Transporting hot water

Ok question for the like of Diesel dave or Rog I suppose, people with sense.
In my current job as I no longer drive a truck due to medical reasons ,and work in the district heating game . If I want to dispose of 90 000 litres of hot water at 95 deg C which is basically treated with inhibitor and antifreeze who do I ask and is it legal at that temp to transport ?
Or can someone store it for us for 7 days and bring it back cold…odd I know but a serious question.
Thanks

Stop heating it, but keep it circulating?

Crossroads:
Stop heating it, but keep it circulating?

Need to drain the circuit to weld in t pieces for a extension , and not able to hot tap pipe either.
So got to ‘lose’ 90 000 litres for a week !

What’s your location? Waste management company would be able to dispose of it but it would likely need to be below 50 C before it could be transported by a tanker. As for storage, pass. Would depend if there’s someone in your area who has tanks for rental.

GP

Ethylene Glycol type antifreeze is hazardous to marine life so wouldnt be good to dump it into the road drain or water courses but maybe into the sewer where in turn it will get treated. Most rust inhibitors are bio degradeable…

job done :wink:

portable-swimming-pool-for-adults.jpg

I don’t know, but thinking aloud, if you put 90deg water into a tank anf allowed it to cool ensure the vents are open? As it cools and contracts it could damage the tank.
Renting 4 container tanks could be an option??

No need to pay for replacing chemicals when refilling system too.

90,000 ltrs is 3 tanks to be safe, your best point of call would be Northern Disposal, they deal with chemically contaminated effluents, not sure if it’s hot, but if placed in tankers with vents open would assist the cooling prossess and possibly reduce it cooling completely

How long would twenty four tons of liquid take to cool anyway? If it’s in an insulated tank it would take days to drop 40 degrees.
Cost it out all ways, of course, but look at storage and reuse.

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Grumpy Dad:
90,000 ltrs is 3 tanks to be safe, your best point of call would be Northern Disposal, they deal with chemically contaminated effluents, not sure if it’s hot, but if placed in tankers with vents open would assist the cooling prossess and possibly reduce it cooling completely

You reckon on about 30 tons per tank?
I’d say 4 iso tanks.

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Franglais:

Grumpy Dad:
90,000 ltrs is 3 tanks to be safe, your best point of call would be Northern Disposal, they deal with chemically contaminated effluents, not sure if it’s hot, but if placed in tankers with vents open would assist the cooling prossess and possibly reduce it cooling completely

You reckon on about 30 tons per tank?
I’d say 4 iso tanks.

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Off the top of my head the max a tank can hold is 40,000 ltrs, three tanks at 30,000 ltrs allowing space for steam and reduce expansion between baffles even with vents open, better to be safe than sorry.

Grumpy Dad:

Franglais:

Grumpy Dad:
90,000 ltrs is 3 tanks to be safe, your best point of call would be Northern Disposal, they deal with chemically contaminated effluents, not sure if it’s hot, but if placed in tankers with vents open would assist the cooling prossess and possibly reduce it cooling completely

You reckon on about 30 tons per tank?
I’d say 4 iso tanks.

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Off the top of my head the max a tank can hold is 40,000 ltrs, three tanks at 30,000 ltrs allowing space for steam and reduce expansion between baffles even with vents open, better to be safe than sorry.

20 Iso Container Tanks are about 24 or 25 thousand litres although there are some bigger ones. Road barrels can well be bigger tho. But youll be limited by weight, one litre of water is one kg, (of course) so 90ish tons needs 4 tanks. 3 tanks would be 30tons in each tank.
Could use 90 IBCs IF they can take the temp, but would take forever to fill empty them and be messy and awkward.

Could be looking at 5, just googled tank capacities ( bet there’s someone on here that sleeps with this crap under their pillows :laughing: ) and the largest is approx 34,000 ltrs, when you start adding pumping gear and other stuff the overall weight is increased and the carrying capacicity is decreased equalling a smaller tank, a Northern Disposal tank can carry a max 29 tonnes of liquid which would as you say require 4 tanks or 3 and waste a bit :wink:

Grumpy Dad:
Could be looking at 5, just googled tank capacities ( bet there’s someone on here that sleeps with this crap under their pillows :laughing: ) and the largest is approx 34,000 ltrs, when you start adding pumping gear and other stuff the overall weight is increased and the carrying capacicity is decreased equalling a smaller tank, a Northern Disposal tank can carry a max 29 tonnes of liquid which would as you say require 4 tanks or 3 and waste a bit :wink:

Sometimes theres a drip left thats hard to shake away…

If you could store it on site you could load approx 30.000ltr on every tank, for the road it’s less 25 / 26 ton.
A normal insulated tank can take that heat easily not problem, most tank can take up to 120 degrees.
If you are not fussed about retaining the heat it’s and easy job, and every tank haulier who is not using food graded tanks could do it.
If you want to retain the heat you need tanks with steam coils and put it on steam, normal diesel fuelled systems would struggle with 90 degrees.
The temperature will drop steeply first about 5degrees a day in a insulated tank, and slows down when around 45 degrees.
It would stop wasting chemicals and paying for disposal of the waste water(not cheap)
So talk to the likes as Isotank, Bertshi, Abbey road tanks etc.

3 wheeler:
Ok question for the like of Diesel dave or Rog I suppose, people with sense.
In my current job as I no longer drive a truck due to medical reasons ,and work in the district heating game . If I want to dispose of 90 000 litres of hot water at 95 deg C which is basically treated with inhibitor and antifreeze who do I ask and is it legal at that temp to transport ?
Or can someone store it for us for 7 days and bring it back cold…odd I know but a serious question.
Thanks

Hi 3 wheeler,

caledoniandream has given you a good answer, as have other posters.

I can tell you that it is legal to carry hot water in a tank at 90deg C and that on the basis of the temperature given in your OP, it won’t count as dangerous goods because:

UN Class 9 includes:

ADR 2.2.9.1.13
Elevated temperature substances include substances which are carried
or handed over for carriage in the liquid state at or above 100 °C

:bulb: However, this is with the caveat that the contaminated water doesn’t meet the definition for any other UN Class.

Given that we’re encouraged to recycle stuff these days, have you considered that option and whether you actually need to dispose of it?

I’am assuming you work for a local authority, the easiest way i can see is get the project manger to ring the local water company and let him/them sort it out. They will have the right answers.

Without trying to be pedantic, any weight calculations are going to depend upon the concentration of antifreeze and the inhibitor. It will also be affected by the temperature of the mixture at any one time. Guesstimate add about 3 tonnes for 25% A/F & 3% inhibitor but it alters significantly with temperature.

Thanks all,
I do not work for a local authority , but I am the project manager !
But we have never had to “lose” this volume on a job before…
So I am going to try and rent 3 or 4 tanker trailers for a week and just have them sat on site slowly cooling whilst we need to store the water, if they don’t move I can fill them totally and just pump it back in when the welding of the pipework is done. So now it’s time to find a company to rent from I think .

From an outsiders point of view… Can you not just remove enough liquid to bring the level below the work? Is it not possible to bypass that pipework temporarily?
Im sure you have ruled these out as your not council employed.