Mazzer2:
Probably lost you on Trump because left leaning papers didn’t give credit where credit was due for the agreement the US government brokered between Albania and Macedonia, a small dispute but as with most things in the Balkans had the potential to grow into something more serious.
On unilateral decisions you talk about the immigration policy changes did Germany consult anyone on it’s decision to open Europe’s borders or on it’s unilateral trade deal on Nordstream, an action that has potential consequences for Poland’s energy security and even worse ones for the Ukraine.
Can you show where the changes going to come from to try and rectify these problems? Covid showed how far apart Europe is when it comes to support for the poorer nations.
As I said initially there is no stomach in the EU for radical change that will improve the economies of the poorer nations, the treatment of countries like Greece in the financial crisis showed how Europe operates. Banks in Ireland and Greece went bust but no consequences for the banks that lent them the money in the main German banks, they were warned that the lending to Greece was unsustainable. If I lend money to someone who has no means to repay it then it is my loss but if a German bank makes the same mistake then the rules are different.
On immigration because it suits the bigger countries a majority decision is ok but on other matters it has to be unanimous decision not hard to see why the likes of Poland and Hungary are upset, personally I don’t agree with the hypocritical decision of these countries happy to export their own people yet won’t accept others but it a decision their governments have come to and seems to be backed by their people.
As happens on TNUK this is a wandering thread.
If you want to talk about Trump`s success in the Albania / Macedonia issue*, and maybe his less successful actions in North-Korea, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, China, Russia, then carry on. And claiming any action as a success or failure in international relations needs a few years to pass first?
The German banks were not a paragon of virtue ten or twenty years ago. Neither were UK, US or other banks. Equating bad practice with uniquely EU policy is not valid.
*It did make me laugh: Trump helped broker a deal with better travel and trade between the two countries!
That is how peace is made and sustained…
Did anyone mention the war?
Is it a coincidence that western Europe has had an unprecedented period of peace since it started trading freely?
I’m just apathetic to it all now. I have an opinion, I keep it to myself generally, but I’m hoping that leavers are right and then it will be great for all of us right? If they’re wrong though… at least we can all eat langoustines and herring to see us through.
Mazzer2:
Probably lost you on Trump because left leaning papers didn’t give credit where credit was due for the agreement the US government brokered between Albania and Macedonia, a small dispute but as with most things in the Balkans had the potential to grow into something more serious.
On unilateral decisions you talk about the immigration policy changes did Germany consult anyone on it’s decision to open Europe’s borders or on it’s unilateral trade deal on Nordstream, an action that has potential consequences for Poland’s energy security and even worse ones for the Ukraine.
Can you show where the changes going to come from to try and rectify these problems? Covid showed how far apart Europe is when it comes to support for the poorer nations.
As I said initially there is no stomach in the EU for radical change that will improve the economies of the poorer nations, the treatment of countries like Greece in the financial crisis showed how Europe operates. Banks in Ireland and Greece went bust but no consequences for the banks that lent them the money in the main German banks, they were warned that the lending to Greece was unsustainable. If I lend money to someone who has no means to repay it then it is my loss but if a German bank makes the same mistake then the rules are different.
On immigration because it suits the bigger countries a majority decision is ok but on other matters it has to be unanimous decision not hard to see why the likes of Poland and Hungary are upset, personally I don’t agree with the hypocritical decision of these countries happy to export their own people yet won’t accept others but it a decision their governments have come to and seems to be backed by their people.
As happens on TNUK this is a wandering thread.
If you want to talk about Trump`s success in the Albania / Macedonia issue*, and maybe his less successful actions in North-Korea, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, China, Russia, then carry on. And claiming any action as a success or failure in international relations needs a few years to pass first?
The German banks were not a paragon of virtue ten or twenty years ago. Neither were UK, US or other banks. Equating bad practice with uniquely EU policy is not valid.
*It did make me laugh: Trump helped broker a deal with better travel and trade between the two countries!
That is how peace is made and sustained…
Did anyone mention the war?
Is it a coincidence that western Europe has had an unprecedented period of peace since it started trading freely?
The point about the Albania - Macedonia deal is that yet again the EU could not sort out a problem on it’s own door step, as for peace in Europe this has had far more to do with NATO and the US’s military might than anything else, letsnot forget which EU members were selling armaments to Argentina during the Falklands conflict, very neighbourly.
Brexiteer debating tactic 421- Moan about instances when the EU didn’t intervene in a problem, often because they don’t have the power then in the next breath moan that the EU has too much power.
Mazzer2:
take it you aren’t seeing what is happening to Poland and Hungary democratically elected governments being told what to do by the EU, now you may disagree with the policies of these two governments and they certainly aren’t coming across as the most tolerant of governments yet they have been elected for the EU to then punish these countries sends out the message that as long as you are in the EU then you must vote for governments that the EU approve of, oddly enough you never hear criticism when a left wing government is elected which can be just as intolerant.
So at what point should they step in then? It’s easy to say they should leave be when not affected, but for people in many minority groups in those countries who are facing an increase in hate crimes, violence, abuse. When you can’t be who you are in your own country. Personally I think the EU needs to come down on them like a ton of bricks and suspended their membership. They are welcome to have the government they elected, but not to install hateful policies. We’ve tried appeasement before you’ll remember
Lastly- name a left wing government, I.e in power, in Europe that is as intolerant.
switchlogic:
Brexiteer debating tactic 421- Moan about instances when the EU didn’t intervene in a problem, often because they don’t have the power then in the next breath moan that the EU has too much power.
The point being made is that the EU wants to be a player on the world stage yet does not have the capability or political will to put it into practice the Balkans being a classic example don’t think any one would have objected to outside intervention there
As to your brexiteer debating tactic 421 very good even raised a smile but it ain’t gonna stop Brexit.
switchlogic:
We’ve tried appeasement before you’ll remember
Lastly- name a left wing government, I.e in power, in Europe that is as intolerant.
The irony.
Define apopeasement and ‘left wing’.
No one should be under any illusions as to the real agenda going on here and left wing doesn’t get more left than that.By implication you obviously hero worship the goose stepping Commy scum.
Mazzer2:
take it you aren’t seeing what is happening to Poland and Hungary democratically elected governments being told what to do by the EU, now you may disagree with the policies of these two governments and they certainly aren’t coming across as the most tolerant of governments yet they have been elected for the EU to then punish these countries sends out the message that as long as you are in the EU then you must vote for governments that the EU approve of, oddly enough you never hear criticism when a left wing government is elected which can be just as intolerant.
So at what point should they step in then? It’s easy to say they should leave be when not affected, but for people in many minority groups in those countries who are facing an increase in hate crimes, violence, abuse. When you can’t be who you are in your own country. Personally I think the EU needs to come down on them like a ton of bricks and suspended their membership. They are welcome to have the government they elected, but not to install hateful policies. We’ve tried appeasement before you’ll remember
Lastly- name a left wing government, I.e in power, in Europe that is as intolerant.
I don’t disagree about whether Poland or Hungary should be suspended as I said I find their stance on immigration hypocritical, However when they have seen two of the biggest players in the EU not abide by the rules then it feeds into their argument that it is one rule for some and not for others, when it comes to enforcement you either enforce all rules equally or it then becomes much harder to enforce rules when countries decide to break them.
I’ll give you at the moment there are no hard left parties in power at present in Europe, but lets not pretend that just because you are left leaning you are automatically tolerant Europe’s Jewish community might have an opinion or two on that
switchlogic:
Brexiteer debating tactic 421- Moan about instances when the EU didn’t intervene in a problem, often because they don’t have the power then in the next breath moan that the EU has too much power.
The point being made is that the EU wants to be a player on the world stage yet does not have the capability or political will to put it into practice the Balkans being a classic example don’t think any one would have objected to outside intervention there
As to your brexiteer debating tactic 421 very good even raised a smile but it ain’t gonna stop Brexit.
It doesn’t have the power because the likes of the UK didn’t want it to. You can’t suddenly create an EU military Out of thin air. The EU itself certainly has the political will they just need to work on public opinion in the member states. Which now the constant ■■■■■■■■ sniping back biting U.K. has gone they might succeed at.
switchlogic:
Brexiteer debating tactic 421- Moan about instances when the EU didn’t intervene in a problem, often because they don’t have the power then in the next breath moan that the EU has too much power.
The point being made is that the EU wants to be a player on the world stage yet does not have the capability or political will to put it into practice the Balkans being a classic example don’t think any one would have objected to outside intervention there
As to your brexiteer debating tactic 421 very good even raised a smile but it ain’t gonna stop Brexit.
It doesn’t have the power because the likes of the UK didn’t want it to. You can’t suddenly create an EU military Out of thin air. The EU itself certainly has the political will they just need to work on public opinion in the member states. Which now the constant ■■■■■■■■ sniping back biting U.K. has gone they might succeed at.
Whilst the EU has it as an aim to raise an army it’s members do not have the political will or capability to use it, you only have to look at the lip service that they pay to NATO, having worked alongside numerous European armies there are only two countries with any capability or political will to accept casualties, the first is the French Foreign Legion, the clue is in the name there if the Legion takes casualties then it is not a problem in terms of coffins coming home, the other is the Dutch Marine Corps based very much on the Royal Marines and trained by them to a large degree.
The UK’s objection to an EU army was more to do with the damage it would do to NATO than the fact that Europe has some kind of military force, whether Europe likes it or not without American heavy lift capability and technology there is very little it can do unless it is prepared to take defence spending to American levels which it is not prepared to do.
Mazzer2:
The UK’s objection to an EU army was more to do with the damage it would do to NATO than the fact that Europe has some kind of military force, whether Europe likes it or not without American heavy lift capability and technology there is very little it can do unless it is prepared to take defence spending to American levels which it is not prepared to do.
This is correct. The idea of a EU army is laughable when they cannot even contribute their 2% of GDP into military spending.
Personally i’d be happy for this country to be completely taken over as an American territory, hopefully with Trump or successor (Sid Powell ) at the helm.(perfect choice imho)
Completely rout out the UK’s cancerous monarchical/bloodline, satanic establishment,City of London’s Crown power-base brought to heel as well and start afresh.Why the hell not?,we have numerous yank defence bases already and the navies Tridents don’t launch without Uncle Sams code-inputs so let’s make it official rather than covert.Works for me.
Mazzer2:
The UK’s objection to an EU army was more to do with the damage it would do to NATO than the fact that Europe has some kind of military force, whether Europe likes it or not without American heavy lift capability and technology there is very little it can do unless it is prepared to take defence spending to American levels which it is not prepared to do.
This is correct. The idea of a EU army is laughable when they cannot even contribute their 2% of GDP into military spending.
Like the Federal Armies before it it’s main mission is stamping out any dissent within the Federation.
Which is why UK forces have been weakened v combined French and German ones.
The EU monster is just a bigger version of the failed Yugoslav type one with all the same traits.
manalishi:
Personally i’d be happy for this country to be completely taken over as an American territory, hopefully with Trump or successor (Sid Powell ) at the helm.(perfect choice imho)
Completely rout out the UK’s cancerous monarchical/bloodline, satanic establishment,City of London’s Crown power-base brought to heel as well and start afresh.Why the hell not?,we have numerous yank defence bases already and the navies Tridents don’t launch without Uncle Sams code-inputs so let’s make it official rather than covert.Works for me.
I do how Trump makes conspiracy theorists sound even more unhinged. Basically ‘the world is run by a sinister evil all powerful cabal who are behind everything that has ever happened. Even when you think they aren’t they are, that’s them being all powerful’ followed by ‘oh but not Trump. Trump is different, special. That he comes from a super wealthy family and has been financed while losing more money than he’s ever made his whole life is irrelevant/lies/myth*, as is the fact he bumbles around like a moronic fool. Lies despite the fact he does it on camera weekly. No no no every other wealthy powerful family & western government is backed by the evil cabal but not the Trumps. Trump the incompetent ‘billionaire’ is a man of the people obviously’
muckles:
The UK and EU have had a plan to sort this for months,
Have a global pandemic, of a slightly harmful virus too scare the crap out of the population and make them more compliant.
Lockdown the population of Europe
Crash the economy, to reduce general level of cross border trade, so fewer truck and ferry movements.
Lockdown the population again.
Give them “freedom” at Christmas.
Tell the population because they went mad at Christmas they need to be lockdowned in January, justify the lockdown using dodgy and out of date information.
Once the cross border issues have been sorted out with lower levels of traffic, give the population a vaccination and let them go back to work, but tax the crap out of them to get some of that money back.
When the population ask for their freedoms back, remember how easy it was to control a population using fear and media hysteria and invent a new crisis.
Be careful you don’t cut yourself on the sharp edges of your tinfoil hat.
Carryfast:
Your idea of ‘the people’ is obviously closer to Xi’s and Jog on’s than Trump’s.
Come on Carry you really aren’t as stupid as this makes you sound
It is anything but stupid to suggest that Macron, Merkel, Juncker and Biden’s closet Socialist rabble are all united on an agenda of Communist dominated ‘world governance’ in the name of ‘the People’.Be careful what you wish for.
Carryfast:
Your idea of ‘the people’ is obviously closer to Xi’s and Jog on’s than Trump’s.
Come on Carry you really aren’t as stupid as this makes you sound
It is anything but stupid to suggest that Macron, Merkel, Juncker and Biden’s closet Socialist rabble are all united on an agenda of Communist dominated ‘world governance’ in the name of ‘the People’.Be careful what you wish for.
Ok maybe you are then Carryfast debate tactic 69- just pick a random post to quote, doesn’t matter what it says you just need an excuse to go off on one. It doesn’t actually need to make sense
