clearance

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Carryfast:

Franglais:

Carryfast:
So tell me how I’ve imported numerous US car parts without needing to go to East Midlands airport in person to pay the customs before they’d release the goods from the airport ?.While Southampton and Felixtowe docks would obviously have a queue of customers a mile long all waiting to pay their relevant import duties and VAT before any container was allowed to leave.

gov.uk/government/publicati … post-users
Almost certainly find the packages were marked as “Gift”, “Personal Goods” or “No Commercial Value” or somesuch. If under £139 value (declared value) there is no duty payable.
Ive ordered T-shirts from the US and had to collect the parcel from the local sorting office and pay duty. Only a few quid admittedly. More often though Ive had the same experience as you, and have had goods from other non EU countries arrive without hassle and tax issues. If you paid no duty on major items its the same as driving at 40 in a 30 zone with no fines: you got away with it. Containers from docks are either in free EU circulation, or wont be released without Customs clearance if they are from outside the EU.

No it was all subject to duty ( lots ) and I got a phone call from the shipper telling me that my stuff was at their warehouse and would be delivered as soon as I sent them the duty due on it ( cashless electronic transaction ).It then arrived in just the same way and on the same truck as the rest of their domestic UK deliveries for the day that morning.While in the case of non bonded operators the duty would have been paid by me directly to HMC. :unamused:.As for containers tell us why wouldn’t the goods be released from the docks on landing assuming that the customer had sent the relevant payment to HMC as soon as the ship had docked.While you’ve actually admitted yourself that you’ve collected goods subject to duty and paid it at the point of collection or in my case delevery.Which created any border hold up how ?.

So, goods from the EU currently are delivered to your door with any VAT paid by you at PoS to the vendor. Non EU goods are stored in a warehouse until import plus VAT is paid and is then delivered to you. clearly slower and more expensive. So, if all EU goods are treated this way post Brexit, well need more parking/warehouses/clerks etc. All costs money and takes time. Containers can be released as soon as duties paid, but in business it doesnt pay to give out taxes on goods until the taxes are received from the customer. This borrowed money is an extra expense for business, and will ultimately be paid by us, the end user. The taxes etc could be paid before the goods arrive, but again thats the importer paying out monies they havent yet received.

42

Franglais:
So, goods from the EU currently are delivered to your door with any VAT paid by you at PoS to the vendor. Non EU goods are stored in a warehouse until import plus VAT is paid and is then delivered to you. clearly slower and more expensive. So, if all EU goods are treated this way post Brexit, well need more parking/warehouses/clerks etc. All costs money and takes time. Containers can be released as soon as duties paid, but in business it doesnt pay to give out taxes on goods until the taxes are received from the customer. This borrowed money is an extra expense for business, and will ultimately be paid by us, the end user. The taxes etc could be paid before the goods arrive, but again thats the importer paying out monies they havent yet received.

How do you reach the conclusion that relevant taxes aren’t charged on EU imports at the point of delivery to the customer only non EU imports are.Which is total bs.So by your logic how can any shipper possibly offer exactly the same next day ‘delivery’ for stuff imported from the US as they offer on stuff imported from Germany ?.Or retailers hold both EU and non EU ( Chinese ? ) imported stock on their shelves until sale.Or for that matter how does Denmark make sure that it’s local car purchase taxes are met in the case of German car imports, especially if bought in Luxembourg,let alone inter state US trade,with no border crossings and no customs in place on the respective borders at all.As for taxes being paid by the shipper or carrier before the goods arrive.You seem to have a problem with understanding the difference between a customs bond v a customs payment.In all cases it’s the customer who pays the duties not the shipper or the carrier unless the customer defaults.In which case that obviously applies in the case of Danish/EU car imports too unless the Danish government is in the habit of allowing Danish car buyers to just walk into the country with a personal import bought tax paid in Lux thereby saving themselves almost 100 % on the domestic price. :unamused:

43

Franglais:
Too much to lay all the credit for peace at the feet of the EU. Yeah, agreed. Being mostly in NATO and against a common foe was mostly it. But in the future a common economic interest can do nothing but help towards a peaceful future.

Do the countries of the EU really have common economic interest under the present system?
Germany and France introduced new laws to control visiting workers, which was immediately received protests from countries like Poland and even if they share the economic interests, there is a great deal of tension between EU member states and the EU over various polices, with those countries feeling that policies are being imposed upon them and the EU threatening action if they’re not implemented. There are even splinter groups of nations forming alliances within the EU, doesn’t bode well for continued harmony.

Franglais:
Some of our present dislike of the EU is the influx of cheap labour isn`t it? But my point is that if we kept the newly free, and ambitious, EE countries out after 1989, may have see us in a more unstable Europe today?

Who knows what would have happened, but I’m sure there are some in the corridors of power in the EU who are now regretting certain former Communist states joining, believing they are making the EU far more unstable.

For free movement of people, especially when it concerns the right to work, to operate fairly then you need the economies of the countries taking part to be reasonably equal or you get the mass movement of workers as we saw across Europe.

Franglais:

muckles:
Big government in Westminster and the EU are really part of the same thing, hence why so many on the neo-liberal side in UK politics so keen on EU membership. The difference is we cannot elect EU officials who wield so much power, in fact several EU countries and their opposition in the case of the UK were powerless to stop Juncker to stop Junker being voted in as the President of the EU, this is not some civil service jobs, but a highly influential position, not to mention his appointment of Martin Selmayr which due consternation from even those pro-EU politicians.

It is a far from perfect system, but the Commissioners are only there for 5 years and they are all proposed by National Governments arent they? We dont elect the Chancellor of the Exchequer here do we? Who would have voted to put Boris in as Foreign Secretary! :smiley: We dont even elect a Prime Minister do we. Mid term change of party political leader and there we are. OK Im comparing two flawed systems but if the EU system is so bad, what system is better?

We have problems in the UK over governments using the Royal prerogative to appoint its own cronies, but generally the top jobs are given to MP’s elected by the people. Commissioners aren’t elected into the EU let alone into the jobs they take, this isn’t just an issue highlighted by those who are anti-EU, but increasingly by those who are pro-EU.

Franglais:
So do you believe that a UK out of the EU would be in a stronger position to resist Globalisation? Im trying to avoid party politics, and largely it is a non-partisan issue, but the current Gov seem (to me at least) to be more for increased globalisation outside of the EU. Sure, they speak of a new independence and better world wide opportunities. Brave words and hopeful rhetoric, inspiring maybe. But I see a smaller country more at the mercy of multi national "mega corp". As members of the EU we have more clout. Your scepticism and distrust of politicians is shared by me. Id rather our own home grown ones were given no extra powers by us leaving the EU!
A stronger economy will surely have happier and less extreme citizens?

We only have more clout against globalisation in the EU, if the EU and it’s leading politicians want to fight against globalisation and big business.
Maybe Brexit and the unrest across Europe will finally force the EU into the reforms it has been unwilling to deliver for so many years, both democratically and in policy direction, but it’s still a big maybe. However without it there would not be any reason for those at the top to change, after all it worked well them and I feel they’ll do every thing they can to avoid any realistic reforms.

As for our own bunch, I firmly believe the leading Brexiteers have their own agenda, which will include selling us short, but now the people have been awakened politically we can also get rid of them.

44

muckles:
Do the countries of the EU really have common economic interest under the present system?
Germany and France introduced new laws to control visiting workers, which was immediately received protests from countries like Poland and even if they share the economic interests, there is a great deal of tension between EU member states and the EU over various polices, with those countries feeling that policies are being imposed upon them and the EU threatening action if they’re not implemented. There are even splinter groups of nations forming alliances within the EU, doesn’t bode well for continued harmony.

muckles:
Who knows what would have happened, but I’m sure there are some in the corridors of power in the EU who are now regretting certain former Communist states joining, believing they are making the EU far more unstable.
For free movement of people, especially when it concerns the right to work, to operate fairly then you need the economies of the countries taking part to be reasonably equal or you get the mass movement of workers as we saw across Europe.

Inviting in the ex-Com countries has been costly in economic terms I agree. And that is causing tensions in the EU. All true. Not where we wanted to be, a smaller club of the richer western countries would have been lovely. But it wasnt a long term planned entry for those countries was it? When the wall came down we had these poorer countries wanting a leg up. Inviting them in was the choice made. Maybe it was too rapid an entry, but there would have been risks in keeping them out longer woudnt there? I`m not being too melodramatic am I? Maybe I am? Poor countries at the edge of a richer one invites problems.
We are where we are because of events, not some intrinsic aim or plan of the EU. Sure some favour a more unified approach than I do, but I think the pendulum is swinging away from them now.

muckles:
We have problems in the UK over governments using the Royal prerogative to appoint its own cronies, but generally the top jobs are given to MP’s elected by the people. Commissioners aren’t elected into the EU let alone into the jobs they take, this isn’t just an issue highlighted by those who are anti-EU, but increasingly by those who are pro-EU.

muckles:
We only have more clout against globalisation in the EU, if the EU and it’s leading politicians want to fight against globalisation and big business.
Maybe Brexit and the unrest across Europe will finally force the EU into the reforms it has been unwilling to deliver for so many years, both democratically and in policy direction, but it’s still a big maybe. However without it there would not be any reason for those at the top to change, after all it worked well them and I feel they’ll do every thing they can to avoid any realistic reforms.

As for our own bunch, I firmly believe the leading Brexiteers have their own agenda, which will include selling us short, but now the people have been awakened politically we can also get rid of them.

News this morning suggests another move to oust May and replace her with Johnson. If that happens the top job will go to someone elected as a representative of a Uxbridge and given the keys to the Country!
OK, leaving that aside if we accept the old maxim that “power corrupts etc” then all long term (experienced and proven) leaders will be aloof and removed from the people. A major problem, but what if they are elected too often? Afraid to build the Nuclear Station as they cant afford to loose votes? Wont make long term investment because they are afraid of immediate taxes.
We want elected officials so they are accountable, but see the advantage of those who are above the “greasy pole” world of party politics dont we? I think I see and accept the same issues as you do, but I lean more to thinking the EU is better than the alternatives Ive seen.

45

"Re: TIR
Unread postby GasGas » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:55 pm

As member of the EU, the UK is included in the Geneva TIR agreement.

That won’t necessarily be the case if we leave the EU without agreement.

The RHA has published loads on this…it’s all alarmist project fear nonsense of course, because our brave boys will storm the channel just like we did in 1944 and teach those foreigners a lesson they won’t forget…or something.

We’ll still want to buy their wine, cars, trucks, tyres, butter, cheese etc. They will still want to buy our…er…heritage shortcakes. No need to panic. May’s just signed a trade deal with some African countries, that’ll do us. Nigel Farage for London mayor, Putin for PM, Trump for Queen etc etc."

Is the RHA knowledgeable?

46

Optimum:
"Re: TIR
Unread postby GasGas » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:55 pm

As member of the EU, the UK is included in the Geneva TIR agreement.

That won’t necessarily be the case if we leave the EU without agreement.
"
Is the RHA knowledgeable?

The UK was a TIR member in its own right long before it joined the EU.

It would be interesting to find out exactly why anyone would think that it would no longer be eligible for TIR membership just because it’s left the poxy EU.It would obviously totally defeat the object of the TIR in that case.More project fear bs.Just like the idea that all non EU trade is subject to massive non existent delays for clearance. :unamused:

On that note picture the scene when China and Japan etc are told that all non EU imports will be subject to a massive delays for clearance at the docks unless they join the EU. :laughing:

47

Franglais:
A major problem, but what if they are elected too often? Afraid to build the Nuclear Station as they cant afford to loose votes? Wont make long term investment because they are afraid of immediate taxes.
.

I disagree with you about the EU but this goes to the root of a lot of problems in this country. Decisions that should have been made 20 plus years ago are still being put off Heathrow (or not) is just one example that politicians won’t make the decision because they may be out of a job in a few years

48

kcrussell25:

Franglais:
A major problem, but what if they are elected too often? Afraid to build the Nuclear Station as they cant afford to loose votes? Wont make long term investment because they are afraid of immediate taxes.
.

I disagree with you about the EU but this goes to the root of a lot of problems in this country. Decisions that should have been made 20 plus years ago are still being put off Heathrow (or not) is just one example that politicians won’t make the decision because they may be out of a job in a few years

I won`t argue with you at all.

49

Franglais:

kcrussell25:
I disagree with you about the EU but this goes to the root of a lot of problems in this country. Decisions that should have been made 20 plus years ago are still being put off Heathrow (or not) is just one example that politicians won’t make the decision because they may be out of a job in a few years

I won`t argue with you at all.

The Heathrow issue has nothing to do with the EU and more to do with the fact that some know that the agenda is all about a bunch of NIMBY’s around the country intending to force an unsustainable,let alone dangerous,increased level of aircraft movements into the South East.So as usual to minimise their own exposure to the country’s transport requirement.It’s anyone’s guess why Raab is one of the only MP’s around Heathrow who is supportive of the zb deal.If that’s supposedly Brexit in action then I’d rather vote for the poxy LibDems. :unamused:

50

Optimum:
"Re: TIR
Unread postby GasGas » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:55 pm

As member of the EU, the UK is included in the Geneva TIR agreement.

That won’t necessarily be the case if we leave the EU without agreement.

The RHA has published loads on this…it’s all alarmist project fear nonsense of course, because our brave boys will storm the channel just like we did in 1944 and teach those foreigners a lesson they won’t forget…or something.

We’ll still want to buy their wine, cars, trucks, tyres, butter, cheese etc. They will still want to buy our…er…heritage shortcakes. No need to panic. May’s just signed a trade deal with some African countries, that’ll do us. Nigel Farage for London mayor, Putin for PM, Trump for Queen etc etc."

Is the RHA knowledgeable?

Both the FTA and the EU state that each EU member state is a contracting party to the TIR convention in its own right, however the EU is seen as one area as regards TIR movements.

Although each EU Member State is a Contracting Party to the TIR Convention, the European Union is considered to be a single territory for the purposes of the TIR procedure.

https://fta.co.uk/FTA/media/Documents/International/17158_KBT_-_10_ways_to_make_borders_work_hi_res.pdf

That said it does have the benefit of facilitating
both import and export trade and is available without
additional political negotiation as the UK is already a
member of the TIR Convention in its own right.

Can’t find exactly what the RHA say as I’m not a member of it, I assume something has been lost in translation between them and Gas Gas’s post.

The FTA goes on to say the TIR system could be used as a back up in the event of a no-deal situation, although it’s a very unsatisfactory solution, they like many of us, want a negotiated solution and some clarity quickly so we know what we are doing.

51

muckles:
some clarity quickly so we know what we are doing.

Amen.

52

Franglais:
News this morning suggests another move to oust May and replace her with Johnson. If that happens the top job will go to someone elected as a representative of a Uxbridge and given the keys to the Country!
OK, leaving that aside if we accept the old maxim that “power corrupts etc” then all long term (experienced and proven) leaders will be aloof and removed from the people. A major problem, but what if they are elected too often? Afraid to build the Nuclear Station as they cant afford to loose votes? Wont make long term investment because they are afraid of immediate taxes.
We want elected officials so they are accountable, but see the advantage of those who are above the “greasy pole” world of party politics dont we? I think I see and accept the same issues as you do, but I lean more to thinking the EU is better than the alternatives Ive seen.

No surprise that you seem to have no problems with the MP’s for Bexley,or Grantham,or Huntingdon,or Sedgefield,or Witney signing us up to being ruled by unelected EU Commissioners and totally foreign majority vote with its mandate not even in this country.Typically laughable hypocritical Remoaner double standards applied as and when they suit you.Yes we know exactly where your ‘leaning’ ( understatement ) allegiance is and it certainly ain’t towards this country.You’re simply an EU Federalist and the zb EU flag is where your allegiance is nothing more nothing less.

53

reading your posts I often think we aren’t really that far apart regards our views on politics.

Franglais:
Inviting in the ex-Com countries has been costly in economic terms I agree. And that is causing tensions in the EU. All true. Not where we wanted to be, a smaller club of the richer western countries would have been lovely. But it wasnt a long term planned entry for those countries was it? When the wall came down we had these poorer countries wanting a leg up. Inviting them in was the choice made. Maybe it was too rapid an entry, but there would have been risks in keeping them out longer woudnt there? I`m not being too melodramatic am I? Maybe I am? Poor countries at the edge of a richer one invites problems.
We are where we are because of events, not some intrinsic aim or plan of the EU. Sure some favour a more unified approach than I do, but I think the pendulum is swinging away from them now.

I personally think the push to get the Former Communist Bloc countries into the EU was partly EU expansionist ideology and a desire for an easy supply of cheap labour.

Much this was lead by our very own Tony Blair, a man who seemed to have a desire to go down in history as a great statesman and will be remembered by most of us as the man who lied so he could commit our forces to an illegal war which cost many thousands of lives and made the World a far more unstable place.
I personally don’t have a problem with the former communist bloc countries as EU members, but the integration wasn’t handled well, maybe so many countries entering at once was too much of a challenge and several EU countries found their labour laws fell foul of EU laws, when they tried to implement their own national laws on to companies employing migrant workers.

Franglais:

muckles:
As for our own bunch, I firmly believe the leading Brexiteers have their own agenda, which will include selling us short, but now the people have been awakened politically we can also get rid of them.

News this morning suggests another move to oust May and replace her with Johnson. If that happens the top job will go to someone elected as a representative of a Uxbridge and given the keys to the Country!
OK, leaving that aside if we accept the old maxim that “power corrupts etc” then all long term (experienced and proven) leaders will be aloof and removed from the people. A major problem, but what if they are elected too often? Afraid to build the Nuclear Station as they cant afford to loose votes? Wont make long term investment because they are afraid of immediate taxes.
We want elected officials so they are accountable, but see the advantage of those who are above the “greasy pole” world of party politics dont we? I think I see and accept the same issues as you do, but I lean more to thinking the EU is better than the alternatives Ive seen.

Our system isn’t perfect and it does need continual reform, but the Prime Minister of this country is a member of the party that has been elected to run the country, excepting the Royal Prerogative, the Prime Minister can’t really push through policy on their own, they need cabinet and parliamentary approval, so that includes the person that represents you, the person you can vote out at the next election. As for being able to push through unpopular policies due to arrogance, I suppose you mean things like invading Iraq.

As I said before I would have liked to have seen reform of the EU and how it operated, with the political changes in Europe this might happen, but I’m sure there will be much resistance, although there would have been no hope of reform without the upheaval, as both EU and national politicians seemed very happy with the system.

54

muckles:
reading your posts I often think we aren’t really that far apart regards our views on politics.

Agree there.

I think the EU is still salvageable.
You think its now too far gone? I can see where youre coming from.
Yes, it is where it is because of a mixture of national economics, security issues, idealistic dreams for a better world, and personal greed for money and power. All seasoned with hubris and borderline psychopathic behaviour.
But was the world of politics never such? :smiley:
Dr David Owen wrote well about the Bush/Blair relationship, and their time.
Not quite as realistic as Francis Urquart`s biography by Michael Dobbs maybe?

Change to the system by those who risen through it to positions of power? I share your scepticism.
And keeping to the lighter theme if I may, it is covered well by “Yes Minister” in explaining that in opposition politicos want Freedom of Information for the public ggod, in power they want Official Secrets for the public good.

55

If it has been so great whilst we were in bed with 27 foreigners can you explain STACK?

When I started going abroad the crossing took an hour and a quarter, hence the slogan Dover to the Continent in 75 minutes, we carried T forms or a Carnet TIR and turned up at Dover with a tank of red or an empty open one. There were no vehicles booked on a ferry, there was reasonable food onboard and Barnacle Bills for last minute shopping, showers or sandwich spread.

We had no mobile phones, trackers, sat nav or social media. The loads all got there, and back without much interference!

56

2017 tunnel 1.6million trucks. Dover 2.6 m
“T” forms 1990-ish? Dover (no tunnel) 1million trucks…
There is about four times as much cross channel traffic today as then, and isn`t there less parking in Dover now?

57

Franglais:
2017 tunnel 1.6million trucks. Dover 2.6 m
“T” forms 1990-ish? Dover (no tunnel) 1million trucks…
There is about four times as much cross channel traffic today as then, and isn`t there less parking in Dover now?

Isn’t there also a lot less ferry capacity too.IE Dover-Zeebrugge,Ostende,Dunkirk, and Folkestone-Boulogne and loss of other North Sea crossings in the form of Harwich-Hamburg,Bremerhaven,Esbjerg,Gothenburg.Most of that traffic now goes through Kent with the lose lose of less crossing capacity when it gets there.Remind us what caused the closure of all those sea routes and resulting loss of UK to mainland Europe crossing options and capacity.

Meanwhile four times as much freight traffic but remind us how much less UK based hauliers involved in carrying it and why ?.So not only a massive trade deficit but also even our road transport industry loses out on shifting all those imports.What’s in this for us other than paying and being ruled by the EU for the privilege while being told it’s good for us. :unamused: