Contraflow wrote:
maga wrote:i heard recently on radio 5L that the average wage for a barrister is 33k…
Yes, a month.
In 1994 a Barrister charged £75 + VAT per hour so £33kpa means he has took one hell of a paycut■■?
Harry Monk:
The bottom line is that lorry driver wages are determined by the Law of Supply and Demand.Demand is down, we are in the depths of the worst recession any of us have ever lived through, there is absolutely no sign of this changing any time soon. Supply is up, because we have tens of thousands of eastern European drivers eligible to work here now.
There’s not much more to add. There’s no point in saying “we are worth X amount of pounds per hour because we are special”. None whatsoever.
Compared to the early-late 1980’s this is a boom by comparison.Albeit an artificial one being subsidised by ripping off savers to keep interest rates down.
The interesting thing about so-called “driving style” and “fuel” bonus payments is that they rely on an element of luck in the driver’s daily routine to get the best out of them for the actual driver.
For example, a driver might record a “harsh brake” for doing a very sucessful emergency stop that actually saved someone’s life (maybe their own?) on the day in question. That’s now how Fleetboard or whatever would see it though.
Also, you might see an overhead motorway sign saying “queue after next Junction, 50 minutes delay” - but because turning off here means doing an extra 5 miles (in 10 minutes), the driver will instead sit in the traffic because it’s perceived as using less fuel than “going back on oneself” on some detour.
What’s NEVER included in these “fuel bonus systems” is how much money can be saved by a yard that TOTALLY CANCELS a run that is about to be sent out fresh-air both ways… If the run is a good length one (full timer’s 4 hour each way for instance) then we’re talking about an entire tank of fuel for one single round trip - right?
I wouldn’t mind being paid 10% of THAT saving for volunteering to my guvnor that “this run today will be fresh air both ways, because I’ve taken the trouble to find that out”… Instead, what most drivers will do is keep stumn, and pick up the overtime cheque… Why? - Because if the run is cancelled, the driver just gets put on some other job (full timer) or stood down for the rest of the day (agency) in which case you’re looking at more work or less money or both. Not good eh?
I’d estimate that 90% of 9-5 hour traffic doesn’t actually need to be on the road at all. We’re talking commercial “fresh air” traffic, commuters to jobs in other towns that could be done in their own towns, and of course “petrolhead just gonna go fora spin in my new flash motor” types that are the latter-day sunday drivers these days it seems, replacing what used to be the realm of “old ■■■■ drivers” that of course has since been replaced by US, being of average age 53 and all that. 
Count how many vehicles have more than one person in them next time you are out… I reckon “driver only” easily comes to 90%…
Fuel bonus payments and accident free bonuses are averaged out over a month, so the bloke who does everything will get the good and bad days, it is up to the planner to stop the bumshiners who pick and choose the jobs.
There is only one cake to carve up, if something or someone gets a bigger share, than something or someone must suffer, the owner & shareholder wants a return on their investment, or no-one would have a job to go to. The lorry has to be paid for, including all the insurances and licenses. Without that we wouldn’t have a job to go to. the variable costs are the only place that wages can come from, so if the boss spends less on fuel, tyres and repairs, there is more cake for the driver. 
Because drivers will not join a union. Complain as much as you like but drivers have done it to themselves 
Juddian:
There could be a hundred different answers to this question, and all of them valid, not two peoples circumstances are the same.Ironic though how a 12 year old girl has put her finger straight on the root cause of the problem.
Give her my regards by the way, she’ll go far, and when she wants an old ex lorry driver to chauffer around in her Lexus 600 between business meetings tell her to keep me in mind won’t you…
The job is easy, its too easy now, drivers wrote their downfall by encouraging the lazy job with the lazy lorries, when the job was hard graft with lorries that needed strength and skill and a certain toughness to cope with, then the job wasn’t oversubscribed like it is now.
There was no glory in ■■■■■■■ 20tons onto a flat trailer, then roping and sheeting it, then driving an old banger with no power anything 200 miles to unsheet it and handball it off in the pouring rain, it took some hard blokes (and few hardy women) to manage the job back then, the pay whilst not wonderful generally reflected that. Well said that man.
I’m not saying we should go back to those days, but its gone too far the other way now where we have too many that can’t cope if their bloody sat nav packs up and they’ll drive into the nearest low bridge, any fool can pilot a mdoern lorry up a motorway and reverse onto a warehouse bay and just about manage to open the doors and in many cases thats exactly what the job has been reduced too.
OVLOV JAY:
sonofjamie:
OVLOV JAY:
Page 1 and the ‘union’ card is out already. If we still had unions, you wouldn’t have higher wages, you’d have no job and your firms work would be done by stobartsYeah, yeah, yeah. Have you not taken your medication today? What a lot of completely unfounded right wing jingoistic bull!! I’m surprised they allow you near a computer in the nursing home.
Ha ha ha,My load of coke isn’t so desperate.
Get down my local on a friday night and there would be a riot if the bloke delivering coke went on strike 
kr79:
OVLOV JAY:
sonofjamie:
OVLOV JAY:
Page 1 and the ‘union’ card is out already. If we still had unions, you wouldn’t have higher wages, you’d have no job and your firms work would be done by stobartsYeah, yeah, yeah. Have you not taken your medication today? What a lot of completely unfounded right wing jingoistic bull!! I’m surprised they allow you near a computer in the nursing home.
Ha ha ha,My load of coke isn’t so desperate.
Get down my local on a friday night and there would be a riot if the bloke delivering coke went on strike
A lot of the problem with a strike is our industury is so fragmented. Take owner drivers i bet theres a lot that couldnt survive if they went on strike. A lot of the big firms use a lot of agency staff. They would just offer stupid amounts to anyone willing to cross the line and i bet a lot would. Also how many employed staff could afford a prolonged period of strike. The consumer socioty path the government mefia and big business has led us down means many people live hand to mouth every week.
kr79:
A lot of the problem with a strike is our industury is so fragmented. Take owner drivers i bet theres a lot that couldnt survive if they went on strike. A lot of the big firms use a lot of agency staff. They would just offer stupid amounts to anyone willing to cross the line and i bet a lot would. Also how many employed staff could afford a prolonged period of strike. The consumer socioty path the government mefia and big business has led us down means many people live hand to mouth every week.
And there we have it! 
The government and other stakeholders know what they are doing. A low pay threshold holds the working masses at the mercy of employers. I find it interesting that we now have workers fighting each other for jobs instead of fighting for their rights to a living wage.
Many times on these forums I have read that “my missus earns more than that stacking shelves.” That is probably true, but she only gets 16 hours per week or does a Sunday.
I was offered a job at £11.33 per hour but it was only 7 hours per week seeing school kids across the road, free uniform, loads of holidays and a stick to beat unruly kids. However none of these jobs will provide a roof for your family, neither will it allow you to smoke, drink, own a car or take three holidays a year.
miketaurus:
kr79:
A lot of the problem with a strike is our industury is so fragmented. Take owner drivers i bet theres a lot that couldnt survive if they went on strike. A lot of the big firms use a lot of agency staff. They would just offer stupid amounts to anyone willing to cross the line and i bet a lot would. Also how many employed staff could afford a prolonged period of strike. The consumer socioty path the government mefia and big business has led us down means many people live hand to mouth every week.And there we have it!
Read this and you’ll see why…
As an ex driver and an ex TM I have seen it from both sides. I certainly remember the strike for £1 and hour, and I remember the inflation that this and other strikes caused. (I know it was not THAT simple but they were a major factor)
I believe there are two primary reasons why drivers get a low hourly rate (as opposed to ‘take home pay’):
newmercman:
miketaurus:
kr79:
A lot of the problem with a strike is our industury is so fragmented. Take owner drivers i bet theres a lot that couldnt survive if they went on strike. A lot of the big firms use a lot of agency staff. They would just offer stupid amounts to anyone willing to cross the line and i bet a lot would. Also how many employed staff could afford a prolonged period of strike. The consumer socioty path the government mefia and big business has led us down means many people live hand to mouth every week.And there we have it!
Read this and you’ll see why…
Thank you and yes that’s is what’s happening. We can see that societal behaviour is changing for the worse.
A balanced economy is a healthy economy with differing and variable businesses. The current lead with larger institutions and global investments that dismantle small and medium businesses will bring itself down.
The rich see workers as ants to do their work, while they lye on the beach, bloating and frying in their self indulgence.
Workers are human beings and deserve to be recognised and treated in a manner that respects and illustrates that.
Hope I do not sound too much like Citizen Smith
miketaurus:
newmercman:
miketaurus:
kr79:
A lot of the problem with a strike is our industury is so fragmented. Take owner drivers i bet theres a lot that couldnt survive if they went on strike. A lot of the big firms use a lot of agency staff. They would just offer stupid amounts to anyone willing to cross the line and i bet a lot would. Also how many employed staff could afford a prolonged period of strike. The consumer socioty path the government mefia and big business has led us down means many people live hand to mouth every week.And there we have it!
Read this and you’ll see why…
Thank you and yes that’s is what’s happening. We can see that societal behaviour is changing for the worse.
A balanced economy is a healthy economy with differing and variable businesses. The current lead with larger institutions and global investments that dismantle small and medium businesses will bring itself down.
The rich see workers as ants to do their work, while they lye on the beach, bloating and frying in their self indulgence.
Workers are human beings and deserve to be recognised and treated in a manner that respects and illustrates that.
Hope I do not sound too much like Citizen Smith
I follow all this rich getting richer stuff avidly, I know a lot of it is paranoia, but the fundamentals of the situation are bang on the money (pardon the pun) The world appears to be waking up, although you have to dig around to find out what’s happening as the media would rather (at the wishes of their mega rich owners) tell you about non news involving non celebrities and their latest affair or whatever other nonsense they’re attempting to brainwash us with
TBH I preferred things before I became aware of this, as now I’m ■■■■■■ off with the knowledge that the dream of working hard to get all the trappings of wealth is nothing but a lie 
Santa:
As an ex driver and an ex TM I have seen it from both sides. I certainly remember the strike for £1 and hour, and I remember the inflation that this and other strikes caused. (I know it was not THAT simple but they were a major factor)I believe there are two primary reasons why drivers get a low hourly rate (as opposed to ‘take home pay’):
- To train a reasonably competent car driver to drive a 44 tonne artic takes about three or four weeks.
- The nature of most driving jobs means working (in the sense of being paid for) long hours. Bosses do not like paying anyone to sleep on his bunk, even though it’s not anything under there control. In the last twenty years of my driving career, I doubt if I averaged more than six hours actual work a day, while being paid for twice that.
Who wants to strike? That’s destructive! The aim should be to enable employers to share its wealth. A win/win situation. I disagree that most driving jobs are sat about work. However I acknowledge you know more than me about the in’s and out’s of the transport industry than I as you have had experience of being a TM.
Mike Taurus, Newmercman, et al.
Welcome to my world, i haven’t bought a newspaper for nigh on 30 years now, similarly i no longer watch the telly propaganda broadcast laughingly known as the news, nor the audio version via radio.
I’ve been getting my information via alternative sources for many years, not just the wests version of events either, and don’t get me started on celebrity culture, jeremy piggin kyle or vine, nor benefits bloody street.
Not sure if the liberation of recovering your independent thought is worth the depression the truth brings in spades.
newmercman:
miketaurus:
newmercman:
miketaurus:
kr79:
A lot of the problem with a strike is our industury is so fragmented. Take owner drivers i bet theres a lot that couldnt survive if they went on strike. A lot of the big firms use a lot of agency staff. They would just offer stupid amounts to anyone willing to cross the line and i bet a lot would. Also how many employed staff could afford a prolonged period of strike. The consumer socioty path the government mefia and big business has led us down means many people live hand to mouth every week.And there we have it!
Read this and you’ll see why…
Thank you and yes that’s is what’s happening. We can see that societal behaviour is changing for the worse.
A balanced economy is a healthy economy with differing and variable businesses. The current lead with larger institutions and global investments that dismantle small and medium businesses will bring itself down.
The rich see workers as ants to do their work, while they lye on the beach, bloating and frying in their self indulgence.
Workers are human beings and deserve to be recognised and treated in a manner that respects and illustrates that.
Hope I do not sound too much like Citizen Smith
I follow all this rich getting richer stuff avidly, I know a lot of it is paranoia, but the fundamentals of the situation are bang on the money (pardon the pun) The world appears to be waking up, although you have to dig around to find out what’s happening as the media would rather (at the wishes of their mega rich owners) tell you about non news involving non celebrities and their latest affair or whatever other nonsense they’re attempting to brainwash us with
TBH I preferred things before I became aware of this, as now I’m ■■■■■■ off with the knowledge that the dream of working hard to get all the trappings of wealth is nothing but a lie
Yes. No one believes anything from these so called journalistic platforms. Where can we go to see outside of the media illusion?
Juddian:
Mike Taurus, Newmercman, et al.Welcome to my world, i haven’t bought a newspaper for nigh on 30 years now, similarly i no longer watch the telly propaganda broadcast laughingly known as the news, nor the audio version via radio.
I’ve been getting my information via alternative sources for many years, not just the wests version of events either, and don’t get me started on celebrity culture, jeremy piggin kyle or vine, nor benefits bloody street.
Not sure if the liberation of recovering your independent thought is worth the depression the truth brings in spades.
Well I am with with you on that. Thanks for the light hearted interlude The recovery as you mentioned is sobering but then again the way out is popping down the local for a couple of the finest
It’s a crazy situation, we need a car and a phone, internet connection, grocery shopping, blah blah blah, so we can go to work to earn money to pay for all this crap that we wouldn’t need if we never went to work in the first place, we’re slaves, but we don’t realise it 
Richard Briers and Felicity Kendall had the right idea in the Good Life, looking at it I don’t think that would be such a bad idea, especially if the missus has an arse like Felicity Kendall
