GE 2019

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
21

dave docwra:

adam277:
Not a single vote for TIG(Anna Soubry’s party)
No wonder they don’t want a general election. :grimacing:

The poll indicates that a split in the leave vote might happen. It will be very interesting to see what decision Nigel Farage will make when he announces the plan for the Brexit Party.

Does anyone on this forum actually want to remain. :grimacing: ?

I am a Remainer, it would be an ideal time to announce that we wish to stay and would want to negotiate a better deal for the UK…

I’m sure the EU would welcome us “back” (we didn’t leave after all) - with a shiny new “No Reforms” guarantee, and leave us like they left Socialist Tsipras of Greece who threw his hand away by saying “he wanted to stay in” - only for the EU to then inflict humongous austerity upon Greece, which has already cost many lives. I don’t think the EU will EVER “reform” from it’s wasteful ways, alas. I didn’t realize that - until the point when Cameron came back empty-handed. Even on this day we could and should have left with no deal - the EU have offered us NO incentive to “stay” other than “Better the devil you know”. We lose on our trade with the EU, but ministers have been too lazy to face the “work cut out for them” that would be re-setting all our foreign trade routes, in future by-passing the EU. We’ll gain from leaving in the end, but sure - there will be teething troubles. If we stay in though? Our energy prices - show what happens to our cost of living “whilst we remain”. I’d expect no less of such rising prices upon “Must-have” imports - in the years to come IF we don’t ever leave.

It isn’t that “Socialism doesn’t work” - but rather “Socialism needs a magic money tree” - with the Brexit Dividend being it - but has so far, been turned down by the mainstream, presumably because people actually IN power get “strongly convinced” to support a different view to any common-sense mathematical argument about being “better or worse off”.

I, don’t have a problem with Labour’s expensive policy spending commitments - IF they are paid for by said magic money tree… Promising new taxes on an undefined “wealthy” - doesn’t cut it, as “wealthy” is likely to prove to be “anyone earning more than minimum wages, who don’t claim benefits”, alas.

In fact, I’d rather see Farage in coalition with Labour - since we cannot trust the Tories to SPEND the Brexit Dividend on public services, should they ever deliver the no deal Brexit necessary to come into this 1billion permanent per month line of cash… Merkel - has been running surpluses in Germany for yonks - but didn’t spend it wiseley, and now her country are getting poorer by the hour. Talk about “not fixing your roof when the sun was shining” - she’s gone one better: Failing to get a job when you still had legs/Filling your belly whilst still alive, and just beginning to starve rather than all this “Jam Tomorrow” rubbish, where we go without TODAY so some rich chump doesn’t have to answer for the fact that you and yours face a premature austerity-induced end before retirement in all-too-many cases… :frowning:

22

Here in the labour heartlands…where we voted overwhelming in favour of leave…and traditionally would vote for a donkey,as long as it was dressed in red…everyone despises Corbyn.
My late father would turn in his grave…but I’ll vote conservative…just to get us out.
We can work on the finer details,later.

23

My own MP is in a safe seat, but its in the local towns and cities where the problem lies, the people voted leave, the mp’s are all fixated remainers, two out of three are frightened to go canvassing through fear of knocking and breaking a nail or being spoken to too harshly.

For me the Brexit party has done its job, but Nige and Boz could still help each other by standing in these towns and cities, if the MP voted differently to the will of his/her constituents, they need to put a Brexit candidate in the mix.

24

ArcticMonkey:
How can anyone vote Labour when they have a problem with anti-semitism, Corbyn hates our country and was friends with IRA and Hamas. Him and Mcdonnell are dangerous people with worrying Marxist ideologies. But worst still, can you imagine Jabba the Hut Abbott in the cabinet?

Corbyn and McDonnell dangerous to whom? To the workers or to the wealthy? To those fighting for civil rights, or to those trying to suppress them? To those who oppose apartheid regimes, or those who run them?

Anyone parroting the “anti-semitism” line is just taking the side of rich, right-wing Jews against left-wing Jews who work for a living, the latter of whom get smeared as being the wrong kind of Jew to have an opinion on political matters.

25

peirre:
With their association with Momentum and anti Semitic views…

You do realise that Jon Lansman, the leader of Momentum, is himself Jewish?

26

commonrail:
Here in the labour heartlands…where we voted overwhelming in favour of leave…and traditionally would vote for a donkey,as long as it was dressed in red…everyone despises Corbyn.
My late father would turn in his grave…but I’ll vote conservative…just to get us out.
We can work on the finer details,later.

According to
niesr.ac.uk/publications/pr … -summary-1
(Here are details of their funding and independence from wiki:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ … l_Research)
The UK economy is now 2.5% smaller than it would have been had the 2016 vote gone t`other way.
“We estimate that, in the long run, the economy would be 3½ per cent smaller with the deal compared to continued EU membership.”
And the site links to their sources, press release, and full report.

Meanwhile: “It is self-evident that what we have achieved with this deal is the right way forward for the economy, much better than any alternative,” Javid told reporters on the sidelines of meetings at the International Monetary Fund." (Reuters)
Sajid Javid offers no sources, no evidence, just “self evident”…

Yep, the fine tuning can get us from losing a bit of our economy, to losing a lot of it.

27

As I write this post, the poll shows 28% favour Brexit party.
I wonder what those who have ticked that box think of their policy on the NHS? Or on income tax? Defence spending levels? Housing?
Or are they backing them purely on the Brexit issue? So, they will accept any other policies tacked on in order to get out of the EU?

28

Rjan:

peirre:
With their association with Momentum and anti Semitic views…

You do realise that Jon Lansman, the leader of Momentum, is himself Jewish?

Jesus was Jewish - and look what the Jewish establishment did to him! :open_mouth:

29

Is it better for a political party to promise the earth, and then “have no money to deliver” - or go out and get that cash first and THEN argue the toss over “what to spend it on” later. :question:

Our Remainer Establishment must have ALL been bribed a LOT over a LONG period of time - for them to be against picking up the biggest magic money tree in our lifetimes…

Even with the EU rebate - that money must be spent on a rather restricted line of items, that does NOT including “funding the NHS” or “putting more police on the beat” funnily enough…

Plenty of money for the Man Made Climate change “compliances”, Secondary education “De-Grammarfying”, and of course “Benefits for non-disabled people who’ve never paid in”…

Let Farage secure the Brexit Dividend - then throw him under the bus, if you want to. At least let’s save our public services by fully funding them ALL, and reward the mainstream party that delivers all that without raising taxes or borrowing further!

I, for one - don’t want to pay 50% income tax just so Hospitals can made higher malpractice awards, Admin staff can get more paid sickie days, and actual medical staff are not forced to provide a 24/7 operation like this transport industry is obliged to do, at least in the food sector… :unamused:

30

Deffo not labour because I do not want more austerity when the conservatives get in again

31

Franglais:
Or are they backing them purely on the Brexit issue? So, they will accept any other policies tacked on in order to get out of the EU?

That’s the top and bottom of it.

I want to see those politicians,who went against the referendum ousted…and by any means possible

32

commonrail:

Franglais:
Or are they backing them purely on the Brexit issue? So, they will accept any other policies tacked on in order to get out of the EU?

That’s the top and bottom of it.

I want to see those politicians,who went against the referendum ousted…and by any means possible

Clear enough answer. Thanks.

33

Well Johnson has ruled out a pact with the brexit party. Farage now has a choice either field candidates everywhere and risk splitting the brexit vote or focus on Labour/Lib seats.
If he goes all in I can easily see the leave vote being split and Corbyn forming a minority government.

34

Juddian:
No ‘other’ or ‘none of the above’ on the list i see.

So as there’s no BNP option by default it will have to be Nige’s crew.

You’ve genuinely surprised me with that. I read your posts and you seem a measured and intelligent person yet to me the BNP is an unashamedly Neo-■■■■ outfit still peddling holocaust denial amongst other things.

Maybe they aren’t as extreme as they used to be but I still just think of Combat 18 etc.

35

ATJT:

Juddian:
No ‘other’ or ‘none of the above’ on the list i see.

So as there’s no BNP option by default it will have to be Nige’s crew.

You’ve genuinely surprised me with that. I read your posts and you seem a measured and intelligent person yet to me the BNP is an unashamedly Neo-■■■■ outfit still peddling holocaust denial amongst other things.

Maybe they aren’t as extreme as they used to be but I still just think of Combat 18 etc.

Have ever met any BNP members? at least when it was run by Griffin, you know those heavily tattooed skin head thugs which the media like to portray, they didn’t exist.
Don’t go by what was written about them by the MSM, yes they had their faults like every other group and party.
I remember when the Labour party represented working class people, when Liberal Democrats were liberal minded and believed in democracy, when Conservatives believed in conserving the country and all that was good about it, we didn’t desert them, they have deserted us and made no secret of despising those of us who objected by daring to vote to leave their pet project, the EU, and have gone out of their way since to stopping it happening, Johnson’s polished glittered version of May’s surrender deal turd being their current best shot at carrying out the wishes of the electorate? give me a break.

The problem we had, before Farage came along and UKIP surged (i hold no candles for Farage, but respect him because without him we would have had no referendum at all) , was that have had for years 3 main parties indistinguishable from one another with interchangeable MPs, all committed to ever further integration with the EU…the present debacle proof if ever any was needed, the present PM a dyed in the wool europhile until 10 minutes ago, so who’s the real Boris Johnson?..another ex Bullingdon club hooray henry who thinks he’s born to rule and prepared to tread on anyone and any principle to achieve his rightful position, does he still have european union written through his bones or is his damascene shift to wanting to leave the EU real?

When you have two houses of parliament stuffed with those who haven’t a clue how real people live in the country, and increasingly tell them their country is no longer theirs and must be opened to the world and without you ever being asked, or even informed it was happening anyway, changed beyond recognition in the space of 3 decades, don’t be surprised if some people realise there is no one actually speaking for them, no one who raises even the slightest objection to what has happened and being accelerated year on year, and finds another party to vote for who is prepared despite all the might of the state propaganda machine against them to say something different.

Last year you remember we were signed up by a tory govt that once more boringly proved it can’t be trusted, again without a by your leave, to the UN Global Migration Compact, look up for yourself the figures which the UN considers an optimum population for the UK and wonder what your children’s life and country will be like in a few decades time.

Oh and well done for slipping ‘■■■■’ in.

36

adam277:
Well Johnson has ruled out a pact with the brexit party. Farage now has a choice either field candidates everywhere and risk splitting the brexit vote or focus on Labour/Lib seats.
If he goes all in I can easily see the leave vote being split and Corbyn forming a minority government.

Meanwhile, the remain and 2nd referendum vote will be split between Labour/LibDem/Green and Scots Nat/Plaid Cymru where they stand.
Tactical voting, and whether people put Brexit above other issues, such as the NHS, schools etc will come to the fore.

It’s a pity that there isn’t more call for a second referendum, in the sense that this issue can be seperated from other considerations. The 2016 vote was based on promises of easy negotiations and a prosperous future. We know how the negotiations have gone, and now Farage and others have side stepped to want a much harder Brexit.
Cue “undemocratic” shouts…
because I favour a 2nd vote under changed circumstances.

37

adam277:
I would rather keep the daily mail type speech out of this topic. If you don’t like a person or a individual just say so keep the hyperbole to a minimum. :stuck_out_tongue:

I agree Dianne Abbott is a worry, So is Tom Watson.
The thing is Labour’s polices directly benefit us the most by far.
Marxist principles are also not bad in practice. For labour it means housing for all not just the wealthy. Healthcare for all not just the healthy. No two tier school system(I disagree on this point)
etc etc.
To say he is a lunatic is rather unfair. I am not going to comment on the IRA thing as I know nothing about it and the anti-antisemitism thing is a complete smear job. He has never been anti-Semitic.

My main concern regarding Boris is his polices once Brexit is done and how it will impact on the poor and the workers.

This would actually be TRUE if Labour had embraced the Brexit Dividend concept from the start…

without the Brexit dividend - there can only be higher taxes and higher borrowing to deliver even some of Labour’s admittedly popular policies such as “Universal Income” which would benefit my household greatly, since my missus has not worked for years - but received no benefits because she is “not available for work”. “non-Means Tested Benefits” is the key here. I’m sick to death of being told that I’m entitled to NOTHING because I can afford to pay in for my entire household, as per the main tenet of Socialism… We should all be able to reap what we sow - but these days even PENSIONS are on the verge of being “overturned” as if they were some kind of “benefit”…

38

At the end of the day - all those who “don’t bother to vote at all” - will be responsible for whatever government we backdoor into on a “reduced turnout”… :frowning:

I don’t buy into this argument that “A vote for Brexit Party is a vote for Corbyn” for instance.

We heard that old flannel from Cameron about Milliband in the run-up to the 2015 election - and in the end - it wasn’t even close!

According to spread betting prices, the expected result (based on where the money is going) is as follows:

Tories: 340-350 seats.
Labour: 185-208 seats.
Libdems 10-39 seats.
Brexit Party 0-9 seats.
SNP: 20-53 seats.

Stats like that with such a large margin of error - make this election the most unpredictable for many decades, of course…

I would argue that the best result is Corbyn’s tally going up by a single net set - so he stays on as leader of the opposition. keeping Labour resoundingly in the box.
The Tories too - could gain just a single seat, keeping Boris on as Leader…
That would mean that Brexit Party would have to net surge from the decay in the SNP, Libdem, and maybe Plaid vote.

This isn’t as daft as it sounds, since what would happen for example if the SNP “lost” say, 20 seats, but won 5 new ones, including Swinson’s? :stuck_out_tongue: They’d end up on around 20 seats, which is a net loss from what they have now, but also rips the guts out of the Libdems in the process…

It would seem to me that the Remainers have got their vote split a lot more thinly and widely than Brexiteers do!

I can also see the Greens losing their seat to a random mainstream party, with all the recent bad publicity for the “climate” issue - now bringing the “How Dare You” brigade into disrepute. :unamused:

SO… If the Tories AND Labour lose say, 20 seats and win 21 new ones - WHICH ones?

We could do with losing 100% Remainers from across ALL parties - or Boris with a small majority will find it just as impossible to get an actual real Brexit (not his deal) through - due to continuing Remainer prescence at Westminster as a whole, over 100 Remainers lingering in his own party at this time, of course…

Whom should I support?

My local Tory MPs all voted Remain in the referendum, and now extol the virtues of Boris’ crappy deal…

I’m not sure I can trust ANY of them in that regard to deliver anything remotely a decent Brexit for the Brexiteers, and bugger the rest that lost.
I do wish out politicians would quit trying to “Unite the Country” when what they should REALLY do is finally squeeze “Loser’s Consent” out of all those people who didn’t know they were gambling their entire lives away by supporting the lost causes, be they Corbynomics, Man Made Climate Change, or Remaining in the EU when they are about to shaft us rotten finally, if we don’t leave before the Lisbon treaty fully kicks in next year…

Yes. This Election IS “All about Brexit”, and yet the mainstream are trying to make it NOT so. All their efforts are to get Brexit Party to stay on zero seats - so it can then be argued by whatever government results that “The 17.4m have collapsed - otherwise they would have voted for Farage…” I’m therefore going to cancel Brexit on the spot, confident that no one will be able to remove me from office for a full five years, and there will be NO “Rebellion” because it isn’t the Right in this country we worry about “Rising up”… "

No thanks. I think Boris’ Feet need to be held to the fire - until he at least commits to the No Deal Brexit that would, of course steal Farage’s fire outright.

To paraphrase Thatcher’s slogan, whom I never voted for - “Don’t wish for a better future - VOTE for one!”

If people boycott Brexit Party for ANY reason - Brexit dies once and for all. This is the Remainer’s last chance in peacetime to overturn Brexit “peacefully”.

Don’t fall for it!

A Coaltion involving Brexit Party - gets No Deal DONE.

If you’re happy with Boris’ lightweight deal, or it satisfies you as a Remainer - then by all means vote Conservative, if you fear Corbyn otherwise.

I predict that the 3.5m UKIP voters that moved from Farage’s 4m tally in 2015 to collapse the UKIP vote to 500,000 in 2017 by moving to CORBYN - will now move to Brexit Party…

This means that like it or not - Brexit Party WILL be winning seats, and bookmakers already seem to have quietly restricted people from making large bets on just how many seats RANGE that Brexit Party are going to win… NOW you have to be “spot on”… Eg. Not a “over 10 seats 4-1 odds” kind of thing, but rather “10 seats - 16/1” 11 seats 14-1 12 seats 20-1" kind of thing instead.

That’s a ■■■■-poor value bet that, and even THIS gambler won’t be making it!

I’m looking for something like 100-1 to get more than 50 seats… :smiling_imp:

39

ATJT:

Juddian:
No ‘other’ or ‘none of the above’ on the list i see.

So as there’s no BNP option by default it will have to be Nige’s crew.

You’ve genuinely surprised me with that. I read your posts and you seem a measured and intelligent person yet to me the BNP is an unashamedly Neo-■■■■ outfit still peddling holocaust denial amongst other things.

Maybe they aren’t as extreme as they used to be but I still just think of Combat 18 etc.

Nick Griffin was the first person to bring to light the pakistani grooming gangs. There’s youtube footage of him in about 2004/5 on BBC. But off course he was slammed down as just a lying racist

40

Our establishment have shown a balanced indiffence towards ■■■■■■■■■■ gangs of ALL cultures, creeds, and colours.

“Dolphin Square” got discarded as easily as “Rotherham” after all.

All they had to do was “bounce it onto some celebrities” and the Politicians and other high-born folk - were in the clear from the start.
“As surely as Epstein manually throttled himself”…

The traditional way for a Right-Winger to take power - is by force of arms, Eg. Like Napoleon putting down the Left Wing “Reign of Terror” that preceeded his rule.

That Griffen and Robinson come to that “held no high military rank beforehand” - shows their weakness straight out of the gate - for what it is.