’s in them and one of those lost a set of rear wheels loaded on the M1 at around the 70mph mark, he complained that it wouldn’t go so I fiddled with the pump on it and it certainly went then! Never found the wheels though, he said that it started vibrating so he went faster to drive through it and the vibration stopped (presumably when they fell off!) he noticed they were missing when he stopped at the services.
windrush:
One of my friends told me that he had a Foden S21 eight legger powder tanker when he drove for Barlow and Hodgkinson that Gardners had ‘tweaked’ the engine and that would fly. Maybe Dave (Rigsby) recalls Denzil Goodwin having it? Only Gardner mechanics could work on it, even oil changes were done by them, and he could do Tunstead (Buxton) to Brighton and back daily with it. It was only there for a while and Gardners took the engine back again, I suppose it was a return to the old 150LX then? Having said that, we had Foden S50 halfcabs with 6LXB’s in them and one of those lost a set of rear wheels loaded on the M1 at around the 70mph mark, he complained that it wouldn’t go so I fiddled with the pump on it and it certainly went then! Never found the wheels though, he said that it started vibrating so he went faster to drive through it and the vibration stopped (presumably when they fell off!) he noticed they were missing when he stopped at the services.
Pete.
I don’t remember denzil at Barlows , but anything he drove went like a rocket . There was a longson’s driver who could make gardeners fly . Rumour has it that he had some spare pump triggers from patricroft which he filed , and when he fitted them it gave 5 to 8 mph extra and a lot more pulling power . I know nobody could catch him on the south wales run . Dave
Geest’s Fodens out of Barry Docks on the Bananas didn’t hang around on the M5 at night - somewhere around 85 on average
Used to take me a while to catch & overtake them in the Eden Vale F12s
But the Old Bill were different then - between around 10pm & 6am if they were ahead and saw you coming you got a couple of Blue light flashes then left indicator
which meant come on through drive - sensible policing, but alas not nationwide.
But the same coppers would nick you at 70 if you were driving solo, they didn’t like that
I recall an acquaintance of mine in the early 1970s looking to triple shift his Volvo F88s with acid tankers between Widnes and Glasgow. He was very disappointed with his drivers, they just couldn’t quite manage three round trips in a 24 hour period.
gingerfold:
I recall an acquaintance of mine in the early 1970s looking to triple shift his Volvo F88s with acid tankers between Widnes and Glasgow. He was very disappointed with his drivers, they just couldn’t quite manage three round trips in a 24 hour period.
A round trip of 444 miles gives an average speed of 55.5mph over 8 hours. That’s do-able even with speed limiters. Sack 'em. Joking aside, what a shame the freedom and convenience of the great new roads has been spoiled with excess traffic. Even without speed limiters, and the 100+mph vehicles mentioned above, would you get just two trips in nowadays?
Probably, for a few weeks in November and December last year we were trunking nightly from Bolton (empty), load at Leith Docks, return to Bolton. Including legal breaks (and speed limiters) it was a comfortable 11.5 hours shift with 8 hours 35 minutes total driving time most nights. Round trip 430 miles, gross weight southbound was 43.00 to 43.50 tonnes. It’s much less congested travelling north than it is travelling south.
Back in the 70’s a local chap, who still exhibits a classic lorry at shows, drove for a well known local haulier mostly carting coal and coke. Due to being out all week and living on ale and chips his health suffered and his weight increased drastically so he asked for local work instead. He was given a brand new Big J four wheeler with a Leyland engine, five days a week he ran empty up to South Elmsall to load (leaving early to beat Hansons, but you couldn’t load until 7am!) and delivered it to a place in Newcastle. After tipping he reloaded coke from another North East site for delivery to the Glowworm foundry near Belper, but had to be tipped before 3pm or the gates were closed. He said that he needed to tramp on to get it all done in time, on Saturdays he ran empty to Coalite at Bolsover for delivery to Warwick or Leamington. After a year he had enough, the lorry was tired and he left after falling asleep at the wheel and almost hitting a bridge parapet, he went to another local firm on powder tanks and that was a lot easier. When tachos came in he left transport as he couldn’t get the work done in the hours. I guess that the work allocated dictated the speed trucks needed to travel at in those days?
[zb]
anorak:
A round trip of 444 miles gives an average speed of 55.5mph over 8 hours. That’s do-able even with speed limiters. Sack 'em. Joking aside, what a shame the freedom and convenience of the great new roads has been spoiled with excess traffic. Even without speed limiters, and the 100+mph vehicles mentioned above, would you get just two trips in nowadays?
Unfortunately going by some of the comments there seems to actually be planners out there who think that it’s possible to maintain a 55 mph ‘average’ speed limited to a 56 mph ‘max’ speed. But given no limiters and no road closures I’d guess that around 200 miles in well under 4 hours on night trunks at least would be as easy now as it was in the 1980’s.
Geoffo:
Trying to keep up with any Dukes transport truck was the thing for me… They used to rocket by…
70 mph with a Volvo F7 was normal while i was on for Carryfast. The night men said i was taking it easy as it could go well above 80 mph…
Blimey even Sonny wouldn’t have dream’t that idea up.The F7 was even more gutless than the 2500’s and that’s saying something. Having said that the FL10’s were reasonably quick and a great improvement after being lumbered with a batch of cheap and nasty day cabbed Scania 93’s for a while.
Geoffo:
Trying to keep up with any Dukes transport truck was the thing for me… They used to rocket by…
70 mph with a Volvo F7 was normal while i was on for Carryfast. The night men said i was taking it easy as it could go well above 80 mph…
Blimey even Sonny wouldn’t have dream’t that idea up.The F7 was even more gutless than the 2500’s and that’s saying something. Having said that the FL10’s were reasonably quick and a great improvement after being lumbered with a batch of cheap and nasty day cabbed Scania 93’s for a while.
Hiya,
Cheap and nasty Scania 93’s, you should have gotten lumbered with the even
cheaper and nastier Scania 80’s that purported to be 32 tonners not having a
sleeper was of no concern to me I always used digs after a day sat behind the
wheel I didn’t wish to sleep behind it and that was any lorry.
thanks harry, long retired.
Having said that, we had Foden S50 halfcabs with 6LXB’s in them and one of those lost a set of rear wheels loaded on the M1 at around the 70mph mark, he complained that it wouldn’t go so I fiddled with the pump on it and it certainly went then! 