Maga Wrote
‘ The same union has secured me nearly 10% in pay rises the last 3 years with £500-750+ cash bonus’s for signing the new pay deals.
another 4.5% increase from the 1st of next month too.
Unions aint all that bad in my experience. ‘
Those are good points - wonder where those pay rises would have gone without union representation? Shareholders divdends or gaffers new Range Rover maybe?
MickM
the maoster:
Where I work the day men get a guaranteed 10 hours pay just for putting their card in, the trampers a guaranteed 12 hours. If I run in on a Saturday I get a guaranteed 10 hours at time and a half. If I have a doctors/hospital/dentist appointment I get 10 hours pay and the day off. If I’m on the sick I get the same average pay as if I was on holiday. I get medicals, eyetests, DCPC, eyeglasses paid for. Whatever percentage of my wage I put into a pension is matched by the company (up to 15%).Do you think this is because I work for a forward thinking and caring employer, or do you think it’s because I work at a place that has a strong union that works hand in hand with the Co for the benefit of all? Make your own minds up.
Yeh but don’t let facts stated by you and juddian get in the way of all the stereotype propaganda Maost.
I wish tf my firm was a Union firm, with all the crap they dish out.
Rjan:
Bearing in mind that the whole point of the strike is to boycott an employer and ensure that work doesn’t get done until they accept the terms of the workforce, how would you propose that such a bitter strike should have been conducted?
Would you as a single mother of 2 toddlers risk your home for what ultimately turned out to be an extra 20p an hour?
The 2 year campaign was after the strike had “won”. These were people she’d worked with for years but mob mentality and union loyalty took over.
robroy:
the maoster:
Where I work the day men get a guaranteed 10 hours pay just for putting their card in, the trampers a guaranteed 12 hours. If I run in on a Saturday I get a guaranteed 10 hours at time and a half. If I have a doctors/hospital/dentist appointment I get 10 hours pay and the day off. If I’m on the sick I get the same average pay as if I was on holiday. I get medicals, eyetests, DCPC, eyeglasses paid for. Whatever percentage of my wage I put into a pension is matched by the company (up to 15%).Do you think this is because I work for a forward thinking and caring employer, or do you think it’s because I work at a place that has a strong union that works hand in hand with the Co for the benefit of all? Make your own minds up.
Yeh but don’t let facts stated by you and juddian get in the way of all the stereotype propaganda Maost.
I wish tf my firm was a Union firm, with all the crap they dish out.
You don’t think there are any bad issues or stories about unions then rob? Well of course there will be some success stories with regards the unions, but it isn’t all good news. I could tell you a few stories of my dealings with unions that would make you think again.
My father was never a union man, but during the early 90’s he and his colleagues faced losing their jobs, they knew it was coming and understood times had changed, but wanted a fair settlement from the company.
My father was well into his 50’s and the country was in the middle of a recession, he knew finding a new job quickly would be difficult. My father like many of his colleagues had worked for the company for over 20 years and until about 5 years earlier it was a family run company and the owners made a point of visiting each branch every yea and talking to the staff and more importantly listening to them. However the company was now a PLC, the family had long gone and was run by corporate types from a head office, no chance of them visiting a branch, let alone listening.
Head office made life very difficult for my father and his colleagues, seemily in the hope they would leave or they’d find a way of dismissing them, thus saving redundancy payments. So to fight this pressure my father and his colleagues joined a union, not sure which one, but they all joined and all stuck together, the union gave them legal advice and the respsentation they required and they got thier redundancy, more than the minimum as well. My father told me the day he was made redundant, he got the first goods nights sleep he’d had for a long while.
muckles:
My father was never a union man, but during the early 90’s he and his colleagues faced losing their jobs, they knew it was coming and understood times had changed, but wanted a fair settlement from the company.My father was well into his 50’s and the country was in the middle of a recession, he knew finding a new job quickly would be difficult. My father like many of his colleagues had worked for the company for over 20 years and until about 5 years earlier it was a family run company and the owners made a point of visiting each branch every yea and talking to the staff and more importantly listening to them. However the company was now a PLC, the family had long gone and was run by corporate types from a head office, no chance of them visiting a branch, let alone listening.
Head office made life very difficult for my father and his colleagues, seemily in the hope they would leave or they’d find a way of dismissing them, thus saving redundancy payments. So to fight this pressure my father and his colleagues joined a union, not sure which one, but they all joined and all stuck together, the union gave them legal advice and the respsentation they required and they got thier redundancy, more than the minimum as well. My father told me the day he was made redundant, he got the first goods nights sleep he’d had for a long while.
You wouldn’t be able to join a union nowadays in those circumstances. Once redundancy notices have been issued you cannot get a union to fight it retrospectively. You need to have been in the union for aprox 3 months beforehand. The unions will not fight anyone unless they are certain they can win, otherwise they are simply legal aid.
Sign up, otherwise you will be a pariah. Then enjoy the job until the union boyos bleed the life out of the company and it goes bang.
UKtramp:
You don’t think there are any bad issues or stories about unions then rob? Well of course there will be some success stories with regards the unions, but it isn’t all good news. I could tell you a few stories of my dealings with unions that would make you think again.
I never said Unions were flawless, any system, any organisation is open to corruption.
Whenever anybody tries to point out how Unions are this that and the other and the ruination of the British worker, and all the rest of the anti union bs, the name Scargill always comes up, Red Robbo of the BL days, the winter of discontent, and any other bad political union related periods in our history.
My answer to that is, if you want to refer to history to make a point, then go even further back when normal working men reared up against unscrupulous employers and gained many rights for a downtrodden workforce in the 20s and 30s.
However to be honest, I am not concerned with both those for and against arguments, and history lectures, that stopped being important to me when I completed my History course at school, …and no offence UKt, but neither am I interested in ‘‘the stories that would make me think again’’ …I have more than likely heard similar stories anyway.
The ONLY thing I’m concerned with now on this subject though, as a working driver, is that if the 30 or so drivers in my depot, and all the others in other depots, just united together, either in an official Trade Union, or an internal union in the sense of drivers just standing together for a common cause, I would be on much better t.s and c.s and not have to put up with, and try to get around all the crap, that I have to now…a point proven by Maoster’s post. 
UKtramp:
muckles:
My father was never a union man, but during the early 90’s he and his colleagues faced losing their jobs, they knew it was coming and understood times had changed, but wanted a fair settlement from the company.My father was well into his 50’s and the country was in the middle of a recession, he knew finding a new job quickly would be difficult. My father like many of his colleagues had worked for the company for over 20 years and until about 5 years earlier it was a family run company and the owners made a point of visiting each branch every yea and talking to the staff and more importantly listening to them. However the company was now a PLC, the family had long gone and was run by corporate types from a head office, no chance of them visiting a branch, let alone listening.
Head office made life very difficult for my father and his colleagues, seemily in the hope they would leave or they’d find a way of dismissing them, thus saving redundancy payments. So to fight this pressure my father and his colleagues joined a union, not sure which one, but they all joined and all stuck together, the union gave them legal advice and the respsentation they required and they got thier redundancy, more than the minimum as well. My father told me the day he was made redundant, he got the first goods nights sleep he’d had for a long while.
You wouldn’t be able to join a union nowadays in those circumstances. Once redundancy notices have been issued you cannot get a union to fight it retrospectively. You need to have been in the union for aprox 3 months beforehand. The unions will not fight anyone unless they are certain they can win, otherwise they are simply legal aid.
Redundancy hadn’t been offered, the company were trying to get rid of the staff by putting them under pressure so either left or so they could sack them. Like I said my father and his colleagues knew the job was finished, but considering the years of service all they wanted was a fair deal, so they had something to tide them over until they could find new jobs, in the end my father went on to work for himself and kept doing so past retirement age, until ill health forced him to give up and then he didn’t stop until he was house bound. So hardly the feckless workshop type.
This went on for far longer than 3 months, might have been a year or more, for my father and us watching him struggle with the company treatment it felt like years.
UKtramp:
You don’t think there are any bad issues or stories about unions then rob? Well of course there will be some success stories with regards the unions, but it isn’t all good news. I could tell you a few stories of my dealings with unions that would make you think again.
I’m sure that you do have a few stories mate, and in fairness to your history you’ll probably have experienced things from your perspective that I haven’t and most likely never will. I do think though that to tarnish ALL unions as a bad thing is a tad unfair; we’ve all experienced bad service at a restaurant or a car dealer or a garage etc but it’d be unfair to say they were all bad on that basis. You have to go with your own gut instinct sometimes; I was a tanker driver during the fuel blockades and left the T&G in disgust when I perceived that they had turned against the strikers in favour of their own Knighthoods etc. That’s not to say that the T&G were bad per se, just that on that particular issue they had (in my perception) lost their way. Everyone has the right to cancel their subs and walk away, or even campaign for a change in leadership if that’s what they think is required.
I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve worked at both unionised and non unionised places and overwhelmingly have found that the better pay and conditions have been at the unionised places. That to me is the acid test my friend.
the maoster:
UKtramp:
You don’t think there are any bad issues or stories about unions then rob? Well of course there will be some success stories with regards the unions, but it isn’t all good news. I could tell you a few stories of my dealings with unions that would make you think again.I’m sure that you do have a few stories mate, and in fairness to your history you’ll probably have experienced things from your perspective that I haven’t and most likely never will. I do think though that to tarnish ALL unions as a bad thing is a tad unfair; we’ve all experienced bad service at a restaurant or a car dealer or a garage etc but it’d be unfair to say they were all bad on that basis. You have to go with your own gut instinct sometimes; I was a tanker driver during the fuel blockades and left the T&G in disgust when I perceived that they had turned against the strikers in favour of their own Knighthoods etc. That’s not to say that the T&G were bad per se, just that on that particular issue they had (in my perception) lost their way. Everyone has the right to cancel their subs and walk away, or even campaign for a change in leadership if that’s what they think is required.
I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve worked at both unionised and non unionised places and overwhelmingly have found that the better pay and conditions have been at the unionised places. That to me is the acid test my friend.
I am not totally against unions in the least, I have had dealings with them that have involved corruption in order to give a slight gain what their members have asked for, I have also seen a good side of of them too. I would just rather deal with my own destiny than to be placed into their hands to shape mine. As I say I have seen some very bad hands dealt to workers through unions. There are good and bad with everything.
I was a member of the…
TGWU in the 80s.
I had the best pay, conditions and support in the 35+ years I’ve been in the industry.
No union is perfect but, we’re a divided bunch now. Just how the gaffers like it.
yourhavingalarf:
we’re a divided bunch now. Just how the gaffers like it.
Aint we just so, have a look on this forum for proof.
And Christ how much do these gaffers like it, …and how they take full advantage of it.
People say how much the dreaded Unions would ■■■■ the job up, but I think drivers are managing that quite well by themselves with some attitudes and opinions displayed, both on here and in real life.
robroy:
yourhavingalarf:
we’re a divided bunch now. Just how the gaffers like it.Aint we just so, have a look on this forum for proof.
And Christ how much do these gaffers like it, …and how they take full advantage of it.
People say how much the dreaded Unions would [zb] the job up, but I think drivers are managing that quite well by themselves with some attitudes and opinions displayed, both on here and in real life.
The man cannot say it clearer folks. Start backing each other up or become minimum wage attendants in the not so distant future…
You really don’t need a Union to do that, if people would only complain more like they do on here so easily. If there is something that I don’t agree with at work or dislike about the job I open my mouth about it. If drivers stuck together to take action for themselves more then we would not be in the mess we are in now. I cannot understand the mentality of people fearing losing a ■■■■ job thinking there is nothing else but to take all of of the crap just thrown at them. My opinion of most drivers today is most definitely weak and fearful. Plenty spout off on here but I’l wager anyone they don’t do the same at work.
UKtramp:
You really don’t need a Union to do that, if people would only complain more like they do on here so easily. If there is something that I don’t agree with at work or dislike about the job I open my mouth about it. If drivers stuck together to take action for themselves more then we would not be in the mess we are in now. I cannot understand the mentality of people fearing losing a [zb] job thinking there is nothing else but to take all of of the crap just thrown at them. My opinion of most drivers today is most definitely weak and fearful. Plenty spout off on here but I’l wager anyone they don’t do the same at work.
I agree, but a union of sorts whether official Trade Union or a union among drivers have a much louder voice, rather than an individual.
Speaking as one of your regular ‘‘spouter offers’’ on here 
, I speak up, but on the other hand I aint a gob ■■■■■ (contrary to popular belief on here ) who comes with the ‘‘I aint doing this, I aint doing that’’ I just don’t allow ■■■■ takes.
So consequently now I’m not asked to do some of the stuff the others are, and I don’t get hassled.
So yeh, you are right in some of what you say, it does work.
But not everyone is able to speak up for many different reasons, so a group joined together is always more effective.
UKtramp:
You can all kid yourselves on as much as you like that being in a union is somehow protecting you and your interests. Companies are no longer afraid of the unions and the unions have very little power over them. They are more like lawyers nowadays and looking out for themselves. The members of the unions (you) are even more afraid of losing their jobs and dare not rock the boat, wait until you end up in a situation that you need your mates and the union to stand by you, you will be sadly disappointed. The union rep will be on the lookout for himself and the union are doing the same thing, what are you left with? A bunch of lads who dare not say boo to a ghost. Union or no union, you are on your own. A complete waste of time.
The fact that UKTrump believes that unions are a complete waste of time should be a very strong indication to everyone that unions are well worth while and do a good job.
In my view the post from UKTrump puts him as number one Troll on the forum which presumably is what he hasn’t always wanted…
I only read the original post, so excuse me if I touch on anything already said.
My last job was 4 on 4 off nights, and we were heavily unionised too. It’s the only job I ever had where we saw constant results. We weren’t receiving the holiday pay we were entitled to, so we stuck together, and won a case. We were back paid quite handsomely. There was also another payout - a 6% payrise, backdated for 2 years too! There was no obligation to go to meetings, and I used the reps to my advantage a few times.
In my current job, my company definitely don’t pay what we’re entitled to for holidays, and they also don’t recognise unions. We’re also run ragged, and the attitude is “if you don’t like it, zb off”. I rang my union to ask for advice, and they advised me not to go it alone. So I take home peanuts during my holidays.
I’d love a unionised job once again - the only thing is, there will always be a golden circle of old-timer union boys looking to feather their own nest, who will often be more privileged than newcomers, especially when ‘reshuffles’ and ‘restructures’ are on the cards.
robroy:
I agree, but a union of sorts whether official Trade Union or a union among drivers have a much louder voice, rather than an individual.
Speaking as one of your regular ‘‘spouter offers’’ on here
So consequently now I’m not asked to do some of the stuff the others are, and I don’t get hassled.
So yeh, you are right in some of what you say, it does work.
But not everyone is able to speak up for many different reasons, so a group joined together is always more effective.
There are advantages to each side of the argument rob, I think the one thing we will both agree on, is the halfwits that are now drivers that we have to work with are the main reason the industry has gone in the direction it has done. The unions lost all power after the thatcher days and have never got it back,they are merely employment lawyers now and a group of drivers together with an employment lawyer can sort that problem out, unless the employers are breaking any laws there is little a union can do to alter the course. Drivers need to get behind each other and back each other up that is a fact, but we do not have the proper drivers anymore, just a set of auto driving numpty’s that can only follow a satnav and have probably come from a worse job than their current one. What chance is there now of ever getting back any decent jobs or receiving any respect from employers.
I have to agree with uk tramp and rob for their comments…but…( sorry to mention the old days ) we had no choice but to join a union if you wanted a good job with good conditions, and boy was we looked after, thats when union officials were not afraid to jump at the management…today however, the management would threaten them…and they would go cap in hand to the workforce spouting that we aint getting nuffin no money in the job, rates too low etc, cant afford it as i have a new land rover on order…whose gonna pay for that
I`ve been fighting management most of my life, lost a lot of jobs too, telling them things like i aint sweeping the yard, washing trucks cos the works a bit slow etc, got the tin tack cos i dare to complain about a disgusting truck someone else uses, mind you i didnt mince my words…disciplinary, out the door…maybe the fact i also refused to have nine off and took eleven instead didnt help, as other drivers wanted the same once i made the lead…with them spouting why can he do it etc etc…i fight my own corner…but with the industry the way it is, with the way we are treated in general, with the new no parking rules and weekend in the cab rules, the general demise of the unions that maggie was whole heartedly to blame…now is the time we really need a strong union right across this industry…sadly we aint gonna get it, drivers today have no back bone for a fight…too happy with their lot so to speak, even though many will spout their gobs off on here about how bad it is…how they cant wait to get out of the industry…how their bosses treat them…etc etc, but i will say this, its gonna get worse, and serves you all right.