ROG:
I reckon the majority of drivers never fall foul of the RTD because they take a 45 or 15 + 30 driving time break before any RTD break is neededIts seems to be the back half of a shift when some fall foul of the 15 min rule
YEP just a shame they cant make things easier and simple.
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?
Am I right?
ezydriver:
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?Am I right?
what does it say for rule (1) ?
Honestly - try doing this with a classroom of 20 drivers. Should be simple but just ends up going round in circles - as soon as one gets it, another forgets it or just won’t listen.
I thought I’d got it in a way it made sense, as simple as possible then you hear them talking in the canteen area and their back to the same 30m at 6 hours etc etc so we have to go over it again.
The last DCPC I went on as a customer was wrong - 30m at or before 6h then 30m at or before 9h then 45m at or before 12h 
… but at least what they said wouldn’t be illegal - and the driver would get loads of breaks 
I emailed the company afterwards to query what they had said (rather than challenge the guy in front of people) and got no reply … £116 for a 7 hour course and get ignored 
Coffeeholic:
You could work 6 hours, take 15 minutes, work another 6 hours and take another 15 then take a final 15 before the end of the shift. Thirty minutes of break not taken before 9 hours of work exceeded but perfectly legal for the WTD.
But then you will have failed to interrupt a shift of 9 hours with a break of 30 minutes 
But what you’re saying is that if I work longer than 9 hours, as long as I interupt that shift with a 45 min break (or 3 x 15 min breaks ) then I’m legal. As long as I don’t work longer than 6 hours without a break. ( which must be at least 15 mins)
MAT:
Coffeeholic:
You could work 6 hours, take 15 minutes, work another 6 hours and take another 15 then take a final 15 before the end of the shift. Thirty minutes of break not taken before 9 hours of work exceeded but perfectly legal for the WTD.But then you will have failed to interrupt a shift of 9 hours with a break of 30 minutes
But what you’re saying is that if I work longer than 9 hours, as long as I interupt that shift with a 45 min break (or 3 x 15 min breaks ) then I’m legal. As long as I don’t work longer than 6 hours without a break. ( which must be at least 15 mins)
That’s correct, you only need to interrupt a shift of 9 hours with a break of 30 minutes if the shift will not go over 9 hours working time.
It’s one or the other not both 
ezydriver:
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?Am I right?
Very nearly right.
You can work up-to 6 hours without a break, the shift does not have to be less than 6 hours.
If you work up-to 9 hours you must have a break/breaks of at-least 30 minutes and 15 minutes of that break should be taken before exceeding 6 hours working time.
If the shift is more than 9 hours working time you need to have a total of at-least 45 minutes of break/breaks, but at no point in the shift should you work more than 6 hours before having a 15 minute break.
So for instance if you was doing a 13 hour shift, you would need a 15 minute break before going over 6 hours, you would need another 15 minute break no later than 6 hours from the end of the first break.
ROG:
ezydriver:
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?Am I right?
what does it say for rule (1) ?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
What’s your point?
ezydriver:
ROG:
ezydriver:
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?Am I right?
what does it say for rule (1) ?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
What’s your point?
You have answered your own question
Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
ROG:
ezydriver:
ROG:
ezydriver:
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?Am I right?
what does it say for rule (1) ?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
What’s your point?
You have answered your own question
Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
Rule number one does not state how long the break should be - merely a break should be taken. My question was attempting to ascertain the compulsory length of the break.
What is the matter with some people,why do they find a need to work for 6 hours and only have 15 minutes break,just because their schedule is not timed right
The traffic office don`t work that long with out at least 30min break so why should you,get a life and have your break when you need it not when your schedule dictates it
ezydriver:
ROG:
ezydriver:
ROG:
ezydriver:
So if the shift is less than six hours - no break required.
If it is between 6 and 9, then 30 minutes is required. Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
If it is more than 9 then 45 mins are required, which can be taken in 15 min chunks, the first 15 of which needs to be taken before 6 hours?Am I right?
what does it say for rule (1) ?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
What’s your point?
You have answered your own question
Does 15 need to be taken before 6 hours?
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
Rule number one does not state how long the break should be - merely a break should be taken. My question was attempting to ascertain the compulsory length of the break.
15min … all breaks need to be a min 15min .
ezydriver:
Rule number one does not state how long the break should be - merely a break should be taken. My question was attempting to ascertain the compulsory length of the break.
See rule (2) in the order I used - rule (4) in the original
MAT:
Coffeeholic:
You could work 6 hours, take 15 minutes, work another 6 hours and take another 15 then take a final 15 before the end of the shift. Thirty minutes of break not taken before 9 hours of work exceeded but perfectly legal for the WTD.But then you will have failed to interrupt a shift of 9 hours with a break of 30 minutes
But it’s not a shift with 9 hours work, it’s more than 9 hours therefore this does not apply
If the shift is no more than 9 hours working time it should be interrupted with a break/breaks totalling at-least 30 minutes.
so you move on to the next bit of the regulations -
If the shift is longer than 9 hours working time it should be interrupted with a break/breaks totalling at-least 45 minutes.
That means you don’t at any point in the shift go more than 6 hours without at least 15 minutes break and within the shift you have break(s) totalling 45 minutes. That’s it, no requirement to have a certain amount of break before exceeding 9 hours work other than the 15 required for 6 hours work.
I really don’t see why this causes so much confusion, it couldn’t be much clearer.
The regulations state the maximum amount of work allowed without a break.
They gives two requirements based on the total amount of work in the shift and you use whichever one applies to the shift, not both.
They state the minimum length of a break for it to qualify as a break.
How much easier to understand could that be?
I do not think some are getting the concept of choosing but prefer to think that both apply
ROG:
I do not think some are getting the concept of choosing but prefer to think that both apply
Agreed ROG but it could not be more clear and easy to understand.
Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall take break(s) totalling at least 30 minutes and interrupting that period.
Shift less than 6 hours working time or more than 9 then that obviously does not apply as it is very specific in the amount of work it does apply to. Do 5:59 or 9:01 you need to find a different part of the regulations.
So when that doesn’t apply you go looking for what does apply to your shift and that’s when you either need no break for the regulations because you have done 6 hours.
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
or you need a total of 45 minutes because you have done more than 9.
Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall take break(s) totalling at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
Clear, no grey area and if people take the time to actually read it and take in what they are reading simple.
It’s not that simple if since its inception it has always been understood one way, that this understanding has been shared with other drivers and even dcpc trainers, and then suddenly that understanding is shown to be incorrect. For example, I have always believed that once you’ve been on duty for 6 hours, you then need one break of 30 minutes if you haven’t already - this is not strictly true it seems. I, for one, had no idea it could be split into 15 min breaks. In the early days I made an assumption it could, and I did split it, and I received a WTD infringement for it, and therefore never split into 15s again. This is where my personal confusion stemmed from.
Learning the correct understanding from a forum thread after understanding the WTD a completely different way since its introduction, and with conflicting agreement amongst posters who have different ways of attempting to simplify things, is, or can be a temporarily confusing feat. So pardon us for not quite grasping it. It is actually easy to grasp, I agree, but not before a quick rewiring and a few spluttered backfires.
ezydriver:
It’s not that simple if since its inception it has always been understood one way, that this understanding has been shared with other drivers and even dcpc trainers, and then suddenly that understanding is shown to be incorrect. For example, I have always believed that once you’ve been on duty for 6 hours, you then need one break of 30 minutes if you haven’t already - this is not strictly true it seems. I, for one, had no idea it could be split into 15 min breaks. In the early days I made an assumption it could, and I did split it, and I received a WTD infringement for it, and therefore never split into 15s again. This is where my personal confusion stemmed from.Learning the correct understanding from a forum thread after understanding the WTD a completely different way since its introduction, and with conflicting agreement amongst posters who have different ways of attempting to simplify things, is, or can be a temporarily confusing feat. So pardon us for not quite grasping it. It is actually easy to grasp, I agree, but not before a quick rewiring and a few spluttered backfires.
Many read two lines and put them together instead of taking each in turn - (1) + (2) of the original draft then some companies and I believe some analysis agents programmed that into the checking system
Some companies still insist on the driver having 30 for 6 which is fine if the driver is getting paid to comply with company policy
i start at 0600 most days or what ever time i start i will take a 30 min break before the 6 hours just to cover me taco & WTD, if i know i won’t be driving for 4.5 hours in the first 6 hours ,and then it covers me for 9 hours then when i reach 4.5 hours of drive time i will take another 30 break and wipe the slate clean.
it works for me no infringments taco or wtd…happy days 