Dipper_Dave:
In my limited experience I’ve found the biggest risk to shooting a load is short sharp jerks, a smooth controlled rythum whether stopping or starting is ideal to keep ones load inplace.
Adopting a smooth style is great but we all know there’s unforseen events and the times when we need to just hurry up a bit, especially when late for a drop.
There’s nothing more awkward than arriving late whilst the recipient of your load is looking at you with that ‘hurry up’ expression.
[In your face everyone who’s thinking I can’t pull off a clean reply to this topic.]
Dipper_Dave:
In my limited experience I’ve found the biggest risk to shooting a load is short sharp jerks, a smooth controlled rythum whether stopping or starting is ideal to keep ones load inplace.
Adopting a smooth style is great but we all know there’s unforseen events and the times when we need to just hurry up a bit, especially when late for a drop.
There’s nothing more awkward than arriving late whilst the recipient of your load is looking at you with that ‘hurry up’ expression.
[In your face everyone who’s thinking I can’t pull off a clean reply to this topic.]
I usually got the “You’re too early” look…
I occasionally get the “you better not have a full load” look. Plenty in the tank madam.
Thanks for more replies. jakethesnake - yes I did get the training, but until you’ve actually driven a loaded truck it’s difficult to really get a grip of what they are saying, at least it was for me.
Has anyone actually had a load move backwards in any sort of significant or dangerous way? And was the truck moving forwards or backwards? The acceleration on the trucks I’ve driven is so slow (ie truck doesn’t even move for a second or two after pushing down on the pedal while stationary) I can’t imagine there ever being enough power to shift a load backwards in a forward gear.
A fully loaded truck is not often likely to have enough power to leave a properly wrapped load behind.
But a short steep slope, maybe into a gateway entrance, may do it. Braking when reversing is quite able to do it. A dead stop from less than walking pace could upset the load. As already said its not the speed, its the acceleration that counts.
Back onto a bay and step on the brake, youll shoot some loads easily. Remember also that its not just the load, firmly attached to pallets that moves on the truck, as others have pointed out if the load is badly packaged/wrapped itll move separately to the pallet. Ive had loads where the individual goods are boxed in cartons, the bottom layer of boxes crushes down during the trip, and the pallet becomes unstable. You cant prevent that, but if the load is properly secured the damage should be minimized. Lots of little boxes are generally less stable than a few big boxes. Good stacks wont have vertical stacks of boxes, but will be staggered as a brick wall is. Cardboard between layers will help tie a pallet together too. Boxes stacked just over the edge of a pallet can have the bottom surface distort in a way they wouldnt if the whole box including the edge was supported by the pallet. Badly film-wrapped or shrink wrapped pallets need more restraint. And if in doubt Ill clause the CMR as “inadequate packaging” or some such. Shippers will often then be prepared to go to the “vast expense” of a few extra pennies on extra cling film! I carry a roll of cling film in the cab too.
Another point is the co-efficient of static friction is generally less than the co-efficient of dynamic friction.
Once something starts to move it`ll move easier, so prevent any movement in the first place.
The time to put a few straps on a load is normally nowt compared to the loading and driving times.
wanderingstar:
Thanks for more replies. jakethesnake - yes I did get the training, but until you’ve actually driven a loaded truck it’s difficult to really get a grip of what they are saying, at least it was for me.
Has anyone actually had a load move backwards in any sort of significant or dangerous way? And was the truck moving forwards or backwards? The acceleration on the trucks I’ve driven is so slow (ie truck doesn’t even move for a second or two after pushing down on the pedal while stationary) I can’t imagine there ever being enough power to shift a load backwards in a forward gear.
Giving it some beans with your foot to the floor pulling away from a junction will create enough of a jerk to topple a load backwards, especially if you’re pulling away on an incline. It really doesn’t take much and that’s why you should always drive to your load, ensuring you drive smoothly and take bends/corners/roundabouts nice and steady. You soon learn the art of smoothness when you get given loads like this in a standard curtain-sider (yes they are all full).
Franglais:
A fully loaded truck is not often likely to have enough power to leave a properly wrapped load behind.
But a short steep slope, maybe into a gateway entrance, may do it. Braking when reversing is quite able to do it. A dead stop from less than walking pace could upset the load. As already said its not the speed, its the acceleration that counts.
Back onto a bay and step on the brake, youll shoot some loads easily. Remember also that its not just the load, firmly attached to pallets that moves on the truck, as others have pointed out if the load is badly packaged/wrapped itll move separately to the pallet. Ive had loads where the individual goods are boxed in cartons, the bottom layer of boxes crushes down during the trip, and the pallet becomes unstable. You cant prevent that, but if the load is properly secured the damage should be minimized. Lots of little boxes are generally less stable than a few big boxes. Good stacks wont have vertical stacks of boxes, but will be staggered as a brick wall is. Cardboard between layers will help tie a pallet together too. Boxes stacked just over the edge of a pallet can have the bottom surface distort in a way they wouldn`t if the whole box including the edge was supported by the pallet. Badly film-wrapped or shrink wrapped pallets need more restraint.
None of which the driver has any control over, you stand on that manhole cover facing the wall [emoji23]
I’ve had a load of soft drinks move, and a load of magazines.
The soft drinks were misshapen, but not badly enough to get the load rejected. That was my fault - I spotted a big pothole on the corner on the way in to the delivery and very smoothly… drove straight into it
The magazines were shot by the truck panic braking for a motorway bridge , I didn’t manage to catch it quite before it banged the brakes on. They all came out wonky but okay.
If you’re concerned about backwards movement, I used to double cross the internals over the back. 1 high, 1 low.
You’ll get some drivers making comments like “Are you paid by the strap?!” and so on, but really you’ve got to do whatever it takes to make you feel comfortable that you’ve done your best to secure the load. I don’t have much experience to rely on, so I mostly rely on going over the top with straps, especially if it’s something I’m unfamiliar with.
You’ve got to use your brain, other drivers can help - but ultimately it’s your shoulder that a ■■■■ up will fall on.
Franglais:
A fully loaded truck is not often likely to have enough power to leave a properly wrapped load behind.
But a short steep slope, maybe into a gateway entrance, may do it. Braking when reversing is quite able to do it. A dead stop from less than walking pace could upset the load. As already said its not the speed, its the acceleration that counts.
Back onto a bay and step on the brake, youll shoot some loads easily. Remember also that its not just the load, firmly attached to pallets that moves on the truck, as others have pointed out if the load is badly packaged/wrapped itll move separately to the pallet. Ive had loads where the individual goods are boxed in cartons, the bottom layer of boxes crushes down during the trip, and the pallet becomes unstable. You cant prevent that, but if the load is properly secured the damage should be minimized. Lots of little boxes are generally less stable than a few big boxes. Good stacks wont have vertical stacks of boxes, but will be staggered as a brick wall is. Cardboard between layers will help tie a pallet together too. Boxes stacked just over the edge of a pallet can have the bottom surface distort in a way they wouldn`t if the whole box including the edge was supported by the pallet. Badly film-wrapped or shrink wrapped pallets need more restraint.
None of which the driver has any control over, you stand on that manhole cover facing the wall [emoji23]
OK.
But, although we won`t be repackaging everything, an “iffy” looking stack on a pallet deserves more straps, and we do control that.
wanderingstar:
Has anyone actually had a load move backwards in any sort of significant or dangerous way?
About a month ago I picked up a trailer which was loaded at Amazon, and brought to our yard. When I arrived at my destination I opened the back doors and the rear pallet was so tall and badly stacked that it had fallen against the left hand door. It’s a good job we open the right hand door first as the collecting driver didn’t bother throwing a strap across.
As some have pointed out the stability of the load on many pallets does leave a lot to be desired .
It may not be one movement that causes the problem but loosening anything is easy if you wag it too and fro or side to side .
Slip mats , packing between the pallets , correct size pallets and strapping every thing certainly helps and a really smooth driving style certainly helps .
Is it just chance that the gap between the goods on stacked pallets is the same size as a stood up pallet?
On box trucks or trailers the use of load bars certainly helps prevent movement, doing similar on curtain siders with packing has got to help .
If the load moves whilst in transit, it was insecure when it started its journey.
If the loads were secured in the way they would have to be if loaded on a flat trailer ie, sheeted, fly sheeted, then roped over and between the pallets with crossers and double kinches , it would go nowhere.
It would take all day to do it, but you’d have the consolation of being able to drive it like you stole it when you eventually got going.
You see some chilling sights sometimes when drivers open their trailer curtains.
I was in a yard recently where a truck came in to be emptied of its load of plasterboard. Large logistics company providing dedicated haulage to the manufacturer. Floor of the trailer filled out nicely end to end, with four two ton packs doubled up. Strapping system installed so the driver didn’t need to climb on the trailer, all good. But the top packs whuch would weigh around eight tons were around twelve feet from the head board and held by four straps in total. In the event of sudden, rapid deceleration there is only one way the eight tons is going and the headboard is not going to stop it. I mentioned it to the driver who acknowledged the danger and said he just tried not to think about it.
Old John:
You see some chilling sights sometimes when drivers open their trailer curtains.
I was in a yard recently where a truck came in to be emptied of its load of plasterboard. Large logistics company providing dedicated haulage to the manufacturer. Floor of the trailer filled out nicely end to end, with four two ton packs doubled up. Strapping system installed so the driver didn’t need to climb on the trailer, all good. But the top packs whuch would weigh around eight tons were around twelve feet from the head board and held by four straps in total. In the event of sudden, rapid deceleration there is only one way the eight tons is going and the headboard is not going to stop it. I mentioned it to the driver who acknowledged the danger and said he just tried not to think about it.
Many years ago I loaded a 20ft box at Flixborough steel works for Felixstowe. They had teams of loaders there who spent about an hour building a solid wood brace inside the container before loading it with the steel. It looked like a work of art when they’d finished as we closed the doors. I went to book in at Trinity at Felixstowe but typically it was wrong and needed to be lifted off at Landguard so I went down the internal road to the little rbt at the end to turn right to Landguard. A car was coming from the opposite direction at the rbt at some speed, no indication so like any other driver would probably do, assumed he was going straight over. He wasn’t and hooked round to the right causing me to stand on the brake pedal (late 90s Actros - known for their keen brakes). The load of steel came straight through the front of the container like a hot knife through butter . The fancy wood bracing they’d spent an hour building and bolting to the floor did absolutely nothing, and nor did the thick corrugated steel headboard of the container itself. It completely trashed the container and causing a third party handler quite some headaches as they couldn’t crane it off the skelly because the structural integrity of the box was no longer there and the steel just fell out the bottom when they tried to lift it.
It’s probably fair to say that if it hadn’t been inside a thick steel corrugated container and instead been inside your average curtain sider with a flimsy 1" wood headboard it would have probably sliced straight through the cab to where I was sitting, possibly with fatal consequences given that the floor of the container is roughly the same height as the cab seat. It’s easy to get complacent and tell yourself you’ll be fine so long as you drive to your load (as I’m guilty of) but if a child,wild animal or anything else unexpected suddenly runs out into path your natural instinct is to avoid hitting it by slamming on or swerving. You’ll get lucky 9 times out of 10 and no harm done, but then there’s that 1 time where a combination of circumstances creates the perfect storm and that can end up being a life-changer - and not in a good way. The above incident is the main reason why I’ve always shied away from doing steel haulage because if you’re unfortunate enough to get ‘it’ wrong, it bites you hard and I’m not risking my life for twelve quid an hour when I can be dragging pallets of newspapers around for the same money.
wanderingstar:
Thanks for more replies. jakethesnake - yes I did get the training, but until you’ve actually driven a loaded truck it’s difficult to really get a grip of what they are saying, at least it was for me.
Has anyone actually had a load move backwards in any sort of significant or dangerous way? And was the truck moving forwards or backwards? The acceleration on the trucks I’ve driven is so slow (ie truck doesn’t even move for a second or two after pushing down on the pedal while stationary) I can’t imagine there ever being enough power to shift a load backwards in a forward gear.
Giving it some beans with your foot to the floor pulling away from a junction will create enough of a jerk to topple a load backwards, especially if you’re pulling away on an incline. It really doesn’t take much and that’s why you should always drive to your load, ensuring you drive smoothly and take bends/corners/roundabouts nice and steady. You soon learn the art of smoothness when you get given loads like this in a standard curtain-sider (yes they are all full).
Being on fridges and more specifically multi drop work I often run around with an “odd” pallet either on the left or the right of the trailer. Now as I’m basically bone idle I never secure these pallets but instead rely on not driving like a ■■■■ to ensure they don’t move. I’ve never had one go over sideways but because of my inner ■■■■ I have had one or two go over backwards, so yes I would say that even a fully laden lorry accelerating hard can cause one to go over.
Old John:
You see some chilling sights sometimes when drivers open their trailer curtains.
I was in a yard recently where a truck came in to be emptied of its load of plasterboard. Large logistics company providing dedicated haulage to the manufacturer. Floor of the trailer filled out nicely end to end, with four two ton packs doubled up. Strapping system installed so the driver didn’t need to climb on the trailer, all good. But the top packs whuch would weigh around eight tons were around twelve feet from the head board and held by four straps in total. In the event of sudden, rapid deceleration there is only one way the eight tons is going and the headboard is not going to stop it. I mentioned it to the driver who acknowledged the danger and said he just tried not to think about it.
Many years ago I loaded a 20ft box at Flixborough steel works for Felixstowe. They had teams of loaders there who spent about an hour building a solid wood brace inside the container before loading it with the steel. It looked like a work of art when they’d finished as we closed the doors. I went to book in at Trinity at Felixstowe but typically it was wrong and needed to be lifted off at Landguard so I went down the internal road to the little rbt at the end to turn right to Landguard. A car was coming from the opposite direction at the rbt at some speed, no indication so like any other driver would probably do, assumed he was going straight over. He wasn’t and hooked round to the right causing me to stand on the brake pedal (late 90s Actros - known for their keen brakes). The load of steel came straight through the front of the container like a hot knife through butter . The fancy wood bracing they’d spent an hour building and bolting to the floor did absolutely nothing, and nor did the thick corrugated steel headboard of the container itself. It completely trashed the container and causing a third party handler quite some headaches as they couldn’t crane it off the skelly because the structural integrity of the box was no longer there and the steel just fell out the bottom when they tried to lift it.
More suggestion that it’s kinetic energy at work not just a case of cancelling out or containing G force of the load’s movement relative to the truck’s.
As others have mentioned, as well as Kinetic/G’s being the cause its also the type of load being carried. In the main its agg in bulk bags we carry and 30 bags on the floor just settle down into one big immovable mass and no matter how you drive its never going anywhere, even with another 6 doubled up (albeit in a tilt) over the bogie no straps are ever needed. Totally different scenario with pallets of bottled/ canned shrink wrapped drink…
Old John:
If the load moves whilst in transit, it was insecure when it started its journey.
If the loads were secured in the way they would have to be if loaded on a flat trailer ie, sheeted, fly sheeted, then roped over and between the pallets with crossers and double kinches , it would go nowhere.
It would take all day to do it, but you’d have the consolation of being able to drive it like you stole it when you eventually got going.
You see some chilling sights sometimes when drivers open their trailer curtains.
I was in a yard recently where a truck came in to be emptied of its load of plasterboard. Large logistics company providing dedicated haulage to the manufacturer. Floor of the trailer filled out nicely end to end, with four two ton packs doubled up. Strapping system installed so the driver didn’t need to climb on the trailer, all good. But the top packs whuch would weigh around eight tons were around twelve feet from the head board and held by four straps in total. In the event of sudden, rapid deceleration there is only one way the eight tons is going and the headboard is not going to stop it. I mentioned it to the driver who acknowledged the danger and said he just tried not to think about it.
AndrewG:
As others have mentioned, as well as Kinetic/G’s being the cause
As it stands Kinetic energy isn’t taken into account at all regarding load security.IE cancelling out G force created by the relative speed of the load relative to the speed of the ruck with an opposing force isn’t the same thing as transmitting the kinetic energy contained in the load to the brakes to be turned into heat.Which is why truck bodies and axles aren’t secured to the chassis with ropes or straps let alone plastic shrink wrap.
peterm:
Does anyone over there use a sheet of ply wood in front of loads like this? It’s what happens over here most of the time. It’s like having an extra headboard. It’s the same principle of sheeting. Sheet over load, rope or strap round the front back and over the top and it’s going nowhere.
Exactly, is it beyond the wit to stand a couple of pallets up in front of the load, and together with a couple of corner boards to protect the top layers, to criss cross the front adequately with mobile straps to prevent forward movement?
Also a bit of forward planning on the road and not tailgating would see a large reduction in this type of problem, but the operator might have to stump up some real pay to recruit these too obvious for words skills, hence carry on.
Years ago we managed to carry really wet loads of offal and similar in open standard tippers, so wet was it that if you went up through the gears without deliberately missing a gear, by about the 4th change the wave effect in the trailer would be so pronounced that the load could surge over the tailgate, so you made smooth progress.
AndrewG:
As others have mentioned, as well as Kinetic/G’s being the cause
As it stands Kinetic energy isn’t taken into account at all regarding load security.IE cancelling out G force created by the relative speed of the load relative to the speed of the ruck with an opposing force isn’t the same thing as transmitting the kinetic energy contained in the load to the brakes to be turned into heat.Which is why truck bodies and axles aren’t secured to the chassis with ropes or straps let alone plastic shrink wrap.
I wasnt refering to securing a load, my post was reference types of load.
Thanks for the info re shrink wrap not being used to secure axles, all the axles ive ever lifted up using shrink wrap when i should have used something better like maybe, a chain…
. The fancy wood bracing they’d spent an hour building and bolting to the floor did absolutely nothing, and nor did the thick corrugated steel headboard of the container itself. It completely trashed the container and causing a third party handler quite some headaches as they couldn’t crane it off the skelly because the structural integrity of the box was no longer there and the steel just fell out the bottom when they tried to lift it.