Interesting reading

[franglais]

eagerbeaver:
I was listening to Vine on R2 for a bit today, it turns out that Corbyn has basically ’ threatened ’ the banks if he gets in

As if the financial situation is not precarious enough, this clown threatens even more instability! We have a fantastic ability in this country to try and sabotage ourselves. We don’t need to worry about any enemies, we seem to be our own worst

So you think the £21millon boss of Morgan Stanley needs protection from Corbyn? The Merchant Bankers are worried because they’re being threatened with rules designed to prevent off shore banking and profiteering? Someone says they’re not very nice people (these are the people who invest in undercutting, wage slashing multinationals) and you think he should be stopped?
I’m not sure Corbyn is what we need but reckon the bosses of the banks don’t have MY or YOUR best interests at heart. If they’re worried. . Good.
Instability?
Easy to solve. Just do away with referendums and elections. Worked in the USSR for decades, China and Cuba are pretty stable.

[emoji53] be careful what you wish for !

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

[muckles]

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:
But really Brexit doesn’t have a precedence, so nobody really knows what will happen,

As for me I’m concerned what the outcome will be, as I also don’t like uncertainty.

Why is the the less than 50 years we’ve been part of the EU considered a ‘precedent’ but the hundreds of years that we haven’t isn’t ?.

What was supposedly so bad about all the economic figures which matter like the national debt and economic growth and resulting employment levels,in 1972.As opposed to the same figures for 1973 to date.Not surprising as we weren’t paying billions into the EU budget,for the privilege of being a net importer of EU goods and services up to 1972.

Uncertainty more like remainer bs.

When I said unprecedented I meant leaving the EU, I believe only the Faroe Islands has left the EU before and that can hardly be used as an equivalent example, and you keep going on about the 1970s and 1960’s well the World in a very different place, markets we had in the 60’s have gone and they’re not going to reappear overnight, just because we’ve left the EU. The type of industry this country had in the 60’s has gone and it won’t come back overnight, if ever. Unlike you I don’t have this pair of rose tinted spectacles, I don’t think that suddenly we’ll have Morris cars starting up again and fleets of AEC’s taking to our streets.

We are leaving the EU and moving into a very different place than when we joined, that means we are moving into new territory, I personally hope we succeed, but it will be new it won’t be going back to pre EEC days, but like anyting new there will be uncertainties, although I doubt you’ve ever tried anything new in your life.

Oh wait.Let’s go with the remainers.It’s so much better to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU and keep throwing cash at the foreign aid scam in the form of net contributions while imposing austerity at home.Not to mention having absolutely zero electoral control over the government process.

Yes we know our manufacturing export markets have now mostly become manufacturers themselves and no longer need our exports.While the EU was always a case of us buying more from them than they bought from us.Except for depleting our oil and fish stock reserves of course.Staying with the EU fixes that how.

How can saying we’re going into new territory and this will lead to uncertainty, have anything to do with the ■■■■■■■■ you’ve posted above?

Carryfast:
As opposed to opting out of the global free market economy and replacing those imports and resulting unsustainable trade deficit with domestic industry.The fact is if we don’t do that we sink either way.Except we’ll still sink a lot slower and stand a lot more chance of staying afloat without the financial noose and foreign government of the EU tied around our necks and we stand a lot more chance of rebuilding our manufacturing base without an economy being run in the interests of bleedin Germany.The key point being that our domestic market was always worth more to us than the European one from the time we joined.Which is the definition of a trade deficit situation.While also destroying the bs remainer arguments that the single EU market is essential to us when the fact is it’s just a deficit situation liability let alone us sacrificing our nation’s sovereignty and paying for the privilege.

If you believe the UK is opting out of the Global Free Market, you are going to be sorely disappointed, but I’m sure you’re used to that feeling of disappointment in your life.
Even the Nigel Farage and the hard-line Brexiters in the Conservative party aren’t interested in that, in fact they want more of it not less, let alone the neo-liberal bunch that run this Country and the rest of the Developed World.
Changing the present economic system will require revolution, the complete overturning of the establishment, not just leaving a trading area.

[eagerbeaver]

Franglais:

eagerbeaver:
I was listening to Vine on R2 for a bit today, it turns out that Corbyn has basically ’ threatened ’ the banks if he gets in

As if the financial situation is not precarious enough, this clown threatens even more instability! We have a fantastic ability in this country to try and sabotage ourselves. We don’t need to worry about any enemies, we seem to be our own worst

So you think the £21millon boss of Morgan Stanley needs protection from Corbyn? The Merchant Bankers are worried because they’re being threatened with rules designed to prevent off shore banking and profiteering? Someone says they’re not very nice people (these are the people who invest in undercutting, wage slashing multinationals) and you think he should be stopped?
I’m not sure Corbyn is what we need but reckon the bosses of the banks don’t have MY or YOUR best interests at heart. If they’re worried. . Good.
Instability?
Easy to solve. Just do away with referendums and elections. Worked in the USSR for decades, China and Cuba are pretty stable.

[emoji53] be careful what you wish for !

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

Good points well made. I am not stupid enough to believe that ANY institution gives a crap about my welfare French one, I am also acutely aware of how rotten to the core our political and financial institutions are.

The old boys club in an ideal world needs dismantling to even try to get anywhere. When bosses of major companies/banks and political leaders go to the same schools and colleges, it makes it almost impossible

I don’t petend to be an economist or remotely knowldegeable enough to get involved with the nuts and bolts of the economy, however I refuse to believe that change cannot or will not happen. The freedom of information system has helped to expose SOME of the financial corruption that goes on, but a lot more needs to happen.

I also found the figures involved from this ’ one office room in Mayfair ’ that Vine mentioned, almost unbelievable. Billions…

[franglais]

eagerbeaver:

Franglais:

eagerbeaver:
I was listening to Vine on R2 for a bit today, it turns out that Corbyn has basically ’ threatened ’ the banks if he gets in

As if the financial situation is not precarious enough, this clown threatens even more instability! We have a fantastic ability in this country to try and sabotage ourselves. We don’t need to worry about any enemies, we seem to be our own worst

So you think the £21millon boss of Morgan Stanley needs protection from Corbyn? The Merchant Bankers are worried because they’re being threatened with rules designed to prevent off shore banking and profiteering? Someone says they’re not very nice people (these are the people who invest in undercutting, wage slashing multinationals) and you think he should be stopped?
I’m not sure Corbyn is what we need but reckon the bosses of the banks don’t have MY or YOUR best interests at heart. If they’re worried. . Good.
Instability?
Easy to solve. Just do away with referendums and elections. Worked in the USSR for decades, China and Cuba are pretty stable.

[emoji53] be careful what you wish for !

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

Good points well made. I am not stupid enough to believe that ANY institution gives a crap about my welfare French one, I am also acutely aware of how rotten to the core our political and financial institutions are.

The old boys club in an ideal world needs dismantling to even try to get anywhere. When bosses of major companies/banks and political leaders go to the same schools and colleges, it makes it almost impossible

I don’t petend to be an economist or remotely knowldegeable enough to get involved with the nuts and bolts of the economy, however I refuse to believe that change cannot or will not happen. The freedom of information system has helped to expose SOME of the financial corruption that goes on, but a lot more needs to happen.

I also found the figures involved from this ’ one office room in Mayfair ’ that Vine mentioned, almost unbelievable. Billions…

You sound fairly fed up with the system as well .

Are you off to the recruiting office this afternoon? I reckon on getting a few beers… sorry vin rouge, down my neck then I`m gonna sign up too.

Oh, thats the recruiting office Muckles is setting up for the mechanised transport arm of the secret revolutionary army. Cant tell you the address though, for obvious reasons.

And no need to bring your digi card. We won`t be using them!
Gotta keep them clean for work next week as normal.

[muckles]

Franglais:

eagerbeaver:

Franglais:
So you think the £21millon boss of Morgan Stanley needs protection from Corbyn? The Merchant Bankers are worried because they’re being threatened with rules designed to prevent off shore banking and profiteering? Someone says they’re not very nice people (these are the people who invest in undercutting, wage slashing multinationals) and you think he should be stopped?
I’m not sure Corbyn is what we need but reckon the bosses of the banks don’t have MY or YOUR best interests at heart. If they’re worried. . Good.
Instability?
Easy to solve. Just do away with referendums and elections. Worked in the USSR for decades, China and Cuba are pretty stable.

[emoji53] be careful what you wish for !

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

Good points well made. I am not stupid enough to believe that ANY institution gives a crap about my welfare French one, I am also acutely aware of how rotten to the core our political and financial institutions are.

The old boys club in an ideal world needs dismantling to even try to get anywhere. When bosses of major companies/banks and political leaders go to the same schools and colleges, it makes it almost impossible

I don’t petend to be an economist or remotely knowldegeable enough to get involved with the nuts and bolts of the economy, however I refuse to believe that change cannot or will not happen. The freedom of information system has helped to expose SOME of the financial corruption that goes on, but a lot more needs to happen.

I also found the figures involved from this ’ one office room in Mayfair ’ that Vine mentioned, almost unbelievable. Billions…

You sound fairly fed up with the system as well .

Are you off to the recruiting office this afternoon? I reckon on getting a few beers… sorry vin rouge, down my neck then I`m gonna sign up too.

Oh, thats the recruiting office Muckles is setting up for the mechanised transport arm of the secret revolutionary army. Cant tell you the address though, for obvious reasons.

And no need to bring your digi card. We won`t be using them!
Gotta keep them clean for work next week as normal.

I hope it’s a good turn out, I’ve just put in a bulk order for Berets and overalls.

[carryfast]

muckles:

Carryfast:
Oh wait.Let’s go with the remainers.It’s so much better to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU and keep throwing cash at the foreign aid scam in the form of net contributions while imposing austerity at home.Not to mention having absolutely zero electoral control over the government process.

Yes we know our manufacturing export markets have now mostly become manufacturers themselves and no longer need our exports.While the EU was always a case of us buying more from them than they bought from us.Except for depleting our oil and fish stock reserves of course.Staying with the EU fixes that how.

How can saying we’re going into new territory and this will lead to uncertainty, have anything to do with the ■■■■■■■■ you’ve posted above?

Carryfast:
As opposed to opting out of the global free market economy and replacing those imports and resulting unsustainable trade deficit with domestic industry.The fact is if we don’t do that we sink either way.Except we’ll still sink a lot slower and stand a lot more chance of staying afloat without the financial noose and foreign government of the EU tied around our necks and we stand a lot more chance of rebuilding our manufacturing base without an economy being run in the interests of bleedin Germany.The key point being that our domestic market was always worth more to us than the European one from the time we joined.Which is the definition of a trade deficit situation.While also destroying the bs remainer arguments that the single EU market is essential to us when the fact is it’s just a deficit situation liability let alone us sacrificing our nation’s sovereignty and paying for the privilege.

If you believe the UK is opting out of the Global Free Market, you are going to be sorely disappointed, but I’m sure you’re used to that feeling of disappointment in your life.
Even the Nigel Farage and the hard-line Brexiters in the Conservative party aren’t interested in that, in fact they want more of it not less, let alone the neo-liberal bunch that run this Country and the rest of the Developed World.
Changing the present economic system will require revolution, the complete overturning of the establishment, not just leaving a trading area.

Firstly like Rjan you seem to conveniently miss the point that neo Cons don’t have the monopoly on a Brexit agenda there are also still real Labour people like Kate Hoey around in that regard.The difference being that a real Labour government would have the power to do something in Brexit Britain as opposed to now with the establishment elites among the EU commission ruling the country in which case we don’t even get that choice if we remain.

As for whether we stay with the global free market or not.We’re obviously in a much worse situation in the case of remaining thereby adding our EU trade deficit to our far Eastern one and paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of that and being ruled by zb Juncker and Merkel.

[muckles]

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:
Oh wait.Let’s go with the remainers.It’s so much better to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU and keep throwing cash at the foreign aid scam in the form of net contributions while imposing austerity at home.Not to mention having absolutely zero electoral control over the government process.

Yes we know our manufacturing export markets have now mostly become manufacturers themselves and no longer need our exports.While the EU was always a case of us buying more from them than they bought from us.Except for depleting our oil and fish stock reserves of course.Staying with the EU fixes that how.

How can saying we’re going into new territory and this will lead to uncertainty, have anything to do with the ■■■■■■■■ you’ve posted above?

Carryfast:
As opposed to opting out of the global free market economy and replacing those imports and resulting unsustainable trade deficit with domestic industry.The fact is if we don’t do that we sink either way.Except we’ll still sink a lot slower and stand a lot more chance of staying afloat without the financial noose and foreign government of the EU tied around our necks and we stand a lot more chance of rebuilding our manufacturing base without an economy being run in the interests of bleedin Germany.The key point being that our domestic market was always worth more to us than the European one from the time we joined.Which is the definition of a trade deficit situation.While also destroying the bs remainer arguments that the single EU market is essential to us when the fact is it’s just a deficit situation liability let alone us sacrificing our nation’s sovereignty and paying for the privilege.

If you believe the UK is opting out of the Global Free Market, you are going to be sorely disappointed, but I’m sure you’re used to that feeling of disappointment in your life.
Even the Nigel Farage and the hard-line Brexiters in the Conservative party aren’t interested in that, in fact they want more of it not less, let alone the neo-liberal bunch that run this Country and the rest of the Developed World.
Changing the present economic system will require revolution, the complete overturning of the establishment, not just leaving a trading area.

Firstly like Rjan you seem to conveniently miss the point that neo Cons don’t have the monopoly on a Brexit agenda there are also still real Labour people like Kate Hoey around in that regard.The difference being that a real Labour government would have the power to do something in Brexit Britain as opposed to now with the establishment elites among the EU commission ruling the country in which case we don’t even get that choice if we remain.

I’m quite well aware of the Left wing case for leaving the EU, it was part of the Labour manifesto in the 80’s, but Brexit isn’t being driven by the Left wing agenda, it’s been driven by the Globalist Free market Conservative agenda and there is no way that they won’t it messed up by a Left wing agenda.

We don’t have a Left wing Labour government in power, so they can’t push a left wing case even if they choose to; they’re as divided as the Conservatives over this.

Also our media will never promote the left wing case for it, because those on the Conservative part of the media won’t promote a case where their opposition has the same policy as they have, as it will open up a Pandora’s box of questions about how little globalisation has benefited ordinary people. Wage growth in real terms for most workers has been stagnant for decades in many of the developed countries, over 40 years in the US and 20 years in Germany and Japan, but the weath of the Worlds richest people have increased.

The more left wing leaning media, (but not proper left wing) won’t make the left wing case for leaving the EU, as they are pro EU and they don’t want their readers seeing a case they might support for leaving the EU, they’ve all been very vocal about what a UK trade agreement with the US might mean but very quiet about CETA and the EU wanting to restart TTIP negotiations, which will probably have a similar deal to a UK/US trade agreement.

The only place you’ll see a Left wing case is in the Morning Star and Socialist Worker.
So like it or not, we have a Brexit driven by the Globalist Free market, de-regulation agenda.

Carryfast:
As for whether we stay with the global free market or not.We’re obviously in a much worse situation in the case of remaining thereby adding our EU trade deficit to our far Eastern one and paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of that and being ruled by zb Juncker and Merkel.

How do we know, we’re going into a very different World than we were in before we joined?
The media like to call it a divorce so we’ll use that analogy, so like a newly divorced person going it alone after a long marriage, it will take time to build a new life and it can go either way, we will either get out and make a new life and have great ■■■, or sit at home with loads of cats, loads of pills and a bottle of whiskey, crying about where it went so wrong. Lets hope it’s the former.

[carryfast]

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:
Oh wait.Let’s go with the remainers.It’s so much better to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU and keep throwing cash at the foreign aid scam in the form of net contributions while imposing austerity at home.Not to mention having absolutely zero electoral control over the government process.

Yes we know our manufacturing export markets have now mostly become manufacturers themselves and no longer need our exports.While the EU was always a case of us buying more from them than they bought from us.Except for depleting our oil and fish stock reserves of course.Staying with the EU fixes that how.

How can saying we’re going into new territory and this will lead to uncertainty, have anything to do with the ■■■■■■■■ you’ve posted above?

Carryfast:
As opposed to opting out of the global free market economy and replacing those imports and resulting unsustainable trade deficit with domestic industry.The fact is if we don’t do that we sink either way.Except we’ll still sink a lot slower and stand a lot more chance of staying afloat without the financial noose and foreign government of the EU tied around our necks and we stand a lot more chance of rebuilding our manufacturing base without an economy being run in the interests of bleedin Germany.The key point being that our domestic market was always worth more to us than the European one from the time we joined.Which is the definition of a trade deficit situation.While also destroying the bs remainer arguments that the single EU market is essential to us when the fact is it’s just a deficit situation liability let alone us sacrificing our nation’s sovereignty and paying for the privilege.

If you believe the UK is opting out of the Global Free Market, you are going to be sorely disappointed, but I’m sure you’re used to that feeling of disappointment in your life.
Even the Nigel Farage and the hard-line Brexiters in the Conservative party aren’t interested in that, in fact they want more of it not less, let alone the neo-liberal bunch that run this Country and the rest of the Developed World.
Changing the present economic system will require revolution, the complete overturning of the establishment, not just leaving a trading area.

Firstly like Rjan you seem to conveniently miss the point that neo Cons don’t have the monopoly on a Brexit agenda there are also still real Labour people like Kate Hoey around in that regard.The difference being that a real Labour government would have the power to do something in Brexit Britain as opposed to now with the establishment elites among the EU commission ruling the country in which case we don’t even get that choice if we remain.

I’m quite well aware of the Left wing case for leaving the EU, it was part of the Labour manifesto in the 80’s, but Brexit isn’t being driven by the Left wing agenda, it’s been driven by the Globalist Free market Conservative agenda and there is no way that they won’t it messed up by a Left wing agenda.

We don’t have a Left wing Labour government in power, so they can’t push a left wing case even if they choose to; they’re as divided as the Conservatives over this.

Also our media will never promote the left wing case for it, because those on the Conservative part of the media won’t promote a case where their opposition has the same policy as they have, as it will open up a Pandora’s box of questions about how little globalisation has benefited ordinary people. Wage growth in real terms for most workers has been stagnant for decades in many of the developed countries, over 40 years in the US and 20 years in Germany and Japan, but the weath of the Worlds richest people have increased.

The more left wing leaning media, (but not proper left wing) won’t make the left wing case for leaving the EU, as they are pro EU and they don’t want their readers seeing a case they might support for leaving the EU, they’ve all been very vocal about what a UK trade agreement with the US might mean but very quiet about CETA and the EU wanting to restart TTIP negotiations, which will probably have a similar deal to a UK/US trade agreement.

The only place you’ll see a Left wing case is in the Morning Star and Socialist Worker.
So like it or not, we have a Brexit driven by the Globalist Free market, de-regulation agenda.

Carryfast:
As for whether we stay with the global free market or not.We’re obviously in a much worse situation in the case of remaining thereby adding our EU trade deficit to our far Eastern one and paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of that and being ruled by zb Juncker and Merkel.

How do we know, we’re going into a very different World than we were in before we joined?
The media like to call it a divorce so we’ll use that analogy, so like a newly divorced person going it alone after a long marriage, it will take time to build a new life and it can go either way, we will either get out and make a new life and have great ■■■, or sit at home with loads of cats, loads of pills and a bottle of whiskey, crying about where it went so wrong. Lets hope it’s the former.

If Brexit was being being driven by the neo Cons then how do you explain people like Hoey and John Boyd happily sharing the agenda with David Davis in the GO movement.Or for that matter the fact that that the majority of the Leave vote is made up of real Labour supporters like me as opposed to the remainers among the Cons and Blairites.In which case the remainers have got a bleedin nerve accusing Brexiteers of being neo Cons when the remain side has people like Cameron,Osborne,the CBI and Blair on its side in addition to the banker establishment elites.

As for the idea of secession and national sovereignty v foreign federal rule having any connection whatsoever with marriage that’s as ridiculous as all the other pro EU propaganda.IE there’s a big difference between a mistaken marriage and divorce among couples v the choice between taking our own country back.As opposed to giving it up to be a state of a USE run in the interests of German bankers.

[muckles]

Carryfast:
Firstly like Rjan you seem to conveniently miss the point that neo Cons don’t have the monopoly on a Brexit agenda there are also still real Labour people like Kate Hoey around in that regard.The difference being that a real Labour government would have the power to do something in Brexit Britain as opposed to now with the establishment elites among the EU commission ruling the country in which case we don’t even get that choice if we remain.

muckles:
I’m quite well aware of the Left wing case for leaving the EU, it was part of the Labour manifesto in the 80’s, but Brexit isn’t being driven by the Left wing agenda, it’s been driven by the Globalist Free market Conservative agenda and there is no way that they won’t it messed up by a Left wing agenda.

We don’t have a Left wing Labour government in power, so they can’t push a left wing case even if they choose to; they’re as divided as the Conservatives over this.

Also our media will never promote the left wing case for it, because those on the Conservative part of the media won’t promote a case where their opposition has the same policy as they have, as it will open up a Pandora’s box of questions about how little globalisation has benefited ordinary people. Wage growth in real terms for most workers has been stagnant for decades in many of the developed countries, over 40 years in the US and 20 years in Germany and Japan, but the weath of the Worlds richest people have increased.

The more left wing leaning media, (but not proper left wing) won’t make the left wing case for leaving the EU, as they are pro EU and they don’t want their readers seeing a case they might support for leaving the EU, they’ve all been very vocal about what a UK trade agreement with the US might mean but very quiet about CETA and the EU wanting to restart TTIP negotiations, which will probably have a similar deal to a UK/US trade agreement.

The only place you’ll see a Left wing case is in the Morning Star and Socialist Worker.
So like it or not, we have a Brexit driven by the Globalist Free market, de-regulation agenda.

Carryfast:
As for whether we stay with the global free market or not.We’re obviously in a much worse situation in the case of remaining thereby adding our EU trade deficit to our far Eastern one and paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of that and being ruled by zb Juncker and Merkel.

muckles:
How do we know, we’re going into a very different World than we were in before we joined?
The media like to call it a divorce so we’ll use that analogy, so like a newly divorced person going it alone after a long marriage, it will take time to build a new life and it can go either way, we will either get out and make a new life and have great ■■■, or sit at home with loads of cats, loads of pills and a bottle of whiskey, crying about where it went so wrong. Lets hope it’s the former.

Carryfast:
If Brexit was being being driven by the neo Cons then how do you explain people like Hoey and John Boyd happily sharing the agenda with David Davis in the GO movement.Or for that matter the fact that that the majority of the Leave vote is made up of real Labour supporters like me as opposed to the remainers among the Cons and Blairites.In which case the remainers have got a bleedin nerve accusing Brexiteers of being neo Cons when the remain side has people like Cameron,Osborne,the CBI and Blair on its side in addition to the banker establishment elites.

As for the idea of secession and national sovereignty v foreign federal rule having any connection whatsoever with marriage that’s as ridiculous as all the other pro EU propaganda.IE there’s a big difference between a mistaken marriage and divorce among couples v the choice between taking our own country back.As opposed to giving it up to be a state of a USE run in the interests of German bankers.

The leave campaign might have had the Left wing join it, but most of the media was more interested in concentrating on the likes of Farage and Johnson, than Hoey and Boyd, as it suited their agenda, whether that was for Leave or Remain.

Yes many leave voters were from traditionally Labour parts, even though many in the Labour party refused to recognise it and even resorted to insults, calling them xenophobic and showed how out of touch they were with their core supporters and the reasons why they voted for leave.

But where is the Left wing view now in the leave negotiations? Where is the reporting of the Left wing view in the mainstream media? Why is the talk of getting trade deals with other countries once we’ve left the EU.

Ok so you don’t like the marriage analogy, and you are totally convinced that everything will be hunky dory once we’ve left, I admire your confidence, but some of us want more information about what happens after we leave, how it will affect our working lives, which in my case is mostly spent travelling around Europe.

[carryfast]

muckles:
The leave campaign might have had the Left wing join it, but most of the media was more interested in concentrating on the likes of Farage and Johnson, than Hoey and Boyd, as it suited their agenda, whether that was for Leave or Remain.

Yes many leave voters were from traditionally Labour parts, even though many in the Labour party refused to recognise it and even resorted to insults, calling them xenophobic and showed how out of touch they were with their core supporters and the reasons why they voted for leave.

But where is the Left wing view now in the leave negotiations? Where is the reporting of the Left wing view in the mainstream media? Why is the talk of getting trade deals with other countries once we’ve left the EU.

Ok so you don’t like the marriage analogy, and you are totally convinced that everything will be hunky dory once we’ve left, I admire your confidence, but some of us want more information about what happens after we leave, how it will affect our working lives, which in my case is mostly spent travelling around Europe.

If you’re saying that you think that the EU will meet secession from it with not only trade sanctions but also refusal to acknowledge the rights of passage provided by a UK passport,then surely you wouldn’t want to appease what is effectively an act of war,by submission to such blackmail ?.If that’s not what you’re suggesting then what are you actually worried about.While as it stands we’d actually benefit from a trade war with the EU.While why should you think that the interests of the few here who might benefit from our trade deficit situation and net contributor status should outweigh those of the many who don’t ?.Not to mention the principle of appeasing the blackmail of us handing over cash and sovereignty in exchange for trade with that trade itself being a disadvantageous deficit situation anyway.

As for the so called media non reporting of the so called left side of the Brexit vote.That’s obvious in that the establishment media are actually biased in favour of,if not also controlled by,the same old alliance of cross Party Europhile Federalists like Corbyn/Cable/Sturgeon/May/Blair etc and their banker and CBI cronies now just as they were in the case of Wilson/Callaghan/Heath/Thatcher etc in 1975.Probably even moreso in totally ignoring people like Hoey and David Davis now etc as opposed to its exposure given to Benn,Shore,Heffer and Powell then.Don’t see Hoey and Corbyn going head to head on mainstream TV for example for some reason.The fact is it’s doubtful that May has the slightest intention of delivering Brexit with everything she’s done being a charade and the media and the remainers know it which is why they refuse to concede.

youtube.com/watch?v=_zBFh6bpcMo

[manalishi]

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:
But really Brexit doesn’t have a precedence, so nobody really knows what will happen,

As for me I’m concerned what the outcome will be, as I also don’t like uncertainty.

Why is the the less than 50 years we’ve been part of the EU considered a ‘precedent’ but the hundreds of years that we haven’t isn’t ?.

What was supposedly so bad about all the economic figures which matter like the national debt and economic growth and resulting employment levels,in 1972.As opposed to the same figures for 1973 to date.Not surprising as we weren’t paying billions into the EU budget,for the privilege of being a net importer of EU goods and services up to 1972.

Uncertainty more like remainer bs.

When I said unprecedented I meant leaving the EU, I believe only the Faroe Islands has left the EU before and that can hardly be used as an equivalent example, and you keep going on about the 1970s and 1960’s well the World in a very different place, markets we had in the 60’s have gone and they’re not going to reappear overnight, just because we’ve left the EU. The type of industry this country had in the 60’s has gone and it won’t come back overnight, if ever. Unlike you I don’t have this pair of rose tinted spectacles, I don’t think that suddenly we’ll have Morris cars starting up again and fleets of AEC’s taking to our streets.

We are leaving the EU and moving into a very different place than when we joined, that means we are moving into new territory, I personally hope we succeed, but it will be new it won’t be going back to pre EEC days, but like anyting new there will be uncertainties, although I doubt you’ve ever tried anything new in your life.

Oh wait.Let’s go with the remainers.It’s so much better to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU and keep throwing cash at the foreign aid scam in the form of net contributions while imposing austerity at home.Not to mention having absolutely zero electoral control over the government process.

Yes we know our manufacturing export markets have now mostly become manufacturers themselves and no longer need our exports.While the EU was always a case of us buying more from them than they bought from us.Except for depleting our oil and fish stock reserves of course.Staying with the EU fixes that how.

As opposed to opting out of the global free market economy and replacing those imports and resulting unsustainable trade deficit with domestic industry.The fact is if we don’t do that we sink either way.Except we’ll still sink a lot slower and stand a lot more chance of staying afloat without the financial noose and foreign government of the EU tied around our necks and we stand a lot more chance of rebuilding our manufacturing base without an economy being run in the interests of bleedin Germany.The key point being that our domestic market was always worth more to us than the European one from the time we joined.Which is the definition of a trade deficit situation.While also destroying the bs remainer arguments that the single EU market is essential to us when the fact is it’s just a deficit situation liability let alone us sacrificing our nation’s sovereignty and paying for the privilege.

Not to hijack this fine dialectic but i reckon theres a case for the uk to join a paralell power block with our Viking ancestors in Scandinavia.That would be interesting as a concept and Brussels can just go swivel.

[manalishi]

eagerbeaver:

Franglais:

eagerbeaver:
I was listening to Vine on R2 for a bit today, it turns out that Corbyn has basically ’ threatened ’ the banks if he gets in

As if the financial situation is not precarious enough, this clown threatens even more instability! We have a fantastic ability in this country to try and sabotage ourselves. We don’t need to worry about any enemies, we seem to be our own worst

So you think the £21millon boss of Morgan Stanley needs protection from Corbyn? The Merchant Bankers are worried because they’re being threatened with rules designed to prevent off shore banking and profiteering? Someone says they’re not very nice people (these are the people who invest in undercutting, wage slashing multinationals) and you think he should be stopped?
I’m not sure Corbyn is what we need but reckon the bosses of the banks don’t have MY or YOUR best interests at heart. If they’re worried. . Good.
Instability?
Easy to solve. Just do away with referendums and elections. Worked in the USSR for decades, China and Cuba are pretty stable.

[emoji53] be careful what you wish for !

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

Good points well made. I am not stupid enough to believe that ANY institution gives a crap about my welfare French one, I am also acutely aware of how rotten to the core our political and financial institutions are.

The old boys club in an ideal world needs dismantling to even try to get anywhere. When bosses of major companies/banks and political leaders go to the same schools and colleges, it makes it almost impossible

I don’t petend to be an economist or remotely knowldegeable enough to get involved with the nuts and bolts of the economy, however I refuse to believe that change cannot or will not happen. The freedom of information system has helped to expose SOME of the financial corruption that goes on, but a lot more needs to happen.

I also found the figures involved from this ’ one office room in Mayfair ’ that Vine mentioned, almost unbelievable. Billions…

If you want a serious economic education,economics is deliberately an ambiguous science designed to obscure the shady practicies of fractional reserve lending that’s had humanity by the balls since biblical times.John Hamers new book-Behind The Curtain is a good place to start.A work of genius.Economists like the Observers inpenetrable Will Hutton are the masters of convincing folk that markets subscribe to some kind of natural dynamic when in fact it’s all a B.I.S engineered chicanery based on simple tweaks to supply and contraction principles,brutally effective in their simplicity.The likes of system server Hutton tend never to go hungry.

[muckles]

Carryfast:

muckles:
The leave campaign might have had the Left wing join it, but most of the media was more interested in concentrating on the likes of Farage and Johnson, than Hoey and Boyd, as it suited their agenda, whether that was for Leave or Remain.

Yes many leave voters were from traditionally Labour parts, even though many in the Labour party refused to recognise it and even resorted to insults, calling them xenophobic and showed how out of touch they were with their core supporters and the reasons why they voted for leave.

But where is the Left wing view now in the leave negotiations? Where is the reporting of the Left wing view in the mainstream media? Why is the talk of getting trade deals with other countries once we’ve left the EU.

Ok so you don’t like the marriage analogy, and you are totally convinced that everything will be hunky dory once we’ve left, I admire your confidence, but some of us want more information about what happens after we leave, how it will affect our working lives, which in my case is mostly spent travelling around Europe.

If you’re saying that you think that the EU will meet secession from it with not only trade sanctions but also refusal to acknowledge the rights of passage provided by a UK passport,then surely you wouldn’t want to appease what is effectively an act of war,by submission to such blackmail ?.If that’s not what you’re suggesting then what are you actually worried about.While as it stands we’d actually benefit from a trade war with the EU.While why should you think that the interests of the few here who might benefit from our trade deficit situation and net contributor status should outweigh those of the many who don’t ?.Not to mention the principle of appeasing the blackmail of us handing over cash and sovereignty in exchange for trade with that trade itself being a disadvantageous deficit situation anyway.

No it’s you that talks about sanctions and trade wars etc. I’m just worried about the basics, nothing to do with trade wars, just what happens when you move goods and people in and out of the EU and customs union, what paperwork will I need? Will there be checks at the ports of exit and entry or will there be an electronic system. Will I need Visa’s to enter the EU?

Or do you think everything will be the same on cross border movements?

Carryfast:
As for the so called media non reporting of the so called left side of the Brexit vote.That’s obvious in that the establishment media are actually biased in favour of,if not also controlled by,the same old alliance of cross Party Europhile Federalists like Corbyn/Cable/Sturgeon/May/Blair etc and their banker and CBI cronies now just as they were in the case of Wilson/Callaghan/Heath/Thatcher etc in 1975.Probably even moreso in totally ignoring people like Hoey and David Davis now etc as opposed to its exposure given to Benn,Shore,Heffer and Powell then.Don’t see Hoey and Corbyn going head to head on mainstream TV for example for some reason.The fact is it’s doubtful that May has the slightest intention of delivering Brexit with everything she’s done being a charade and the media and the remainers know it which is why they refuse to concede.

youtube.com/watch?v=_zBFh6bpcMo

So The Sun, Express and Mail are pro EU?
Very Strange considering their coverage of the campaign and much of their coverage of the EU for the last 30 years, but they will never support a left wing Labour policy, they supported Blair because he moved the Labour party so close to the Conservatives, you could hardly tell the difference.

and that’s the point I’m trying to make, the media didn’t publicise the Left wing case for leaving as it didn’t fit in with their agenda, whether that was Remain or Leave.

You can complain about establishment conspiracies all you like, but the reality is the Left wing case doesn’t get publicised and isn’t being pushed in the exit negotiations and won’t form part of the UK’s post Brexit future, unless we have a major shift of politics in the UK and as your clip proves, we are in a very different World to the 1970’s.

[franglais]

manalishi:
Not to hijack this fine dialectic but i reckon theres a case for the uk to join a paralell power block with our Viking ancestors in Scandinavia.That would be interesting as a concept and Brussels can just go swivel.

So wed import our tomatoes and oranges from Norway instead of from Spain? And look at market size. Weve a population of about 65 m
Eu 350 m
Sweden/Norway/Denmark 21 m
So apart from the availability of goods we need, where is the market for us to sell stuff?

[carryfast]

manalishi:
Not to hijack this fine dialectic but i reckon theres a case for the uk to join a paralell power block with our Viking ancestors in Scandinavia.That would be interesting as a concept and Brussels can just go swivel.

It was always there in the form of EFTA.May in typical remainer style having poured cold water of the invite for us to return to it ASAP.Although it’s been severely weakened by the Norwegians and Swiss capitulating to just about every demand made by Brussels.While if May was really serious about leaving the EU we’d already be well on our way out of it and already having returned to EFTA.Which at that point would have the teeth of our import market which the German economy is massively reliant on as a bargaining chip.Instead of which the treacherous hag is just playing for time so that her remainer allies can derail the process and keep on arguing to overturn the referendum decision.As we’re seeing here.

[carryfast]

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:
The leave campaign might have had the Left wing join it, but most of the media was more interested in concentrating on the likes of Farage and Johnson, than Hoey and Boyd, as it suited their agenda, whether that was for Leave or Remain.

Yes many leave voters were from traditionally Labour parts, even though many in the Labour party refused to recognise it and even resorted to insults, calling them xenophobic and showed how out of touch they were with their core supporters and the reasons why they voted for leave.

But where is the Left wing view now in the leave negotiations? Where is the reporting of the Left wing view in the mainstream media? Why is the talk of getting trade deals with other countries once we’ve left the EU.

Ok so you don’t like the marriage analogy, and you are totally convinced that everything will be hunky dory once we’ve left, I admire your confidence, but some of us want more information about what happens after we leave, how it will affect our working lives, which in my case is mostly spent travelling around Europe.

If you’re saying that you think that the EU will meet secession from it with not only trade sanctions but also refusal to acknowledge the rights of passage provided by a UK passport,then surely you wouldn’t want to appease what is effectively an act of war,by submission to such blackmail ?.If that’s not what you’re suggesting then what are you actually worried about.While as it stands we’d actually benefit from a trade war with the EU.While why should you think that the interests of the few here who might benefit from our trade deficit situation and net contributor status should outweigh those of the many who don’t ?.Not to mention the principle of appeasing the blackmail of us handing over cash and sovereignty in exchange for trade with that trade itself being a disadvantageous deficit situation anyway.

No it’s you that talks about sanctions and trade wars etc. I’m just worried about the basics, nothing to do with trade wars, just what happens when you move goods and people in and out of the EU and customs union, what paperwork will I need? Will there be checks at the ports of exit and entry or will there be an electronic system. Will I need Visa’s to enter the EU?

Or do you think everything will be the same on cross border movements?

Carryfast:
As for the so called media non reporting of the so called left side of the Brexit vote.That’s obvious in that the establishment media are actually biased in favour of,if not also controlled by,the same old alliance of cross Party Europhile Federalists like Corbyn/Cable/Sturgeon/May/Blair etc and their banker and CBI cronies now just as they were in the case of Wilson/Callaghan/Heath/Thatcher etc in 1975.Probably even moreso in totally ignoring people like Hoey and David Davis now etc as opposed to its exposure given to Benn,Shore,Heffer and Powell then.Don’t see Hoey and Corbyn going head to head on mainstream TV for example for some reason.The fact is it’s doubtful that May has the slightest intention of delivering Brexit with everything she’s done being a charade and the media and the remainers know it which is why they refuse to concede.

youtube.com/watch?v=_zBFh6bpcMo

So The Sun, Express and Mail are pro EU?
Very Strange considering their coverage of the campaign and much of their coverage of the EU for the last 30 years, but they will never support a left wing Labour policy, they supported Blair because he moved the Labour party so close to the Conservatives, you could hardly tell the difference.

and that’s the point I’m trying to make, the media didn’t publicise the Left wing case for leaving as it didn’t fit in with their agenda, whether that was Remain or Leave.

You can complain about establishment conspiracies all you like, but the reality is the Left wing case doesn’t get publicised and isn’t being pushed in the exit negotiations and won’t form part of the UK’s post Brexit future, unless we have a major shift of politics in the UK and as your clip proves, we are in a very different World to the 1970’s.

No you’re the one talking about visas being required to cross EU borders as opposed to the Brit passport that worked perfectly well before 1973.So what’s supposedly changed in that regard.As for customs union who cares North America has NAFTA and EFTA is still there while I’m sure that if,as you’re saying, the EU doesn’t want a trade war then what’s wrong with the existing status quo regarding trade.But without any need whatsoever to sacrifice sovereignty or pay the EU anything for the privilege bearing in mind our net importer status with the Federal zb pile.

As for the left case for Brexit that’s no different and is as relevant now as it was in 1975.In which case who cares what the biased media say or want when the idea is the return of sovereignty so that when we actually vote for ‘real’ Labour we get real Labour.Not Bliar’s/Corbyn’s/Cable’s Soviet style version backed up by their EU commissioner,quasi Soviet Socialist and German banker cronies.

While it’s clear that the Cons are the same group of treacherous Federalists on one hand with a minority of half hearted Brexiteers on the other who’ll probably be just as happy to sell us out to China as they’ve been to sell us out to Germany.How does remaining in the EU fix any of that.

[carryfast]

Franglais:

manalishi:
Not to hijack this fine dialectic but i reckon theres a case for the uk to join a paralell power block with our Viking ancestors in Scandinavia.That would be interesting as a concept and Brussels can just go swivel.

So wed import our tomatoes and oranges from Norway instead of from Spain? And look at market size. Weve a population of about 65 m
Eu 350 m
Sweden/Norway/Denmark 21 m
So apart from the availability of goods we need, where is the market for us to sell stuff?

Let’s get this right you’re proposing that the EU puts us under an agricultural produce embargo and close the door to UK exports there.Blimey I thought we are being told that the EU doesn’t want to kick off a trade war just because we’ve told them to stuff their Federal European dream.If only our government would be up for that in the case of our oil and fish reserves and close the door to German manufactured goods and the East Euro transport industry.

While yes there are 350m people in Europe.But the British 65 m are buying a lot more EU products than the EU 350 m are buying British ones.Which sort of blows your bs figures out of the water unless you can somehow magic our trade deficit with Europe into a surplus.IE it’s not the size of the potential market it’s the trade balance figure that matters.No surprise it’s impossible to find any figures regarding our trade balance figures with EFTA in 1970 v the EEC/EU since we joined it.Probably because the former would show an inconvenient surplus unlike the latter.Let alone,unlike the latter,the former not being based on the blackmail of contributions and sovereignty for the privilege.

[munchkin]

“Bearing in mind that the ‘Brexit’ campaign was never intended for implementation by a treacherous remainer in the form of May and her remainer sidekick Hammond it obviously didn’t account for any rip off ‘divorce settlement’.”

“As for a massive bearfaced cynical referendum winning lie.No that was the one which the remainers used in 1975 to sell a ‘Common Market’ to a naive electorate.”

If Brexit wasn’t intended for implementation by the government who did you think would do it, fat bloke down the pub?
A lie is a lie never mind which side of it you’re on.

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[carryfast]

Munchkin:
“Bearing in mind that the ‘Brexit’ campaign was never intended for implementation by a treacherous remainer in the form of May and her remainer sidekick Hammond it obviously didn’t account for any rip off ‘divorce settlement’.”

“As for a massive bearfaced cynical referendum winning lie.No that was the one which the remainers used in 1975 to sell a ‘Common Market’ to a naive electorate.”

If Brexit wasn’t intended for implementation by the government who did you think would do it, fat bloke down the pub?
A lie is a lie never mind which side of it you’re on.

Firstly the statement let’s get our money back and spend ( some of it )on the NHS instead of throwing it at the EU wasn’t a lie.Selling a state of a Federal Europe as a Common Market certainly was.Just as hypocritically trying to distort that statement,just because you want to go on throwing the cash at the EU and keep us in the Federal zb pile instead,is an even bigger lie than the one which you used to get us in to start with.

[munchkin]

Carryfast:

Munchkin:
“Bearing in mind that the ‘Brexit’ campaign was never intended for implementation by a treacherous remainer in the form of May and her remainer sidekick Hammond it obviously didn’t account for any rip off ‘divorce settlement’.”

“As for a massive bearfaced cynical referendum winning lie.No that was the one which the remainers used in 1975 to sell a ‘Common Market’ to a naive electorate.”

If Brexit wasn’t intended for implementation by the government who did you think would do it, fat bloke down the pub?
A lie is a lie never mind which side of it you’re on.

Firstly the statement let’s get our money back and spend ( some of it )on the NHS instead of throwing it at the EU wasn’t a lie.Selling a state of a Federal Europe as a Common Market certainly was.Just as hypocritically trying to distort that statement,just because you want to go on throwing the cash at the EU and keep us in the Federal zb pile instead,is an even bigger lie than the one which you used to get us in to start with.

Well I didn’t tell any lies to get us into the Common Market, I was 11! At the time it was what it was, a trading block to counter the U.S.
As the saying goes you know when politicians lie, you can see their lips move.

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