Firstly, allow me to answer your question Carryfast, no, wagon and drags are not exempt from this discussion, you however, are 
Secondly, Mr. Onlybigman, I have a few questions to put to you.
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How much of your career in the transport industry so far has been driving and how much has been training?
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Do you think that without all the need for H+S, would you have made a living out of transport for as long as you have?
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Could you please just admit that the real reason for you approving so much of industry training is that it justifies your current position with your current employer and you’re making a nice living out of it?
Don’t get me wrong, you’re probably on a nice screw and good luck, if I could get away with it, I more than likely would, but I can promise you that I wouldn’t be banging on about it to all and sundry, saying how important it is, when it really really isn’t 
Scarab:
Oh I dunno, I reckon a non driver probably could be taught to be a proper banksman.
Maybe, but a 4wheeler reserves differently from a 6wheeler with rear steer so you’d have to teach all of that. Personally i just dont think non-drivers should be getting involved with seeing lorries back.
I agree with Rob K on this one.
The only decent banksmen/man are those that can drive and do drive the vehicles as they know where to stand so they can be seen at all times and give directions. Not just stand there like some half witted traffic cop flapping there arms around and wandering off into the blind spot so you cant see them.
Whats with all this communication nonsense ? Out there in the real world nobody wants to talk to the driver and any person employed solely to be a banksmen in a yard/site has been given that posisiton because they are probably too thick to do anything else so will just stand looking at you with their gob open catching flys.
fact is this banksman or no banksman the person responsible for that vehicle n anything it might or might not hit is the DRIVER if in doubt get out n have a look simple really n if u look at most health n safety its basicly common sense
There was a fatal accident earlier this year with a bin wagon reversing into a back alley, a woman nipped behind the wagon and was crushed to death, this was near blackburn lancs, the crew man who was acting as banksman said the woman just ignored him and it was too late, had the driver not had a banksman he would be in jail right now. sadly the poor fellow is still off work with shock.
mavrick:
There was a fatal accident earlier this year with a bin wagon reversing into a back alley, a woman nipped behind the wagon and was crushed to death, this was near blackburn lancs, the crew man who was acting as banksman said the woman just ignored him and it was too late, had the driver not had a banksman he would be in jail right now. sadly the poor fellow is still off work with shock.
I dont mean to sound a ■■■■ but, she’s told to wait, lights flashing siren sounding what ■■■■■■■ more do people need to alert them to the hazard of a lorry reversing.
Saaamon:
mavrick:
There was a fatal accident earlier this year with a bin wagon reversing into a back alley, a woman nipped behind the wagon and was crushed to death, this was near blackburn lancs, the crew man who was acting as banksman said the woman just ignored him and it was too late, had the driver not had a banksman he would be in jail right now. sadly the poor fellow is still off work with shock.
I dont mean to sound a [zb] but, she’s told to wait, lights flashing siren sounding what [zb] more do people need to alert them to the hazard of a lorry reversing.
I agree saaamon but it shows the way the courts view these accidents. not be long before you need someone to walk in front with a red flag again.
And the people in the courts are… you guessed it, car drivers! The reason the poor driver is still off work is not because he killed her, he’s still in shock because he cant believe someone could be so think as to walk behind a reversing lorry, having been told to wait, aswell as the lights flashing and the siren sounding.
When I am reversing I prefer to have no one else around.Then I know that its down to me .I have been to some yards where a ZB waves his arms around and disappears behind the truck then pops out into the other mirror.A good man is a help ,but they are not all good men.
I don’t have a problem with banksmen, we have to use them all the time…BUT I will always trust my judgement over theirs, no matter how much they stand and wave like a poxy windmill…
The problem I have with one of the arguments put forward is that you should agree signals before you start the manouvre… Complete crap!!
Surely, a properly trained banksman will already know the correct signals because he has been properly trained! If he doesn’t know the signals, he shouldn’t be given the job! End!!
I also agree with another argument put forward - Health and safety is a moneyspinner for a lot of people, it ain’t about its own core values anymore, its about keeping a lot of woolly headed liberals off the streets and in employment. If it keeps going on the same vein, it will disappear up its own arse…the trouble is it will take what little remains of our businesses with it…
Just my opinion, of course…
OllieNotts:
Sounds like something that an office bod with no driving experience would come up with, unless there’s been a rise in accidents from vehicles reversing with out a banksman recently? Otherwise more bull [zb] in my opinion. Will cause chaos and probably mass road rage during rush hour
Short memories on here 
thisisnottingham.co.uk/Bin-l … story.html
And another take on it
pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=962484
I’ll bet my left testicle it’s to do with money, the company has probably had a few claims made against them.
ukmm:
We’ve just been told that if we reverse a vehicle ANYWHERE without a banksman then we will face formal disciplinary proceedings.
Our wagons have a crew (refuse collection) and they have to act as the banksman (training provided).
If the crew are away from the vehicle i.e. sorting refuse out a few streets away ect and the driver has to reverse the vehicle lets say because of someone parking a car in a awkward place or the driver has misjudged a turn and needs to drop back a couple of feet so he dosent clip a lamp post or something then the driver must stay still until the crew return to the vehicle even if he is blocking the road.
This is crazy and i can’t believe we are being forced to do this. There are times when a banksman is required for safety reasons but 99% of the time they are nothing more than a distraction from concentrating on the reversing manoeuvre itself.
I think it would have been much much better if the driver is advised to use banksmen when reversing but if he chooses not to and something naughty happens then the driver has to take full responsibility.
Have any of you guys came across this sort of nonsense? What are your thoughts?
99% of the refuse drivers round my way are complete arses.
Deliberately block roads when there is no need to…you see them with plenty of room to pull into the kerb but they just sit on the white line…
Refuse (no pun intended) to move even a foot further up the street to allow people to get by because then their loaders might have to walk an extra foot…and will no doubt immediately go in to malfunction mode and shut down!
Most of them shouldn’t be allowed to drive forwards without supervision let alone backwards!
Just to make one thing clear, I was a trainer and yes I did enjoy my job, and yes I was on a good screw! That I would never deny! Do I believe the in course content? Some. As a trainer I was able to skirt around the points of the course made that I did not whole heartedly agree with.
Alot of opinions flying around, I guess its a subject strong to most of your hearts hence the big responses here.
Rob, I hope we can agree on something in the future, but on this subject I still feel that a trained banksman who has had a brief talk with me before I conduct the manouvre is worthwhile and of a benefit to me.
I only speak from experience MrHappy as I have spent more of my life driving than training thank you, and a banksman has been a help to me.
If it’s local Authority then you’ll find it’s the Compensation Culture to blame, In Newcastle they have just had a total re-think on the refuse collection, so the vehicles only do one side of the street on main roads, no walking across busy roads to pick up bins.
Reversing is cut to the minimum and schools avoided during Intervals or dinner times.
Another thing is to think of the actual job itself, a 4 man crew is there for loading the vehicle not for 4 men to go pulling bins or bags out of properties to help get the job done quicker.
It sounds to me as if the case here is the driver doing collections on his own either going or returning from the tip. So put another angle on it, what if the driver is out of the cab on his own and injures himself?
Happened to me in 1981 thanks to some moron putting a broken mirror into a plain bin bag which sliced through my right knee resulting in 16 stitches, and there was no first aid boxes on the wagons in those days Lol.
H&S is getting out of control there is no doubt about that, but basic H&S procedures need to be implemented and if that means one man staying with the driver how can that be a bad thing?
all very well. until you run over the banksman.
limeyphil:
all very well. until you run over the banksman.
Would he be insured if he didn’t have a C+E? Sorry, couldn’t resist it… 
