GE 2019

The reason that there IS an “Establishment” - is that they are Established.

It takes a LOT to overthrow a regime - even one that’s despised by over half the population. ESPECIALLY one that is despised by over half of the population!

Corbyn - thinks he can harvest this “Anti Establishment” vote, and “Do a Trump”…

He hasn’t even got the right connections - let along the right personal qualities to achieve such.

Farage - couldn’t achieve anything from within the Conservative party, and looks like being unable to now keep the Right on board - just as he begins to appeal to the Anti-Establishment Left.

I wonder how many people will tactically vote Farage in the coming election - to “unseat a Tory” regardless of them being a Remainer, Leaver, or “Didn’t Vote” normally…?

Winseer:
Our establishment have shown a balanced indiffence towards ■■■■■■■■■■ gangs of ALL cultures, creeds, and colours.

“Dolphin Square” got discarded as easily as “Rotherham” after all.

All they had to do was “bounce it onto some celebrities” and the Politicians and other high-born folk - were in the clear from the start.
“As surely as Epstein manually throttled himself”

The traditional way for a Right-Winger to take power - is by force of arms, Eg. Like Napoleon putting down the Left Wing “Reign of Terror” that preceeded his rule.

That Griffen and Robinson come to that “held no high military rank beforehand” - shows their weakness straight out of the gate - for what it is.

In 2008 Labour sent a circular email to every police force to ignore the grooming of our children and that the girls as young as 11 had consented to been tortured, raped, and drugged. Labour are more bothered about securing the muslim vote than the welfare of our kids

politicalite.com/corbyn/lab … ing-gangs/

Juddian:

ATJT:

Juddian:
No ‘other’ or ‘none of the above’ on the list i see.

So as there’s no BNP option by default it will have to be Nige’s crew.

You’ve genuinely surprised me with that. I read your posts and you seem a measured and intelligent person yet to me the BNP is an unashamedly Neo-■■■■ outfit still peddling holocaust denial amongst other things.

Maybe they aren’t as extreme as they used to be but I still just think of Combat 18 etc.

Have ever met any BNP members? at least when it was run by Griffin, you know those heavily tattooed skin head thugs which the media like to portray, they didn’t exist.
Don’t go by what was written about them by the MSM, yes they had their faults like every other group and party.
I remember when the Labour party represented working class people, when Liberal Democrats were liberal minded and believed in democracy, when Conservatives believed in conserving the country and all that was good about it, we didn’t desert them, they have deserted us and made no secret of despising those of us who objected by daring to vote to leave their pet project, the EU, and have gone out of their way since to stopping it happening, Johnson’s polished glittered version of May’s surrender deal turd being their current best shot at carrying out the wishes of the electorate? give me a break.

The problem we had, before Farage came along and UKIP surged (i hold no candles for Farage, but respect him because without him we would have had no referendum at all) , was that have had for years 3 main parties indistinguishable from one another with interchangeable MPs, all committed to ever further integration with the EU…the present debacle proof if ever any was needed, the present PM a dyed in the wool europhile until 10 minutes ago, so who’s the real Boris Johnson?..another ex Bullingdon club hooray henry who thinks he’s born to rule and prepared to tread on anyone and any principle to achieve his rightful position, does he still have european union written through his bones or is his damascene shift to wanting to leave the EU real?

When you have two houses of parliament stuffed with those who haven’t a clue how real people live in the country, and increasingly tell them their country is no longer theirs and must be opened to the world and without you ever being asked, or even informed it was happening anyway, changed beyond recognition in the space of 3 decades, don’t be surprised if some people realise there is no one actually speaking for them, no one who raises even the slightest objection to what has happened and being accelerated year on year, and finds another party to vote for who is prepared despite all the might of the state propaganda machine against them to say something different.

Last year you remember we were signed up by a tory govt that once more boringly proved it can’t be trusted, again without a by your leave, to the UN Global Migration Compact, look up for yourself the figures which the UN considers an optimum population for the UK and wonder what your children’s life and country will be like in a few decades time.

Oh and well done for slipping ‘■■■■’ in.

As I said, that was my perception the “■■■■” bit. A quick look at Wikipedia tells me that the ■■■■ accusation was probably appropriate during the Tyndall years but Nick Griffin took them in a different direction. I’m not young so my memories of them hark back a long way and hadn’t updated my views on their recent shifts in policy.

ArcticMonkey:

Winseer:
Our establishment have shown a balanced indiffence towards ■■■■■■■■■■ gangs of ALL cultures, creeds, and colours.

“Dolphin Square” got discarded as easily as “Rotherham” after all.

All they had to do was “bounce it onto some celebrities” and the Politicians and other high-born folk - were in the clear from the start.
“As surely as Epstein manually throttled himself”

The traditional way for a Right-Winger to take power - is by force of arms, Eg. Like Napoleon putting down the Left Wing “Reign of Terror” that preceeded his rule.

That Griffen and Robinson come to that “held no high military rank beforehand” - shows their weakness straight out of the gate - for what it is.

In 2008 Labour sent a circular email to every police force to ignore the grooming of our children and that the girls as young as 11 had consented to been tortured, raped, and drugged. Labour are more bothered about securing the muslim vote than the welfare of our kids

politicalite.com/corbyn/lab … ing-gangs/

The link you show gives an “allegation” made in Nov 2018 about events in 2008.
A freedom of information request in Dec 2018 referring to this alleged e-mail fails to identify it.
whatdotheyknow.com/request/ … sthrough=1
Clicking into Home Office circulars for 2008, I cant see it.
webarchive.nationalarchives.gov … 095067-p=4
There is this document
webarchive.nationalarchives.gov … /017-2008/
But no mention of non investigation I can see.

Maybe its there? Maybe its not?
Whatever, it is good to see that Mr Afzal was able to do his job successfully.

Edit to add.
Just to be clear the Rochdale case was an horrific set of multiple mistakes by many people, but can`t see a gov email involved.

I wouldn’t be too sure of Labour keeping hold of the “Muslim Vote” for much longer…

It seems that Labour’s “All Women Short-lists” has created a bit of a division among the local muslim population where it is traditional for Husbands to tell their wives “how to vote” and “vote for the MALE Labour candidate”…

…Only now that Ms Begum (!!) has been selected from a labour all-female shortlist The local guys are a bit upset with regards to their own wives "wanting to vote for this girly in a predominaltly male-orientated local (muslim) culture…

Hmm…

Meanwhile - Boris Johnson appoints an Asian Home secretary, that is likely to win over a few Asian votes in places like Leicester - the appointment of Sajid Javid - the first muslim chancellor - must appeal very strongly to the more “Patriachal” Muslim MALE voting population at very least…

Extinction Rebellion - aint making many friends at present, neither…

Labour Remainers, thinking of switching to Libdem at the election - might now be put off from doing so by Swinson clearly missing the goal when she had the real opportunity to make Labour’s beloved Corbyn “Caretaker PM” recently…

Brexit Party - seem to be now distancing themselves from the Tories, whilst offering an olive branch to Labour voters There must be plenty of Anti-Tory Labour voters in safe Libdem/Tory held seats - that might indeed vote Brexit Party IF they thought they had a real chance of unseating their incumbent MP…

Perhaps the votes for SNP, Greens, and Libdems might collapse, and we’ll see an election result something like:

Conservative 309 seats (Lost 30, Gained 21 Net -9)
Labour 272 seats (Lost 35, Gained 45 net +10)
Sinn Fein and DUP - swap places. +3 for Sinn Fein, -3 for DUP.
Independents (Lost 31, gained 0 - net -31)
Libdems (Lost 19, gained 9 - net -10)
SNP (lost 30, gained 12 - net -18)
Green (Lost 1, gained 0 - net -1)
Plaid Cymru (Lost 4, gained 0 - net -4)
Brexit Party (started from 0, gained 62 - net +62)

This would mean if Corbyn were to suddenly hoist his Eurosceptic colours, and offer Farage his “don’t want to be in government” support & supply deal - then YES - we might see Farage gaining that all-important Brexit Dividend for LABOUR’S benefit, rather than the non-spending-when-they-have-it Conservatives. We’re told Labour’s spending plans are costed at £196,000,000,000 of late.

Even THAT won’t be paid entirely by the Brexit Dividend. In fact, it would take another 13 years of Labour to cover that - by which point “Universal Income” might then be firmly established, and will have indeed changed the nature of the UK economy. “Done away with Poverty” this time around, rather than Gordon Brown’s “Done away with Boom and Bust”…

It seems that Boris Johnson “cannot be forced to do a No Deal Brexit”…
But Corbyn on the other hand? - If it means “Accept a no deal Brexit - and Farage will make you PM” - then YES… that becomes a distinct possibility, that the Tories are desperate “not to lose Tory-held seats to Brexit Party” to facilitate…

Winseer:
might see Farage gaining that all-important Brexit Dividend for LABOUR’S benefit, rather than the non-spending-when-they-have-it Conservatives

The Brexit Dividend, lives in the same stable as the other Brexit unicorns.
fullfact.org/europe/does-brexit-dividend-exist/

Edit to add Twitter Link
twitter.com/BrexitDividend

The Brexit Dividend - isn’t a cut-and-dried figure, it is true.

The problem is, that we get to SEE how our money gets wasted about the EU - and that to me includes things like Brexit Party MEP wages - when they shouldn’t have been there at all from March 29th THIS year. All that money being wasted - and now going on to be wasted… Can’t put an exact figure on it, probably not “£350m per week” - but a huge drain on UK financial resources, nonetheless.

A mathematician will give you an equation for “defining” the Brexit dividend: Trouble with THAT is "You’d need to be a mathematician to understand that it is CORRECT and the TRUE “solution” of course!

Then there’s the reason we pay any of this money at ALL… "TO support the EU institutions - that we’re supposed to be leaving control of!

You cannot “take back our fisheries” for instance, a VERY popular Brexiteer policy in those towns up north where fishing towns are a shadow of their former selves…

Now - our government might tell the fisherman - “go ahead and fish in your own waters once again” - only to bustle with Dutch and Spanish trawlers who’ve not been told they cannot fish in UK waters any longer - Lack of EU approval (a risk even after a No Deal Brexit!) and of course “Lack of legal enforcement by the UK” - (ONLY possible after a NO Deal Brexit)

I understand we’ve already purchased as a country some new what used to be called “PT Boats” for the purpose of “coastal enforcement”.
Not much news about it, despite it happening over a year back… If we’re not careful, people will be suggesting that there are 5 vessels deployed as part of “Operation Yellowhammer” - is complete bull - but it’s NOT - is it?

A proper Brexit must consist of the following - IF we’re to harvest the Brexit Dividend, which in Layman’s terms is defined as “The money we regularily pay the EU net of Rebates”.
We can obtain that figure - simply by coming out of ALL the EU institutions, and thereby paying no further “dues” to be a member of such EU instititutions. Who wants to pay ongoingly for a Gym Membership when you’re trying to tighten your belt in terms of “spending waste”? Who has tried to leave Sky or Virgin Media - only to find that it is as difficult to “Negotiate” as “Leaving the EU” - all the while, they’ve kept you paying for another few months meanwhile?

“Fiscal Drag” - has been WEAPONIZED by the EU institutions, I suggest. “The longer WE dither - the more THEY get out of US” - rather than the other way around.

“Transition Period” - is just the EU telling us “We know you wanted to leave right now, and harvest the money right now - but hey - let’s do this over 14 months - that’s 14 months more of money to the EU, and a delay to your spending plans - unless you go down the normal path of raising taxes or borrowing…” Right? The purpose of the transition period 100% financially benefits the EU, and is only “convenience” to the UK institutions as they can now “sit on their arses for longer, not getting things done”.

If it were possible for a employee to be paid after they’ve left a company’s employ - then doesn’t that encourage that bulletproof employee to do everything they can to effect being dismissed - IF they know they carry on being paid, ongoingly?

I once knew this bloke in 1990 who’d been forced to take a job as a postman, because he would “have his benefits stopped if he didn’t”. He wasn’t allowed to “resign” to get back onto benefits neither.
So he assaulted the boss in his office one day - got removed from the premises on the spot - and it took RM SIX WEEKS to stop paying him, by which point his waiting period for going back onto benefits had passed - and hey presto! The guy completely gets things his own way, and flouts the system - BOTH systems in effect there! I was an indoor worker at the time, and had not got my HGV licence yet. I was gobsmacked at how difficult it had been for RM to get rid of this guy, who’d actually committed a criminal offence in the workplace!!
No charges for “assault” were brought, because there were no witnesses, and I believe the “victim” had only fallen backwards across his desk when clouted, which was deemed insufficient evidence that he’d been “assaulted”. “I took a step towards him, and he fell backwards over his own desk” kinda thing…

Boris Johnson’s “Oven Ready” deal is aimed at Brexiteers suffering from “Brexiteer Fatigue” clearly.
The result of the forthcoming election on the other hand - will be about if the Remainers and Labour voters - want the Tories GONE more than they worry about Brexit. That’s it.
Farage - is FAR more likely to mop up some Labour Brexiteers than Tory ones in that regard. FFS if Boris can only argue “A vote for BP supports Corbyn” - then hell YES - Labour Brexiteers - are going to vote for that, especially now that Farage has ruled OUT “standing in a westminster seat” as of this morning on Marr…

Farage - can now do only a “support and supply” arrangement with Labour falling short of a majority, which even if they surge - they are most likely to end up doing.
Farage - ruling himself out as a Westminster MP - makes him “no longer a threat to Corbyn”.
At the same time, Conservative Voters considering “switching to Brexit Party” - will be scared off by this move, and will probably reluctantly support Boris Johnson - even if they are Remainers themselves, and cannot stand him!..

Interesting… A No Deal Brexit supplying the Brexit Dividend - might yet end up being the “Crock of Gold at the end of the Rainbow” for CORBYN - Unicorns apart… The Irony!! :open_mouth:

I’m a person that can be “sold to” at all times. It is an important part of being a floating voter to me.

There are a number of things that can happen to get me to switch my vote to Labour. Unlikely though such a chain of events might seem - it is there, nonetheless.

How many other people out there - would not switch their votes under any circumstances?

The result of this most important election in our lifetimes - will be decided by “those who can be sold to” rather than “ostriches with their collective heads in the sand” I suggest.

There are things that Corbyn can do to muster up the Brexiteer vote - as he did in 2017.
Theresa May was practically offering herself up as a punchbag going into the 2017 election - wasn’t he?

Corbyn - like Trump - “gets out there” though. If he fails - it will be because others held him back, or because Corbyn had such a poor judgement of character not to get rid of these “sabateurs” within the Labour Party when he could…

Here’s three things Corbyn could do between NOW and polling day - that would get me to switch my vote to Labour…

(1) Turn over his entire front bench, and replace them with his former rival Blairites “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” (N.Machiavelli)
(2) State that as the LEADER of the Labour Party - that his EUROSCEPTIC policy is now switching away from Labour’s backbench dictat of Remain to embracing a “come out of EU control” FULL Brexit.
(3) Talk about what aspects of Brexit Dividend are going to fund which parts of Labour core policy committments, including for example “Once out of the ECJ - we will be confiscating those utilities essential for our well-being from the EU owners - which we cannot do presently, as it would be “against the law” in the EU.”

This number (3) point - is as far as I’d ever want to see Labour going down the “Venuzeula” path of course… I might be left wing on finance - but I’m not a marxist or trotskyist. :blush:

Corbyn showing such leadership as “giving foreign nations the finger” - would win over the support of the Right Wing, Patriots, Imperialists, and of course Middle Classes - just as Blair ended up doing in 1997 enough to win a landslide majority at a time when there was a great set of figures to inherit from John Major’s skinflint “Grey Accountancy” years. I never voted for John Major. I never voted for Thatcher. My vote truly IS out there to be “won”. :smiling_imp:

Badger sums it up nicely, don’t be taken in by the Tories once again with their if you don’t vote for me you’ll get the bogeyman, this is the truth of it.+

Capture.JPG

Trust the Tories :unamused:

I hear you. I too, got taken in by May’s empty rhetoric.

I remember thinking that the past two elections had been all about “Brexit Bashing” and “A vote for Farage is a vote for Labour” -

Well now we seem to have the choice that we can either have the Brexit Dividend gotten, and Labour to go out and spend it all
OR
No Brexit, No Brexit Dividend, No more Farage and a Tory government who’ll keep on blaming Labour for “Sorry there’s no money for anything” despite it being nearly a decade’s old excuse by this point.

If we’re living beyond our means - then let’s at least LIVE rather than put ourselves in hock, our kids even hockier - and get nothing done now, and for all eternity.

Boris’ Empty talk of “more money for the NHS” means nothing - if there’s “Nothing left for anything else”.
We’ll no doubt be told “Sorry, we promised on the basis of winning a massive, undefined majority”.

NO DICE!

We’ve had Two Hung Parliaments this decade already thanks to the public believing the flannel of the Conservatives.
First we had Cameron “buying up Cleggy on the cheap” in 2010, knowing that the one thing they agreed upon was “Being Europhilliac at any price to the UK as a sovereign state”.
Then we had Cameron telling us in 2015 that a “Vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour” along with “Get a referendum with me, but not if I am in coalition again”. It wasn’t even close. We boycotted UKIP for that rhetoric back then, and fell for it. Cameron - didn’t expect Leave to win of course, and couldn’t be bothered to clean up his own mess despite winning a full majority when Leave DID win.
Enter May who had the support of over half the Conservative Party in the initial leadership contest that followed… Gove wisely pulled Boris back from “losing” there, because if Boris had come second to May in that contest - chances are, that would have been Boris’ bid for leadership done - forever.
May - A Remainer full of meaningless platitudes - once again sold us the notion without even campaigning for it that “A No Deal is better than a Bad Deal” and we idiots believed that this meant she actually intended along with over half her Remainer Party supporters - to even TALK of letting No Deal happen.

Now here we are, with May Mk II - 95% the same as May’s Mk I deal. I expected BETTER from Boris - and yet we don’t even have empty promises this time, such as Boris promising a No Deal Brexit if he wins a majority.
NOTHING OF THE SORT!
We’ve been promised Boris’ “Oven Ready” surrender treaty that keeps us in initially for 14 months on full EU payments, waiting for this “free trade agreement” that’ll never come of course - because it is in the EU’s interest to “delay that indefintely” to keep the UK income stream going! Doh!!!

Our Parliament doesn’t seem to have any real GAMBLERS in it. Not those “Gambling with their own political futures” - but rather those prepared to gamble that taking us out of the EU in a way that DESTROYS the EU financially - will make us some kind of pariah in the process on the international stage…
Will it?

If the EU is gone - who gains? Putin? Trump? Jingping?
SURE there will be a balance of power shift. Why not to Merry old BRITAIN though?
The EU are desperate to carry on UK-EU trade - but we should no longer be prepared to pay a subscription for that trade which has always benefited the EU more than the UK, indeed with the UK frequently running a financial deficit on that trade…
…But if we stop paying the subscription - the trade profits the EU make on their own - are NOT enough to pay for the bloated, EUSSR beaurocratic budget - full stop!

Take a view from wider out - and we see that FAR too much cash has been spent propping up ailing businesses, ailing BANKS, and of course ailing political systems along with their supporting parties… Liberal Socialism aka “Tory Lite” - doesn’t work. National Socialism - was a complete disaster as we all know. Now we have one shot left at proper LEFT socialism or the alternative - A return to Imperialist Right Capitalism.

Boris Johnson - is no “Churchill.” Corbyn - with his “voice crying in the wilderness” for proper Socialism paid for out of our own cash repatriated - isn’t quite looking so silly as he once did, neither.

There’s no point in voting Labour if they don’t openly support a No Deal Brexit though.
No point voting Conservative neither!

This election IS all about Brexit. The Prize? - The Brexit Dividend.
Break the laws to get it. Smash the EU as a political entity in the process. Bring it all down in favour of a new, and better system that perhaps should have been there in the first place.

This country being awash with cash - UNITES this country.
Two mainstream parties that say either we can live beyond our means OR suffer endless austerity measures - are about as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip.

Gotta vote for the party that chases the rainbow then: The alternative is "giving up, and accepting everlasting austerity, be it from a Tory government inflicting it upon the nation’s hard-up OR a Labour government - inflicting it upon the working taxpayer hard-up… The choice - is ours as always.

Let’s not all be taken in yet again by the usual rubbish coming from the career politicians used to “getting away with the big lies” because we’re paying far too much attention to the small ones that make the newspapers…

If we leave “Hard Brexit” from the EU and the Tories are NOT in power - then guess what?

How can it possibly then be a “Damaging Tory Brexit”■■
That is what Boris seems to be offering thouogh - and that’s why Boris must NOT get a majority from those who are more scared of Corbyn than of a No Deal Brexit.

I’d happily accept Corbyn as PM IF the Brexit Dividend has been achieved to rule out “tax hikes” and “more borrowing” for our future incoming government.

A Labour/SNP alliance - aint gonna happen. Labour - NEED those SNP seats BACK - but this still leaves them about 30-40 seats short.
Farage - has now ruled himself out as future PM - so no one can accuse him of being an “Extension of the Tory Party”.
He ain’t. Making this country awash with cash for us to then elect the party we see fit to spend that cash “wisely”.

A return to PROPER governments by the people, of the people, - for the people.
Our MPs SHOULD be our wealth creators rather than wealth freeloaders.

If Farage stands 600 candidates - he will be able to dicate who among the entire of Westminster makeup - gets to be PM - a REAL “Kingmaker” simply because now - it won’t be HIM.

That - should be a force to unite the Brexit vote behind those of our MPs that are worth saving among the current complement.
…Then just add the new UK-loving ones that come courtesy of the Brexit Party to displace all those UK-hating Remainers who think we are already a colony/vassal state of the EU, and always will be.

Time to get off the sinking ship - whilst there are still some lifeboats left. Other member states will follow Britain out.
We’re doing them ALL a favour.
Only the rich with large Eurocurrency balances in their bank accounts - stand to lose their entire fortunes if we pull this off.
Companies going bust? Not those serving the public! Only those serving the elites - I would suggest. :smiling_imp:

ArcticMonkey:
How can anyone vote Labour when they have a problem with anti-semitism, Corbyn hates our country and was friends with IRA and Hamas. Him and Mcdonnell are dangerous people with worrying Marxist ideologies. But worst still, can you imagine Jabba the Hut Abbott in the cabinet?

This kid knows youtu.be/clM1-1q6FhE

TBP introducing their 600 candidates.

youtube.com/watch?v=3fUMAD3ohW8

Well I have made my decision.
I will be voting for Jeremy Corbyn.

Hear me out.

I wont vote for TBP because I don’t see why a clean break brexit is necessarily. The vote was 52/48 that to me is not a mandate for a hard brexit. That is a mandate for a compromise. Yes we need to deliver brexit but we shouldn’t ignore 48% of the populous in the process we can have Brexit and a close trade deal with the EU.
I am perfectly happy with Boris Johnson’s deal now that the backstop is gone. Yes, it’s not perfect but it is the best we will get unless you want another extension. Also it is brexit… To say it isn’t is silly and it’s why the remain camp hate it so much because it is brexit.
Also TBP policy on immigration is not anti immigration it is in fact pro immigration. Indeed, they are all about a points based immigration system in which the needs of businesses will determine who can come to the UK.
HGV industry claims there is a shortage of drivers? UK sends distress call out for HGV drivers…
They are not anti-immigration they just want to control it.

I did consider voting for Boris but he is just going to campaign on the Brexit issue.
Once that is done in January then what? He will have 5 years to do what he wants. No doubt cutting a lot of public services.

So I come back to Jeremy.
Like I said before I want reduced student fees.
I want affordable housing.
I want the tyranny of the landlords to end.
I want the railways to be renationalised. This should of happened years ago but the tories are so stubbon they would rather renationise railways every few years once a firm has run it into the ground only to do it up and sell it again.
IT’S crazy. We still maintain the railways. But the private firms do a ■■■■ poor job and collect all the profit and when it runs into issues we have to pay for it.

So basically I am voting without a regard to Brexit. I want it done but I care about the social issues more.

All this fear over a Hard Brexit… Let’s look at the issue for “Moderate” Brexiteers, “Moderate” Remainers, and “Hard” Remainers…

For the Moderate Brexiteer - a Hard Brexit would mean reducing our “special relationship” with the geographically close EU to that of mere “trading partner”. Those institutions we have over here OF the EU that are considered to be “A working success story” - will be torn down…

I would ask the Moderate Brexiteer WHAT those “Institutions” ARE exactly, as I’m buggered if I know…

For the Moderate Remainer - I would ask "What are you afraid of about Brexit that makes you continue to withhold “Loser’s Consent” like you might normally do when voting for the party that didn’t win the election?

For the Hardened Remainer - I would ask “Do you really prefer Raised Taxes and Inceased Borrowing” as the ONLY ways to improve public services - with no guarantee that the implementation will be done properly, to make such “Improved-with-borrowed-cash” public services even viable, let alone “improved”?

…I’ve been looking for videos that say Brexit Party intends to privatize the NHS, let Trump buy out the NHS, strip away magna-carta-given Rights from UK workers, or lock people up because they have a different colour/creed/culture to White British citizens… Even back when Farage was head of UKIP - I don’t recall anything remotely “Racist” about Farage…

Perhaps we should all try and see Farage like THIS

…instead of like this

Farage Microphone.jpg

Just because Farage gets on with Trump…

…that doesn’t make him “Hitler”.

The main thing that makes Corbyn unelectable - is the threat of raised taxes and out-of-control Borrowing.
Farage as Kingmaker, delivering the Brexit Dividend - supplies the Magic Money Tree for LABOUR that covers their spending plans, and leaves the Tories looking like the party of “Tax and Spend” which will make THEM “unelectable” in due course. We’ve had a decade of austerity since the Credit Crunch, nearly all of it down to Tory Austerity cuts for most people.

Taking back our own cash from paying it to the EU - ENDS austerity on the SPOT.

…If only the Left could lose their dislike of Farage and what Brexit Party stands for…
…If only the Right realized that people are less likely to vote “Tory” out of fear of “Corbyn” any longer…

Boris Johnson has HAD his chance. He’s let the opposition run rings around him, making “lack of no deal” a reason to blame Labour and the Libdems, when the objection was really to a “Damaging Tory Brexit” as Corbyn puts it. What about a “Damaging LABOUR Brexit” that crushes the EU out of political existance?

…If I can live with that as a person who’s voted Tory in the past, but never Labour - then the only bar to Corbyn becoming PM - is if Labour members refuse to LET him go into coalition with Farage now.

…Alternatively, Labour voters could just “roll over” and let Boris fear-up the undecided voters into keeping Labour out of office for yet another term…

We’re DONE with “Centerist” politics in this country. Blair from the “Center” as “Tory Lite” has come and gone now.
The Libdems not keeping their promises - has made them “mainstream” that makes them “Creatures OF the swamp” rather than “outside it” as Brexit Party happen to be, not tainted by having ANY seats currently at Westminster. Let that fact come to bite them all in the arse then!

Corbyn - is trying to muster the “Anti Establishment Vote”. Farage - can now take it away from Tory voters who could not countenence voting Labour, AND Labour voters who’s vote up until now - “didn’t count” such as all those seats where Labour are on the low four figure vote poll in that ward. Labour - as it stands - cannot get a majority as easily as the Tories can. They are 33/1 against winning a majority, but 2-1 getting “more seats”. The Tories are even money to get a majority and long odds-on to win the most seats. THE SAME AS THERESA MAY IN 2017! Look what happened to her when she was 23 points ahead in the polls… “Resting on her laurels” doesn’t begin to describe her arrogance, folly, and underestimation of the strength of Anti-EU institution feeling in this country… If the Tories are not interested in mustering the Hard Brexit vote that delivers the cash - then perhaps Corbyn could be convinced to embrace NO Deal as part of a coalition offer?

Boris Johnson - should be very afraid of this - but he’s clearly thinking HIS brand of “Project Fear” - is going to get him a small majority consisting of over 100 retained Remainer Tories that’ll not ever LET him deliver NO Deal - even if he WANTED to.

Nope.

The swamp must be drained. And now Brexit can be on the same ticket!

I’m giving up on a Tory Hard Brexit that really repatriates ALL the cash from the EU.

I reckon we should ALL vote Tactically, and send the “parties that get nothing done” to oblivion, and give Corbyn minus his front bench - a shot. People have been voting for him rather than his shoddy front bench after all…

I won’t be voting Labour in my constituency, because I have a personal grievance about Andy Stamp acting against local grammar schools, which has detrimented my kid’s education by merging what was once a good grammar with a really lousy comprehensive.

My local Tory MP Chishti - has nearly a 10k majority here, and the way I see it is that Brexit Party would more easily get past Labour than Labour get past Tory here.

It is a tactical vote for Brexit Party for me then.

I can see the Conservatives taking seats from the Libdems in particular, whilst Labour will take seats back from the SNP and Plaid maybe.
Instead of gaining though - Brexit Party would then take some Remainer MP seats in Brexit-voting wards off BOTH main parties denying them BOTH a full majority, but passing on the net “damage” to the Libdems and SNP.

A result where both Labour and Conservative poll around the 280 mark - would leave Brexit Party as prospective coalition partners to EITHER with a mere 46 seats.

Don’t assume that this anticipated “Brexit Party/Conservative” coalition is a fait accompli since there is a precedent back in the Spring 1974 election where Ted Heath REFUSED to consider a coalition with Thorpe’s Liberal Party along with Wolfe’s SNP - and conceded to Wilson to form a minority Labour government instead. Had Heath done the coaltion - he would have ended up with 319 seats, a acting majority of just one… Just like Boris recently! In the Autumn 1974 election that Wilson didn’t have to call - Wilson went upto that same 319 tally - and therefore won a full majority of that same 1…

I can see Boris “walking away” in a similar manner to Heath should he end up “Tying” and too proud to do a coalition with Farage.

Corbyn though? Now Farage has ruled out being PM himself since he won’t even be an MP and cannot even be a backbencher coalition member - any “toxicity” of “Marmite Farage” - is surely disbanded then and there by this point?

How much does Corbyn want to be PM? How much would he like to spend the Brexit Dividend that Farage gets for him - on LABOUR policies… PROPER Labour policies?

His front bench would object of course… But a good turnover of MPs in this coming election (Eg. 64 seats lost, 82 seats gained) should weaken the front bench’s arguments for pretty much ANY “change at the top”. Can you imagine Labour holding a vote of no confidence over Corbyn considering going into coalition with Farage? Would Labour REALLY prove they are nothing but an Elitist Champagne Socialist Outfit that “didn’t really want to be in government” just on the “permanent career politician” mealticket by “holding Corbyn back”…?

I understand that Corbyn got quite assertive recently insisting that this election could now take place

Well - it worked in 2017 - didn’t it?

“Campaigning to the Public” - isn’t Corbyn’s weak suit. It is his own party that hold him back.

BUT… In the end though - it is his decision to make.

Boris - doesn’t seem to want to be PM for much longer. Cameron - certainlly looked “Disappointed” at winning his “unexpected” majority in 2015…

Some goods posts.

Bit surprising how positive you guys are of Corbyn. :slight_smile:
I agree completely a Farage / Corbyn colation would be great. The problem as you said is the very vocal remainer faction in labour.

Let’s not forget though that Jeremy Corbyn is by one of the most pro-brexit MPs. Far more than Johnson. Corbyn’s voting record backs this(pre-2016).
The very big issue is getting Labour to support a brexit though.

We can hope. Seems doubtful though as TBP will be targeting a lot of labour seats.
Bleh, I have brexit fatigue and I can see this easily being drawn out for another few years due to a hung parliament.

adam277:
Well I have made my decision.
I will be voting for Jeremy Corbyn.

Hear me out.

I wont vote for TBP because I don’t see why a clean break brexit is necessarily. The vote was 52/48 that to me is not a mandate for a hard brexit. That is a mandate for a compromise. Yes we need to deliver brexit but we shouldn’t ignore 48% of the populous in the process we can have Brexit and a close trade deal with the EU.
I am perfectly happy with Boris Johnson’s deal now that the backstop is gone. Yes, it’s not perfect but it is the best we will get unless you want another extension. Also it is brexit… To say it isn’t is silly and it’s why the remain camp hate it so much because it is brexit.
Also TBP policy on immigration is not anti immigration it is in fact pro immigration. Indeed, they are all about a points based immigration system in which the needs of businesses will determine who can come to the UK.
HGV industry claims there is a shortage of drivers? UK sends distress call out for HGV drivers…
They are not anti-immigration they just want to control it.

I did consider voting for Boris but he is just going to campaign on the Brexit issue.
Once that is done in January then what? He will have 5 years to do what he wants. No doubt cutting a lot of public services.

So I come back to Jeremy.
Like I said before I want reduced student fees. Keep the Libdems OUT then.
I want affordable housing. Engineer a housing crash. A sharp rise in interest rates caused by massive and deliberate over-borrowing should cause that. Trump is on that case - right now as it happens, - with the fed
I want the tyranny of the landlords to end. Losing their shirts over their “Property empires” with all that pyamided debt - would make me grin too…
I want the railways to be renationalised. This should of happened years ago but the tories are so stubbon they would rather renationise railways every few years once a firm has run it into the ground only to do it up and sell it again. Agreed. British Rail - WORKED. It was more affordable, we had 12 coach trains that took up the entire platform, you didn’t have to tax your brains trying to work out the cheapest way to travel.
IT’S crazy. We still maintain the railways. But the private firms do a ■■■■ poor job and collect all the profit and when it runs into issues we have to pay for it.

So basically I am voting without a regard to Brexit. I want it done but I care about the social issues more.

I’m voting to hand Corbyn the cash to deliver on his spending plans… A year ago a Labour/BP coalition would be “unthinkable” - but now Farage has turned against the Tories■■?.. Anything can happen - watch this space! I’m not scared of Corbyn any more. A coalition would be enough of “draining the swamp” to keep his current front bench out, assuming he can survive any attempt to remove him… Members won’t let that happen - will they?

adam277:
Some goods posts.

Bit surprising how positive you guys were are Corbyn. :slight_smile:
I agree completely a Farage / Corbyn colation would be great. The problem as you said is the very vocal remainer faction in labour.

Let’s not forget though that Jeremy Corbyn is by one of the most pro-brexit MPs. Far more than Johnson. Corbyn’s voting record backs this(pre-2016).
The very big issue is getting Labour to support a brexit though. Agreed. If it was a case of “Support a No Deal Brexit and I’ll make you PM with no interference Mr Corbyn” from Farage - then I reckon Corbyn would bite Farge’s hand off to sign that coalition, personally… What’s the alternative for Corbyn if he take the keys to number 10 in that set-up?

We can hope.

Few decades ago being left and euro-sceptic was common place.
Some of the most prominent leftists did not want anything to do with the EU.

If people once believed it then they can believe it again.
People who voted to leave the EU are not racist like the media make out. This is the biggest lie going on at the moment. I also think it is far more damaging then any lie the leave campaign did. Because it has divided our society.

The left need reminding that their most prominent members in the past were euro-sceptic and that this is not a bad thing.
Tony Benn for example he completely disagreed with the idea of the EU.
You will struggle to get more socialist than this guy.

Here is a quote from wiki from him about the EU.

Later in his diary, (25 October 1977) Benn wrote that he “loathed” the EEC; he claimed it was “bureaucratic and centralised” and “of course it is really dominated by Germany. All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany, and they have this mixed feeling of hatred and subservience towards the Germans”.

It’s just a shame that his son is nothing like him.