Are you able to take a fourth shift in a week where you have worked either over 13 hours or taken a 9 hire reduced daily rest where the last shift is immediately followed by a weekly rest? e.g.
Wed 06:45 duty followed by 16 hour rest
Thu 15:00 duty followed by 14 hour rest (09:00 rest in 24)
Fri 14:00 duty followed by 14 hour rest (10:00 rest in 24)
Sat 11:00 duty followed by 14 hour rest
Sun 10:00 duty followed by 9 hour rest
Mon 13:15 duty followed by 45 hour weekly rest
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limit
Does that answer your query ?
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
No.
You’re allowed 3 reduced breaks between weekly rests.
A.
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
Only if at least one of them has a split rest consisting of a break in the middle of the shift of at least 3 hours with a daily rest at the end of shift of at least 9 hours. You could work that pattern every day legally as it doesn’t count as a reduced rest.
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
No, because it’s not just about how much time you have off. You could start on Monday morning and have 11 hours off on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday night but still have used all of your reduced rests up by Thursday. It’s equally to do with the length of shift you work and how much of the rest fits in to a 24 hour period following the start of your shift.
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
How do you get 11 hours off within 24 hours of starting the 4th shift 
ROG:
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
How do you get 11 hours off within 24 hours of starting the 4th shift
That’s my point. Does the working week run end of one weekly rest to start of the next in which case a 13.25 hour day is legal (because at the end of his duty he is starting a weekly rest) or does the ‘24 hour rule’ over ride everything?
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
Sand Fisher:
ROG:
A weekly rest resets the 3 reduced daily rest limitDoes that answer your query ?
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
How do you get 11 hours off within 24 hours of starting the 4th shift
That’s my point. Does the working week run end of one weekly rest to start of the next in which case a 13.25 hour day is legal (because at the end of his duty he is starting a weekly rest) or does the ‘24 hour rule’ over ride everything?
The 24 hour rule over rides everything
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The 24 hour rule over rides everything
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Thanks.
.
"Sand Fisher:
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
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How do you get 11 hours off within 24 hours of starting the 4th shift
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That’s my point. Does the working week run end of one weekly rest to start of the next in which case a 13.25 hour day is legal (because at the end of his duty he is starting a weekly rest) or does the ‘24 hour rule’ over ride everything?
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The 24 hour rule over rides everything
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Looking on the FTA website that is not correct.
viz A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, but this can be done no more than three times between any two weekly rest periods; no compensation for the reduction is required. A daily rest that is less than 11 hours but at least 9 hours long is called a reduced daily rest period.
Therefore it appears you can do what I thought because workday 6 is succeeded immediately by a weekly rest period. The weekly rest period starting after 13.25 hours of duty, not 24 hours after the start of that last duty.
Also means you could do 4 x 15 hour shifts followed by a reduced weekly rest then 4 x 15 hour shifts over 6 days provided the fourth 15hr shift is immediately succeeded by the weekly rest.
Sand Fisher:
"Sand Fisher:
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
How do you get 11 hours off within 24 hours of starting the 4th shift
[/quote]
That’s my point. Does the working week run end of one weekly rest to start of the next in which case a 13.25 hour day is legal (because at the end of his duty he is starting a weekly rest) or does the ‘24 hour rule’ over ride everything?
[/quote]
The 24 hour rule over rides everything
[/quote]
Looking on the FTA website that is not correct.
viz A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, but this can be done no more than three times between any two weekly rest periods; no compensation for the reduction is required. A daily rest that is less than 11 hours but at least 9 hours long is called a reduced daily rest period.
Therefore it appears you can do what I thought because workday 6 is succeeded immediately by a weekly rest period. The weekly rest period starting after 13.25 hours of duty, not 24 hours after the start of that last duty.
Also means you could do 4 x 15 hour shifts followed by a reduced weekly rest then 4 x 15 hour shifts over 6 days provided the fourth 15hr shift is immediately succeeded by the weekly rest.
[/quote]
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You pop off and do that then petal, just ignore the advice given.
A.
Sand Fisher:
Therefore it appears you can do what I thought because workday 6 is succeeded immediately by a weekly rest period. The weekly rest period starting after 13.25 hours of duty, not 24 hours after the start of that last duty.Also means you could do 4 x 15 hour shifts followed by a reduced weekly rest then 4 x 15 hour shifts over 6 days provided the fourth 15hr shift is immediately succeeded by the weekly rest.
If you work for 13.25 hours, then you cannot have had 11 hours of rest in the 24 hours following the commencement of that shift. The fact that the shift is followed by a weekly rest period is completely irrelevant.
If your shift on Friday starts at 0600, then at 0600 on Saturday you have to ask yourself “How many hours have I had off in the last 24?” and if you worked a 13.25 hour shift then the answer is 10.75, which means you had a reduced rest.
Sand Fisher:
Looking on the FTA website that is not correct.viz A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, but this can be done no more than three times between any two weekly rest periods; no compensation for the reduction is required. A daily rest that is less than 11 hours but at least 9 hours long is called a reduced daily rest period.
Therefore it appears you can do what I thought because workday 6 is succeeded immediately by a weekly rest period. The weekly rest period starting after 13.25 hours of duty, not 24 hours after the start of that last duty.
Also means you could do 4 x 15 hour shifts followed by a reduced weekly rest then 4 x 15 hour shifts over 6 days provided the fourth 15hr shift is immediately succeeded by the weekly rest.
On the last day of a working week the daily rest period has to be completed within the 24 hour period just like any other day.
The daily rest period is extended into a weekly rest period, so although the daily rest and weekly rest periods start at the same time it cannot be considered to be a weekly rest period until at-least 24 hours after the end of the working day.
Try having a 4th reduced daily rest period on the last day of the working week and you will get an infringement.
Sent from my mobile.
Adonis.:
Sand Fisher:
"Sand Fisher:
So you could work 4 x 15 hour duty shifts so long as the last one is followed by a weekly rest period? As the effect of the weekly rest is to nullify the last 15 hour day?
How do you get 11 hours off within 24 hours of starting the 4th shift
That’s my point. Does the working week run end of one weekly rest to start of the next in which case a 13.25 hour day is legal (because at the end of his duty he is starting a weekly rest) or does the ‘24 hour rule’ over ride everything?
[/quote]
The 24 hour rule over rides everything
[/quote]
Looking on the FTA website that is not correct.
viz A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, but this can be done no more than three times between any two weekly rest periods; no compensation for the reduction is required. A daily rest that is less than 11 hours but at least 9 hours long is called a reduced daily rest period.
Therefore it appears you can do what I thought because workday 6 is succeeded immediately by a weekly rest period. The weekly rest period starting after 13.25 hours of duty, not 24 hours after the start of that last duty.
Also means you could do 4 x 15 hour shifts followed by a reduced weekly rest then 4 x 15 hour shifts over 6 days provided the fourth 15hr shift is immediately succeeded by the weekly rest.
[/quote]
[/quote]
You pop off and do that then petal, just ignore the advice given.
A.
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Awaiting a response from Vosa. It isn’t that I want to do it, just need to know what’s legal.
What seems utterly stupid to me is working a 15 hour day, you take say 14 hours off and it is considered a reduced daily rest. The law is crackers in that regard.
Sand Fisher:
Awaiting a response from Vosa. It isn’t that I want to do it, just need to know what’s legal.
Alternatively, you could just try reading the replies you have received in this thread.
Sand Fisher:
What seems utterly stupid to me is working a 15 hour day, you take say 14 hours off and it is considered a reduced daily rest. The law is crackers in that regard.
Well, that’s the way it is, so the best advice here is “■■■■ it up, Buttercup”. 
tachograph:
Sand Fisher:
Looking on the FTA website that is not correct.viz A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, but this can be done no more than three times between any two weekly rest periods; no compensation for the reduction is required. A daily rest that is less than 11 hours but at least 9 hours long is called a reduced daily rest period.
Therefore it appears you can do what I thought because workday 6 is succeeded immediately by a weekly rest period. The weekly rest period starting after 13.25 hours of duty, not 24 hours after the start of that last duty.
Also means you could do 4 x 15 hour shifts followed by a reduced weekly rest then 4 x 15 hour shifts over 6 days provided the fourth 15hr shift is immediately succeeded by the weekly rest.
On the last day of a working week the daily rest period has to be completed within the 24 hour period just like any other day.
The daily rest period is extended into a weekly rest period, so although the daily rest and weekly rest periods start at the same time it cannot be considered to be a weekly rest period until at-least 24 hours after the end of the working day.
Try having a 4th reduced daily rest period on the last day of the working week and you will get an infringement.
Sent from my mobile.
Thanks a logical explanation and it could make sense but not quite what it says in the Vosa guide. Hence the confusion.
fta.co.uk/export/sites/fta/_ … graphs.pdf see p20
P22 states "An actual working week starts at the end of a weekly rest period, and finishes when another weekly rest period is commenced, Not a weekly rest period starts 24 hours after the start of the last duty in the working week. In effect extending a daily rest into a weekly rest period, which is what you are saying. You may be right and if so the guide is totally misleading.
Sand Fisher:
What seems utterly stupid to me is working a 15 hour day, you take say 14 hours off and it is considered a reduced daily rest. The law is crackers in that regard.
Are you saying that doing a 23 hour shift and then having 11 off should also be made into a legal regular daily rest
ROG:
Sand Fisher:
What seems utterly stupid to me is working a 15 hour day, you take say 14 hours off and it is considered a reduced daily rest. The law is crackers in that regard.Are you saying that doing a 23 hour shift and then having 11 off should also be made into a legal regular daily rest
Ugh? Where do I say anything about a 23 hour shift? If you start at 0900 finish at 0000 ie 15 hours later but not start till 1400 the next day how on earth is that morally a reduced rest? You’ve had 14 hours off! Because of this stupid 15 in 24 (leaves 9) but you take more than that how is that a reduced rest. To me a reduced rest is when you book off at 1900 and start again at 0400. That’s a reduced rest.
Personally I’d outlaw the 9 hour turnaround unless it is away from base. Totally ridiculous when people have to travel to/from work, get something to eat etc.