Would you take the truck back?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
201

discoman:
Are you a yes man, you always seem to defend the employers … jeez the uk did what was right for him, and agency’s don’t give a flying hoot about drivers they are just a means to earn money and be used when required and fobbed off when not.

No, I’m not a yes man. I’m an operator myself. Only one at the moment but I have ambition for more.

So I see both sides of the argument here but it is my firm belief that the only time you walk away from a job at hand is when you feel physically threatened.

Franglais, most companies require an assessment which will be paid for on completion of the first shift. Caused me a problem with GiST who demanded a two day assessment procedure 120 miles away from home and refused to pay until the first shift. In the end they broke down, I refused to work for them until they paid the assessment and milage.

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202

dieseldog999:
lets not make it too easy.
this was on the good part going past the old dunragit bridge,big wide road,so no contest,but it was well off the clock going down the hills past the vosa station which we incorrectly still class as castle kennedy…on principal i like to keep er lit at that point(so long as the big cars have been spotted and accounted for elsewhere…so…overspeeds■■?..pah :smiley:

In for a penny in for a pound,
Feeding her the ohms!!!

Glenluce was open near 24hrs past few days too as the VOSA were holed up in the usual Stranraer hotel,
Your game as a badger DD!!![emoji28] [emoji106] [emoji108]

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203

nsmith1180:
Franglais, most companies require an assessment which will be paid for on completion of the first shift.

Thanks for explaining that.

204

Franglais:

eagerbeaver:
Been limping over the last few weeks and today I did a shift for Culina, Port Salford. I actually did a shift for them on Saturday and some of the load went over and I was asked to return it to the depot.

Went back in yesterday and did 3 drops in the North East with no issues whatsoever. They asked me to come back in this morning (0700 start) which I did, 2 drops- Preston and Bolton. Set off for Preston and I was just approaching the drop (James Hall) when my personal phone rang, so I pulled into the services next door. It was my agency who said that Culina had rang them and noticed from the telematics that I had ’ speeded ’ on a number of occasions yesterday. As a result of a partially shot load on the Saturday and these ’ speeding ’ reports from yesterday’s telematics, they wanted me to do a ’ driving assessment ’ next week for them :unamused:

I asked the agency lad if it would be paid (not that I would demean myself by doing one anyway :grimacing: ), and he replied " No " :open_mouth:

So I explained that he should contact Culina and tell them that only slaves and prisoners should work for free. I then bought a paper, turned the wagon around, and drove it straight back down the motorway and parked it outside the security hut.

I handed the truck keys to the security lad and got in my car and came home for a nice cup of tea. So, what would you lot have done?

7 pages so far. Well, heres my take on it. The day I got that phone call I would have simply carried on with the job I was on. Why not? There is in this situation no threat of working without pay is there? There is no obligation to go and do an assessment if you dont want to, paid or unpaid its not going to affect what youve done, or are doing.

If you dont like the attitude of Culina, or anyone else, then dont do their assessment, dont work for them in the future, I get that, isnt that what agency is all about? But why walk off a job youve already started? That I dont get.

Cmon EB are you such a prima donna that a phone call asking you, (not obliging you) to do summat you dont fancy the following week, really upset you so much?? I never had you down as such a delicate flower, mate.

Would I have done an unpaid assessment for Culina? Well, Ive been in full time work for a long time, and find it interesting reading how agency work is changing and evolving. If I liked Culina and wanted to get lots of shifts for them, I probably would. Id do that to get a perm job, and doing multiple assessments seems to be expected if youre gonna be on agency. Working for agency has ups and downs, and thats one of the downs of agency isnt it? If I didnt much like them, I wouldnt. Excuse my ignorance, but I seem to have read that lots of companies want an assessment drive before approving an agency driver? Have I got that wrong? Does this mean, EB, youre not going to do ANY unpaid assessment drives? Aren`t you limiting where you can work if you follow that through?

So, would I have turned around and taken that truck back? No.
Would I do an unpaid assessment? Maybe.

Just to answer a couple of your points Monsieur :laughing:

Your initial instincts are correct, I am no delicate flower :wink: The agency I have been attending for didn’t request any initial assessment drives for any of their customers and I have done a number of shifts for Culina last year so had no problems with them and they had none with me.

As for ’ unpaid ', Beaver doesn’t do sweet FA for nowt, regardless of if it leads to other/better avenues or not. It’s the principle of the thing.

The bottom line is this; Culina have spat the dummy because of a partially shot load. The pointy shoe wearing agency bellends have not been paid and they are refusing (at this early stage) to pay me for one shift. The actual shift I had the load problem with, I have been already paid for :laughing:

I knew the sharp haircut crew were going to start being knobheads, I can sniff a bellend from 1000 feet (DD taught me well) and knew after the phone call regarding the driving assessment request that I wouldn’t be doing any more Culina shifts which is why I drove the truck straight back and went playing golf.

205

eagerbeaver:

Franglais:

eagerbeaver:
Been limping over the last few weeks and today I did a shift for Culina, Port Salford. I actually did a shift for them on Saturday and some of the load went over and I was asked to return it to the depot.

Went back in yesterday and did 3 drops in the North East with no issues whatsoever. They asked me to come back in this morning (0700 start) which I did, 2 drops- Preston and Bolton. Set off for Preston and I was just approaching the drop (James Hall) when my personal phone rang, so I pulled into the services next door. It was my agency who said that Culina had rang them and noticed from the telematics that I had ’ speeded ’ on a number of occasions yesterday. As a result of a partially shot load on the Saturday and these ’ speeding ’ reports from yesterday’s telematics, they wanted me to do a ’ driving assessment ’ next week for them :unamused:

I asked the agency lad if it would be paid (not that I would demean myself by doing one anyway :grimacing: ), and he replied " No " :open_mouth:

So I explained that he should contact Culina and tell them that only slaves and prisoners should work for free. I then bought a paper, turned the wagon around, and drove it straight back down the motorway and parked it outside the security hut.

I handed the truck keys to the security lad and got in my car and came home for a nice cup of tea. So, what would you lot have done?

7 pages so far. Well, heres my take on it. The day I got that phone call I would have simply carried on with the job I was on. Why not? There is in this situation no threat of working without pay is there? There is no obligation to go and do an assessment if you dont want to, paid or unpaid its not going to affect what youve done, or are doing.

If you dont like the attitude of Culina, or anyone else, then dont do their assessment, dont work for them in the future, I get that, isnt that what agency is all about? But why walk off a job youve already started? That I dont get.

Cmon EB are you such a prima donna that a phone call asking you, (not obliging you) to do summat you dont fancy the following week, really upset you so much?? I never had you down as such a delicate flower, mate.

Would I have done an unpaid assessment for Culina? Well, Ive been in full time work for a long time, and find it interesting reading how agency work is changing and evolving. If I liked Culina and wanted to get lots of shifts for them, I probably would. Id do that to get a perm job, and doing multiple assessments seems to be expected if youre gonna be on agency. Working for agency has ups and downs, and thats one of the downs of agency isnt it? If I didnt much like them, I wouldnt. Excuse my ignorance, but I seem to have read that lots of companies want an assessment drive before approving an agency driver? Have I got that wrong? Does this mean, EB, youre not going to do ANY unpaid assessment drives? Aren`t you limiting where you can work if you follow that through?

So, would I have turned around and taken that truck back? No.
Would I do an unpaid assessment? Maybe.

Just to answer a couple of your points Monsieur :laughing:

Your initial instincts are correct, I am no delicate flower :wink: The agency I have been attending for didn’t request any initial assessment drives for any of their customers and I have done a number of shifts for Culina last year so had no problems with them and they had none with me.

As for ’ unpaid ', Beaver doesn’t do sweet FA for nowt, regardless of if it leads to other/better avenues or not. It’s the principle of the thing.

The bottom line is this; Culina have spat the dummy because of a partially shot load. The pointy shoe wearing agency bellends have not been paid and they are refusing (at this early stage) to pay me for one shift. The actual shift I had the load problem with, I have been already paid for :laughing:

I knew the sharp haircut crew were going to start being knobheads, I can sniff a bellend from 1000 feet (DD taught me well) and knew after the phone call regarding the driving assessment request that I wouldn’t be doing any more Culina shifts which is why I drove the truck straight back and went playing golf.

Nah, didn`t think you were a wilting daisy!
I can see that the writing was on the wall regarding “a long term future, and a meaningful ongoing partnership commitment”* with them, but why not finish the shift you were on, then when they tried to make a date for an assessment just say “No”? Nothing was wrong on that shift was it? So no reason for them to withhold any monies.
Golf put off for a day, but hey-ho!

*insert your own version of corporate speak here

206

As apparently one of the bendover boys I respect your decision to be who you are happy to be.

Earlier this year I left a job (self employed) because of a take over. The new company were not for me. No fuss, I left. I normally find other work within a few days. This time I didn’t. So I signed up with a local agency. I went in and had a word. They asked my experience, I asked their terms. The money wasn’t what I wanted but it was probably the better around here. Because I didn’t like the money I truthfully told them that due to that fact they would be my last choice if other people wanted my services.

I also said that I won’t be treated by their clients like a ■■■■. If they placed me somewhere where the practices are either dangerous or exploitive I would finish shift but tell them not to book any more shifts with that client. This was a mutual honest exchange. I said if this wasn’t suitable then obviously I won’t expect any work. I was working next day for them.

After a few weeks they asked me if I would do a tramping job as they were desperate. Tramping not for me nowadays but I said is it more money? Slightly they said. How much night money do you pay? £20. Nope I said it’s an insult. £25 is bad enough £20 is taking the urine. I’ll get back to you they say. £22.50 any good? Nope it’s the principle. So they give in on £25. Then I ask where job is. About an hour away they say. Who pays travelling? That’s down to you I’m afraid. No thanks then.

Now they ring me at least three times a week for work but they know what I will do and how much I will do it for. No need for paddies or bad feeling. I have decided to do the beet season and have the odd day spare. I can call them and get work. They know where to place me.

Sorry for the ramble but the moral is set your ground rules, work with people and don’t sell out for nothing. It’s a darn sight easier than rows and law courts.

Perhaps I’m just a dinosaur!

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207

P Stoff:
As apparently one of the bendover boys I respect your decision to be who you are happy to be.

Earlier this year I left a job (self employed) because of a take over. The new company were not for me. No fuss, I left. I normally find other work within a few days. This time I didn’t. So I signed up with a local agency. I went in and had a word. They asked my experience, I asked their terms. The money wasn’t what I wanted but it was probably the better around here. Because I didn’t like the money I truthfully told them that due to that fact they would be my last choice if other people wanted my services.

I also said that I won’t be treated by their clients like a ■■■■. If they placed me somewhere where the practices are either dangerous or exploitive I would finish shift but tell them not to book any more shifts with that client. This was a mutual honest exchange. I said if this wasn’t suitable then obviously I won’t expect any work. I was working next day for them.

After a few weeks they asked me if I would do a tramping job as they were desperate. Tramping not for me nowadays but I said is it more money? Slightly they said. How much night money do you pay? £20. Nope I said it’s an insult. £25 is bad enough £20 is taking the urine. I’ll get back to you they say. £22.50 any good? Nope it’s the principle. So they give in on £25. Then I ask where job is. About an hour away they say. Who pays travelling? That’s down to you I’m afraid. No thanks then.

Now they ring me at least three times a week for work but they know what I will do and how much I will do it for. No need for paddies or bad feeling. I have decided to do the beet season and have the odd day spare. I can call them and get work. They know where to place me.

Sorry for the ramble but the moral is set your ground rules, work with people and don’t sell out for nothing. It’s a darn sight easier than rows and law courts.

Perhaps I’m just a dinosaur!

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Nowt wrong with any of that, you set terms, they failed to meet them so you didn’t enter into an agreement. Mature conduct.

EB agreed to the terms, heard about a future change to the terms which he didn’t like, so broke the standing agreement and walked away. Spitting of dummy.

208

simcor:

Wiretwister:
Speed limits - GOV.UK

For speed alone why would a copper stop a HGV doing less than the posted, current, speed limit?

He can stop you for any reason he deems fit!

At the very least he can prosecute you for “not being in control of the vehicle” or whatever wording it is they use nowadays. By exceeding the speed limiter he may deem you are not in proper control of the vehicle.

I also said whether under or over the legal limit, not just the under that you chose to pick up on.

“He can stop you for any reason he see’ s fit”

Wrong!!!

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209

eagerbeaver:
The question raised now is this one…

Who would go to court (if needed) to get 14 hours pay, and who would soil themselves, bottle it and not bother?

#worms

That’s what my £3.30wk Union subs are for EB!!![emoji6]

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210

Would,nt trust any union anymore, I was firm supporter of unions, a local rep and from a family of union supporters, did a lot of good at local level for folk, however after a experience where I needed area support, they advised actions of new contracts for £50, I stuck it out, took advice elsewhere went to the very last day and came out with 20k+, I may disagree with beaver on a lot of things but he does right by doing it alone and fighting for what he believes he is owed…

Big Truck:

eagerbeaver:
The question raised now is this one…

Who would go to court (if needed) to get 14 hours pay, and who would soil themselves, bottle it and not bother?

#worms

That’s what my £3.30wk Union subs are for EB!!![emoji6]

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211

Big Truck:

simcor:

Wiretwister:
Speed limits - GOV.UK

For speed alone why would a copper stop a HGV doing less than the posted, current, speed limit?

He can stop you for any reason he deems fit!

At the very least he can prosecute you for “not being in control of the vehicle” or whatever wording it is they use nowadays. By exceeding the speed limiter he may deem you are not in proper control of the vehicle.

I also said whether under or over the legal limit, not just the under that you chose to pick up on.

“He can stop you for any reason he see’ s fit”

Wrong!!!

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A copper DOES need a reason to stop a vehicle. However, that reason can be a BELIEF that an offence has been committed.

212

dle1uk:
Would,nt trust any union anymore, I was firm supporter of unions, a local rep and from a family of union supporters, did a lot of good at local level for folk, however after a experience where I needed area support, they advised actions of new contracts for £50, I stuck it out, took advice elsewhere went to the very last day and came out with 20k+, I may disagree with beaver on a lot of things but he does right by doing it alone and fighting for what he believes he is owed…

I see your point mate, but it’s a bit like saying ‘‘Not going in pubs anymore, went to one today and my beer was flat’’ …they aint all the same.
I aint a staunch union supporter by any means, but I agree with the basic concept.
I know Unions in many examples have lost their way, but the concept is still sound,.and you can sure as hell bet that most of the crap.we have to put up with today (which is sadly taken for granted) would not be prevalent.
A bit like the nuclear detertent, hostile nations know it’s there so they leave us alone…a poor analogy I know but you get my point. :smiley:
Sadly today, on the whole, the only guys that enjoy decent conditions are those who individually stick up for themselves, think what we could achieve if we were all one voice.
I aint talking ott militancy for the sake of it either, that is totally wrong and the reason many are anti union as the 70s was. I’m talking fairness and the eradication of ■■■■ taking by companies (and agencies) towards their drivers.

213

Prob that I see with unions is that are good at a local level, we negotiated pay rises, terms conditions ect, supported staff on disciplinary, better working conditions ect ect , however the few times we had to get assistance from the main players they were less then useless, it was the typical meetings with area reps stinking of booze and simply not interested unless it was something they could involve media in… and I’ve seen so many shop stewards give up the union to be promoted into management. That it now seems the way to get a better a job… Do we need a union? Yes but one that pulls in one direction and that will never happen.

214

I just think it’s a travesty (especially for us in this exploitative industry) that many of the rights and conditions that were fought tooth and nail for under great duress by our Grandfathers, have just been handed back on a plate by the spineless and apathetic contingents.
Just look at all the ■■■■ we have now, …zero hour contracts, working through holidays, single time rates right through, no extra pay for weekend work, ■■■■ in cab cameras, drivers paying for accident damage, and all the rest of the crap that has become commonplace in this job. :smiling_imp:
There is no way in hell this would have happened with a sensible and strong union among drivers.

215

robroy:
I just think it’s a travesty (especially for us in this exploitative industry) that many of the rights and conditions that were fought tooth and nail for under great duress by our Grandfathers, have just been handed back on a plate by the spineless and apathetic contingents.
Just look at all the [zb] we have now, …zero hour contracts, working through holidays, single time rates right through, no extra pay for weekend work, [zb] in cab cameras, drivers paying for accident damage, and all the rest of the crap that has become commonplace in this job. :smiling_imp:
There is no way in hell this would have happened with a sensible and strong union among drivers.

The NHS has a sensible and strong union, and they have a worse deal than drivers to be honest. No minimum rest period, no maximum hours limit, no statutory rest periods.

Doesn’t matter though they aren’t doing anything important… :unamused:

216

Darkside:

robroy:
I just think it’s a travesty (especially for us in this exploitative industry) that many of the rights and conditions that were fought tooth and nail for under great duress by our Grandfathers, have just been handed back on a plate by the spineless and apathetic contingents.
Just look at all the [zb] we have now, …zero hour contracts, working through holidays, single time rates right through, no extra pay for weekend work, [zb] in cab cameras, drivers paying for accident damage, and all the rest of the crap that has become commonplace in this job. :smiling_imp:
There is no way in hell this would have happened with a sensible and strong union among drivers.

The NHS has a sensible and strong union, and they have a worse deal than drivers to be honest. No minimum rest period, no maximum hours limit, no statutory rest periods.

Doesn’t matter though they aren’t doing anything important… :unamused:

Yeh ok, on the other hand the antihesis of that is the Rail Union.
Whether you agree with their methods or not, in terms of the disruption they may or may not cause, they represent their members well. :bulb:

217

robroy:
Yeh ok, on the other hand the antihesis of that is the Rail Union.
Whether you agree with their methods or not, in terms of the disruption they may or may not cause, they represent their members well. :bulb:

No the don’t. Half the country hate the rail unions and ain’t too fond of the train drivers either for all that fuss over single operator trains last year. It was a textbook case of a group taking a stand over something that didn’t matter, hiding it under the guise of Health and Safety and bringing the South of England into chaos. All that resulted is that train drivers got a rep as moaners.

Same with the junior doctors. What did they achieve apart from to take a public that was largely supportive of their cause and turn a great number against them by going on strike, closing services and putting lives at risk, just so that the contract they were unhappy about could be imposed. They were never going to win, and they knew it because the government always had the power to say, ‘we are doing it weather you like it or not.’

218

Unions are in principle a brilliant idea. Sadly as with anything involving power and money it gets corrupted. The people at the top lose their roots. It’s a bit like communism. Everyone is equal except some are more equal than others. Instead of working with employers to solve problems, it became a case of who has the bigger balls. No one wins. I remember watching a program about Arthur Scargills life. How expensive the carpets were

The French have balls and the right idea. If they don’t like something the government KNOW they will disrupt the country.

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219

nsmith1180:

robroy:
Yeh ok, on the other hand the antihesis of that is the Rail Union.
Whether you agree with their methods or not, in terms of the disruption they may or may not cause, they represent their members well. :bulb:

No the don’t. Half the country hate the rail unions and ain’t too fond of the train drivers either for all that fuss over single operator trains last year. It was a textbook case of a group taking a stand over something that didn’t matter, hiding it under the guise of Health and Safety and bringing the South of England into chaos. All that resulted is that train drivers got a rep as moaners.

Ok, …so you didn’t notice the bit that said …quote;
"WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEIR METHODS OR NOT’’ then. :neutral_face:

Yeh, they made themselves and their members unpopular as you say, but by the same token.(.as I said) they achieve excellent t.s and c.s for the people they represent.

Now I am not saying I personally agree or disagree with some of said methods, but the evidence is there, a Union (or union) can negotiate and achieve better things for a workforce of people.

An industry like ours has a lot of potential bargaining power, ok disruption is unfortunately a pawn in the game, but otherwise who really gives a flying one other than those involved in this job about all the bs I listed, and more, of the things that we have to put up with in this industry? :bulb:

You have made your position crystal clearl on this site that you are now an owner driver, so obviously you are going to have a different pov to many of us, and ok, I can empathise with that being an ex. o/d myself.

…btw, Please don’t come back with the ‘‘If you don’t like how things are, find something else’’ chestnut, just to stifle the argument.

220

Morning Rob. I think you are wasting your time with some on here mate, they simply do not have the stomach for it.

Disruption works. Of course try diplomatic means first, but make your opponent aware that if it comes to it, you are more than happy to pull the trigger when required :sunglasses: