Do any TNUK members have any knowledge/experience of these? The French vielle camion sites revere them. What caused the company to cease production? Here’s a photo I smuggled across the channel:
I think it’s a stunner, especially for 1962.
[zb]
anorak:
Do any TNUK members have any knowledge/experience of these? The French vielle camion sites revere them. What caused the company to cease production? Here’s a photo I smuggled across the channel:
0
I think it’s a stunner, especially for 1962.
Bernard also made stationary engines for driving agricultural equipment,early 20th century I believe.
Saviem will have the answer…after he’s stepped down from his combine harvester. 
Good afternoon to you all,
I had a litttle experience with Camions Bernard whilst I was with RVI in France.
If I remember properly, Bernard became part of a combined French truck maker along with the Commercial Vehicle opersations of Simca, Unic and Delahaye post WW2, and were even the importer for Mack into France in the 1960s. They ceased trading during the 1970s as Renault and Iveco sorted out who had what in terms of the French truck industry.
The products were very robust, designs were forward-thinking for the time (not always a good thing in conservative France) and they tried a variety of joint approaches to keep going.
IIRC there is still a Groupes Bernard trading very succesfully as a logistic contractor in France!
Ed
5thwheel:
[zb]
anorak:
Do any TNUK members have any knowledge/experience of these? The French vielle camion sites revere them. What caused the company to cease production? Here’s a photo I smuggled across the channel:
0
I think it’s a stunner, especially for 1962.Bernard also made stationary engines for driving agricultural equipment,early 20th century I believe.
They made engines until recent times, I have one dating from 1942 myself but there are plenty around from the 1960’s and later.
Pete.
[zb]
anorak:
Do any TNUK members have any knowledge/experience of these? The French vielle camion sites revere them. What caused the company to cease production? Here’s a photo I smuggled across the channel:
0
I think it’s a stunner, especially for 1962.
Like all old French trucks or cars, it wont win any awards for looks
altitude:
Like all old French trucks or cars, it wont win any awards for looks
Beauty is in the eye of the old lorry enthusiast… I love the proportions of that 8-wheeler, and the way the styling of the body is integrated into that of the cab. Admittedly, the front panel/grille may be a bit “over the top” to some- it was nicknamed “Television,” for this reason:
vipassion-mag.centerblog.net/rub … nard-.html
Later versions were toned down a bit:
More Bernards here:
truckerplace.eu/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=139
camionclubdefrance.a.free.fr/for … m.php?f=61
I love the port hole!
Is it me or does it look like something out of a thunderbirds episode?
Evening all, well [ZB], you know that I am totally seduced by "les seigneurs de la route ), “the Lords of the Road”. On one of my first schoolboy cycle touring holidays in the 50s I boldly walked through Bernards front door at 113 Avenue Aristide Briande, Arcueil, (Seine), and in my best schoolboy French, requested details of their lorries for our family business!! That I was not kicked out on my precocious ear, but was given copious details, (including the then “new” Charbonnaux cabbed lorries, with their distinctive porthole sleeper windows), which somehow or other I managed to succesfully carry through the remainder of my “Viking” mounted holiday , and still today posses.
Eduard Bernard, like Louis Willeme started to re-manufacture ex US Liberty lorries at the end of WW1. By the 20s Bernard produced passenger, and goods vehicle chassis. A licence was granted in the 30s to manufacture Gardner designed Diesel engines. But Eduard was himself an innovator, and in many ways “improved” Gardners basic design, (not the least of which was a delightfully light accelerator). The modular engine design resulted in 3,4, &6cylinder versions. The 6cylinder MB6,130x152, of 12,105cu cm capacity, 150/165hp @1750rpm, was manufactured from1956 to the end of the “True Bernard”, when Mack acquired Bernard in 1963. (A takeover that resulted in some odd and varied specifications by the mixing of US Mack and French Bernard components).
Post WW11 Bernard was under the Pons Plan, working closely with Delahaye, Unic and Simca. Perhaps some of their most striking vehicles were produced in the late 50s, conventionals with handsome streamlined cabs by Arnault, and Cottard, and cabovers with Pelpels striking designs. But none more striking than the Charbonnaux examples.
The photograph of the 8x4 refrigerated bodied, Charbonnaux cabbed lorry for AEM, is quite an interesting one. This was an experimental TDA 160.35 @32tonnes gvw, built to try to convince the French regulatory body, The Ministry of Mines, that a new catergory of rigid chassis with 4axles, was a safe and viable uplift from the long existing (rigid) three axle weight of 26tonnes. It was fitted as standard with a Telma Retarder. It was unsuccesful, and 4axle rigids only became “legal” in France with European harmonisation legislation, 20 years later! The driver for Eduard Bernard`s exposition of the 8x4, came from our own market place in Great Britain.
As previously mentioned Bernard produced a large range of stationary engines, later examples employed several, “Gardneresque”, features in their engineering. What caused Bernards demise? No single factor, but contributors were the stagnation of the domestic market, almost non existant export sales, gross over facilitisation, and perhaps the greatest of all, Eduards death. Eduard Bernard, Louis Willeme, as Hugh Gardner in the UK, were autocratic and charismatic heads of their own businesses. Their demise left the business with no direction, and in Bernards case, Eduards son, championed a conventional chassis powered by an air cooled V8, of 200hp, by Alsthom. Its unreliability was lagendary. I enjoyed one memorable dinner with Andre Giraud, (Group Giraud), who tirelessly recounted the failure of the Type 200 Bernard, and how it ended their long association with Bernard.
There is far more to tell about this wonderful company, and its magnificent products, its association with Frances avant garde designer Phillipe Charbonnaux, (who created designs for Berliet, as well as Bernard, as well as Television sets, and motor cars)! and not least the association with Mack! but I have to beat the rain, so its another all nighter, and Im afraid I have spent too long on this electronic gizmo!! I shall away, and whil`st working, remember how delightful were those big Bernards to drive!! Bon nuit, mes braves, Cheerio for now.
Fascinating stuff Saviem. Keep it coming. Hope that you get the harvesting finished in good time
Derf:
I love the port hole!
Is it me or does it look like something out of a thunderbirds episode?
I was thinking that too
Stupot:
Derf:
I love the port hole!
Is it me or does it look like something out of a thunderbirds episode?I was thinking that too
According to the link I posted above, the Charbonneaux cab was first shown in 1960. It entered production in 1962 and, as we seem to agree, was spectacular. With the later, less controversial styling it was a match for anything else in Europe in the mid 1960s.
Regarding the demise of Bernard, I do not consider a paucity of export sales (within Europe, at least) as a mortal handicap, at that time- the Swedish manufacturers (and Fiat) started the decade in a similar position. With that modern product and a well-established core of customers, bang in the geographical centre of the market, Bernard had as good a foundation as any. Their failure to expand into the markets adjacent to their home country leads me to draw parallels with Gardner. Rather than blame the engineering heroes at the helm of these companies, I would point the finger at their colleagues. Mr. Edge’s book about Gardner alludes to battles with the company (in which Hugh eventually prevailed)- I speculate that, if Hugh had been surrounded by helpful, competent business-minded people, rather than undermined by internal competition for his own position, the company may have recognised the need to increase sales across Europe. Was this the case with Bernard?
One would have thought that Mack should have provided the necessary helping hand, but they seemed to screw up every attempt to establish themselves in Europe. Cabs from Bernard, Unic, Motor Panels, their own factory plus that odd flat-panelled bonneted job were all tried with Mack engines/chassis during the ‘60s, apparently with no clear marketing strategy. Was this the ultimate failing which led to the end of Camions Bernard?
Over to you, Monsieur Saviem!
[Edit- original post was a bit duff!]
The plot thickens… 
Think about it logically they still had the Krupp Titan,Mercedes,Saurer and this to contend with at that time.So other than a reasonable cab design for the time what else did it have to beat all that opposition,bearing in mind that even if they had a superior power and drivetrain package than all of those at the time (doubtful),they’d still have had local buyer loyalty to the home country’s manufacturers to contend with.Just as was the case with exports from those countries into France. 
The fact is even in the early 1970’s one of the great pleasures of touring in Europe was the national identity of all the different truck manufacturers and their products seen dominating the roads of their home turf.
Carryfast:
Think about it logically they still had the Krupp Titan,Mercedes,Saurer and this to contend with at that time.So other than a reasonable cab design for the time what else did it have to beat all that opposition,bearing in mind that even if they had a superior power and drivetrain package than all of those at the time (doubtful),they’d still have had local buyer loyalty to the home country’s manufacturers just as was the case with most exporters from those countries into France to contend with..
The looks of that DAF was nothing to write home about was it. 
altitude:
Carryfast:
Think about it logically they still had the Krupp Titan,Mercedes,Saurer and this to contend with at that time.So other than a reasonable cab design for the time what else did it have to beat all that opposition,bearing in mind that even if they had a superior power and drivetrain package than all of those at the time (doubtful),they’d still have had local buyer loyalty to the home country’s manufacturers just as was the case with most exporters from those countries into France to contend with.The looks of that DAF was nothing to write home about was it.
But the important bit is that they knew that a tuned up Gardner was never going to take Europe by storm 
.But it looks very similar to the Bernard cab to me.
Evening all, well, the rain has us beat!! so everything waits for tommorow, ( or according to the weather men, the day afterwards)!! Thank you for your kind comments, and wishes about the harvest, (believe me , we need all the help we can get)!!
Housekeeping… CF, you are absolutely right, in the 60s , to travel “abroad” was a delightful experience, as you say each country had its individual vehicles. I can remember being in awe of the magnificent leviathans of, Bernard, Willeme, Berliet, OM, Fiat, Lancia, when I "bumbled along in my S20 Foden back in the 60s, and of the satisfaction of “leaving in my wake”, such vehicles when I had the “advantage”, of a Foden 12speed, in a 150LX S36 tractor! Hardly seems credible, does it today!
[ZB], the situation pertaining to Bernard was not the same as Gardner. Eduard had not a phalinx of subservent managers, only his son, who believed, (and I do not criticise), that as an engineer, he held the key to the future with Alsthoms air cooled 200hp V8. A100% French offering, sadly, not a reliable one! And from what I glean, (as an “outsider”, who loved the French way of business), a sad misjudgement of the market, who expected, from Bernard, “trustworthy” engineering, not “experimentation”. (Perhaps in the mold of Leyland, and we all know about that)!!!
Regarding export markets for Bernard, the only credible market that they attacked was Spain, via IVASMA, having their main agent as Finanz Auto SA, in Madrid. A difficult, controlled market, with low volume potential. Primarily Eduard manufactured for France! and he knew what they needed. Arguably the premier manufacturers for the French market were, Berliet, Bernard, Willeme, 2nd tier, Unic, Somua, Renault. 3rd tier, Latil, & Delahaye.
Phillipe Charbonnaux, what can one say of this engineer/designer… Stadair, the worlds first air suspended, (all axles), 2 or 3 axle rigid, with a very low loading hight from 15in wheels, for Citroen owned Berliet. Offset 120 hp , front wheel drive, 2 or 3 axle rigid. As a launch tecnique, driven up a ramp at 70kph, and launched into space, landing easily, and with full control, back in 1960!! (Try that with a TK)!!
Charbonnaux`s first cabs, (on air suspended tractors), for Bernard were reminiscent of the early Dutch DAF cabs. But his later creation, the “Television”, what can one say? Avant Garde, futuristic, comfortable, warm, quiet, …yes! Economic to produce…oh no! Almost twice the cost of a “bought in” Cottard, (Bourg en Bresse), sleeper cab, (as shown on [ZB]s photograph of the Drouin Freres, Mack-Bernard. (the blue one). But as has been said, those portholes,…what style.
That AEM 8x4, I omitted to say, she rode on air!! Compare that with the equivalent ERF, or Atkinson of 1962,… well which one would you choose to drive, I know where I would be stowing my gear!!!
My personal favourites are the earlier, TD150s, conventionals, with either the wonderful “art deco” streamlined Arnault cabs, (as operated by Transports G Borca, Paris, on their 150 MB35 TC4s, or the Cottard sleeper rigids, as operated by Tpts George Boncel, of Firminy, in his wonderful “biscuit and cream” livery. But let us not forget those wonderful streamlined integral vans with bodies by both Rennes, Pelpel, and Bourgs Cottard, (identified by the reward sloping “half moon” windows. Real works of art, on working 19/26tonne rigid lorries. The only UK operator that I can recall running a Bernard being Michael Cave Wood, from High Wycombe.
One of Bernards established features was the low centre of gravity of its rigid chassis. Running below the cab and engine, rising in a “hump” over the axle (s), who pierced the frame on overslung, rubber insulated springs, or Charbonnaux, “Michelin” air suspension. Transmission was via a multiplate clutch, and 5speed overdrive gearbox. This had the option of a splitter, (controlled by a second gear lever) giving 10speeds.
Colloquilly known as , “knitters”, my first experience of these was when being introduced to our star , (Saviem),demonstrator driver, John - Louis, my boss explained that he was a Knitter!! Later, together, hammering a SM340 up some bank north of Cherburg, with me in “the chair”, I asked John - Louis, how come he learned to knit!!! The answer is unprintable, but suffice to say I then learned that for many years he had driven Bernard 10speed splitters!!
Then of course in 63 came the end of the “real” Bernard. In came the US Mack. Now this is a story in itself of great and diverse interest, but I have bored you enough! But one interesting spin off from this takeover.
In Holland, the former haulier Floor, had in the 50s started to build his own trailers. These were pulled in the main by Mack Tractors. In 1955, Floor were awarded the Mack franchise for the Benelux countries, so they ceased haulage. And began assembling Mack lorries for sale. 1963, Mack buys into Bernard, and (as Americans do),cancelled the agreement with Floor!
The factory situated at Wijchen, had cost a lot of money, (and remember the Dutch have shorter arms, and deeper pockets than the Scotts)!! So in 1966, just as Bernard began assembling Macks for Europe, the very first Dutch FTF rolled off the assembly line in Wijchen!! At first all were Mack powered, Allison autos, and a "home built cab. But cost constraint ruled, along came a salesman from Coventrys Motorpanels and the Mk 1V was borne, When the Mack stock ran out, then Detroit 6V71, and 8V71N engines were fitted… Funny old world is it not!! And guess which one still exists!!
But the Mack-Bernards, well, that is another story, and its well past this geriatrics bed time, (and I need my theraputic glass of Bollinger), so I shall leave you, and bid you all, bon nuit. Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
Arguably the premier manufacturers for the French market were, Berliet
It’s mainly those which I remember from those holiday trips going through France in the early 1970’s.I don’t think there were many Brit wagons at that time which would have matched the GR250 even pulling drawbars.
47.img.v4.skyrock.net/473/roadma … mall_1.jpg
Let alone just specced as a 4 wheeler rigid which this one seems to be 
.
images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/ … on0077.jpg
While the earlier versions available during the 1960’s seem to show the more advanced thinking taking place across the channel at the time.
Yes all that individuality that made travelling such a mind-broadening experience has sadly disappeared through globalisation (how I hate that word and all it means) and standardisation.
gingerfold:
Yes all that individuality that made travelling such a mind-broadening experience has sadly disappeared through globalisation (how I hate that word and all it means) and standardisation.
A quarter of a century ago, a nation’s culture, its own way of doing the mundane things, was worn with pride on everyday objects such as vehicles. I barely noticed the lorries on my recent 10 (approx.-haven’t added it up) week tour of Europe. The g word has made things a bit boring. All the more reason to bring better times into sharper focus:
This lament brings me to the common ground I noticed between Bernard and Gardner- the most innovative machinery tending to be produced by the companies run by the most autocratic engineers. Mack itself was such a firm (the design process of the Maxidyne engine is a story of two brilliant designers paying scant regard to the market or acknowledged opinion, instead using their brains to rise above it)- I would have thought that they were the ideal partner for Bernard. I look forward to the next chapter, Monsieur Saviem.