It is said that Brexit has already started to deter Eastern Europeans from temporary working in Britain.
So what do the Tories do as soon as it looks like the settled worker in Britain might be in line for better wages on farms? Open the doors to cheap Russian and Ukrainian workers:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.
Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Rjan:
It is said that Brexit has already started to deter Eastern Europeans from temporary working in Britain.So what do the Tories do
But both you and I know that it doesn’t have to be a ‘Tory’ Brexit.While we also can’t have an end to race to the bottom free market economics while we remain part of the EU single ( free ) market.The two things being an obvious oxymoron.Which is why we had Labour politicians like Benn and Shore.But unfortunately ended up with Callaghan and Blair in the driving seat.
While my own observations suggest that no nationality wants to take on the type of zb too much work undermanned jobs which fill the Jobcentre and other Jobsite pages.Whether it’s ‘multi’ drop driving jobs or too much work if not too many hours working in the fields.To the point where those like me pushing retirement with health issues looking for an easy job to take us up to retirement and pay the household bills,find ourselves competing with young healthy immigrant labour for those jobs.Probably that as much as anything might explain disillusioned East Euros wanting to go home and do something better instead.On the basis that as usual it isn’t how much the hourly rate is but what’s expected of a worker in an hour.IE not much point getting £8 per hour if it involves £12 worth of work which also can’t be completed in 8 hours anyway.All to save labour costs for the employer in hiring enough people to share the workload.Often resulting in multi tasking to the point of being expected to carry out two or more totally different job roles/titles for one wage.All that under the supposed EU wokers utopia.
Grumpy Dad:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Great let’s turn the country into even more of a Victorian/1930’s style sweat shop.That’ll fix it by doing wonders for consumer spending and creating plenty of leisure time to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
When what’s needed is a civilised income protection insurance and retirement regime and an end to the something for nothing culture among the employer classes hoping to take advantage of desperate workers down on their luck for whatever reason.That’s the difference between a Labour Brexit v a stinking Tory one.
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Great let’s turn the country into even more of a Victorian/1930’s style sweat shop.That’ll fix it by doing wonders for consumer spending and creating plenty of leisure time to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
When what’s needed is a civilised income protection insurance and retirement regime and an end to the something for nothing culture among the employer classes hoping to take advantage of desperate workers down on their luck for whatever reason.That’s the difference between a Labour Brexit v a stinking Tory one.
But what is on the table? I applaud your wishes for a better system in the UK regarding the balance of rewards for no effort for some, and the lack of support for those too ill or old to work.
Unfortunately we have had a deal negotiated so far, by only one party. Hardly democratic really. How can we justify a minority Gov deciding our fate for decades to come? Only a Tory Brexit is on offer. That doesn`t look good to me. Nor does the FTO idea that would enable the Tories to drop taxes further (cuts in progressive taxation will benefit the rich more than the poor) cut benefits, and race to the bottom even faster!
Rjan:
It is said that Brexit has already started to deter Eastern Europeans from temporary working in Britain.So what do the Tories do as soon as it looks like the settled worker in Britain might be in line for better wages on farms? Open the doors to cheap Russian and Ukrainian workers:
If you had actually taken the time to have read the article, you would have seen that the main issues keeping eastern Europeans away are increased wages for fruit picking in Germany and strengthened economies in their own countries
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Great let’s turn the country into even more of a Victorian/1930’s style sweat shop.That’ll fix it by doing wonders for consumer spending and creating plenty of leisure time to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
When what’s needed is a civilised income protection insurance and retirement regime and an end to the something for nothing culture among the employer classes hoping to take advantage of desperate workers down on their luck for whatever reason.That’s the difference between a Labour Brexit v a stinking Tory one.
Just how would using our homegrown workforce revert us back to the sweatshops and mills of the 1920’s ?
An employed foreign worker on minimum wage in an unskilled position is allowed to claim benefits which would increase their income to the NLW, these benefits include housing and council tax as well as working tax credits.
Yet the position could have been filled by someone unemployed in the local area, but instead the government pay their rent and council tax and give them an income to ensure their household bills can be paid.
So that’s 2 lots of housing and council tax being paid out plus other benefits, and in return only one is supplementing a workers income.
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Great let’s turn the country into even more of a Victorian/1930’s style sweat shop.That’ll fix it by doing wonders for consumer spending and creating plenty of leisure time to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
When what’s needed is a civilised income protection insurance and retirement regime and an end to the something for nothing culture among the employer classes hoping to take advantage of desperate workers down on their luck for whatever reason.That’s the difference between a Labour Brexit v a stinking Tory one.
But what is on the table? I applaud your wishes for a better system in the UK regarding the balance of rewards for no effort for some, and the lack of support for those too ill or old to work.
Unfortunately we have had a deal negotiated so far, by only one party. Hardly democratic really. How can we justify a minority Gov deciding our fate for decades to come? Only a Tory Brexit is on offer. That doesn`t look good to me. Nor does the FTO idea that would enable the Tories to drop taxes further (cuts in progressive taxation will benefit the rich more than the poor) cut benefits, and race to the bottom even faster!
Which part of,1) the EU single ( free ) market is by definition an oxymoron regards stopping race to the bottom ‘free market’ economics and/or creating an environment of protecting Brit jobs for Brit workers as part of that,2) every cut which we’ve had in national income protection insurance and pension provision and slashing of Union strength and rights has happened on the EU’s watch mostly as a result of remainer Thatcher’s ‘reforms’,and 3 ) there is nothing which the Cons could do,regarding their idea of Brexit,which couldn’t subsequently be replaced by a ( real ) Labour version after given the required electoral mandate,didn’t you understand.As opposed to what we’ve got now of Corbyn and May both allied in an agenda of more of the same LabCon bs with a bit of help from the LibDims.
Which leaves the question why would Corbyn be so keen to follow ‘free’ market principles in the form of the EU single market and why would he prefer to follow Blairite policies,in the form of Starmer,rather than the anti EU anti free market views of Hoey,in that regard ?.Bearing in mind that we can’t possibly have the required civilising of our income protection/health care/retirement systems when the Germans have all the industry and we are lumbered with an unsustainable trade deficit combined with the net contributions bill.With the lose lose situation that what jobs we have left are subject to a foreign open door free for all,thereby over supplying an already collapsed labour market.With employers wanting as much work as possible done by as few employees as possible.Hence job adverts with enforced ‘overtime’ and weekend working and silly multi drop driving jobs etc etc being the norm.
Then they wonder why even the East Euros have either had enough and are going home.Or competing for whatever reasonably work/life friendly jobs are left out there often with what should be retired or semi retired Brits. 
On that note no one these days should need to work more than a 32 hour week,or be in a regime in which employers want more than one hour’s worth of work done in an hour and/or one employee carrying out the role of more than one job title thereby making a mockery of ‘hourly’ wage rates.Or have to work over the age of 60.Or not be covered for ill health or unemployment from just their own trade/occupation.Nor be subjected to a payments regime in which the employer classes want such provision slashed in a deliberate attempt to create an even more desperate pool of cheap labour willing and/or effectively forced to take anything under any conditions.We’re obviously not going to get that while we remain a part of the so called EU workers’ utopia that’s obviously and all too predictably failed the working class since we joined it.
Over to Rjan with all that.
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Great let’s turn the country into even more of a Victorian/1930’s style sweat shop.That’ll fix it by doing wonders for consumer spending and creating plenty of leisure time to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
When what’s needed is a civilised income protection insurance and retirement regime and an end to the something for nothing culture among the employer classes hoping to take advantage of desperate workers down on their luck for whatever reason.That’s the difference between a Labour Brexit v a stinking Tory one.
Just how would using our homegrown workforce revert us back to the sweatshops and mills of the 1920’s ?
An employed foreign worker on minimum wage in an unskilled position is allowed to claim benefits which would increase their income to the NLW, these benefits include housing and council tax as well as working tax credits.
Yet the position could have been filled by someone unemployed in the local area, but instead the government pay their rent and council tax and give them an income to ensure their household bills can be paid.
So that’s 2 lots of housing and council tax being paid out plus other benefits, and in return only one is supplementing a workers income.
I was specifically referring to your bs ideas concerning our in reality effectively non existent social security system.The rest can only be taken on that stupid stereotypical Con party line basis.
When the fact is more a case of the ‘so called social security system’ breaching its contract by charging more than the going rate for substandard cover.Let alone the ability to be able to change the terms of the insurance contract,either in the form of changing eligibility to claim and/or the amount of cover provided,criteria during the term of the cover.IE I start work paying in national insurance payments as part of a policy/contract which covers unemployment or illness based on solely the loss or inability to carry out my own job and retirement provision based on an index linked pension payable at the age of 65.Which then arbitrarily turns into a policy which only covers illness in terms of paralysis from the neck down and therefore the ability to do any hypothetical job within that restriction,or any type of other job in the event of unemployment,a pension payout which isn’t linked to realsistic inflation rates and a retirement age which can be arbitrarily changed by the ‘insurer’ at will.Oh and we have to pay the same if not more for the reduced cover.All as part of a Tory crusade to create a pool of desperate take anything on offer labour.With the end result being that unemployment or illness could easily mean a family losing their house and being forced to live in a high rise zb hole or worse and possibly having to work harder for the privilege,whatever they do regardless.Together with the flogging a dead horse situation of older ready for retirement workers being forced back into the workplace adding to the problems of an already deliberately over supplied labour market.What could possibly go wrong.
It’s obvious that we’ve got three totally opposing views of the type of country which we want if/when we’ve got it back.Unfortunately for the place it’s caught in the middle of a three way fight in which actually the type of Thatcherite fiefdom which you’re obviously hoping for would be and has been better served by staying within the exploitative Cultural Marxist crap hole of the EU which Heath and Thatcher took us into.On that note I guess that you’ve missed the point that your obvious ideas and that of Communism have long since realised that they have a mutual interest in keeping the status quo going.On the basis of profits based on cheap labour from the point of view of the exploitative Victorian Capitalists and the point of view of the Socialists that happy well paid workers don’t vote Socialist nor fits in with an ideology based on some are more equal than others.
On that note as I said suggest you check out Kennedy’s Fordist type economics third way.Which most certainly didn’t include your obvious idea of cutting social security provision,to create an under class of desperate workers.Thereby defeating the object of such economic principles by forcing down the wage levels which he was trying to raise and succeeded in raising.In fact he did exactly the opposite.Thereby in all cases increasing living standards and spending power in the economy meaning more and better paid employment for those in work and a more civilised regime for those down on their luck.
Cultural Marxism indeed.It’s exactly the same exploitative bleedin thing as the wrong type of Capitalism and Kennedy paid the price for it and Nixon,Reagan and Thatcher delivered us into the cultural Marxist regime which you’re supposedly moaning about.
Harry Monk:
Rjan:
It is said that Brexit has already started to deter Eastern Europeans from temporary working in Britain.So what do the Tories do as soon as it looks like the settled worker in Britain might be in line for better wages on farms? Open the doors to cheap Russian and Ukrainian workers:
If you had actually taken the time to have read the article, you would have seen that the main issues keeping eastern Europeans away are increased wages for fruit picking in Germany and strengthened economies in their own countries
I agree that was also mentioned, but it doesn’t really have a bearing - the key point is that, whatever reason for the abating inward flow, the Tories do something to increase it again, despite their positioning as an anti-immigrant party who want to bring numbers down.
Carryfast:
Cultural Marxism indeed.It’s exactly the same exploitative bleedin thing as the wrong type of Capitalism and Kennedy paid the price for it and Nixon,Reagan and Thatcher delivered us into the cultural Marxist regime which you’re supposedly moaning about.
We aren’t in a regime that is Marxist in any respect - whether we are talking about an ideal or whether we are talking about actual past regimes.
We are living in a Victorian liberal regime, with its sweated conditions, insecurity, attacks on social security, the return of disease and ill-health (nowadays mostly.mental), and so on. Just without the racism, and with worse pay rises too.
Even the Chinese worker, currently gets a significant pay rise every year.
MP’s got £ 2000 pay rise on 01/05/19 , and their current salary (end April) is £ 78,000 – Nice work if you can get it or want it .
Rjan:
Carryfast:
Cultural Marxism indeed.It’s exactly the same exploitative bleedin thing as the wrong type of Capitalism and Kennedy paid the price for it and Nixon,Reagan and Thatcher delivered us into the cultural Marxist regime which you’re supposedly moaning about.We aren’t in a regime that is Marxist in any respect - whether we are talking about an ideal or whether we are talking about actual past regimes.
We are living in a Victorian liberal regime, with its sweated conditions, insecurity, attacks on social security, the return of disease and ill-health (nowadays mostly.mental), and so on. Just without the racism, and with worse pay rises too.
Even the Chinese worker, currently gets a significant pay rise every year.
As I said the ‘wrong’ type of Capitalism ‘allied’ with cultural Marxism in the form of the Chinese Communist Party.As for Chinese wage rates I’m sure the Tories would be ecstatic with a minimum wage of less than £2 per hour to go with the EUSSR Marxist friendly ( aligned ) government.
As for attacks on social security don’t remember Wilson or Callaghan or Blair making the social security and pensions systems contractual thereby stopping the situation of provision and terms being arbitrarily altered during the term of the policy.Unlike the provisions of private cover.Nor Blair reversing any of the ‘reforms’ imposed by the Thatcherites.
As opposed to the ‘right’ type of capitalism.Creating a growth figure of 6.1% in 1963.
I would hesitate to use the Word '‘work’'in relation to Polititians.
Rjan:
Harry Monk:
Rjan:
It is said that Brexit has already started to deter Eastern Europeans from temporary working in Britain.So what do the Tories do as soon as it looks like the settled worker in Britain might be in line for better wages on farms? Open the doors to cheap Russian and Ukrainian workers:
If you had actually taken the time to have read the article, you would have seen that the main issues keeping eastern Europeans away are increased wages for fruit picking in Germany and strengthened economies in their own countries
I agree that was also mentioned, but it doesn’t really have a bearing - the key point is that, whatever reason for the abating inward flow, the Tories do something to increase it again, despite their positioning as an anti-immigrant party who want to bring numbers down.
Then the obvious thing to do is to support the Brexit party.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Has the government and left wing snowflakes actually sat down and thought about why Britain has a labour shortage, it’s because each and every government has promised to help the unemployed with increased benefits and handouts.
Britain has become a ever wanting society, the students want free learning with the bill passed to the tax payer, and paying tax is something the soap dodging layabouts will never pay as they bounce from course to course, grant after grant increasing the debt they’ll never pay, the unemployed who see living life on handouts a far easier existence than having to carry out manual labour to put food on the table.Britain has its own viable workforce and maybe it’s time society was gripped by the balls and this workforce was put to use instead of increasing our national debt and our need for foreign labour.
Great let’s turn the country into even more of a Victorian/1930’s style sweat shop.That’ll fix it by doing wonders for consumer spending and creating plenty of leisure time to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
When what’s needed is a civilised income protection insurance and retirement regime and an end to the something for nothing culture among the employer classes hoping to take advantage of desperate workers down on their luck for whatever reason.That’s the difference between a Labour Brexit v a stinking Tory one.
But what is on the table? I applaud your wishes for a better system in the UK regarding the balance of rewards for no effort for some, and the lack of support for those too ill or old to work.
Unfortunately we have had a deal negotiated so far, by only one party. Hardly democratic really. How can we justify a minority Gov deciding our fate for decades to come? Only a Tory Brexit is on offer. That doesn`t look good to me. Nor does the FTO idea that would enable the Tories to drop taxes further (cuts in progressive taxation will benefit the rich more than the poor) cut benefits, and race to the bottom even faster!Which part of,1) the EU single ( free ) market is by definition an oxymoron regards stopping race to the bottom ‘free market’ economics and/or creating an environment of protecting Brit jobs for Brit workers as part of that,2) every cut which we’ve had in national income protection insurance and pension provision and slashing of Union strength and rights has happened on the EU’s watch mostly as a result of remainer Thatcher’s ‘reforms’,and 3 ) there is nothing which the Cons could do,regarding their idea of Brexit,which couldn’t subsequently be replaced by a ( real ) Labour version after given the required electoral mandate,didn’t you understand.As opposed to what we’ve got now of Corbyn and May both allied in an agenda of more of the same LabCon bs with a bit of help from the LibDims.
Which leaves the question why would Corbyn be so keen to follow ‘free’ market principles in the form of the EU single market and why would he prefer to follow Blairite policies,in the form of Starmer,rather than the anti EU anti free market views of Hoey,in that regard ?.Bearing in mind that we can’t possibly have the required civilising of our income protection/health care/retirement systems when the Germans have all the industry and we are lumbered with an unsustainable trade deficit combined with the net contributions bill.With the lose lose situation that what jobs we have left are subject to a foreign open door free for all,thereby over supplying an already collapsed labour market.With employers wanting as much work as possible done by as few employees as possible.Hence job adverts with enforced ‘overtime’ and weekend working and silly multi drop driving jobs etc etc being the norm.
Then they wonder why even the East Euros have either had enough and are going home.Or competing for whatever reasonably work/life friendly jobs are left out there often with what should be retired or semi retired Brits.
On that note no one these days should need to work more than a 32 hour week,or be in a regime in which employers want more than one hour’s worth of work done in an hour and/or one employee carrying out the role of more than one job title thereby making a mockery of ‘hourly’ wage rates.Or have to work over the age of 60.Or not be covered for ill health or unemployment from just their own trade/occupation.Nor be subjected to a payments regime in which the employer classes want such provision slashed in a deliberate attempt to create an even more desperate pool of cheap labour willing and/or effectively forced to take anything under any conditions.We’re obviously not going to get that while we remain a part of the so called EU workers’ utopia that’s obviously and all too predictably failed the working class since we joined it.
Over to Rjan with all that.
Trying to keep it brief.
They wouldn’t mind having to be outside of the ATAP rules too.
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Can I just ask Mr Franglais one very simple question which requires just a simple yes or no answer?
Have you noticed that wages in the road transport sector have been stagnant for around 15 years now?
And, as a bonus question, if you have then what would you attribute this to?
Harry Monk:
Can I just ask Mr Franglais one very simple question which requires just a simple yes or no answer?Have you noticed that wages in the road transport sector have been stagnant for around 15 years now?
And, as a bonus question, if you have then what would you attribute this to?
Fair question.
Yes, there has been stagnation in Euro transport wages for UK drivers.
Causes? Complex.
I’ll reply in a while, but you’ve got the quick answer already!
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OK , Harry I’ll try to address that very good question.
And I won’t ignore the ‘elephant In the room’ EE companies. I guess that’s behind your query.
In another post you noted that in your Easy Kent youth there were as many Euro jobs as UK ones. Although some, such as you and I, may have fancied it Euro work had to pay a premium to attract drivers. Weekends away, long days etc needed to be rewarded. Currently there are fewer Euro jobs, so less need to give them greater pay. There are enough idiots… (like me)…who reckon working in the UK is much less desirable than working in Euroland. The idiots (me) don’t need to be paid a bonus to drive on quieter roads, be left alone more, park free beside nice restaurants.
So far ok?
So the issue is probably why are fewer UK Euro jobs?
Looks to me, as it probably does to you, like it is cheaper EE transport. I wish it was otherwise and I was still on tons more money than UK drivers, but it ain’t gonna happen.
So you’re probably shouting at your computer asking why I support us staying in the EU?
But I won’t answer that just yet. I’ll put this up and see if that is an issue for you.
I’m waiting for the bods here to finish getting this part load ready.
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I’ll see if you accept my previous reply before expanding my answer, if you want? I don’t want to woffle on if you don’t.
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