limeyphil:
the ecconomy is [zb]ed because of legislation.
Nope Phil it’s [zb]ed Because of idiots who have tried to undercut everyone else to make a fast buck, resulting in poor maintainance, resulting in tired drivers behind the wheel, resulting in drivers and companies risking life and limbs of other road users, resulting in the Government and the European Parliament having to introduce legislations to put a stop to the dangerous practices.
Remember, legislation is only introduced to put a stop to something, had all drivers driven sensibly back in the 60’s there would of been no need to introduce speed limits to conserve fuel, had drivers not been caught behind the wheel tired, the drivers hours would never have been introduced.
At the end of the Day the Transport Industry is in the Mess it’s in because of the Transport Companies attitude and the Drivers Couldn’t give a toss attitude.
limeyphil:
but you lot who think having a cpc qualifies you to run a business are living in cloud cuckoo land.
So Basically you would let anyone install a Gas Central Heating Sytem into your home even if they are not Qualified?
You’d also be prepared to let your kids go out and about in a car driven by someone with no licence?
You’d happily let someone rewire your house even though they cant change a plug?
Do you get the picture Phil?
The CPC is basically a certificate which proves you have “Above” basic knowledge in that field, in the same way that a gas fitter is Corgi Registered, in the same way a Driving Licence confirms you have met the minimum requirements, and in the same way a HNC certificate proves an Electrician is qualified. 
no davey i wouldn’t.
but we as drivers, like i’ve already said are qualified to run a truck without any further training. well i could anyway.
if you owned a shop and needed a manager, you would employ him or her from his or her track record.
but many transport managers are employed because they have a cpc, not because they are good at what they do.
by comments made by some people on here, they are putting themselves down by stating that they can’t run a single truck and a small business without further qualifications.
Just to stir things up a bit more: why don’t you need a “professionally competent person” to run on a restricted licence?
99% of the operation is the same; just not getting paid to run the truck.
To carry on a bit more, PCV operators can get restricted O licence with no “professionally competent person” provided they run no more than 2x16 seaters and the operation isn’t their main source of income. Designed with the pub landlord in mind who wants to run the darts team about. Yet they can run international. How much sense does that make. But a “proper” coach operator running a 16 seater would have an International O licence on his minibus to make it legal. Beggars belief 
I Totally agree with you Peter, however, there is a big difference between a 16 seater and a 52 - 74 seater
If Phil has his CPC then I Would expect him to understand why a CPC holder is required, it basically gives an assurance that the Operater knows whats what when it comes to the General Haulage.
In a Way restricted licence is worthless as it’s basically for someone delivering their own goods so they would be expected to ensure the costs of delivering is covered in the price of the goods along with having to maintain their vehicles etc.
they would be expected to ensure the costs of delivering is covered in the price of the goods along with having to maintain their vehicles etc.
Costing and marketing aside, there’s not a lot of difference in the day to day running of “own account” and “hire and reward”. I’m referring to driver’s hours, tachos, maintainence, employment legislation, vehicle specification, finance to name just a few similarities.
there is a big difference between a 16 seater and a 52 - 74 seater
You miss my point. A restricted PCV licence holder (the majority of whom run illegally as it is their primary source of income) can run international, whereas a standard licence holder would have to hold the international O licence. So he would either have to employ and old git like me who got it on grandfather rights or would have to be looking at passing 4 exams. All this to send a minibus abroad. Probably haven’t worded this too well (been a long week). Just thought it was an interesting bit of nonsense in the rules
A company I once worked for - it went into administration - during its last few months of life appointed a person to the role of TM who did not even have a car license, let alone a HGV! This was a person who thought that an 18 tonner could take a payload of 18 tonnes and allocated loads accordingly 
limeyphil:
maybe i should have given the subject title as “why do we need cpc holders?”
you could have a very good transport manager without a cpc. you could have a terrible transport manager with a cpc.
so my conclusion up to now is.“we don’t need national and international cpc holders, just good managers”.
but you lot who think having a cpc qualifies you to run a business are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I do not have a CPC
Nor O Levels, A Levels (think I passed the 11+ way back when), just got a few Army qualifications for various things and have never even passed a driving test in my life.
Result more than 20 years carreering around Europe with only 2 very minor accidents to my name.
I know have the say over the best part of a fleet of 100 motors in fact everyting that comes to Spain is mine, this includes more than 20 Spanish based drivers.
I spent 13 years driving for this company and had left before they phoned me up asking if I would be interested in doing the job after several years of so called professionals screwing it up despite the wad of qualifications that they carried around with them.
Taken out of a truck put in an office and told to get on with it 
.
Yes there have been minor disasters but that was only to be expected, but as mentioned before turn over and profit increased, relations with customers improved because 1. they knew me and 2 I speak their language, if a Vovo breaks down in Spain we dont phone DAF IDS I have negotiated a far cheaper deal with the Volvo garage near Beasain which also results in far faster eaction times.
So basically qualifications mean nothing they only mean that you can sit in a classroom and learn
Just imagine that, lets say you didn’t have a CPC, you might have been driving for a very long time in fact and know quite alot about running a truck, probably a fleet.
Now imagine that VOSA have stopped one of your vehicles, the speed limiter isn’t working, 3 tyres are bald, the driver has incomplete records and the vehicle is running 3 tonnes overweight. Thats before they have done a full inspection of the vehicle.
None of this would necessarily be your fault but how big do you think the book would be that gets thrown at you?
Sure even somebody with a CPC is going to get a kicking in court, but surely somebody with no CPC is going to get slaughtered?
Just my opinion
mikeyb:
Just imagine that, lets say you didn’t have a CPC, you might have been driving for a very long time in fact and know quite alot about running a truck, probably a fleet.
Now imagine that VOSA have stopped one of your vehicles, the speed limiter isn’t working, 3 tyres are bald, the driver has incomplete records and the vehicle is running 3 tonnes overweight. Thats before they have done a full inspection of the vehicle.
None of this would necessarily be your fault but how big do you think the book would be that gets thrown at you?
Sure even somebody with a CPC is going to get a kicking in court, but surely somebody with no CPC is going to get slaughtered?
Just my opinion
VOSA would not get the chance to stop one of mine I think the last one that went to the UK was about 5 years ago
in any crime, large scale or small. not knowing that what you did is an offence, is no defence.
so why should it be so different for us? does an individual need to pass an exam to know the hours regs, weight regs, etc?
in most companies the transport manager/cpc holder is pushing the drivers to do as much as possible.
the driver is usually the one who spends most of his time repeating himself to the boss that 1 inch on the map does not make 15 minutes in london.
an experienced driver should be seen as someone capable of running his own truck without any requirement for an additional cpc holder, or to take any further training.
Your Missing the Point Completely Phil and if you do hold your CPC then you’ll be well aware of whats involved, It’s Legal to have a Non CPC Holder as Transport manager, but Somebody has to take overall Responsibilty for the Trucks and named on the O Licence as the CPC Holder.
The way your talking you’d be happy for ANYONE with £30,000 to spare to start their own haulage company with very little knowledge of the Business side, and I’m on about all the stuff you learned when you sat your CPC if you really do have one 
Driving Trucks is the Easy part, complying with Laws and finance is completely different.
There’s one easy way to forestall any driver who gets it into his head that he can do the boss’s job; tell him OK, he’s the boss for the day but the TM’s gonna be driving his truck!
Personally I think the only people who should be allowed to hold a cpc are active LGV drivers i.e have up to date road knowledge and understand what drivers face and not some spotty face little twerp who thinks that google maps can plan routes.
Sup473:
Personally I think the only people who should be allowed to hold a cpc are active LGV drivers i.e have up to date road knowledge and understand what drivers face and not some spotty face little twerp who thinks that google maps can plan routes.
I think you’re confusing transport managers with traffic planners there.
Whilst I understand where you’re coming from, ex-drivers can be a mixed blessing in the office. Great when it comes to the planning side, but sometimes the poacher can turn gamekeeper and bang goes all those nice little dodges you had!
gnasty gnome:
Whilst I understand where you’re coming from, ex-drivers can be a mixed blessing in the office. Great when it comes to the planning side, but sometimes the poacher can turn gamekeeper and bang goes all those nice little dodges you had!
Exactly quite a few minor scams that were costing the company money have since come to a very abrupt end 
Davey Driver:
Your Missing the Point Completely Phil and if you do hold your CPC then you’ll be well aware of whats involved, It’s Legal to have a Non CPC Holder as Transport manager, but Somebody has to take overall Responsibilty for the Trucks and named on the O Licence as the CPC Holder.
The way your talking you’d be happy for ANYONE with £30,000 to spare to start their own haulage company with very little knowledge of the Business side, and I’m on about all the stuff you learned when you sat your CPC if you really do have one Driving Trucks is the Easy part, complying with Laws and finance is completely different.
i don’t think anyone would chuck £30000 into any new venture without doing their homework.
there are plenty of haulage firms that are run by someone with grandfather rights without any problems.
no one in their right mind would pass their hgv at 21, then buy a truck and try to run it.
i know someone who passed his cpc at the age of 17 or 18. does he sound like the person ideally suited to run a truck? or someone with 10 years or more actual driving experience?
complying with the laws is very much part of driving a truck. the finance is for the accountant to sort out, if you need one.
limeyphil:
before obtaining an o’licence you need to appoint a transport manager.
it could be yourself or an employee.
he or she is just a name on a piece of paper who happens to have past a couple of exams, and therefore is regarded to be of good repute.
does this mean that me or you are of bad repute?
you can do your cpc national and international in prison FFS.
surely an individuals repute should be proven on how he or she runs their business, not about a useless bit of paper.
i think you should simply be allowed an o’licence, then it can be taken off you if you break the rules, simple really.
as long as you can afford to run your truck and have a parking area which has been passed by your local council, then that should be it.
what do you think?
I think you’re 100% spot on. It works as you say with, for example taxi licensing. If you have a HGV licence then you should be able to buy one(a truck) and go work it.