heres a recent one …
DoYouMeanMe?:
What is the problem with cement in a tipper tank?
One problem occurs on windy days (especially with large tippers) is that they will sway in high winds. H&S will stop you tipping if v. windy. They can be more flexible for carrying different products tho, & definitely easier to sweep out.
Cheers for that Slicker this is the geezer I was about to phone 
. Brit pete I think that advert is for Finedon Mills 
Decided to email 'em through the website and see if anything comes of it. Looks like they have 4 on 2 off as usual shift pattern on specific jobs but maybe different on tramping. Will post up any info I get in case anyone else interested.
Mackem you aint wrong m8 I remember tipping once at Leith flour mill took 2.5 hours in high wind I nearly cra$$ed meself. 6 psi max or something stupid. Daren’t even get in the cab to make a cup of tea.
Cement could be a pain in a big tipping tank due to ullage some of the big tippers are nearly twice the capacity of smaller 2 pot belly tanks.
houndofhell:
Cement could be a pain in a big tipping tank due to ullage some of the big tippers are nearly twice the capacity of smaller 2 pot belly tanks.
Is there an ullage figure for cement?
“Ullage” is merely a % expression of free space in a tank, so if there is an ullage figure for cement, what difference would the size of any tank make?
BTW, houndofhell, I’ve never carried cement in any kind of tanker, so those are genuine questions. 
Christ dieseldave thats put me on the spot 
The more free space there is in a tank the longer it would take the compressor to get the tank to pressure. If you have a small tank filled to the top with a dense powder like 30t of cement nearly to the lids it would pressure up quickly and give you plenty of free air to push it up the pipe. The same stuff in a big tipper might come say half way up the tank with the rest of the tank empty. The same compressor producing the same volume of air would have to pressurise the empty space as well as the cement and provide the line pressure (boost). Probably not well explained…
That said cement flows easily so I guess it’s fairly academic.
houndofhell:
Christ dieseldave thats put me on the spot
I’ve no intention of doing that houndofhell, I’ve never driven a cement tank.
houndofhell:
Probably not well explained…
Sorry, I can’t agree with you there mate IMHO, that’s a great explanation.
That’s because I understood the explanation instantly thanks
Most of my tanker experience is on ADR liquid and/or gas tanks, so I realised that cement is a whole different ball-game, so thanks for that mate.
My question was to do with what ADR calls “filling ratios,” so you’ve shown me that ullage is important for another reason that I honestly hadn’t realised.
In my turn, I hope xlthunter understood my explanation of why cement isn’t a substance regulated by ADR.
We’ll all get there in the end.
Don’t think flour comes under ADR either and that’s quite easy to make a big bang with.
Regarding ullage, I mainly used a small dia tipper tank on a straight chassis and although it was back in the 38t days, cement when at max weight, was only about 1/4 to 1/3 up the tank.
Heaviest stuff I ever found was the powder used in toothpast. Sprinkle it along the bottom of the tank a foot deep and you were fully loaded.
DoYouMeanMe?:
Don’t think flour comes under ADR either and that’s quite easy to make a big bang with.
Correct on both counts DYMM, flour isn’t ADR and definitely does go BANG.
DoYouMeanMe?:
Regarding ullage, I mainly used a small dia tipper tank on a straight chassis and although it was back in the 38t days, cement when at max weight, was only about 1/4 to 1/3 up the tank.
I definitely didn’t know that.
It makes me wonder why the tank needs to be as big as it is…
Or is that some kind of “general purpose” tank that’s good for a variety of products. 
DoYouMeanMe?:
Heaviest stuff I ever found was the powder used in toothpast. Sprinkle it along the bottom of the tank a foot deep and you were fully loaded.
Now that’s really amazing.
I’ve learned a lot from you and houndofhell. Thanks very much to both of you. 
Leith flour mill took 2.5 hours in high wind I nearly cra$$ed meself. 6 psi max or something
think you will find Leith will only take *6 not a full 6bar…
Sorry mate splitting hairs I know but said 6 psi ie less than half a bar (1 bar = 14.7 psi I think). Nice run up the A1 I remember but ■■■■ cold on the quayside. Good night out though well near the city.
Yes, multi product work.
fly ash 2/3 full
Petroleum Cracker powder full
Plastic Full and still under weight
etc etc
That toothpaste powder was amazing. Any spillage about, if you grabbed a shovel and went to move a shovelful up you stood no chance. A bit on the tip was the limit.
oddsodz:
Leith flour mill took 2.5 hours in high wind I nearly cra$$ed meself. 6 psi max or something
think you will find Leith will only take *6 not a full 6bar…
6 bar would be 90psi, there are quite a few places (generally old) that have restrictions on discharge pressure. Longest tip I had was 6 hours - trying to get 4inch dolomite blown through a 3 inch valve - only took 50 mins once the valve was widened.
dave:
DoYouMeanMe?:
What is the problem with cement in a tipper tank?there isnt a problem as such using a tipper tank for cement (we used to have them) , but the main reasons they are,nt used for cement is the weight .
a tipper tank is at a guess 1.5 to 3 ton heavier than a belly tank (no chassis) and the cement game is all about tonnage delivered.
also a tipper tank has to be unloaded like any other tipper, ie) tractor and trailer in a straight line, which can be impossible to do in certain yards.also some customers do no allow tipper tanks on there sites .
Why do Castle Cement have donkeys on their tanks if they’re so bothered about weight ? Surely a chassis based blower would be lighter - could get 30t on a belly tank with one of these (more if you’d bought a lighter unit).
Mackem:
Why do Castle Cement have donkeys on their tanks if they’re so bothered about weight ? Surely a chassis based blower would be lighter - could get 30t on a belly tank with one of these (more if you’d bought a lighter unit).
Hi Mackem, Wouldn’t it be better to have the customer provide the compressor and other ancillary stuff
As I said, I’ve never done cement work, but it seems to me that the cement guys might take a leaf of the tank container game where (some of the time) the customer provides a compressor, and often even the product pipe.
Or am I missing a trick here
Dieseldave sorry to milk you for info and move the post into other areas but do you by any chance know anything about isotank in terms of working for them. Have also seen ads for Hoyer at Northampton again any info greatly appreciated as it looks like this is your game mate. Keep looking for that fantastic job but never seem to find it
By the way those donkeys are a waste of time cemex have them too.
houndofhell:
Dieseldave sorry to milk you for info and move the post into other areas but do you by any chance know anything about isotank in terms of working for them. Have also seen ads for Hoyer at Northampton again any info greatly appreciated as it looks like this is your game mate. Keep looking for that fantastic job but never seem to find itBy the way those donkeys are a waste of time cemex have them too.
Hi houndofhell, No problem giving any info that I know, trouble is I’m still learning too
I know what it’s like to look for that elusive job, so I gave up 
I’ve never had any dealings with Isotank, so I can’t help you with that one I’m afraid.
Sorry to dissapoint, but the same goes for Hoyer too, I’ve had no dealings with them either, but I’d suggest that you PM wirralpete, cos I’m fairly sure that he was on for Hoyer recently (ish.) Sorry to be so vague, but having no first-hand info, I’d sooner not do MMTM or “rumours” as they generally aren’t helpful.
but having no first-hand info, I’d sooner not do MMTM or “rumours” as they generally aren’t helpful
Best advice i’ve had all day dd looks like you’ve worn this particular t shirt in the past if you see what I mean, all the best
Wouldn’t it be better to have the customer provide the compressor and other ancillary stuff
As I said, I’ve never done cement work, but it seems to me that the cement guys might take a leaf of the tank container game where (some of the time) the customer provides a compressor, and often even the product pipe.
It would, but I suppose they figure that it is your job to tip the product into the silo, so why should they provide and maintain equipment.
Food stuffs (sugar etc), is always ‘customer supply’ because it has to be clean air and pipes (and on sugar low pressure or the sugar gets hot and stretches). The wasps are a bugger though on summer. You had to hit them with the steam hose to get them away from the pipes before you connect up and then keep an a eye out for them.
Mackem.
Donkey engines on the truck make it that the truck is non-specialised. You only need the equipment for the trailer and so it is self contained, plus why use a 14 litre engine to tip a tank when a 2 litre will do, but has the weight penalty. Swings and roundabouts really.
A lot of firms here in europe use nitrogen to blow off the loads
when we unloaded by aswiss firm in WIDNAU ,we were not allowed
to run the engine due to the enviroment pollution,this also goes for
our liquid tanker side again the majority of customers use either
their own air system or nitrogen,why safer ,cleaner,less pollution
from the lorrys exhaust ,and also it can be quicker than useing
the lorrys own compressor system.
Mackem:
dave:
DoYouMeanMe?:
What is the problem with cement in a tipper tank?there isnt a problem as such using a tipper tank for cement (we used to have them) , but the main reasons they are,nt used for cement is the weight .
a tipper tank is at a guess 1.5 to 3 ton heavier than a belly tank (no chassis) and the cement game is all about tonnage delivered.
also a tipper tank has to be unloaded like any other tipper, ie) tractor and trailer in a straight line, which can be impossible to do in certain yards.also some customers do no allow tipper tanks on there sites .Why do Castle Cement have donkeys on their tanks if they’re so bothered about weight ? Surely a chassis based blower would be lighter - could get 30t on a belly tank with one of these (more if you’d bought a lighter unit).
thats a good question,
but there are pros and cons with both systems and i guess its just down to company personal choice.
firstly though 99% of sites we go to dont have there own compressors and if they did that means them spending more money on installation, and maintenance and not us.
other reasons are that a donkey engine is much quieter than an onboard blower (more insulation in that big plastic cover) although onboard blowers are getting quieter, and of course i suppose over the average lifespan of the trailer blowing with a donkey running on red diesel will work out cheaper in fuel costs than an onboard blower running on white diesel.
another reason i can think of though is the safety aspect.
onboard blowers requires a engine running pto to drive it.
so whilst unlikely to happen but theres still the chance i suppose, you could be at the back unloading and some oik decides to pinch your stuff or the truck . and duely drives off and leaves you getting covered in the stuff. (as i said unlikely but atleast with a donkey the cab can be locked and the truck engine turned off.)
but in reallity though this cant be the main reason as some of our subbies use onboard blowers.
so then i presume its back to the weight question.
we can get 29.90 tons on ours with the donkey engine which isnt a bad payload.now if the company wanted that little bit more then all they would have to do is to spec alcoa rims on the tractors aswell. they wont of course and the reason for this is (they are tight gits , only joking) is i presume simply because we are an own account company. these trucks dont have to make a profit as such and the profit is in the cement sold. i can only presume that a customer will pay a set charge for delivery irrespective of whether he orders 10 ton or 30 ton.
now the sub contractors on the other hand are usually paid by the mile and by the tons delivered and for them weight is everything.
but still even after all that it probably still boils down to the personal choice of the fleet manager.
theres also another reason that ive just thought of, and that is this,
our company leases all its trucks (around 200) on a 4 year lease and owns the trailers whos life span is probably 12 years.
because the trailers already have the donkeys then you would,nt pay more to lease a truck with its own blower