Could someone please simplify the 15 hour shift rules in any given week. I have a couple of drivers that occasionally have to drive their max 10 hours twice a week, take a 3 hour rest period and do a couple of hours ‘Other Work’. How often can they do this? is it just up to the weekly max of 60 hours?..and taking into account the 48 hour average over 17 weeks? unless they’ve opted out? Thanks for your help.
Will your drivers be happy to max out there hours?
I assume you run a haulage company, are you also the CPC holder?
If you are I suggest you do a refresher course on drivers hours and WTD, as you seem confused and this might come to bite you and your business back on the backside.
kevthrev:
Could someone please simplify the 15 hour shift rules in any given week. I have a couple of drivers that occasionally have to drive their max 10 hours twice a week, take a 3 hour rest period and do a couple of hours ‘Other Work’. How often can they do this? is it just up to the weekly max of 60 hours?..and taking into account the 48 hour average over 17 weeks? unless they’ve opted out? Thanks for your help.
Ok Daily rest period should be minimum of 11 hours, Hence 13 hour shift, (done on a 24 hour period)
You can reduce this to 9 hours 3 times a week, hence 15 hour shift.
However you can split your Daily Rest into 2 periods, One of at least 9 hours and one of at least 3 hours, which would work in your case. This would therefore not be considered a reduced daily rest period.
This is EU drivers hours regs not WTD regs
It is correct you can only work a max 60 hours per week, not including breaks and POA, and an average of 48 hours over a 17 week period.
But you cannot opt out of this, what you can do with a workforce agreement, is to increase the 17 reference period to 26 week reference period and opt out of the night working regulations.
if you PM me with your email I will send you a simplified set of regs, peer reviewed by some of the better informed, than me, members of T/net.
You can do 15 hrs mom-wed, then 13 thurs , 8 hrs fri 
Best to go the gov.uk site to see it all.
Note- the regs don’t mention spreadovers or 15hr shifts. They talk about daily rest periods, a daily rest period is only counted up to a time 24hrs from start of the daily shift. In order to get 9hr off this effectively gives a 15hr spread. The norm is 11 off but can be reduced to 9 up to 3 times between weekly rest periods.
But, at risk of correction,
You can do 10 hr drives twice in a fixed Mon 00/Sun 24 week.
You can do 3 short rest periods between weekly rests. Taking a 24 rest midweek resets daily rest clock but not the 10hr drive allowance.
What you seem to have posted suggests more than 15hr spread?
10 min checks, 4-30 drive, 45 break, 4-30 drive, 45 break, 1-00 drive, 3 hours plus 2 hours.
Anyway as I understand it if you can take a rest of 3 uninterrupted hours during the day then a rest of 9hrs (remember only counts up to 24hrs from start of shift) will count as a full rest period.
None of the above, takes into account double mannng. There’s a whole other minefield to play around on there.
Seems to me there is a lot of misinformation out there because of the way older drivers (me) don’t always keep up with changes etc so if anyone wants to point out where I’m wrong that’s fine.
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Are you the designated transport manager?
Thanks for your help guys. No double manning fortunately. Returned to the industry after a couple of years away, i am working part-time for a removals company in the Transport Office alongside the Transport Manager. I have TM CPC. Always found this forum very helpful and honest. Thanks again.
You can always post on here what you propose the drivers to do and then we can advise as to its legality
ROG:
You can always post on here what you propose the drivers to do and then we can advise as to its legality
Bad idea…
You’ll be caught up in a whirlwind of the brown stuff if someone/something/somehow/someway goes against your advice.
Let the man do his job.
yourhavingalarf:
ROG:
You can always post on here what you propose the drivers to do and then we can advise as to its legalityBad idea…
You’ll be caught up in a whirlwind of the brown stuff if someone/something/somehow/someway goes against your advice.
Let the man do his job.
But proposing some working hours plans, could point out some pitfalls the planner hadn’t seen. The TM is responsible of course, but there’s no harm in seeking advice early on in a plan is there?
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muckles:
It is correct you can only work a max 60 hours per week, not including breaks and POA, and an average of 48 hours over a 17 week period.
But you cannot opt out of this, what you can do with a workforce agreement, is to increase the 17 reference period to 26 week reference period and opt out of the night working regulations..
I think you’ll find your not quite right on this bit.
The 48 hour ave WTD can be counted over 2x 26 week periods or 2x 17 and 1 x 18 week periods . Not by work force agreement.
The workforce agreement refers to wether you opt in or out of the night time working hours i.e. 10 hour nights or staying with (normal ) hours i.e. Max 15 hr duty .
dozy:
You can do 15 hrs mom-wed, then 13 thurs , 8 hrs fri
Ah yes the special rule for a Friday 8 hrs I like it 
nick2008:
The workforce agreement refers to wether you opt in or out of the night time working hours i.e. 10 hour nights or staying with (normal ) hours i.e. Max 15 hr duty .
A driver can still do a 15 hour shift/on duty with a 10 hour night restriction in place UNLESS you meant to mean duty time to be the driving + other work total 
weeto:
Will your drivers be happy to max out there hours?
why would an employer be worried about if the drivers were happy or not when theres runs to be done…shape up or ship out would be the norm when your average attendants are 10 a penny.
kevthrev:
I have TM CPC.
So you should bloody well know the answer given that the situation in regards to 9hr reduced daily rest has been the same for decades.
Another company employing drivers run by monkeys.
dieseldog999:
weeto:
Will your drivers be happy to max out there hours?why would an employer be worried about if the drivers were happy or not when theres runs to be done…shape up or ship out would be the norm when your average attendants are 10 a penny.
Depends on what part of the UK you live in I suppose. I certainly won’t work 15 hour days, other than on Sundays when I get £16.50 an hour for it, and nobody seems to have a problem with that.
kevthrev:
Could someone please simplify the 15 hour shift rules in any given week. I have a couple of drivers that occasionally have to drive their max 10 hours twice a week, take a 3 hour rest period and do a couple of hours ‘Other Work’. How often can they do this? is it just up to the weekly max of 60 hours?..and taking into account the 48 hour average over 17 weeks? unless they’ve opted out? Thanks for your help.
It should be obvious to anyone controlling drivers that you can’t ever do those hours legally. 10 hours’ driving with at least 90 minutes on bed mixed in, then a further three hours rest finished off by two hours’ other work is sixteen and a half hours duty time, or if you split the rests they’re still not getting 3+9 in the 24-hour period.
nick2008:
muckles:
It is correct you can only work a max 60 hours per week, not including breaks and POA, and an average of 48 hours over a 17 week period.
But you cannot opt out of this, what you can do with a workforce agreement, is to increase the 17 reference period to 26 week reference period and opt out of the night working regulations..
I think you’ll find your not quite right on this bit.
The 48 hour ave WTD can be counted over 2x 26 week periods or 2x 17 and 1 x 18 week periods . Not by work force agreement.
The workforce agreement refers to wether you opt in or out of the night time working hours i.e. 10 hour nights or staying with (normal ) hours i.e. Max 15 hr duty .
It what I understand from the DFT guidence notes on the RTD
7.1 Relevant Agreements
These can be either a collective agreement or work force agreement.
In general, employers and workers can agree to extend the reference period for the average 48 hour
working time limit up to a maximum of 26 weeks and agree whether this will be monitored using a fixed
or rolling method see Section 3.7 - “who decides what reference period should be used”. Agreements
can also be used to exceed the 10 hour limit for night work see Section 4.4 - “working longer than 10
hours”.
These agreements can be made by ‘collective agreement’ between the employer and an independent trade
union or a ‘workforce agreement’. If a worker has any part of their conditions determined by a collective
agreement they cannot be subject to a workforce agreement.
Harry Monk:
dieseldog999:
weeto:
Will your drivers be happy to max out there hours?why would an employer be worried about if the drivers were happy or not when theres runs to be done…shape up or ship out would be the norm when your average attendants are 10 a penny.
Depends on what part of the UK you live in I suppose. I certainly won’t work 15 hour days, other than on Sundays when I get £16.50 an hour for it, and nobody seems to have a problem with that.
so its not the 15 hour shift thats the problem,its just the pishy basic rate wages that are…thats why i like trip dosh and you can just work it to suit yourself…taking time off somewhere worthwhile is fine,otherwise im bored well before 11 hours…
Harry Monk:
dieseldog999:
weeto:
Will your drivers be happy to max out there hours?why would an employer be worried about if the drivers were happy or not when theres runs to be done…shape up or ship out would be the norm when your average attendants are 10 a penny.
Depends on what part of the UK you live in I suppose. I certainly won’t work 15 hour days, other than on Sundays when I get £16.50 an hour for it, and nobody seems to have a problem with that.
I salute your style, the only use for a 15hr day, when on double bubble