I was thinking I’d get stuck in traffic yesterday and need the extra hour driving. As it turns out, I didn’t need it (shock horror, through the dartford tunnel at 5-00pm). This is the way I was planning on doing it:
Sat at Safeways Aylsbury for 3 hours. 1h 15min of it on break. That deals with my 45 min and resets my driving hours to 4.5 again. The extra 30min knocks most of my second 45 off, leaving me with just 15 to take if I need to .
The hour guard (as far as I could see - maybe I’m missing something else ) wanted me to take another 45 after the 1h 15min. I can’t find anything in the regs which I carry with me saying you can’t lump your breaks in togeather like this. Can someone put me straight if I’m wrong?
The Regulation says that the 45 minute break may be split into 2 or 3 separate breaks of at least 15 minutes each, distributed over the driving period or immediately after this period. So, it is possible to take some or all of the break at the end of the 4.5 hour period
The Hourguard is right - your spare 30 minute break was before the 2nd driving period - not distributed over or immediately after it - so didn’t count as a proper break
Ian, totally wrong. (Unless Neil tells me otherwise. )
You cannot take a break and then immediately commence another break (or breaks).
If you were at Aylesford for 3 hours, then that would have been about 10 mins to hand in the paperwork, park on the bay, and hand in the keys. And then at the end, approx 20 minutes collecting notes and pallets.
What I would have done is leave it on break for the whole of the 2 1/2 hour period, which could be then counted towards Daily Rest - see below, and then, if traffic had been bad, I would have parked up for another 1 1/2 hours (and a bit), which would then have allowed the working day to be extended to 16 hours. (or rather, the daily rest to be reduced to 8 hours)
It is sometimes better to think about maximising your working hours rather than joining a traffic queue and then having to maximise your Daily Driving.
I’m pleased I’ve got the hour guard. I’ll go by that in future then . Thanks for the replys guys. As it was I didn’t need to do it. I’ll have a read up on that split shift as well Krankee - it’s just interpreting the ruddy gobbldeygooke they chuck at you . We live and laern .
Denis, Krankee and the Hour Guard are all correct, you can’t divide that 1 hour 15 minutes the way you did. However if after 45 minutes you had done one minute of other work and then put it back on rest for the remaining 29 minutes you would technically been legal and would have just needed a further 16 minutes to make up to the 45. I know it isn’t much different to what you did but one is legal under the regulations, if a bit of a con really, and the other isn’t.
Best thing Ian if you are in doubt go with what the Hour Guard is saying because that is 99.9% correct.
Coffeeholic:
Denis, Krankee and the Hour Guard are all correct, you can’t divide that 1 hour 15 minutes the way you did. However if after 45 minutes you had done one minute of other work and then put it back on rest for the remaining 29 minutes you would technically been legal and would have just needed a further 16 minutes to make up to the 45. I know it isn’t much different to what you did but one is legal under the regulations, if a bit of a con really, and the other isn’t.
Best thing Ian if you are in doubt go with what the Hour Guard is saying because that is 99.9% correct.
Coffee/Neill you have suprised me, you are generally very knowledgeable, but in this case you are totally wrong.
Breaks apply ONLY to driving hours, other work does not come into it. As an example: You could do other work for 10.5 hours (in the yard say), then go out & drive for 4.5 hours, taking you to the end of a thrice weekly extended 15 hr shift, without ever having a break.
Regards, Jonathan. (BTW, your diaries are superb)!
Coffeeholic:
However if after 45 minutes you had done one minute of other work and then put it back on rest for the remaining 29 minutes you would technically been legal and would have just needed a further 16 minutes to make up to the 45
Neil, are you sure. (I really should learn not to do this because he ALWAYS proves me wrong ), I thought Breaks separated ‘periods of Driving’, not periods of ‘Driving or Other Work’.
You are both right, I don’t know where I came up with that from. I meant to say that had he driven for just one minute after the 45 (driven just a short distance while waiting to get unloaded for instance) and then gone back on break for 29 he would have only needed 16 minutes later, showing how just one minute can change something from being illegal to being legal. Instead I showed how typing the wrong word can change something from being correct into being total rubbish.
Ian ignore completely what I said, it’s been a long day as I haven’t been to sleep since 00:30 Thursday morning.
Not if you are not doing the tipping or loading and are sitting in the cab or canteen or have gone for a walk etc and are reading or watching TV, having something to eat, sleeping or whatever else you choose to do.
but your vehicle is still being tipped,irrespective if your tipping it yourself or not,it is still up against a bay and therefore would be classed as other work.so your not having a proper break which means that you must not be in any form of work and away from loading/unloading area.
The words that are used here are “free to dispose of your own time” So as long as you are not having to handball the load or operate ancillary equipment, you can take a break while being tipped.
Just leave it on other work or driving long enough to open your doors and back it on the bay and then take a break while waiting.
kitkat:
but your vehicle is still being tipped,irrespective if your tipping it yourself or not,it is still up against a bay and therefore would be classed as other work. so your not having a proper break which means that you must not be in any form of work and away from loading/unloading area.
Not if you are taking no part in the loading/unloading. Also the regulations make no reference to you having to be away from the loading area or the vehicle while taking a break.
What is your definition of a ‘proper break?’ As Wheel Nut says you just have to be free to dispose of your time as you wish and while it is being tipped or loaded and you can do what ever you like, sleep, read, stand on your head and contemplate the meaning of life, or whatever else floats your boat, you are not working.
Now I know someone will say that because you are there with the vehicle you are not free to dispose of your time, as required by the regulations, but if you take that as fact it would be impossible to take a legal break or a daily or in some cases weekly, rest.
The regulations for instance say you can take a break on a ferry but normally I would rather be elsewhere so does that mean it doesn’t count as a break for me? When parked on a truck stop or service station for the night I’m sure most of us would rather be at home so does that mean as we can’t do what we want to it is not a daily rest? Next weekend I’m going to be week ended in Italy Switzerland or Germany but I would rather be at home so will that not count as a weekly rest period for me because I can’t dispose of my time in the way I want to?
The free to dispose of your time thing has to be taken with a degree of common sense or a legal break would be impossible to comply with and it would just get silly. On Wednesday morning i drove from where I had parked over night and put the vehicle on the loading bay where for more than two hours the trailer wasn’t touched, in fact the shutter to the loading bay was down. In that time I had breakfast and generally passed the time doing various things, none of which involved having anything to do with the loading of the vehicle. Part of it was in the cab and part of it wasn’t but as far as I am concerned it was a break even though technically I wasn’t able to dispose of my time as I wanted at that moment, which was to be sitting on a beach on some tropical island with a cold drink and a hot woman.
And on another point, at that time of day, rather than risk being stuck in traffic on the M20-M25, I would have considered leaving the M20 at Jn 4, turning right past Snodland, and then onto the M2-A2, or even straight up to the M2 from Aylesford.
It might take 15-20 minutes longer but, that way, should the traffic get seriously fouled up, then there are plenty of opportunities around Gravesend and Bean to pull off and park up for an hour or so until the traffic improves.
kitkat:
but your vehicle is still being tipped,irrespective if your tipping it yourself or not,it is still up against a bay and therefore would be classed as other work.so your not having a proper break which means that you must not be in any form of work and away from loading/unloading area.
How does sleeping grab you - I certianly wouldn’t have a kip in the canteen, I’d sooner be in a bunk .
…and i’m sure you i know coffee, but 4 the benefit of others, you can start your Daily Rest as soon as you are aboard the ferry, & then interrupt it once to drive off the boat onto the quay side or nearby truckstop, etc.
There are some provisions though, such as a maximum amount of driving time during the interruption & possibly extension of the Rest Period.
Sure somebody will fill us in.
That’s right Jonathan and you can also start the rest on land and interrupt it to drive onto the ferry (or a train) but that needs a bit more planning because you have to make sure you have taken enough rest before you drive off the ferry or train at the end of its journey. You can interrupt the daily rest period only once and you must increase your required rest by 2 hours, so 9 becomes 11 or 11 becomes 13.
Any interruption in rest must be as short as possible and no more than 1 hour including doing customs, immigration etc…
During both parts of the rest period, the driver must have access to a bunk or couchette, so it doesn’t apply on the Dover /Calais crossing or on the shuttle for instance.
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) wanted me to take another 45 after the 1h 15min. I can’t find anything in the regs which I carry with me saying you can’t lump your breaks in togeather like this. Can someone put me straight if I’m wrong?
. Thanks for the replys guys. As it was I didn’t need to do it. I’ll have a read up on that split shift as well Krankee - it’s just interpreting the ruddy gobbldeygooke they chuck at you 
. We live and laern 
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), I thought Breaks separated ‘periods of Driving’, not periods of ‘Driving or Other Work’.
for you’s all it’s still illegal to have a break whilst being tipped or loaded is it not.