Will leaving the EU make your life better?

Question that has bugged me a bit since I voted to Leave, made me regret my vote a little bit.

Got brought up again today when I heard an interesting radio phone in where the public were asked “What are the positives of leaving the EU” and “How will it make your life better?”. Fair to say, nobody really had a very good answer beyond the vague “taking back control” type soundbites peddled by the papers.

To be honest, I can’t answer the question convincingly myself.

So, what are the positives of leaving the EU and how will they make your own life better?

Try a different question then!

What would make life better if we had stayed in the EU?

As you can’t give an answer to either question, the only logical answer is that no one knows…

rob22888:
Question that has bugged me a bit since I voted to Leave, made me regret my vote a little bit.

Got brought up again today when I heard an interesting radio phone in where the public were asked “What are the positives of leaving the EU” and “How will it make your life better?”. Fair to say, nobody really had a very good answer beyond the vague “taking back control” type soundbites peddled by the papers.

To be honest, I can’t answer the question convincingly myself.

So, what are the positives of leaving the EU and how will they make your own life better?

The question is exactly what was it that made you supposedly vote Leave assuming you read the manifesto leaflets.While how can you consider the return of democratic accountability,over your own country’s government,as not making your life ‘better’.Also what do you regard as being supposedly ‘vague’ about that clear choice.Assuming you believe in democracy.

In addition to the question how can paying,in the form of net contributions,for the privilege of a trade deficit and being ruled over by people like Juncker and Tusk and Merkel,be supposedly better.Bearing in mind your now supposed ‘regrets’.

But yes the bit I regret is Cameron not returning with a deal that gave us a Confederal Europe which gave my elected MEP’s the powers of National opt out and/or VETO over the decision making process of EU.In which case I’d have definitely voted remain.But of course that isn’t the agenda of the EU and as such it needs to be smashed sooner rather than later.

rob22888:
Question that has bugged me a bit since I voted to Leave, made me regret my vote a little bit.

Well done on being man enough to admit that

The fact we can stop the madness to 500k people coming here each year yes it will benefit me and my kids in the long run.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Wages will go up with profits coming down to compensate.

I think the word is rebalancing.

We were asked to make a choice between
Remain: and we are all familiar with problems with the Eu. Its not perfect, nothing is, its easy to criticise any existing system.
Leave: with no fixed plan for leaving there was no way to speak against the vague arm waving promises of some of the campaigners. Buzz words and phrases like “taking back power” “doing away with regulation” abounded. The rules on clean water at beaches, holiday pay for agency workers, rules on pesticides, GM food, air pollution, gov aid for flood areas all originated in the EU. Are they all interference in our UK businesses freedom to make profit? I hope so, I dont want to live in country or a world where business is free to turn a profit by polluting, and exploiting workers. Power? If not exercised by politicos in Brussels its used and abused just as much by politicos in London or even your local town hall. Immigration? Easy to stop that. Destroy our economy: people will always want to come to a successful economy. And business will want them to come as a form of cheap labour. Youve heard of newly immigrant doctors, teachers etc working in factories? How can we leave a club, give up paying our dues and then expect better treatment? I cant see that working out too well. The Eu is not perfect, but it is better than no Eu. Would have been better to stay inside and improve it, IMHO.

Well said franglais, my sentiments exactly.

Héraultais:
Well said franglais, my sentiments exactly.

May well be down your way next week? Hoping for a meal in the Oliviers Maureilhan. Def one of the better restos around. If Restaurants Routiers were compulsory under Eu law no driver would ever vote out !

I’ll probably be around the industrial zone of Beziers Ouest just before you get to the roundabout at Maureilhan, we may well cross paths.

Franglais:
We were asked to make a choice between
Remain: and we are all familiar with problems with the Eu. Its not perfect, nothing is, its easy to criticise any existing system.
Leave: with no fixed plan for leaving there was no way to speak against the vague arm waving promises of some of the campaigners. Buzz words and phrases like “taking back power” “doing away with regulation” abounded. The rules on clean water at beaches, holiday pay for agency workers, rules on pesticides, GM food, air pollution, gov aid for flood areas all originated in the EU. Are they all interference in our UK businesses freedom to make profit? I hope so, I dont want to live in country or a world where business is free to turn a profit by polluting, and exploiting workers. Power? If not exercised by politicos in Brussels its used and abused just as much by politicos in London or even your local town hall. Immigration? Easy to stop that. Destroy our economy: people will always want to come to a successful economy. And business will want them to come as a form of cheap labour. Youve heard of newly immigrant doctors, teachers etc working in factories? How can we leave a club, give up paying our dues and then expect better treatment? I cant see that working out too well. The Eu is not perfect, but it is better than no Eu. Would have been better to stay inside and improve it, IMHO.

Being in the EU created a modern day slavery Labour workforce. Natives in the UK not having babies so I know let’s flood the UK and other EU countries with a workforce and let’s hope they pay in taxes. Then we can borrow more money off their future and kids future.

Immigration can’t be stopped while in the EU this is a fact. 323k people entering each year. Sorry make that 500k each year. City the size of Liverpool near enough each year. We are full.

We have near enough the same population has France yet we’re half the size.

Migration actually costs us billions. Cameron when he gave over 500 million over 5 years to Syrian refugees helped far less people then he could have done. Each Syrian costing around 30k. That 30k could have helped 12 Syrians get resettled in a safe area in Syria.

We need to be thankful Turkey are not in the EU when 12 million of them planned to come settle in the UK once they had been approved then you would see the NHS and housing/jobs in a proper state.

No EU is better then being in the EU.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Franglais:
We were asked to make a choice between
Remain: and we are all familiar with problems with the Eu. Its not perfect, nothing is, its easy to criticise any existing system.
Leave: with no fixed plan for leaving there was no way to speak against the vague arm waving promises of some of the campaigners. Buzz words and phrases like “taking back power” “doing away with regulation” abounded. The rules on clean water at beaches, holiday pay for agency workers, rules on pesticides, GM food, air pollution, gov aid for flood areas all originated in the EU. Are they all interference in our UK businesses freedom to make profit? I hope so, I dont want to live in country or a world where business is free to turn a profit by polluting, and exploiting workers. Power? If not exercised by politicos in Brussels its used and abused just as much by politicos in London or even your local town hall. Immigration? Easy to stop that. Destroy our economy: people will always want to come to a successful economy. And business will want them to come as a form of cheap labour. Youve heard of newly immigrant doctors, teachers etc working in factories? How can we leave a club, give up paying our dues and then expect better treatment? I cant see that working out too well. The Eu is not perfect, but it is better than no Eu. Would have been better to stay inside and improve it, IMHO.

It’s a typically convenient remainer understatement to say that an un elected dictatorship,which smashes the democratic self determination and National Sovereignty of the European Nation States,isn’t ‘perfect’.Nor would it be correct to say,that a simple over night change in the EU constitution,to one which gives the National MEP groups,the right of sovereignty and VETO and/or opt out and/or substitution over the decision making process of the ‘Union’,is asking for perfection.More like the minimum expected of a modern,progressive,supposedly democratic government system.Which respects the independence and self determination of its member states.As opposed to what we’ve got in the form of an un elected elite like Juncker and Tusk and the commissioners dictating policy.Or at best foreign rule in the form of majority foreign vote.

As for all the selective so called beneficial regs.What we’ve actually got is big business being able to take advantage of free movement of low wage expectation labour.In addition to freedom to move jobs to the cheapest labour areas.On that note if the EU is supposedly so good for the workers why hasn’t it imposed an EU wide minimum wage to stop that.While the fact is we had more jobs and with it better terms and conditions and more workers’ rights,before we joined and the resulting mass transfer of industry from UK to EEC/EU than after,such as the right to secondary action.Which in the case of transport means lower wages and loss of jobs to East Euro workers let alone if/when the full on rules regarding cabotage are introduced ( imposed ).

As for clean beaches etc I don’t think anything has changed massively.In that I don’t remember trips to the coast,when growing up before 1973,being ruined by filthy beaches nor being,or needing to be,fixed by membership of Juncker’s and Tusk’s EUSSR.

In the absence of any possibility of a Confederal Europe the big question being not was it right to Leave.But whether the Cons,having hijacked UKIP’s agenda,have any intention whatsoever in delivering it.As opposed to them being an ideologically pro EU federalist Party that’s all about delaying and de railing Brexit while pretending to deliver it.The fact that Cameron managed to place remainer May,as opposed to Davis,in the top job before he walked away,says it all in that regard.

JaxDemon:

Franglais:
We were asked to make a choice between
Remain: and we are all familiar with problems with the Eu. Its not perfect, nothing is, its easy to criticise any existing system.
Leave: with no fixed plan for leaving there was no way to speak against the vague arm waving promises of some of the campaigners. Buzz words and phrases like “taking back power” “doing away with regulation” abounded. The rules on clean water at beaches, holiday pay for agency workers, rules on pesticides, GM food, air pollution, gov aid for flood areas all originated in the EU. Are they all interference in our UK businesses freedom to make profit? I hope so, I dont want to live in country or a world where business is free to turn a profit by polluting, and exploiting workers. Power? If not exercised by politicos in Brussels its used and abused just as much by politicos in London or even your local town hall. Immigration? Easy to stop that. Destroy our economy: people will always want to come to a successful economy. And business will want them to come as a form of cheap labour. Youve heard of newly immigrant doctors, teachers etc working in factories? How can we leave a club, give up paying our dues and then expect better treatment? I cant see that working out too well. The Eu is not perfect, but it is better than no Eu. Would have been better to stay inside and improve it, IMHO.

Being in the EU created a modern day slavery Labour workforce. Natives in the UK not having babies so I know let’s flood the UK and other EU countries with a workforce and let’s hope they pay in taxes. Then we can borrow more money off their future and kids future.

Immigration can’t be stopped while in the EU this is a fact. 323k people entering each year. Sorry make that 500k each year. City the size of Liverpool near enough each year. We are full.

We have near enough the same population has France yet we’re half the size.

Migration actually costs us billions. Cameron when he gave over 500 million over 5 years to Syrian refugees helped far less people then he could have done. Each Syrian costing around 30k. That 30k could have helped 12 Syrians get resettled in a safe area in Syria.

We need to be thankful Turkey are not in the EU when 12 million of them planned to come settle in the UK once they had been approved then you would see the NHS and housing/jobs in a proper state.

No EU is better then being in the EU.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

“Being in the EU created a modern day slavery Labour workforce.”
Well I don`t know why you make that assertion, and I simply say I disagree.

" Natives in the UK not having babies so I know let’s flood the UK and other EU countries with a workforce and let’s hope they pay in taxes. Then we can borrow more money off their future and kids future."
The UK population have time after time voted for governments that promise simultaneously expenditure on the NHS, education, social care, policing,
AND low taxes. The only way this can be achieved is by borrowing against the future. So it is dependent on a rising population. Call it if you want a giant Ponzi scheme. It really is that simple: vote for low taxes, without spending cuts and there you are.

“We have near enough the same population has France yet we’re half the size.”
Yes, and the population of France is probably more evenly distributed, so the south east of the UK is very highly densely populated. And the UK gov doesn`t release enough land for building so housing is extortionately priced. Outside the capitals France, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc, etc, have cheaper housing, so who you gonna blame for that?

“Migration actually costs us billions. Cameron when he gave over 500 million over 5 years to Syrian refugees helped far less people then he could have done. Each Syrian costing around 30k. That 30k could have helped 12 Syrians get resettled in a safe area in Syria”
I believe youre correct that sending more in aid to Syria would help the Syrians stabilize their own country and their own economy. Better for all. We accept refugees, as I understand it, because we observe several different laws including, one from the Eu in 2004, and others from the UN, the 1948 Declaration Of Human Rights, and other protocols and agreements. Good for us, nice to know we are decent human beings and not selfish ■■■■■■■■ isnt it?

“We need to be thankful Turkey are not in the EU when 12 million of them planned to come settle in the UK once they had been approved then you would see the NHS and housing/jobs in a proper state.”
When the East block joined the Eu it was only the UK that allowed unlimited migration on day one: a National decision not an Eu one. I daresay the same options would apply if/when Turkey were allowed in. Freedom of movement for workers is an Eu issue, and they havent got it right yet, tis true.
The NHS is just that the UK National Health Service. Funding is down to the UK, and mismanagement and under investment is surely down to tax cutting short sighted National Governments. The politicos will of course try to blame all and sundry for their failings, including the Eu, but not all fault lies in the Eu. Housing? Not so much of a shortage in other Eu countries is there? Look to our national government for some blame here too, not releasing green belt land for housing keeps a few in isolated country luxury, while we all pay too much for small houses on over priced scarce land. And guess what, those who own the big houses in the sticks get richer by borrowing against the appreciating assets of their land. Who are the Government really serving?

The Eu is not perfect, not by along way, but don`t believe the UK politicians who lay all blame against the Eu and accept none for themselves.

Franglais:
“Being in the EU created a modern day slavery Labour workforce.”
Well I don`t know why you make that assertion, and I simply say I disagree.

" Natives in the UK not having babies so I know let’s flood the UK and other EU countries with a workforce and let’s hope they pay in taxes. Then we can borrow more money off their future and kids future."
The UK population have time after time voted for governments that promise simultaneously expenditure on the NHS, education, social care, policing,
AND low taxes. The only way this can be achieved is by borrowing against the future. So it is dependent on a rising population. Call it if you want a giant Ponzi scheme. It really is that simple: vote for low taxes, without spending cuts and there you are.

“We have near enough the same population has France yet we’re half the size.”
Yes, and the population of France is probably more evenly distributed, so the south east of the UK is very highly densely populated. And the UK gov doesn`t release enough land for building so housing is extortionately priced. Outside the capitals France, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc, etc, have cheaper housing, so who you gonna blame for that?

“Migration actually costs us billions. Cameron when he gave over 500 million over 5 years to Syrian refugees helped far less people then he could have done. Each Syrian costing around 30k. That 30k could have helped 12 Syrians get resettled in a safe area in Syria”
I believe youre correct that sending more in aid to Syria would help the Syrians stabilize their own country and their own economy. Better for all. We accept refugees, as I understand it, because we observe several different laws including, one from the Eu in 2004, and others from the UN, the 1948 Declaration Of Human Rights, and other protocols and agreements. Good for us, nice to know we are decent human beings and not selfish [zb] isnt it?

“We need to be thankful Turkey are not in the EU when 12 million of them planned to come settle in the UK once they had been approved then you would see the NHS and housing/jobs in a proper state.”
When the East block joined the Eu it was only the UK that allowed unlimited migration on day one: a National decision not an Eu one. I daresay the same options would apply if/when Turkey were allowed in. Freedom of movement for workers is an Eu issue, and they havent got it right yet, tis true.
The NHS is just that the UK National Health Service. Funding is down to the UK, and mismanagement and under investment is surely down to tax cutting short sighted National Governments. The politicos will of course try to blame all and sundry for their failings, including the Eu, but not all fault lies in the Eu. Housing? Not so much of a shortage in other Eu countries is there? Look to our national government for some blame here too, not releasing green belt land for housing keeps a few in isolated country luxury, while we all pay too much for small houses on over priced scarce land. And guess what, those who own the big houses in the sticks get richer by borrowing against the appreciating assets of their land. Who are the Government really serving?

The Eu is not perfect, not by along way, but don`t believe the UK politicians who lay all blame against the Eu and accept none for themselves.

It seems obvious that free movement of low wage expectation labour from the under developed European economies to the more developed ones adds to the labour supply in those more developed economies,thereby creating downward pressure on wage levels.Anything that doesn’t recognise that fact ignores basic mathematics and economics.

The problem with funding our essential services is because falling wages in real terms means falling economic growth and tax revenues pro rata.While at the same time increasing the population levels means more demand for those services.While it is possible to have low taxation and high social spending so long as the population level remains stable and economic growth outruns inflation.While it’s obvious that what we’ve got with the EU is localised high labour supply,meaning equally high demand for services,equal downward pressure on wages and resulting low tax revenues and low economic growth and hidden rising inflation.

How is it supposedly the ‘National’ Health Service when we’ve got an open door immigration policy much of it driven by Merkel’s demands to provide the Middle East/Asia with free movement Europe.That immigration of course then being entitled to NHS treatment on arrival.While it’s obvious that much of that immigration doesn’t fit the definition of refugees.

As for release of Green Belt land we’ve already given away most of Surrey to London’s urban sprawl over the decades which has solved absolutely nothing while just increasing the issues.While you’ll find plenty of working class areas here,like this one,which are actually united with the richer areas in wanting to protect what remains.While you’ve obviously contradicted yourself in that regard by referring to the better population distribution in France.While obviously at the same time calling for the same old policy of concreting over the south east,while the north remains an underpopulated wasteland,for us.On that note if you think that an open door immigration policy and wiping out the countryside to house it all is the way forward then you’ll obviously have no problem in leaving us out of that and letting France take it all.Although I’d guess that hopefully the Le Pen vote will throw a spanner in that idea.

Personally I think the ordinary working people of the developed economies will continue to see conditions worsen while we continue with an uncontrolled globalised capitalist system, where multi national corporations have more power than elected governments and where the majority of those elected are in the pocket of the corporations of financials institutions.

The EU is part of this system, why do you think that the leadership of the Conservative party supports membership? I doubt it was because of the EU’s great record on social reform?
Why do you think the leaders of the multi-national corporations support membership? Because of the EU’s agenda on workers rights?
And what about the financial institution do think their support of the EU is because of the policy of wealth redistributioin from those institutions to the ordinary people?

The problem we have is we have a government and establishment who want to peruse the same global trade policies, that they’ve pushed in the EU. So I think we are screwed either way unless more people from more countries rise up against the present system.

I think there is something happening, the ongoing effects of the financial crash, which as always meant ordinary people suffering from austerity measures and high unemployment, especially youth unemployment in parts of Europe while those who caused it were bailed out and allowed to carry on lining their pockets and the fact the ideas can spread on social media without censorship from media outlets controlled by the rich and powerful means there is a ground swell of people who want change, but those in power and who have benefited from the present system aren’t going to give it away, they will fight, firstly with little sweetnes, properganda and trying to discredit anybody that pushes for change and if that fails they’ll get nasty.

muckles:
those in power and who have benefited from the present system aren’t going to give it away, they will fight, firstly with little sweetnes, properganda and trying to discredit anybody that pushes for change and if that fails they’ll get nasty.

The really scary bit seems to be that exploitative version of Capitalism now seems to have found its natural ally in the form of Communism.Which is why the BBC is acting like the Chinese admiration society and pushing the Commie agenda everywhere from France,in the form of clear bias in favour of Melenchon,to the US in what clearly seems to be support,not condemnation,of China and its clear ongoing support of North Korea.

Meanwhile it’s propably more likely that it will first have to descend into a Nationalist v Commy argument among the anti establishment factions before everyone actually gets their act together in smashing the globalist banker elites,if they ever do.With the so called ‘Leftists’/Liberals’ ( Commies ) being too stupid to realise that their chosen ideology and the people they look up to are actually part of the problem not the solution.

As for the establishment getting nasty the questions as to what/who really shut Farage up and why has Trump suddenly U turned on his Middle East policy at least,in which Assad is now suddenly bad and Erdogan and Saudi supported Wahabbist ‘rebels’ good,all based on a clearly set up/staged false flag operation,suggests it already has.On that note we can now probably add the coming French ‘elections’ to Erdogan’s Turkish stitch up.While May’s Brexit delaying/derailing scam continues as part of all that.

Franglais:
The Eu is not perfect, but it is better than no Eu. Would have been better to stay inside and improve it, IMHO.

Erm, how could we have improved it from within? David Cameron pushed for some reforms prior to the eu referendum ,only to be told to ■■■■ off basically…
Perhaps if the pig headed eu had allowed some deals the referendum result might have been different?
Stuff em-glad we’re finally on our way out

at out working class level itl make absolutely no noticable difference…if theres a plus point to slowing down the tsnuami of vermin flooding in on a daily basis then that has to be on the plus side,itl make no difference in the long run to the white genocide that prevails in the uk today,its only a matter of a cpl of generations until the indiginous white uk population is swamped by being outbred by the imigrating breeding and interbreeding mongrels of various shades.simple as that.

there will be pain when we leave the eu thats for sure but after a few years things should start too turn as we charter our destiny

muckles:
Personally I think the ordinary working people of the developed economies will continue to see conditions worsen while we continue with an uncontrolled globalised capitalist system, where multi national corporations have more power than elected governments and where the majority of those elected are in the pocket of the corporations of financials institutions.

The EU is part of this system, why do you think that the leadership of the Conservative party supports membership? I doubt it was because of the EU’s great record on social reform?
Why do you think the leaders of the multi-national corporations support membership? Because of the EU’s agenda on workers rights?
And what about the financial institution do think their support of the EU is because of the policy of wealth redistributioin from those institutions to the ordinary people?

The problem we have is we have a government and establishment who want to peruse the same global trade policies, that they’ve pushed in the EU. So I think we are screwed either way unless more people from more countries rise up against the present system.

I think there is something happening, the ongoing effects of the financial crash, which as always meant ordinary people suffering from austerity measures and high unemployment, especially youth unemployment in parts of Europe while those who caused it were bailed out and allowed to carry on lining their pockets and the fact the ideas can spread on social media without censorship from media outlets controlled by the rich and powerful means there is a ground swell of people who want change, but those in power and who have benefited from the present system aren’t going to give it away, they will fight, firstly with little sweetnes, properganda and trying to discredit anybody that pushes for change and if that fails they’ll get nasty.

+1 The working man/woman is screwed either way, and it will only get worse…

So when we were given the choice of saying more of the same please, or something different, you can’t be surprised by the result!