Trump. The last 'most powerful man on earth'?

I don’t often start political threads on here, but stay with me.

The first few months of Trump as president of the United States of America, the Commander in Chief, the man with his finger on the button, the ‘most powerfull leader of the world’, have seen him ■■■■■ slapped on two of his big election issues, and backtracking on the wall that he was going to get the Mexicans to build.
The slap in the face that is his inability to make good on 'repealing ObamaCare ', and especially the kick in the nuts that the overturn of his ‘Presidential Executive Order’ regards banning Muslims from entering America, are showing that far from ‘the most powerful leader in the world’, he, and by definition the office of the President of the United States, is no more than a ceremonial role, and that the real power lies in the Senate and House of Representatives.

Trump told us he wasn`t a politician, and the evidence so far seems to support that statement. A Republican President with a Republican majority in the House of Representatives and . . . . .not a lot so far. Wait until the mid term elections, and if the Democrats then get a majority. . . ?

I think everyone is united in being pleased that Trump is being slapped down at every turn. Albeit for different reasons. His enemies in the left think it’s great as he can’t exercise the power to their detriment, whilst his supporters will be more warm to him in his fight.

Trouble is, the majority of voters don’t actually understand how politics work. Trump won on a ticket of all politicians are corrupt, I’m not a politician. Now the electorate are watching on as the politicians who they believe to be corrupt, are ■■■■■ slapping the guy they sent in to change things.

What you will have is an electorate further from the politicians and more resonated to Trump, while the politicians risk alienating their voters over to Trump, as a lot of swing voters won’t like the lay of the land now, and others will just be down right disgusted that the corruption looks like it’s actually happening.

There is a lot of truth in what you say Jay.
Here is a President who campaigned about uniting America, who will undoubtedly soon say its all the "corrupt others" who are responsible for his failures to use the system. He will split the country deeper than now. He said he was a "deal maker", but cant strike a deal with HIS OWN party. Will he be man enough to say I got this, or that, wrong? Or just blame the nasty “others” again. Blaming the system is no way for any elected leader to behave, surely.

The Republicans aimed to Use and Discard Trump from the very beginning.

They needed his financial input to go up against the 9-figure Hilary campaign. Trump paid for his own campaign when all the Republicans together could not field a strong candidate of their own with a similar level of backing.
Now that Trump has unexpectedly won, those Republicans that were only there to “Hold the House” under a Democrat President originally - now find they are not on the same page as their new President at all on most things concerning the central running of the actual country.

Trump wants to run America like a business. That’s what his supporters backed him to do.
The Republicans only want to defend their “old guard” order, and for the time being - they are safe until the mid-terms at least.

Like Cameron coming back from the EU with “Nothing” however, they must realize that if they block Trump on ALL his flagship policies - Trump will have to resort to Cronyism to work around the Republican party, and get things done by “other means”. Meanwhile, Trump’s strongest supporters are what I’ll call the “Outdoor Workers” which includes the Military, Civil Engineers, Truckers, and of course - low paid workers in manual labour jobs.

The biggest thing holding Trump back at present is that he cannot ditch the Republican Party, and re-run for immediate re-election this time on an Independent Ticket.
If he did, I doubt that he’d lose much support if he did this SOON. He might even increase his popular vote count, because the Democrats would be blind-sided by a snap election.
However, I think this is unprecedented. Trump is obliged to either stay with the Republicans holding offices of state until 2020 - or personally resign and leave the Republicans holding offices of state until 2020. :frowning:
If the public strongly vote against the Republicans in the mid-terms, then that drop in support will be blamed upon Trump.

He’s kinda backed into a corner, with no profitable way out - isn’t he?

The system needs to be changed, whilst he’s still in a position to do thus. He’ll need to use his own people of course, because he doesn’t really have a party machine behind him - just acting against him.

Let the purge begin - or get that resignation letter drafted already. There’s no sitting on the fence on this one. :neutral_face:

Winseer:
.

He’s kinda backed into a corner, with no profitable way out - isn’t he?

The system needs to be changed, whilst he’s still in a position to do thus. He’ll need to use his own people of course, because he doesn’t really have a party machine behind him - just acting against him.

Let the purge begin - or get that resignation letter drafted already. There’s no sitting on the fence on this one. :neutral_face:

What`s a good first move for him? Burn the Reichst… sorry, House Of Representatives?

It’s a toothless Presidency.

By trying to sabotage Trump’s election promises (how unusual a politician who means to carry out what he vowed to) the establishment are endearing him even more people than they can imagine, see what happens at the next election.
They, the elites, are proving they are disconnected from the vast majority of people who wanted Trump and all the promises he made.

It’s early days, he hasn’t given up, there are chinks being prised into the armour of the travel ban denying judges rulings, he’ll get what he (and the vast majority of US citizens) wants eventually, and he’ll redesign the replacement for Obamacare in due course too.

No one ever said what he set out to do was going to be easy, those with their noses deep in the trough arn’t going to be dragged out of the £swill without a fight.

Just like the EU troughers, aided and abetted by their media stooges, plus the thousands of useful idiots who were once again calling for an end to true democracy on the streets of that london yesterday, they don’t want the changes that are coming, but like Trump’s adversaries they’ll have to learn to live with what they don’t like, just the same as many of us (me included) have had to live with the fourth reich running europe for the past 40 years (without a shot being fired :unamused: ) which we didn’t like and until Sir NIgel came on the scene and planted the seeds we were powerless to do anything about.
Well it’s their, the elite’s and media’s, turn to have to live with changes they don’t like.

Tough, they’ll just have get over it, retire gracefully and live out their days spending all the loot they’ve sucked from the rest of us.

Juddian:
s, he’ll get what he (and the vast majority of US citizens) wants eventually,

For the record:
edition.cnn.com/election/results/president
Electoral Votes were Trump 306 Clinton 232.

However the numbers of individual votes were Trump 62.9million Clinton 65.8million

So the majority of voters wanted Clinton.

Franglais:

Juddian:
s, he’ll get what he (and the vast majority of US citizens) wants eventually,

For the record:
edition.cnn.com/election/results/president
Electoral Votes were Trump 306 Clinton 232.

However the numbers of individual votes were Trump 62.9million Clinton 65.8million

So the majority of voters wanted Clinton.

To be fair to the Americans, it appears that the majority of voters wanted neither of the two… Americans were left with an impossible choice.

More like the realisation that the US is now anything but united and torn between what are effectively Socialist values v Nationalist ones.While as part of that it seems obvious that Trump is being subjected to double standards regarding his ‘Presidential’ powers.IE Obama was given the full range of executive powers at his disposal while Trump suddenly needs to get approval for everything which doesn’t suit the Hilary agenda.The result of all this can only be increasing mistrust of the US government process among the US electorate and division among an increasingly polarised population.

Ironically hopefully leading to the eventual realisation that the idea of a Presidential led Federation is just an abuse of the democratic process anyway and that a Confederal system,which allows the States to go their own seperate ways,regarding domestic and respective foreign policy,is the only solution.With it being obvious that California’s effectively Socialist regime is never going to accept the Nationalist agendas of Texas and the rust belt for just one example.While if it just tries to carry on as usual on its present lines the place is inevitably going to be increasingly ungovernable.With as usual the Socialists thinking they have a god given right to dictate policy even when the electorate rejects it.The fact that people like George Wallace once could have stood as a Democrat showing just how far that the US has fallen into Obama’s Socialist agenda driven cess pit in that regard.

Franglais:
Trump told us he wasn`t a politician, and the evidence so far seems to support that statement. A Republican President with a Republican majority in the House of Representatives and . . . . .not a lot so far. Wait until the mid term elections, and if the Democrats then get a majority. . . ?

Trump is the outsider even with the Republicans, its what attracted voters to him, an anti-establishment vote. We’re seeing similar all across Western democracies, normal working people feeling nobody is there listening to them or representing their views in the corridors of power, those in power are in the pocket of the global capitalist, multi-national corporations, they couldn’t push policies to help the working classes at the detriment to their pay masters of global capitalism even if they wanted to, even those who profess to be working for social justice only seem to be working for minority groups, again to the detriment of the ordinary working person.

I assume those in the Establishment and their backers are hoping populism fails, and will be doing all they can to make sure it happens using the media and dirty tricks department and throwing a few scraps from the table.

But I fear what might happen, if in a few years the populist movement is sidelined and the established parties have still failed to address the issues
If ordinary people are still struggling with worse pay and condition, more Job insecurity, more debt, more cheap labour and more industry moved to places where costs are lower, then I’m sure we will see civil unrest or revolution, it doesn’t take much, just read a bit of history.

the nodding donkey:
I don’t often start political threads on here, but stay with me.

The first few months of Trump as president of the United States of America, the Commander in Chief, the man with his finger on the button, the ‘most powerfull leader of the world’, have seen him ■■■■■ slapped on two of his big election issues, and backtracking on the wall that he was going to get the Mexicans to build.
The slap in the face that is his inability to make good on 'repealing ObamaCare ', and especially the kick in the nuts that the overturn of his ‘Presidential Executive Order’ regards banning Muslims from entering America, are showing that far from ‘the most powerful leader in the world’, he, and by definition the office of the President of the United States, is no more than a ceremonial role, and that the real power lies in the Senate and House of Representatives.

The most powefull man on earth Trump?,nah i would say Jacob or Evelyn de Rothschild would be more accurate,the heads of the 1% of the 1% who really call the shots,Trumps just the latest throw of the dice by his puppetmaster controllers,more thanlikely Netanyahus ■■■■■.
ll

muckles:
But I fear what might happen, if in a few years the populist movement is sidelined and the established parties have still failed to address the issues
If ordinary people are still struggling with worse pay and condition, more Job insecurity, more debt, more cheap labour and more industry moved to places where costs are lower, then I’m sure we will see civil unrest or revolution, it doesn’t take much, just read a bit of history.

Can Trump deliver on the promises he made? I doubt it. Nothing to do with the “establishment” thwarting him, although he will claim thats what it is. A set of "apple pie for all" promises that are and always were undeliverable. The USA isnt one of Trumps companies where employees do as bidden, or get sacked. And the rest of the world certainly isnt beholden to him either. When Trump fails, he wont say "Oh, well, I tried, but I couldnt do it" will he? Hell blame the system and just look at Winseers post: “The system needs to be changed, whilst he’s still in a position to do thus. He’ll need to use his own people of course, because he doesn’t really have a party machine behind him - just acting against him.”
I think society in the West will be changing soon, and I hope it will be a peaceful change. The mechanisation/automation of work and loss of jobs should be a boon as we all work a few days a week for a living wage, but currently we have fully employed people supporting those who have no/not enough work, and are forced to work for little by the threat of those unemployed undercutting them to obtain work. The system will not go on much longer. Our worries are real, but the speeches of Trump recognize our worries but offer no real solutions, just vacuous promises.
Credit where its due he ran a good election campaign, I never thought he had a chance, but he did it. I hope to be eating my words in a few years as Pres Trump makes a good job of it all, but I may go hungry yet. Im afraid that you`re right, we do “live in interesting times”.

Franglais:
Trump told us he wasn`t a politician, and the evidence so far seems to support that statement. A Republican President with a Republican majority in the House of Representatives and . . . . .not a lot so far. Wait until the mid term elections, and if the Democrats then get a majority. . . ?

Exactly, people were conned into thinking ‘not a politician’ was a good thing but are now realising it isn’t. For all their faults, and they have a great many, politicians do know how to get s… done and rule a country

Franglais:

Winseer:
.

He’s kinda backed into a corner, with no profitable way out - isn’t he?

The system needs to be changed, whilst he’s still in a position to do thus. He’ll need to use his own people of course, because he doesn’t really have a party machine behind him - just acting against him.

Let the purge begin - or get that resignation letter drafted already. There’s no sitting on the fence on this one. :neutral_face:

What`s a good first move for him? Burn the Reichst… sorry, House Of Representatives?

No. I guess he’ll have to do what he was famous for in the first place.

“Your Fired!”

Carryfast:
.IE Obama was given the full range of executive powers at his disposal while Trump suddenly needs to get approval for everything which doesn’t suit the Hilary agenda.

Sorry but that isn’t remotely true, Obama was thwarted time and time again by Congress, in fact many including me would go so far as to say Obama was a disappointing President because so much of what he wanted to do was kicked into the long grass by a Republican controlled congress. But even if it were true that is the job of opposition, to scrutinise every bit of legislation. A county without a strong opposition is in a bad place, like the UK now and US to some extent. And besides, Trump has signed a string of executive orders so far

Winseer:

Franglais:

Winseer:
.

He’s kinda backed into a corner, with no profitable way out - isn’t he?

The system needs to be changed, whilst he’s still in a position to do thus. He’ll need to use his own people of course, because he doesn’t really have a party machine behind him - just acting against him.

Let the purge begin - or get that resignation letter drafted already. There’s no sitting on the fence on this one. :neutral_face:

What`s a good first move for him? Burn the Reichst… sorry, House Of Representatives?

No. I guess he’ll have to do what he was famous for in the first place.

“Your Fired!”

OK, that qualifies for a smilie. :smiley:

Franglais:

muckles:
But I fear what might happen, if in a few years the populist movement is sidelined and the established parties have still failed to address the issues
If ordinary people are still struggling with worse pay and condition, more Job insecurity, more debt, more cheap labour and more industry moved to places where costs are lower, then I’m sure we will see civil unrest or revolution, it doesn’t take much, just read a bit of history.

Can Trump deliver on the promises he made? I doubt it. Nothing to do with the “establishment” thwarting him, although he will claim that`s what it is.

It’s clear that the US establishment certainly is thwarting Trump’s mandate by applying double standards regarding the definition of Presidental powers in the case of Obama as opposed to now Trump.IE Obama was given free reign to exercise his Presidential powers because he was on message with what the establishment wanted while Trump is blocked from implementing his mandate at every turn.

As for the issue of a failed democratic process being settled by resort to arms.It happened before there in 1861 and it’s no surprise that it was Obama’s administration and the establishment that wanted/wants to disarm any perceived potential opposition to it.Your own statement being a clear confirmation that the Socialists won’t let democracy,in the form of Trump’s democratic mandate,stand in their way.In this case by just selectively using and taking advantage of the definition of Presidential power when it suits them and ignoring it and/or re writing it when it doesn’t.

On that note people seem to be massively under estimating the dangers there,in the Obama type agenda thinking it has a god given right to rule,by selectively taking advantage of the Federal government system when it suits it and ignoring it when it doesn’t and regardless of what the electorate wants.With the US now facing a similar constitutional crisis as it faced in 1861 this time in the form of the irreconcilable differences between Socialist v Nationalist factions.Those differences also applying across the Western World.

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
.IE Obama was given the full range of executive powers at his disposal while Trump suddenly needs to get approval for everything which doesn’t suit the Hilary agenda.

Sorry but that isn’t remotely true, Obama was thwarted time and time again by Congress, in fact many including me would go so far as to say Obama was a disappointing President because so much of what he wanted to do was kicked into the long grass by a Republican controlled congress. But even if it were true that is the job of opposition, to scrutinise every bit of legislation. A county without a strong opposition is in a bad place, like the UK now and US to some extent. And besides, Trump has signed a string of executive orders so far

Name one executive order made by Obama that was ever stopped by the supreme court or congress ?.Executive Orders by definition meaning that they come under Presidential legislature remit only and are/should be therefore unstoppable by any other part of the US legislature.Just as was the case with Obama’s numerous impositions during his tenure.

On that note if the Democrats etc really want a Confederal system then they would/should obviously support a Confederal system.As opposed to using/supporting the idea of the Federal government system when and as it suits them and then going crying to Congress and the Courts and calling for secession for California etc etc when it doesn’t.On that note it’s strange how they were all for a US ruled by Obama,who of course admired Lincoln,but not a California ruled by Trump in that regard in which case they suddenly go full on secessionist.IE Hypocrites who’ll do anything to further their Socialist ideology. :unamused:

reuters.com/article/us-usa-t … SKBN1572KB