Harry Monk:
So to summarise, you applied for one job which didn’t result in a job offer and from that you conclude that it wasn’t possible to get continental work without lying or providing fake references? Why didn’t you try applying for more jobs?
Ah we’re back to the fact Carryfast couldn’t find an international job in the heyday of British transport companies going abroad. Seems it baffles you as much as me
Carryfast:
as expected soon got the phone call sorry we can’t do the job we offered you but will you be ok with doing UK work out of our Northampton depot.
Did it really not cross your mind that starting on UK work for a company that had an international side might have been your foot in the door? Prove yourself on UK and the day will come, and back then probably sooner rather than later, that you’ll be in the right place at the right time and off to Italy or some such. Or as Harry said try applying for more than one job! I do feel sorry for you as I know how much I wanted to do euro work and how I’d feel of I’d missed the boat! Though to be fair I worked hard to get the regular international work I did and went through many jobs/companies to find the right one, Virginia. You should have had more perseverance old bean.
albion:
It depends on luck and personality.Most 23 year olds don’t think they could move from driving a car derived van for |Europarts to tootling around Europe on the recommendation of a mate, but that’s the way ‘my’ youngest got into working for us. Nice lad + decent attitude = more interesting that an RDC job
That was my point.No one said it was going to be a matter of ‘luck’ and ‘personality’ and ‘who you know’ then or now when they said/say start at the bottom take anything thrown at you then you can move on to all that supposed better work which was supposedly out there with no takers.So with that in mind why should telling anyone that I’d been driving all sorts of rigids from 7.5 t D series on general haulage and up to 38 t fire trucks and 24t gritters and a multi lift wagon doing plant and bulk refuse just earn’t effectively derisory laughter on the phone when trying for international drawbar work and at worse,even later with some artic trunking added to it,at best got me an offer of yet more UK work in being turned down for a previously offered international job.Or at worse going backwards with driving a scaffolding truck and other building type crap and 7.5 t multi drop having had to resort to the agency for a while.After voluntarily being laid off temporarily to help out a senior driver from another depot who’d been given the choice of move and take my job or be made redundant.
Make no mistake the industry has always had a problem with too much crap work and finding suitable naive mugs to do it and vice versa with too many drivers wanting too much of a good thing at the expense of the former.Now with a few changes which have removed most of the latter options for the latter group.
switchlogic:
Harry Monk:
So to summarise, you applied for one job which didn’t result in a job offer and from that you conclude that it wasn’t possible to get continental work without lying or providing fake references? Why didn’t you try applying for more jobs?Ah we’re back to the fact Carryfast couldn’t find an international job in the heyday of British transport companies going abroad. Seems it baffles you as much as me
Doesn’t baffle me, read his posts, imagine you’re interviewing him for a job. 
switchlogic:
Did it really not cross your mind that starting on UK work for a company that had an international side might have been your foot in the door? Prove yourself on UK and the day will come, .
Yep it was like that with S&K, they even stated this at the interview.
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
So to summarise, you applied for one job which didn’t result in a job offer and from that you conclude that it wasn’t possible to get continental work without lying or providing fake references? Why didn’t you try applying for more jobs?To be fair Harry that was just an enquiry which even resulted in an interview.Most if not all were stopped before that point with the usual wording must have international ‘experience’ either in the very rare advert or more often at the phone call stage that’s even if there were any vacancies.Forget all about trying IPEC/TNT in that regard for one example.We’ll put you on the waiting list yeah right.
The fact is if it was that easy to walk into and not the elitist self serving scam for some that it really was the agencies would have been full of such work.With drivers then asking the agencies for some of the numerous local work so they could get some home life as a balance.Instead of which as I’ve said we had some bored out of their skulls on a constant diet of local zb from building deliveries to 7.5 t multi drop and at best night trunking and others moaning about being away too long on constant international turn arounds to see their families.Now nothing has changed except the fact that the UK international running sector has been replaced by cheaper third country East Euro operations and trunking work has now turned into Hub system and RDC type dross to add to the building deliveries and multi drop type crap.
Well, there were thousands, if not tens of thousands of us doing continental work in the 1980s and we all started out with no continental experience. The only real advantage I had was to live in an area where, because of its proximity to the Channel ports, there was a large concentration of international hauliers. I got my first job simply by deciding one day to drive around all of the firms doing continental work asking for a job, and as things happened, the first firm I called at needed a driver that day to take a load to Manchester, so I did that and then the following evening shipped out to go to to northern France.
So maybe there was an element of luck there, but I didn’t lie about the fact that I’d not been abroad in a truck before and I think you’d very quickly be “found out” if you tried that, and I didn’t have “connections” or have to provide references so I can’t really see how it could be an “elitist, self-serving scam”.
The simple fact is that you had just as much chance of getting a job doing continental work as the rest of us, you just didn’t try hard enough.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
as expected soon got the phone call sorry we can’t do the job we offered you but will you be ok with doing UK work out of our Northampton depot.Did it really not cross your mind that starting on UK work for a company that had an international side might have been your foot in the door? Prove yourself on UK and the day will come, and back then probably sooner rather than later, that you’ll be in the right place at the right time and off to Italy or some such. Or as Harry said try applying for more than one job! I do feel sorry for you as I know how much I wanted to do euro work and how I’d feel of I’d missed the boat! Though to be fair I worked hard to get the regular international work I did and went through many jobs/companies to find the right one, Virginia. You should have had more perseverance old bean.
No what crossed my mind was that I’d done enough to prove myself on UK by that point.Obviously from what I’ve seen here with plenty of others younger and with less time in the job behind them in that regard already seemingly out there getting on with it.
While that whole premise falls apart anyway with the question why did I need any ‘foot in the door’ on UK in Northampton when I’d already been offered the bleedin job on International in Kent.So chose the logical option of stay where I was having luckily not trusted them to honour their offer in that regard.
While I can’t believe that you really think that was the only job that I’d tried for from the point when I got my licence in 1980.To the point when I went out of the job around 20 years later with a knackered back.Now awaits being told that was my fault too.Here’s a clue one of the benefits of using a log book on the council and working nights after that was that it created plenty of time to spend on the phone during the day enquiring about potential vacancies with a phone bill to match if not filling out pointless application forms.
On that note there’s probably more continental work now than there was then the difference is it’s mostly going on East Euro trucks and it’s my guess that as much as anything might explain why many of them would rightly rather go home and earn less than earn relatively more working here.If all the unfilled job adverts for van/7.5t/Class 2 multi drop and building delivery work etc etc is anything to go by.In which case I’d guess that you might find the type of parallel universe that Harry seems to be describing concerning 1980’s UK. 
Carryfast:
[So with that in mind why should telling anyone that I’d been driving all sorts of rigids from 7.5 t D series on general haulage and up to 38 t fire trucks and 24t gritters and a multi lift wagon doing plant and bulk refuse just earn’t effectively derisory laughter on the phone when trying for international drawbar work .
I spent 4 years driving coaches round the UK and Europe, from double Deckers on skiing work to luxury holidays in Norway
and the experience counted for diddly squat when I wanted to drive trucks abroad. But unlike you I didn’t just give up and kept on trying. Was another 3 years before I got to drive a truck abroad. And this in the noughties when the number of British truck drivers on international work was a fraction of the 70s/80s
Carryfast:
No what crossed my mind was that I’d done enough to prove myself on UK by that point.
I think it’s safe to say your attitude and sense of entitlement are what let you down. You need to prove yourself in every new job, the company doesn’t know you from Adam. I’ve just started a new job and it’s up to me to prove myself as much as it is 21 year old newbie, it’s the way of the world.
Reef:
switchlogic:
Did it really not cross your mind that starting on UK work for a company that had an international side might have been your foot in the door? Prove yourself on UK and the day will come, .Yep it was like that with S&K, they even stated this at the interview.
Same at Virginia. Few weeks on Ireland UK work followed by a couple of short European runs then boom one day ‘head to Liffey Meats and load for Portugal’
Harry Monk:
Well, there were thousands, if not tens of thousands of us doing continental work in the 1980s and we all started out with no continental experience. The only real advantage I had was to live in an area where, because of its proximity to the Channel ports, there was a large concentration of international hauliers. I got my first job simply by deciding one day to drive around all of the firms doing continental work asking for a job, and as things happened, the first firm I called at needed a driver that day to take a load to Manchester, so I did that and then the following evening shipped out to go to to northern France.So maybe there was an element of luck there, but I didn’t lie about the fact that I’d not been abroad in a truck before and I think you’d very quickly be “found out” if you tried that, and I didn’t have “connections” or have to provide references so I can’t really see how it could be an “elitist, self-serving scam”.
The simple fact is that you had just as much chance of getting a job doing continental work as the rest of us, you just didn’t try hard enough.
Blimey Harry did you miss the bit where I said that I’d actually been ‘offered’ a job in Dover not a million miles away from where I lived in near Leatherhead.Although what does it matter on a job where you’re generally going to be out for a while not commuting every day.On that note I applied for numerous jobs all over the country and never found much difference in the potential job market for such work between Kent/Midlands/North.But what I also did find in this supposed free for all utopia you’ve described was guvnors whingeing about Class 2 applying for draw bar work and not living close to their depot even if they’d have wanted to give anyone without international experience a chance after that. 
Now awaits DEANB to hopefully help to bust this myth with some evidence in the day of what it was really like to be one of the many unsuccessful hopefuls often left with the choice of being agency fodder or something like a council job or tippers.Or trunking if they were very lucky.
Carryfast:
Now seemingly also able to walk into any agency office and ask for a few days work as and when he feels like it while others can get as much distance work as they want.
I forgot to answer this point of yours, so I’ll do my best to address it now.
I don’t claim to be able to “walk into any agency office and ask for a few days work as and when I feel like it”. I’ve been registered with the same agency for the last three years, and when I moved on to my boat I went to see them and explained what I wanted, namely as much work as they could provide me with between September and March, but that I wouldn’t be available to do anything between March and September. So, being an agency they work around that. Perhaps they would rather I was available in July and August, which are busy months, but I’m not. There is some advantage to them in that when work slackens off, typically in February, I don’t get bent out of shape if they don’t have work for me.
So again, I didn’t use my magical powers or “the Old Boy network” to get the work I do, simply went along to see them and said my thing. It’s not rocket science.
Harry Monk:
Carryfast:
Now seemingly also able to walk into any agency office and ask for a few days work as and when he feels like it while others can get as much distance work as they want.I forgot to answer this point of yours, so I’ll do my best to address it now.
I don’t claim to be able to “walk into any agency office and ask for a few days work as and when I feel like it”. I’ve been registered with the same agency for the last three years, and when I moved on to my boat I went to see them and explained what I wanted, namely as much work as they could provide me with between September and March, but that I wouldn’t be available to do anything between March and September. So, being an agency they work around that. Perhaps they would rather I was available in July and August, which are busy months, but I’m not. There is some advantage to them in that when work slackens off, typically in February, I don’t get bent out of shape if they don’t have work for me.
So again, I didn’t use my magical powers or “the Old Boy network” to get the work I do, simply went along to see them and said my thing. It’s not rocket science.
This. If my short stint as a failed transport manager taught me anything is how hard it is to find decent, well presented reliable truck drivers who’ll turn up and do what asked when asked so if your are one of these most companies/agencies will do their level best to work around your needs
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
No what crossed my mind was that I’d done enough to prove myself on UK by that point.I think it’s safe to say your attitude and sense of entitlement are what let you down. You need to prove yourself in every new job, the company doesn’t know you from Adam. I’ve just started a new job and it’s up to me to prove myself as much as it is 21 year old newbie, it’s the way of the world.
Someone drives a taxi until they are 25 then drives a truck to Manchester and then gets sent off on International having proved themselves with that one run.Meanwhile years of starting at the bottom working your way up driving numerous types of trucks just with different UK only operation employers doesn’t count.Go figure. 
So why didn’t the guvnor where I went for an interview in Kent tell me all that at the start instead of offering me a job ?.While how does your theory work in the case of only international operators and you’re saying that every driver had to do UK only before being offered any international work when changing jobs.
All seems to fit an elitist scam to me.If you’re lucky enough to do a bit of UK within the right International operation environment you’re in.If you spend years doing everything the job chucks at you in a UK only environment somewhere else then no chance.
Harry Monk:
I forgot to answer this point of yours, so I’ll do my best to address it now.I don’t claim to be able to “walk into any agency office and ask for a few days work as and when I feel like it”. I’ve been registered with the same agency for the last three years, and when I moved on to my boat I went to see them and explained what I wanted, namely as much work as they could provide me with between September and March, but that I wouldn’t be available to do anything between March and September. So, being an agency they work around that. Perhaps they would rather I was available in July and August, which are busy months, but I’m not. There is some advantage to them in that when work slackens off, typically in February, I don’t get bent out of shape if they don’t have work for me.
So again, I didn’t use my magical powers or “the Old Boy network” to get the work I do, simply went along to see them and said my thing. It’s not rocket science.
Not exactly the same thing as ‘do as much or as little as you want’ ? ( in the course of a week ? ).While my observations suggest that it’s more likely that agencies will want full time often enforced overtime and 6 days per week being more likely than the option of saying 3 days only thanks.Usually here at least being the usual diet of multi drop/warehouse/labouring/building type deliveries/etc etc whether it’s vans or trucks.
Again with agency work, you have to start at the bottom and work up. At first, as an unknown quantity, work was a little sporadic and not very well paid but after a while I had a reputation for turning up on time, every time for every job (you’d be amazed how many “no-shows” transport companies have with agency drivers), being polite, presentable and looking after the equipment, so then you soon become the first person the agency look to, to send to their better-paying higher-quality clients.
Perhaps they would rather I was working all year round, but the whole point of doing agency work for many of us is that we don’t want that. Even just working for six months a year, they are probably making around £3,000 in placement fees by having me there at no extra cost to themselves.
Carryfast:
No what crossed my mind was that I’d done enough to prove myself on UK by that point.Obviously from what I’ve seen here with plenty of others younger and with less time in the job behind them in that regard already seemingly out there getting on with it.
It doesn’t matter how much you have done to “prove yourself” if you don’t actually make contact with the bloke who is pulling his hair out because he has an urgent load to go to Italy and a truck sitting in the yard with no-one to drive it.
Making phone calls and filling in application forms has always been a waste of time. The way I got a start was to turn up at a haulage firm with my driving licence, passport and my night-out kit in the boot of my car and to be prepared to drive out of the yard in one of their trucks 20 minutes later.
switchlogic:
Reef:
switchlogic:
Did it really not cross your mind that starting on UK work for a company that had an international side might have been your foot in the door? Prove yourself on UK and the day will come, .Yep it was like that with S&K, they even stated this at the interview.
Same at Virginia. Few weeks on Ireland UK work followed by a couple of short European runs then boom one day ‘head to Liffey Meats and load for Portugal’
I should also add that I’d had my class 1 less than a year at that point and they gave me a start, ok it didn’t work out and I said thanks but no thanks after one day but the point is if you want the work it is there.
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Harry Monk:
Making phone calls and filling in application forms has always been a waste of time. The way I got a start was to turn up at a haulage firm with my driving licence, passport and my night-out kit in the boot of my car and to be prepared to drive out of the yard in one of their trucks 20 minutes later.
Ironically the council job I did for 5 years came from answering an advert in the local paper by phone call.The night trunking job I did for 15 years resulted from a cold call on the phone and told to come in for an interview and then told to start as soon as I could so not so different from what you’ve described after all in that case.Bearing in mind that your idea ain’t going to work anyway in the case of being in a job with a contractual notice period and just looking for a change.Or for that matter if you walk into a yard without a name to see and an invite and get told to vacate the place by the security guard.Or for that matter even if the supposed employer willing to take someone on within 20 minutes of them arriving at their office door as a total stranger is in one part of the country while you’re somewhere else calling on them.
While the job in Kent,which I was actually offered,was also virtually a repeat of the start I got in the trunking job,in being asked to come in for an interview in reply to another cold phone call.Then asked to complete the application form on arrival after effectively already having been told that I’d got the job with a start date at that point.While assuming that everything you’ve said is right then they certainly wouldn’t have bothered to 1 offer me the job and 2 make a very apologetic call telling me that the offer was taken off the table.When they just could have taken your and switch’s attitude telling me to zb off it’s all my own fault and they were glad I wasted my time and petrol answering their request for an interview.
Reef:
I should also add that I’d had my class 1 less than a year at that point and they gave me a start, ok it didn’t work out and I said thanks but no thanks after one day
To be fair I probably would have said the same before I’d even left Calais driving a Merc specced with that awful EPS gear box. 
