Very interesting Buzzer, but just one point, how was Joan of Arc a traitor? 
Here we go:
theguardian.com/politics/20 ⌠rexit-deal
EU member states are demanding free movement of people and access to our fishing grounds .
Well they can go â â â â themselves.
I can see that some people, Buzzer, Bewick, and CarryFast, among others (correct me if Im wrong gentlemen) are keen and eager for Brexit? I see that they are up for and keen for Brexit in whatever form it comes. As they say "Its what we voted for".
Fair enough. I dont agree with you but accept that is your point of view. Is that though true for ALL Brexit voters? Did some who voted for Brexit expect something different? I certainly didnt vote for Brexit, but even after the vote didnt expect us to be in this current situation! Heres a few little thoughts.
Firstly for the conspiracy theoristsâŚ
washingtonpost.com/news/wor ⌠8cc4a81d99
As the Washington Post notes it`s hard to check on what the Brexit campaign was promising pre vote. They took down their web site pretty sharpish.
But there is still info out there of course.
More money for the NHS
Vote Leaveâs battle bus said: âWe send the EU ÂŁ350 million a week. Letâs fund our NHS insteadâ
âInstead of sending ÂŁ350 million per week to Brussels, we will spend it on our priorities like the NHS and education.â â Vote Leave briefing
âAfter we Vote Leave on 23 June, the Government should use some of the billions saved from leaving the EU to give at least a ÂŁ100 million per week cash transfusion to the NHS.â â Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, and Gisela Stuart
There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside
David Davis
10 October 2016
The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want
Michael Gove
9 April 2016
Leaving the EU means we will take back full control of our territorial waters and for the first time in 50 years will be able to grant fishing access for other countries on our terms
Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
3 August 2017
âIf we Vote Leave, we will be able to increase funding to science and still save billionsâ âVote Leave
We were told repeatedly in the run up to the referendum that there was zero chance of German industry allowing us to leave the EU without a good trade deal.
âWithin minutes of a vote for Brexit the CEOâs of Mercedes, BMW, VW and Audi will be knocking down Chancellor Merkelâs door demanding that there be no barriers to German access to the British market," said David Davis, now the Brexit Secretary, during the referendum campaign.
Except it turns out that they are doing the exact opposite.
Germanyâs industrial giants have robustly said they do not want the Single Market put at risk by allowing lower-priced rivals to flood the EU with cheaper products by a British back door outside the EU.
In one of the most egregious examples of scaremongering in modern politics, the Vote Leave campaign released posters announcing: âTurkey (population 76 million) is joining the EU.â
Itâs not.
Turkey applied to join the European Economic Community in 1987 but its chances of joining the EU have all but collapsed. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in an election debate this month that the âfact is clear that Turkey should not become an EU memberâ.
In the final-leg run-up to the referendum last year, David Davis â who was Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union â painted a picture of the UKâs negotiator darting not to Brussels but to Berlin to strike a bespoke trade deal âimmediately after Brexitâ.
He anticipated that similar deals could be reached with the French who would want to protect food and wine exports, with Italians who will want to ensure its fashion industry does not take a knock, and with the Polish.
I won`t go on. You get the idea.
OK, some who voted for Brexit are still happy to go, and want out now. At any price. You are of course entitled to that view.
BUT are those who thought that the Leave Campaign was telling the truth about leaving, who believed we could have a relatively easy and painless exit, and actually be better off, still happy with the way things are turning out?
Brexit at any price may be what some of you voted for.
Is it what 52% voted for â â ?
references:
theguardian.com/politics/ng ⌠ly-dropped
infacts.org/cut-keep-list-top-1 ⌠-promises/
bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-w ⌠xit-509482
Spardo:
Very interesting Buzzer, but just one point, how was Joan of Arc a traitor?
It depends on which side of the inter French power struggle that was the Hundred Years War youâre on and understanding the difference between heresy and treason.As for me Iâd have refused to fight in the Hundred Years War on the grounds that I ainât fighting for the foreign imposed Plantagenet fiefdom and occupation masquerading as âEnglishâ in their private foreign French power struggle.Which is what Joan of Arc should have done and kept well out of it all.Just as Iâd refuse to fight for the EU against Putin.No doubt Buzzer would have had me hung drawn and quartered for the former while itâs anyoneâs guess what Juncker would do about the latter. 
cav551:
Here we go:theguardian.com/politics/20 ⌠rexit-deal
EU member states are demanding free movement of people and access to our fishing grounds .
The EU canât demand anything assuming that secession ( leave ) means what it says on the tin.IE which part of the words return of sovereignty.including immigration policy and access to fishing rights donât they understand.
Oh wait they know that the âreferendumâ was always a one sided scam of remain if we voted remain and remain if we voted leave and no problem of the Brit government,including the Royal perogative,ever standing against the EU.
Spardo:
Very interesting Buzzer, but just one point, how was Joan of Arc a traitor?
Read it again Spardo as clearly I just said she Mrs May should have the same ending as Joan of Arc not that the latter was a traitor, your problem is you always have to nit pick on various posters comments and twist them to try and belittle what they have actually written, may I suggest that if you have nought constructive to say stay silent.
For it is " better to remain silent than to speak out and remove all doubt " Buzzer.
Franglais:
I can see that some people, Buzzer, Bewick, and CarryFast, among others (correct me if Im wrong gentlemen) are keen and eager for Brexit? I see that they are up for and keen for Brexit in whatever form it comes. As they say "Its what we voted for".
Fair enough. I dont agree with you but accept that is your point of view. Is that though true for ALL Brexit voters? Did some who voted for Brexit expect something different? I certainly didnt vote for Brexit, but even after the vote didnt expect us to be in this current situation! Heres a few little thoughts.Firstly for the conspiracy theoristsâŚ
washingtonpost.com/news/wor ⌠8cc4a81d99
As the Washington Post notes it`s hard to check on what the Brexit campaign was promising pre vote. They took down their web site pretty sharpish.But there is still info out there of course.
More money for the NHS
Vote Leaveâs battle bus said: âWe send the EU ÂŁ350 million a week. Letâs fund our NHS insteadâ
âInstead of sending ÂŁ350 million per week to Brussels, we will spend it on our priorities like the NHS and education.â â Vote Leave briefing
âAfter we Vote Leave on 23 June, the Government should use some of the billions saved from leaving the EU to give at least a ÂŁ100 million per week cash transfusion to the NHS.â â Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, and Gisela StuartThere will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside
David Davis
10 October 2016The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want
Michael Gove
9 April 2016Leaving the EU means we will take back full control of our territorial waters and for the first time in 50 years will be able to grant fishing access for other countries on our terms
Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
3 August 2017âIf we Vote Leave, we will be able to increase funding to science and still save billionsâ âVote Leave
We were told repeatedly in the run up to the referendum that there was zero chance of German industry allowing us to leave the EU without a good trade deal.
âWithin minutes of a vote for Brexit the CEOâs of Mercedes, BMW, VW and Audi will be knocking down Chancellor Merkelâs door demanding that there be no barriers to German access to the British market," said David Davis, now the Brexit Secretary, during the referendum campaign.
Except it turns out that they are doing the exact opposite.
Germanyâs industrial giants have robustly said they do not want the Single Market put at risk by allowing lower-priced rivals to flood the EU with cheaper products by a British back door outside the EU.In one of the most egregious examples of scaremongering in modern politics, the Vote Leave campaign released posters announcing: âTurkey (population 76 million) is joining the EU.â
Itâs not.
Turkey applied to join the European Economic Community in 1987 but its chances of joining the EU have all but collapsed. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in an election debate this month that the âfact is clear that Turkey should not become an EU memberâ.In the final-leg run-up to the referendum last year, David Davis â who was Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union â painted a picture of the UKâs negotiator darting not to Brussels but to Berlin to strike a bespoke trade deal âimmediately after Brexitâ.
He anticipated that similar deals could be reached with the French who would want to protect food and wine exports, with Italians who will want to ensure its fashion industry does not take a knock, and with the Polish.I won`t go on. You get the idea.
OK, some who voted for Brexit are still happy to go, and want out now. At any price. You are of course entitled to that view.BUT are those who thought that the Leave Campaign was telling the truth about leaving, who believed we could have a relatively easy and painless exit, and actually be better off, still happy with the way things are turning out?
Brexit at any price may be what some of you voted for.
Is it what 52% voted for â â ?references:
theguardian.com/politics/ng ⌠ly-dropped
infacts.org/cut-keep-list-top-1 ⌠-promises/
bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-w ⌠xit-509482
I know exactly what the Brexit campaign was promising ( full return of sovereignty including immigration and fishing rights ) because Iâve kept all the surplus campaign leaflets which I helped to deliver.Ironically and unknown to me at the time that campaign being organised by Dominic Raabâs team not UKIP.
While the idea of the remain vote trying to infiltrate and discredit the Leave vote by telling us what we voted for is just a typical and all too predictable Federal dictatorship tactic of trashing any type of vote which goes against its interests.Along the lines of keep voting and maintain the indoctrination programme until it gets the answer it wants.Of a similar type which the EU has carried out numerous times before regarding votes which have gone against it.On that note yes we do send billions to the EU in net contributions and yes that cash obviously leaves us with a massive black hole in our domestic spending budget including the NHS.While surely if the EU is so keen on pooling its contributions budget youâd think that it would also be as keen on pooling its health care budget.Remind us what the health care spending budget of Germany is v UK per head of population in that regard.
As for the Washington Post what a surprise the US Federation doesnât like secession either and obviously sees the threat which secession within the EU presents at home regarding its own corrupted Federalist constitution,in the case of states like Texas,in that regard.
Buzzer:
Spardo:
Very interesting Buzzer, but just one point, how was Joan of Arc a traitor?Read it again Spardo as clearly I just said she Mrs May should have the same ending as Joan of Arc not that the latter was a traitor, your problem is you always have to nit pick on various posters comments and twist them to try and belittle what they have actually written, may I suggest that if you have nought constructive to say stay silent.
For it is " better to remain silent than to speak out and remove all doubt " Buzzer.
So why mention Joan of Arc at all then, if not to advocate a traitorâs similar death? If that is what you are actually doing, advocating that Theresa May should be burned at the stake. That, coupled with your famous âchucking immigrants out of aeroplanesâ (obviously youâve been reading up on Argentinaâs âdirty warâ) quote, makes my alleged âbelittlingâ of you pale in comparison with your xenophobic rantings.
Perhaps you should take more note yourself of your last sentence. Though I see you have cocked that quote up too. 
As you no longer live in the UK Spardo surely it is you that should refrain from commenting on what is transpiring in the UK regarding Brexit. You are obviously a âdyed in the woolâ Remainer whereas Buzzer and me are ardent Brexiteers and the quicker the better and we also love our Country and would never leave ! Oh! and we are both UK tax payers even though we are well past our âsell by dateâ ! Also as far as Iâm concerned Macron is a bigger â â â â than any of the recent French Presidents and he is on a par with that jumped up Gay Irish â â â â ! Cheers Bewick.
Spardo:
Buzzer:
Spardo:
Very interesting Buzzer, but just one point, how was Joan of Arc a traitor?Read it again Spardo as clearly I just said she Mrs May should have the same ending as Joan of Arc not that the latter was a traitor, your problem is you always have to nit pick on various posters comments and twist them to try and belittle what they have actually written, may I suggest that if you have nought constructive to say stay silent.
For it is " better to remain silent than to speak out and remove all doubt " Buzzer.So why mention Joan of Arc at all then, if not to advocate a traitorâs similar death? If that is what you are actually doing, advocating that Theresa May should be burned at the stake. That, coupled with your famous âchucking immigrants out of aeroplanesâ (obviously youâve been reading up on Argentinaâs âdirty warâ) quote, makes my alleged âbelittlingâ of you pale in comparison with your xenophobic rantings.
Perhaps you should take more note yourself of your last sentence. Though I see you have cocked that quote up too.
Blimey next youâll be saying that William Joyce should get a pothsumous pardon because trying him for treason was xenophobic.When itâs clear that the definitions of treason and xenophobia are mutually exclusive because foreign nationals canât possibly be guilty of treason against the state which was actually Joyceâs failed defence having made the fatal error of applying for and getting British Citizenship.As for Joan of Arc firstly she suffered a hereticâs end not a traitorâs by the savage standards of the day.While ironically she obviously didnât fit the definition of traitor for the reasons Iâve given.On that note agreed Buzzer got it wrong on all counts because Joan of Arc not only wasnât a traitor she also didnât suffer a traitorâs end either.
As for May it seems strange why Buzzer doesnât seem to to think that every Tory PM from Heath to date and the Party as a whole,except for Powell,are all traitors.Although just deportation to the nearest EU state would do and no need for savage medieval type retribution.Although to be fair even if they were all hung drawn and quartered for treason that still wouldnât fit the definition of xenophobia.
Spardo:
Buzzer:
Spardo:
Very interesting Buzzer, but just one point, how was Joan of Arc a traitor?Read it again Spardo as clearly I just said she Mrs May should have the same ending as Joan of Arc not that the latter was a traitor, your problem is you always have to nit pick on various posters comments and twist them to try and belittle what they have actually written, may I suggest that if you have nought constructive to say stay silent.
For it is " better to remain silent than to speak out and remove all doubt " Buzzer.So why mention Joan of Arc at all then, if not to advocate a traitorâs similar death? If that is what you are actually doing, advocating that Theresa May should be burned at the stake. That, coupled with your famous âchucking immigrants out of aeroplanesâ (obviously youâve been reading up on Argentinaâs âdirty warâ) quote, makes my alleged âbelittlingâ of you pale in comparison with your xenophobic rantings.
Perhaps you should take more note yourself of your last sentence. Though I see you have cocked that quote up too.
Blimey next youâll be saying that William Joyce should get a pothsumous pardon because trying him for treason was xenophobic.When itâs clear that the definitions of treason and xenophobia are mutually exclusive because foreign nationals canât possibly be guilty of treason against the state which was actually Joyceâs failed defence having made the fatal error of applying for and getting British Citizenship.As for Joan of Arc firstly she suffered a hereticâs end not a traitorâs by the savage standards of the day.While ironically she obviously didnât fit the definition of traitor for the reasons Iâve given.On that note agreed Buzzer got it wrong on all counts because Joan of Arc not only wasnât a traitor she also didnât suffer a traitorâs end either.
As for May it seems strange why Buzzer doesnât seem to to think that every Tory PM from Heath to date and the Party as a whole,except for Powell,are all traitors.Although just deportation to the nearest EU state would do and no need for savage medieval type retribution.Although to be fair even if they were all hung drawn and quartered for treason that still wouldnât fit the definition of xenophobia.
I havent read the recent posts on here so if Ive missed anything on this please accept my apologies . Donald Trump has apparently been offensive again (wow) after finding that Macron is wanting an EU army â â ? WTF . Remind me if Im wrong but didnt we stop the Germans from having an army after their last tour of Europe with most of the now EU countries taking full force of their activities. How on earth can anyone who has an ounce of compassion consider this after millions of troops paid the ultimate price for Hitlers dream . And how insensitive at a time like now for this to be mentioned âŚâŚ the reasoning given is to defend ourselves from Russia , China and âŚâŚâŚ wait for it the USA . No matter how you dress it up we would all be eating German sausage if it weren`t from our allies in the states. And Mr Trump mentioned that they are subsidising NATO due to the EU not coughing up enough of our hard earned cash âŚâŚ. Do we really need to think about leaving this set of tossers lets just go
Bewick:
As you no longer live in the UK Spardo surely it is you that should refrain from commenting on what is transpiring in the UK regarding Brexit.
The way that Buzzerâs reference to Joan of Arc seems to have more than expectedly touched a nerve just adds to my suspicions that Spardo is more likely a Macron voting Frenchman rather than a Brit.Or if not has obviously turned native in thinking that France is still the rightful ruler of England in that regard.As Iâve said we backed the wrong side in 1914.
ramone:
I havent read the recent posts on here so if Ive missed anything on this please accept my apologies . Donald Trump has apparently been offensive again (wow) after finding that Macron is wanting an EU army â â ? WTF . Remind me if Im wrong but didnt we stop the Germans from having an army after their last tour of Europe with most of the now EU countries taking full force of their activities. How on earth can anyone who has an ounce of compassion consider this after millions of troops paid the ultimate price for Hitlers dream . And how insensitive at a time like now for this to be mentioned âŚâŚ the reasoning given is to defend ourselves from Russia , China and âŚâŚâŚ wait for it the USA . No matter how you dress it up we would all be eating German sausage if it weren`t from our allies in the states. And Mr Trump mentioned that they are subsidising NATO due to the EU not coughing up enough of our hard earned cash âŚâŚ. Do we really need to think about leaving this set of tossers lets just go
Well said Brother !! The â â â â â in the EU do not like Trump because even though he is an abrasive â â â â he calls a âspade a shovelâ and this is what âthe establishmentâ do not â â â â â â â like one bit, they just cant handle straight talking after years of devious ducking and diving and spouting packs of lies !!
Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
As you no longer live in the UK Spardo surely it is you that should refrain from commenting on what is transpiring in the UK regarding Brexit. You are obviously a âdyed in the woolâ Remainer whereas Buzzer and me are ardent Brexiteers and the quicker the better and we also love our Country and would never leave ! Oh! and we are both UK tax payers even though we are well past our âsell by dateâ ! Also as far as Iâm concerned Macron is a bigger [zb] than any of the recent French Presidents and he is on a par with that jumped up Gay Irish [zb] ! Cheers Bewick.
Whatâs my postcode got to do with anything? A tax liable British citizen just like you, who is likely to get even poorer by this mess. And hereâs me believing all your rhetoric about democracy. And now to rabid racism and xenophobia is added homophobia. You must be so proud. You have the full set.
ramone:
I havent read the recent posts on here so if Ive missed anything on this please accept my apologies . Donald Trump has apparently been offensive again (wow) after finding that Macron is wanting an EU army â â ? WTF .
Thatâs been on the cards for ages.
express.co.uk/news/politics/ ⌠-ministers
Which leaves the question why hasnât the Queen made a clear statement that she is the ultimate commander in chief of the Brit forces,even above the UK PM and that she refuses to,or allow the PM to,delegate or cede any part of that responsibility to EU control ?.
As for Trump itâs obvious that his position,regarding Federations doing what Federations do,is laughably compromised by the fact of the content of and reasoning for the change in the US constitution from Confederation of Sovereign States and the fact that the US war of Federal aggression killed more Americans than WW1/2,Korea and Vietnam combined.
Spardo:
Bewick:
As you no longer live in the UK Spardo surely it is you that should refrain from commenting on what is transpiring in the UK regarding Brexit. You are obviously a âdyed in the woolâ Remainer whereas Buzzer and me are ardent Brexiteers and the quicker the better and we also love our Country and would never leave ! Oh! and we are both UK tax payers even though we are well past our âsell by dateâ ! Also as far as Iâm concerned Macron is a bigger [zb] than any of the recent French Presidents and he is on a par with that jumped up Gay Irish [zb] ! Cheers Bewick.Whatâs my postcode got to do with anything? A tax liable British citizen just like you, who is likely to get even poorer by this mess. And hereâs me believing all your rhetoric about democracy. And now to rabid racism and xenophobia is added homophobia. You must be so proud. You have the full set.
Spardo you take the biscuit you do, if you cant take it from my mucker Bewick donât fling it yourself, Buzzer
Bewick:
The [zb] in the EU do not like Trump because even though he is an abrasive [zb] he calls a âspade a shovelâ and this is what âthe establishmentâ do not [zb] like one bit, they just cant handle straight talking after years of devious ducking and diving and spouting packs of lies !!
Cheers Dennis.
Youre a fan of Pres Trump? Still? After today when [news.sky.com/story/trump-joins- ... s-11549901](https://news.sky.com/story/trump-joins-world-leaders-in-france-for-wwi-armistice-day-commemorations-11549901) he couldnt be arsed to visit a US war grave today 10th NovâŚbecause it was âŚwetâŚ
The one who calls a âspade a shovelâ ?
To pick a few of his sayings at random from the following linksâŚ
âWe are keeping one promise after another.â
The Fact Checkerâs Trump Promise Tracker shows that of Trumpâs 100-day promises, he had kept six, broken five and taken no action on more than half of his promises.
âWeâre the highest taxed nation in the world.â
Trump is simply wrong when he says the United States is the highest taxed nation in the world. The Pew Research Center, using 2014 data, found that the tax bill for Americans, under various scenarios, is below average for developed countriesâŚ
JAN. 28 âThe coverage about me in the @nytimes and the @washingtonpost has been so false and angry that the Times actually apologized to its dwindling subscribers and readers.â (It never apologized.)
washingtonpost.com/graphics ⌠bde46e4e67
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/ ⌠-lies.html
Of course it could all be âfake newsâ from the US press couldnt it? He could of course go to law to sue them if so. But maybe he is a quiet, modest, shrinking violet, not about to make a fuss about such things? Possible, apart from the 1,900 litigations he and his companies have made I spose. (And the 1,450 he has defended)
No one, certainly not me, is saying that all US Presidents, or politicians from the US and everywhere are immune to exaggeration and lies, but it is somewhat odd that probably the biggest liar of all, is the one who makes such a fuss about dishonesty in others?
C.F. might be tempted to say "you coudnt make it up". Id say someone certainly is making it up!
Spardo:
Whatâs my postcode got to do with anything? A tax liable British citizen just like you, who is likely to get even poorer by this mess. And hereâs me believing all your rhetoric about democracy
Federalists donât know the meaning of democracy.
Define âpoorerâ assuming you canât possibly mean that us paying billions less each year to the EU doesnât by definition mean billions more going into the UK economy or the resulting effects on the economy of your host state of residence,âifâ we actually get Brexit meaning an end to the UK contribution to the EU budget.Let me guess youâll now go to the default EU rhetoric that Brits are too stupid to do anything for themselves and therefore are totally dependent on EU imports which we have to print and borrow the cash to pay for and which the vindictive Federalist rabble will embargo to bring us to our knees.
Franglais:
Bewick:
The [zb] in the EU do not like Trump because even though he is an abrasive [zb] he calls a âspade a shovelâ and this is what âthe establishmentâ do not [zb] like one bit, they just cant handle straight talking after years of devious ducking and diving and spouting packs of lies !!
Cheers Dennis.You
re a fan of Pres Trump? Still? After today when [news.sky.com/story/trump-joins- ... s-11549901](https://news.sky.com/story/trump-joins-world-leaders-in-france-for-wwi-armistice-day-commemorations-11549901) he couldnt be arsed to visit a US war grave today 10th NovâŚbecause it was âŚwetâŚ
The one who calls a âspade a shovelâ ?
To pick a few of his sayings at random from the following linksâŚ
âWe are keeping one promise after another.â
The Fact Checkerâs Trump Promise Tracker shows that of Trumpâs 100-day promises, he had kept six, broken five and taken no action on more than half of his promises.
âWeâre the highest taxed nation in the world.â
Trump is simply wrong when he says the United States is the highest taxed nation in the world. The Pew Research Center, using 2014 data, found that the tax bill for Americans, under various scenarios, is below average for developed countriesâŚ
JAN. 28 âThe coverage about me in the @nytimes and the @washingtonpost has been so false and angry that the Times actually apologized to its dwindling subscribers and readers.â (It never apologized.)
washingtonpost.com/graphics ⌠bde46e4e67
nytimes.com/interactive/2017 ⌠-lies.htmlOf course it could all be âfake newsâ from the US press couldn
t it? He could of course go to law to sue them if so. But maybe he is a quiet, modest, shrinking violet, not about to make a fuss about such things? Possible, apart from the 1,900 litigations he and his companies have made I spose. (And the 1,450 he has defended)No one, certainly not me, is saying that all US Presidents, or politicians from the US and everywhere are immune to exaggeration and lies, but it is somewhat odd that probably the biggest liar of all, is the one who makes such a fuss about dishonesty in others?
C.F. might be tempted to say "you coudnt make it up". Id say someone certainly is making it up!
Trump,assuming it is actually Trump and not an establishment plant double or has been compromised,canât deliver on his promises because like Brexit here the US is applying a selective one sided version of democracy in which vote Trump means get Hilary and Obama just as we vote Leave and get Remain.