Driver's Hours And Yard Practices

Hello everyone!
I’m a new member and this is my first post.
I have a few questions and points to put to all you seasoned truckers out there, to get your thoughts and feedback.

Bit of a long one, so bear with me!
I work for a small company that has 4 vans and one 18t truck, which I drive. I’ve held the Class 2 licence for just over 3yrs.
End of last summer we had a new Transport Coordinator start with us. Previously she had worked for a small company looking after a fleet of vans. I think because of the 18t she needed to be put on the CPC Management course to be a “proper” transport manager. So she had her course in March, just before lockdown. Before that from the New Year, to help her keep track of my hours she asked me to give her my driving time at each stop that I did on my routes. Which I willing did, giving her the accumulated time on my tacho. I remember the second occasion I gave her my time she questioned it and I just explained that the time counts up on the tacho. (I know some tachos count down from 4.5hrs, but mine counts up) So that was the accumulated time. I think she was expecting me to give her the time between each stop. But all was fine, and for weeks at every interval I stopped at a delivery or collection or for a break I’d give her my driving time from my tacho.
After her 2 week course, the Monday she came back to work, I had to go from our depot in Basingstoke to Bristol. Because there was an accident on the M4 and I couldn’t find the place I was going to it took me about an hour longer than it should’ve. When I arrived I gave her my driving time, as usual. She asked if I’d got my calculations right, because I’d left at this time and it was now this time so that’s this long. I said that the time I had given her was from my tacho, and there was an accident etc. She replied that sitting in traffic still counts as driving time.
On the way back I had to stop for my 45, and I called the DVSA to check. They agreed with me that driving time is only when the wheels are turning. Irrespective of how long I’ve been sat at the wheel. So when I got back to the office I spoke to her quietly and privately and told her that the times I give her were indeed my driving hours. She was adamant I was wrong, took me into the office in front of everyone and told me I was wrong again, explaining again the time I’d left, time I’d arrived etc. I said well that’s what it’s got on my tacho and that’s what they go by, meaning DVSA. She said “No they don’t!” and gave me a load of her course paperwork to read.
Now I’ve asked at least 5 other drivers, one being a Transport Manager, about this and they all agree with me. I have also emailed DVSA and asked them the same question, giving the full Basingstoke to Bristol story. They have come back to me stating that driving time is the accumulated time on my tacho, not the hours I’ve been sat at the wheel. A day or so later she texted me to tell me futher that an owner of a trucking company had told her to tell me that I need to put my tacho onto POA or break when I stop in traffic. Incidentally she failed her exam and has to resit it.

What are your thoughts on this?

Also. She’s set new rules on vehicle movement in the yard, which is private land. No vehicle can be moved without full checks being carried out. Even if only being moved within the yard.
Is this reasonable? I ask because very often it’s not a driver who moves the vehicles, sometimes it’s one of the warehouse guys. Who I can guarantee will not do the full checks, if any. And sometimes the truck needs to be moved. I am the ONLY person who holds an HGV licence in the whole company, so by rights I am the only person who can or should move the truck.
When testing brake lights on the vehicles we either put a weight on the brake pedal, or a pole wedged safely between brake pedal and seat. Obviously with the ignition on ONLY and not with the engine running. She says this is a major H&S breach. Is it? I’ve asked HSE but they just said they’d need to investigate… Driver training says to ask someone to stand at the back of the vehicle and assist, or to back upto a reflective surface. But there are no reflective surfaces and we are often the only person in the building if we’re going out early. And if she’s so hot on H&S then surely, as I say, I am the ONLY person who should ever move the truck.
So my questions are…

Is she being unreasonable by insisting that vehicle checks be done if only moving a vehicle in the yard?

Is placing a pole or weight on a brake pedal with ignition on but engine off a H&S breach? And if so should nobody other than me EVER move the truck?

I’m right about driving hours aren’t I?

Thoughts and opinions on all this greatly appreciated.

Thank you all.

SHE IS WRONG SHE NEEDS TO GO BACK AND DO HER CPC AGAIN

frogman:
SHE IS WRONG SHE NEEDS TO GO BACK AND DO HER CPC AGAIN

She needs a carreer change, she sounds like the new generation of transport staff who know the far end of ■■■■ all about the job in REAL terms, who just love to agitate drivers with her stupid bloody rules she has made up just to justify her existence. …just what the job needs.
Just take a back seat mate, do as she says, and give her enough rope and she will eventually hang herself with her own self importance and ignorance.

Have yourself a laugh and send her a link to this thread after a few more opinions are stated.
Tell her you just put it on here to enquire what was and wasn’t right.and all this came up.

She’s a woman, she’ll always be right even when she’s wrong. The end

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Perhaps the TM is confusing driving time and duty time. You could be proactive and go for a short run with her (lets say 15 mins) and its fairly easy to show that driving time and duty time differ - do a load of stop start with +30 secs stopped and it will show the difference. Isn’t or wasn’t this the whole point a while back of the tacos being set to show rest if driving for less than a minute (less than 31 secs as its the nearest minute)
Is there a reason for the fixation on your travel times? Perhaps to make it easier for the TM mot extract the info they want, then they could fit a cheap and cheerful telematics, logger or tracker. It would at least avoid the conflict between the times you can give and the times the TM wants.

Ask what her concerns are about moving vehicles in the yard. It does sound rather nonsensical It is possible that she is concerned about missing mileage, but if you are in small yard that is hardly likely to happen.
The main challenge that is happening at your site is the age old one of “communication”. It sounds like the TM is not communicating how and hwy they want these things done.

Bandit5070:
She was adamant I was wrong, took me into the office in front of everyone and told me I was wrong again, explaining again the time I’d left, time I’d arrived etc.

She has…

NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to humiliate you over working practices. This is workplace bullying.

NEVER let any manager, FLM, foreman or whoever try and embarrass you in front of other staff members.

The argument is between you and her…no one else, keep it that way by saying ‘you want to talk to me about this, then close the door’.

yourhavingalarf:

Bandit5070:
She was adamant I was wrong, took me into the office in front of everyone and told me I was wrong again, explaining again the time I’d left, time I’d arrived etc.

She has…

NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to humiliate you over working practices. This is workplace bullying.

NEVER let any manager, FLM, foreman or whoever try and embarrass you in front of other staff members.

The argument is between you and her…no one else, keep it that way by saying ‘you want to talk to me about this, then close the door’.

This for starters. If people want to play stupid games they deserve to win very stupid prizes. A word with her superior and possibly a formal grievance submitting would be my first course of action.

As for arguing the toss about your driving hours, jeez! Is it any wonder she failed her CPC. I wouldn’t be surprised if she fails it a second time.

To be fair the OP is the kind of nightmare employee that has made her like she is.

It’s her yard she can ask you to do what she wants, though whether you do it or leave is up to you…

Emailing DVSA and HSE for answers, instead of going to the people above her and asking■■? Not getting the answers wanted so coming on here for moral support from other drivers■■?

Industry is full of snowflakes nowadays…

Dunno how you are paid mate, hourly or salary? If it was me and I was salaried I’d be keeping schtum about the driving hours, let her think that you’re maxing your driving hours out, eventually you’ll have paid time off. Win win.

classic example .
show her this pic…
play her at her own game.
do exactly what she wants whilst keeping youself correct.
if she disagrees do not comply and let her bring it to the attention of those in charge above her,then see her be ridiculed as a clueless bint…job done.

It would be hard to find a better example of the maxim “A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing”

If you are on hourly pay, then just roll with it. Max out your hours, then when someone higher up the heap finds that you are earning more than they are, and there is a court of enquiry, you can look them in the eye and tell them that you have been doing exactly as you have been told.
I am imagining that the transport operation is “own account,” ie you don’t carry out haulage work for third parties. If so, then as far as I know, a CPC holder is not required as TM. As you appear to know a lot more about the job than she does, they can chop her up and let you run it.
Sorted!!!

They agreed with me that driving time is only when the wheels are turning. Irrespective of how long I’ve been sat at the wheel

Correct under EU regs

Under UK domestic regs it is time behind the wheel and that is probably where your new TM is getting mixed up

It is easy enough for anyone even a TM to get hold of the EU regs and read them within seconds

It should be pointed out to her that the tachograph which is infinitely more intelligent than she is AUTOMATICALLY changes mode to other work from driving and decides when to record it as other work and not driving in line with the EU regulations. And point out that when it comes to enforcement it is the information from the tachograph that the law enforcement agencies use, not your delivery schedule.

If she’d hauled me into the office and given me a drubbing down the first words out my mouth would’ve been along the lines of “given you actually failed the course you’re the last person who should be telling me what is and isn’t right” and said very loudly so absolutely everyone could hear it. And when she mentioned about the putting it on break or PoA when you’re not moving I’d have made comments about it being further proof that she clearly failed it miserably because had she not done she’d have known that was a load of crap.

Darkside:
To be fair the OP is the kind of nightmare employee that has made her like she is.

It’s her yard she can ask you to do what she wants, though whether you do it or leave is up to you…

Emailing DVSA and HSE for answers, instead of going to the people above her and asking■■? Not getting the answers wanted so coming on here for moral support from other drivers■■?

Industry is full of snowflakes nowadays…

As I read it, the new transport manager is the only person there who knows anything about transport? Guessing it’s own account?
There is no one above her who could correct her.
Asking DVSA for clarifications seems reasonable to me, but asking for an investigation wouldn’t.

As for vehicle being moved in the yard by every man and his dog isn’t a legal issue, if they don’t do a vehicle check that’s their problem, as long as you do it when you take control of the vehicle, you are complying with her instructions.
Just because you are the only person in the yard licensed to drive it, doesn’t mean you have to be responsible for every move that is made, even if it’s done with no card in the tacho, just clear the message and crack on.

She is talking rubbish.
Anyone can move the the truck.
Just be careful they are not doing it with your card in.
If your paid hourly, dont forget to put your card in at the begining of your shift.
Even If you have to make a manual entry.
Good luck with her, sounds like your going to need it.
Jon

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If we are talking about a modern HGV then If the parking brake is applied all the time, then wedging the brake pedal down with the ignition on to check the stoplights is not going to make the vehicle roll away. The brakes will still be on all the time . There is the remotest possibility that doing the same thing with a van or some of the Asian made under 7.5t vehicles might be different if the handbrake quadrant and pawl is worn but it is unlikely.

Darkside:
To be fair the OP is the kind of nightmare employee that has made her like she is.

It’s her yard she can ask you to do what she wants, though whether you do it or leave is up to you…

Emailing DVSA and HSE for answers, instead of going to the people above her and asking■■? Not getting the answers wanted so coming on here for moral support from other drivers■■?

Industry is full of snowflakes nowadays…

What a stupid response. Did you feel better after typing that? OP, take no notice of this clown. Your arguments were perfectly reasonable. She is clueless on the regs.

jaydee:
She is talking rubbish.
Anyone can move the the truck.
Just be careful they are not doing it with your card in.
If your paid hourly, dont forget to put your card in at the begining of your shift.
Even If you have to make a manual entry.
Good luck with her, sounds like your going to need it.
Jon

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^ this all day long^

It’s not your concern if others move a vehicle in the yard.
No legal requirement to do checks if it’s just being moved on private land. Can be company policy though…

Dvsa are starting to crack down a lot on missing mileage, ie- vehicle moved with no card in.

Just cover yourself, put card in, do checks, take pictures of any damage and report at start of shift (preferably before moving)
Don’t let anybody move the vehicle if it has your card in.

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as said if their policy is to let any tom ■■■■ and harry move the vans and rigid around the yard that is the managers problem to sort with the insurance etc if there is an incident. just follow what ever rules are in place rigidly and make sure to keep yourself out of harms way. I make a point of asking a particular forklift driver if he has enough room if he is loading/unloading near me. or if I am in the warehouse and one of the guys wants a pallet near where mine are I stand well back. Not because I don’t trust the majority of the drivers im a clumsy oaf and could trip over my own shadow and go into a world of my own.

with the driving time issue for my job I have to get the client to write the time I delivered the goods to them on the manifest. I suspect but don’t know its because they don’t want their drivers sitting up somewhere for 4 hours studying their eyelids. I have an impression and again could be wrong that who ever this lady spoke to that said if your in traffic you should put it on break etc works for a company that doesn’t pay any breaks and wants their pound of flesh out of you. I have only ever really driven for one company so cant comment as mine don’t appear to do that but have read lots of stories from the seasoned guys that have said about it.