Why do they expect us to be crap at our job

[liberty_guy]

As regards reversing errors and other mishaps, I would point out that it was UK truckers knocking bollards over, slamming into roller shutter doors, damaging docks, knocking walls over and scraping cars long before the East Europeans came over here.

With modern technology, it would be simple to install reversing cameras onto every HGV outfit as well as cameras that look down the nearside at low level, thus virtually eliminating the so called ‘blind side’. I have driven such equipped vehicles and yep they do make a difference, particularly where there are pedestrians walking about. There are huge blind spots on most trucks and anything that helps the driver is a bonus, but as usual the UK truck industry has its head up its bottom.

No embarrassment with taking a shunt or two if you are unsure of clearances, as better than potentially trashing things around you. Am sure the goods in guys would rather you take a couple of minutes extra, than take a bay out of action.

[mike68]

LIBERTY_GUY:
As regards reversing errors and other mishaps, I would point out that it was UK truckers knocking bollards over, slamming into roller shutter doors, damaging docks, knocking walls over and scraping cars long before the East Europeans came over here.

With modern technology, it would be simple to install reversing cameras onto every HGV outfit as well as cameras that look down the nearside at low level, thus virtually eliminating the so called ‘blind side’. I have driven such equipped vehicles and yep they do make a difference, particularly where there are pedestrians walking about. There are huge blind spots on most trucks and anything that helps the driver is a bonus, but as usual the UK truck industry has its head up its bottom.

No embarrassment with taking a shunt or two if you are unsure of clearances, as better than potentially trashing things around you. Am sure the goods in guys would rather you take a couple of minutes extra, than take a bay out of action.

We have loads of driver aids to prevent damage, proximity sensors on the nearside of the vehicle to protect the step, reversing sensors on the trailers forward facing cameras, detailed risk assesments when delivering and endless training and it has not made one bit of difference, if anything the bill for damage has gone up.

.

[conor]

mike68:
It has bugger all to do with nationality, modern drivers are crap end of.

So are a lot of old timers. Most I’ve ended up sat in the passenger seat with still think you rev the nuts up to the redline in every gear, many have a poor understanding of the tacho regs and they’re absolutely shafted when they’re required to do anything involving a computer.

They were probably quite good drivers 20 years ago but everything moved on except them because 20 years ago they were operating at the absolute max of their mental ability. Modern drivers aren’t crap just because they don’t know how to use something they’ll never ever come across in their lifetime because those kind of vehicles are now all in scrap yards and other stuff has moved on.

[punchy_dan]

mike68:
It has bugger all to do with nationality, modern drivers are crap end of.

The thing drives itself they even tell you when you drift out of you’re lane, the loading and off loading is usually done for you and the general skill set required is just above zero our yard is huge and lit like wembley and drivers shunt back and fore to get on a bay fitted with guides, pitiful.

I get phone calls all the time about drivers taking 20 minutes to get on a bay, or calling up when they have become stuck or lost, and dozens of bloody idiotic questions to numerous to mention.

Rescued off tail lifts by the fire brigade, falling asleep with the headlights on following prat navs down farm tracks coming back with half the truck missing unbelievable, we all get tarred with the same brush, from my own experience around 80% are useless and I would not trust them to steer a sweeping brush.

Please state the cut off date for modern drivers thanks .

[mike68]

Punchy Dan:

mike68:
It has bugger all to do with nationality, modern drivers are crap end of.

The thing drives itself they even tell you when you drift out of you’re lane, the loading and off loading is usually done for you and the general skill set required is just above zero our yard is huge and lit like wembley and drivers shunt back and fore to get on a bay fitted with guides, pitiful.

I get phone calls all the time about drivers taking 20 minutes to get on a bay, or calling up when they have become stuck or lost, and dozens of bloody idiotic questions to numerous to mention.

Rescued off tail lifts by the fire brigade, falling asleep with the headlights on following prat navs down farm tracks coming back with half the truck missing unbelievable, we all get tarred with the same brush, from my own experience around 80% are useless and I would not trust them to steer a sweeping brush.

Please state the cut off date for modern drivers thanks .

Their is no date or particular age group or ethnicity, the steady creep of health and safety and the complete lack of the ability to think for ones self, the dumbing down of the job to such a level that anyone can do it, reflected in the vehicles we are not even trusted to change gear, if the manufactures think we are idiots the employers do also.

[tris]

mike68:

Punchy Dan:

mike68:
It has bugger all to do with nationality, modern drivers are crap end of.

The thing drives itself they even tell you when you drift out of you’re lane, the loading and off loading is usually done for you and the general skill set required is just above zero our yard is huge and lit like wembley and drivers shunt back and fore to get on a bay fitted with guides, pitiful.

I get phone calls all the time about drivers taking 20 minutes to get on a bay, or calling up when they have become stuck or lost, and dozens of bloody idiotic questions to numerous to mention.

Rescued off tail lifts by the fire brigade, falling asleep with the headlights on following prat navs down farm tracks coming back with half the truck missing unbelievable, we all get tarred with the same brush, from my own experience around 80% are useless and I would not trust them to steer a sweeping brush.

Please state the cut off date for modern drivers thanks .

Their is no date or particular age group or ethnicity, the steady creep of health and safety and the complete lack of the ability to think for ones self, the dumbing down of the job to such a level that anyone can do it, reflected in the vehicles we are not even trusted to change gear, if the manufactures think we are idiots the employers do also.

If you pay peanuts you’re inevitably going to get chimps. If there has been decline in standards it’s hardly surprising because being an HGV driver is not a career path I’d recommend to any intelligent nipper. The money is absolute rubbish considering the responsibility.

[robroy]

mike68:
It has bugger all to do with nationality, modern drivers are crap end of.

The thing drives itself they even tell you when you drift out of you’re lane, the loading and off loading is usually done for you and the general skill set required is just above zero our yard is huge and lit like wembley and drivers shunt back and fore to get on a bay fitted with guides, pitiful.

I get phone calls all the time about drivers taking 20 minutes to get on a bay, or calling up when they have become stuck or lost, and dozens of bloody idiotic questions to numerous to mention.

Rescued off tail lifts by the fire brigade, falling asleep with the headlights on following prat navs down farm tracks coming back with half the truck missing unbelievable, we all get tarred with the same brush, from my own experience around 80% are useless and I would not trust them to steer a sweeping brush.

I agree with a lot of that but not all.
Come on mate, you can’t say ALL modern drivers are crap, I know many new drivers that are good lads, and very competent at their jobs.
I agree with the lack of skill sets needed in comparison to how it was, and we all know, and have witnessed the ■■■■ idiots.
The point is, if you are a ■■■■ idiot you are a ■■■■ idiot …end of, no matter what you drive, the difference is that today those characters are getting through the net where as once over they wouldn’t have, because of the loss of said required skill sets.

However a lot of todays lads would have also been good enough then to have made drivers at that time also, it aint their faults that the level of criteria has been dumbed down over the years.

As an employer do you not think that if you do get a nucleus of good drivers among the ■■■■ whits, that it would pay you in the long run to give them a financial incentive to remain as your employers.
(I’m not assuming or insinuating that you are a crap payer btw)

I share your views that we all get tarred with same brush, so there probably lies the answer to my question in my o/p
Job sorted

[muckles]

Janos:
I am struggling to think of another profession where a member of the public tells them how to perform their job

I think you’ll find plenty of doctors, nurses, teachers and many other professions who come into contact with members of the general public get told regularly how they should be doing their job or ignore advice even if it’s for their own safety.

There are so many armchair experts and plenty of ways of them sharing their expertise, ever read Carryfasts posts, he’s an expert on everything from international long distance truck driving, (though never actually done it himself ) through to aviation to history and politics.

[simon]

Friday, every reverse I did went in just about spot on. Some were easy, some were a bit of a [zb] to get right in one.
Thursday however was one of those days. First reverse was a simple 90 degree reverse into a big wide open loading spot.
After 3 shunts, trying to get it more or less straight, more or less in the middle, I gave up n abandoned it where it was before I hit something

[robroy]

muckles:
There are so many armchair experts and plenty of ways of them sharing their expertise, ever read Carryfasts posts, he’s an expert on everything from international long distance truck driving, (though never actually done it himself ) through to aviation to history and politics.

Yeh but his latest was firearms velocity, he was trying to teach his expertise on here this week to an ex Army weapons instructor …I kid you not.

[muckles]

robroy:

muckles:
There are so many armchair experts and plenty of ways of them sharing their expertise, ever read Carryfasts posts, he’s an expert on everything from international long distance truck driving, (though never actually done it himself ) through to aviation to history and politics.

Yeh but his latest was firearms velocity, he was trying to teach his expertise on here this week to an ex Army weapons instructor …I kid you not.

Why does this not surprise me, I think he either lives in a bunker with tin foil on his head or a home for the terminally deluded.

[truckyboy]

I have read every post over 2 pages, some are very good posts, others are absolute crap… I am an old modern driver, i have over 50 years under my belt of driving, almost every type of vehicle and trailer out there, i drive with great confidence cos i can, that i dont need any advice ( yes that sounds big headed ) but i am such a good driver, in any situation, can get into any area, on any bay, in any yard, some are tougher than others, and i do resent advice, sorry i cant help its just me, ive driven everywhere mentioned on F/B on T/Net, in minus 25 - 30, and up to 100 degrees heat, ive driven Left hookers, and that was the only thing that fazed me…at the beginning…and i did make mistakes…ive got a very clean licence, ive never made a claim or had a claim made against me, ive been an owner driver, and a transport manager, so i know and understand both sides of the fence, in fact i know everything in need to know about transport, in fact i have probably forgotten more, than most know…and i am very proud of what i have achieved, and my knowledge…and guess what !./.at aged 70 in a couple of months, i still drive the big rigs, across europe to Bulgaria, been offered farther afield if i want it, and i am not afraid to go anywhere…well i got the t shirt and sand in my shoes already…so i dont need a yard person…a FLT…or whoever to tell me i need help…i am polite however…i do say please and thank you, and even a sorry if needed ( never if i believe i am right ) but like ROBROY…he asked a question about why yard staff tell him how to do his job…my reason is as above, he has already given his.
The poster who wondered why uk drivers fail their test…there are many reasons…nerves…not enough training ( ie, schools putting a driver up for test before he is ready ) you should be asking why employers do not take newly passed drivers…after completing a program to legally licence a driver, and after paying out hundreds of pounds…I never had to take a test for driving trucks, and most of us oldies are self taught.you might ask why transport companies do not provide after test training…what i can tell the poster is this ( and i know the nationality of the poster ) Prior the invasion of the eastern bloc, and after it was a well known fact that if you were in Poland, and had a car licence, you could take a driving test in a farm tractor with a trailer behind, and if you passed ( and probably after a bribe ) you would gain a class 1 licence, which enabled you to drive artics in the uk …which they did, with many accidents, incidents, every motorway in the uk was literally littered with wreckage made by these incompetent drivers who had been set free to cause carnage, to our citizens, because their rules were not in force the same as ours, and they were seeking higher wages than their homelands, and quite honestly couldnt give a Hoot for anyones safety so long as they were allowed to drive, even though they had not set foot inside a big truck ever, let alone a uk big truck with right hand drive…that was another issue…i know these facts because i worked for a company who employed these idiots…and even today our licencing people and VOSA did absolutely nothing, i knew Turners employed them too at great cost, with brand new units being written off before they had even left their depot, the Irish tried them out to , and lithuanians too, and they caused so much damage, the irish were told they would not be insured for these types of drivers and were forced not to employ them…so i hope this answers some of your questions Andrew. And you too mike, who said, it has nothing to do with foreign drivers. Sorry to blame the eastern Bloc drivers, but back in the day the Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Polish were all brilliant international drivers, they had to be under the Commie regime, they had tom learn mechanics for 2 years before being allowed in a truck…thee system was better then…today the youngsters have it so easy, but most cannot drive forwards let alone reverse…we all see them…maybe some are learners, the foreigners are worse, even when someone is helping them…it seems most do not even have the basic knowledge of driving so who licenced these ■■■■■■■■■■■ just before i sign off…have a look on the motorways as you go about your business…just have a glance at the registration of the vehicle involved in that incident…report back here at the end of the week…maybe start a new post.

[colin_scottish]

truckyboy:
I have read every post over 2 pages, some are very good posts, others are absolute crap… I am an old modern driver, i have over 50 years under my belt of driving, almost every type of vehicle and trailer out there, i drive with great confidence cos i can, that i dont need any advice ( yes that sounds big headed ) but i am such a good driver, in any situation, can get into any area, on any bay, in any yard, some are tougher than others, and i do resent advice, sorry i cant help its just me, ive driven everywhere mentioned on F/B on T/Net, in minus 25 - 30, and up to 100 degrees heat, ive driven Left hookers, and that was the only thing that fazed me…at the beginning…and i did make mistakes…ive got a very clean licence, ive never made a claim or had a claim made against me, ive been an owner driver, and a transport manager, so i know and understand both sides of the fence, in fact i know everything in need to know about transport, in fact i have probably forgotten more, than most know…and i am very proud of what i have achieved, and my knowledge…and guess what !./.at aged 70 in a couple of months, i still drive the big rigs, across europe to Bulgaria, been offered farther afield if i want it, and i am not afraid to go anywhere…well i got the t shirt and sand in my shoes already…so i dont need a yard person…a FLT…or whoever to tell me i need help…i am polite however…i do say please and thank you, and even a sorry if needed ( never if i believe i am right ) but like ROBROY…he asked a question about why yard staff tell him how to do his job…my reason is as above, he has already given his.
The poster who wondered why uk drivers fail their test…there are many reasons…nerves…not enough training ( ie, schools putting a driver up for test before he is ready ) you should be asking why employers do not take newly passed drivers…after completing a program to legally licence a driver, and after paying out hundreds of pounds…I never had to take a test for driving trucks, and most of us oldies are self taught.you might ask why transport companies do not provide after test training…what i can tell the poster is this ( and i know the nationality of the poster ) Prior the invasion of the eastern bloc, and after it was a well known fact that if you were in Poland, and had a car licence, you could take a driving test in a farm tractor with a trailer behind, and if you passed ( and probably after a bribe ) you would gain a class 1 licence, which enabled you to drive artics in the uk …which they did, with many accidents, incidents, every motorway in the uk was literally littered with wreckage made by these incompetent drivers who had been set free to cause carnage, to our citizens, because their rules were not in force the same as ours, and they were seeking higher wages than their homelands, and quite honestly couldnt give a Hoot for anyones safety so long as they were allowed to drive, even though they had not set foot inside a big truck ever, let alone a uk big truck with right hand drive…that was another issue…i know these facts because i worked for a company who employed these idiots…and even today our licencing people and VOSA did absolutely nothing, i knew Turners employed them too at great cost, with brand new units being written off before they had even left their depot, the Irish tried them out to , and lithuanians too, and they caused so much damage, the irish were told they would not be insured for these types of drivers and were forced not to employ them…so i hope this answers some of your questions Andrew. And you too mike, who said, it has nothing to do with foreign drivers. Sorry to blame the eastern Bloc drivers, but back in the day the Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Polish were all brilliant international drivers, they had to be under the Commie regime, they had tom learn mechanics for 2 years before being allowed in a truck…thee system was better then…today the youngsters have it so easy, but most cannot drive forwards let alone reverse…we all see them…maybe some are learners, the foreigners are worse, even when someone is helping them…it seems most do not even have the basic knowledge of driving so who licenced these [zb]…and just before i sign off…have a look on the motorways as you go about your business…just have a glance at the registration of the vehicle involved in that incident…report back here at the end of the week…maybe start a new post.

Maybe use paragraphs be easier to read.

[raymundo]

While not in any sense criticising your post or your extensive knowledge but… ’ I never had to take a test for driving trucks, and most of us oldies are self taught.’

Cant he EE driver say exactly the same thing ?

[juddian]

mike68:

Punchy Dan:

mike68:
It has bugger all to do with nationality, modern drivers are crap end of.

The thing drives itself they even tell you when you drift out of you’re lane, the loading and off loading is usually done for you and the general skill set required is just above zero our yard is huge and lit like wembley and drivers shunt back and fore to get on a bay fitted with guides, pitiful.

I get phone calls all the time about drivers taking 20 minutes to get on a bay, or calling up when they have become stuck or lost, and dozens of bloody idiotic questions to numerous to mention.

Rescued off tail lifts by the fire brigade, falling asleep with the headlights on following prat navs down farm tracks coming back with half the truck missing unbelievable, we all get tarred with the same brush, from my own experience around 80% are useless and I would not trust them to steer a sweeping brush.

Please state the cut off date for modern drivers thanks .

Their is no date or particular age group or ethnicity, the steady creep of health and safety and the complete lack of the ability to think for ones self, the dumbing down of the job to such a level that anyone can do it, reflected in the vehicles we are not even trusted to change gear, if the manufactures think we are idiots the employers do also.

I hear where you’re coming from, and i don’t think age is the criteria either, i know old blokes who have driving years that are utterly useless and care less, and other young ones who try their damndest and take a pride despite the best efforts of modern mis-management to knock that old fashioned pride and individuality out of them.

Agree completely that the job has been dumbed down, and a lot of the damage caused in our yard, my lorry in particular which they manage to scrape regularly , would be less if we didn’t have ZF Arsetronic boxes (or equivalents) with their awful lurching clutch engagement, even the best of the blokes struggle sometimes in the close confines we have to work in especially in the dark…we don’t do RDC’s, most of our manoeuvers call for precise work with little room for error especially in our own loading facilities.

[raymundo]

Tris said … ‘The money is absolute rubbish considering the responsibility.’
How much is your average decent truck worth ? £50 to 80k ■■
There’s £1.3 million invested in my ‘daily ride’ so how much should I be getting ?

[f-reds]

raymundo:
Tris said … ‘The money is absolute rubbish considering the responsibility.’
How much is your average decent truck worth ? £50 to 80k ■■
There’s £1.3 million invested in my ‘daily ride’ so how much should I be getting ?

At least a packet of Opal Fruits, and a Mars Bar.

In just about any job there is scope to cost the employer a good wedge by buggering something up. I reckon its your ability to earn the money that is valuable.

[raymundo]

About three months ago I buggered it up big style to the tune of about £16/20,000

[muckaway]

I’m not sure if it was painfull or hilarious, watching a bloke with (I’d guess) a 12t plant lorry yesterday. Four shunts to get into a site in Didcot, where I can get an 8w in with just one. His truck was shorter than mine, and being two axles should’ve ■■■■■■ in compared to an 8w which have ■■■■ poor lock on the best of them.
When he’d finally picked up his abnormal load of a 3t roller, he switched on his flashing beacons.

[robroy]

Thought about this thread today when I went to load at Launceston.
It was a normal type bay but on an angle, nothing complicated for anybody.
I started the motor up and the guy came running over to me and told me exactly how to go about getting in.
I said ‘Cheers mate I’ll be ok’’
When I backed in I said to the guy (thinking about this) ‘‘Cheers for the advice mate, I was just wondering do you get a lot of bad drivers in here or something’’ his reply was ‘‘Mate, we have had some right ■■■■■■ in here’’

So case in point.

I asked him if the bad drivers were the foreigners, he said ‘‘no most of those guys are ok, it’s usually the ‘English’ drivers to be honest’’ so that dispels in this case anyway, the wisdom of our Mr Truckbling. Not sure if he meant specifically English or Brit