What's good about this [zb]? Another T&D gem

[rob22888]

If you lack skills and qualifications, HGV driving is a way of substantially increasing your earnings rather quickly. Training is often said to be too expensive, but £2k soon pays for itself if you see your weekly take home goes from around £200-250 stacking shelves to easily £400+ on Class 1.

That said, I think you would be much better off going learning another practical trade like plumbing, mechanic etc. where you can earn well without the 15 hour shifts, 4am starts and being treated like dog dirt.

[alte_hase]

.

[newmercman]

Harry Monk:

Carryfast:
Blimey Harry it’s only those who were lucky enough to get onto international who think it was there for taking.When even in the best of those days it wasn’t easy to get on at all.

In east Kent in the late 1980s, it was 100x harder to get a UK only job than Italy runs.

Same in my neck of the woods, the only uk jobs were dead man’s boots firms.

[carryfast]

newmercman:

Harry Monk:

Carryfast:
Blimey Harry it’s only those who were lucky enough to get onto international who think it was there for taking.When even in the best of those days it wasn’t easy to get on at all.

In east Kent in the late 1980s, it was 100x harder to get a UK only job than Italy runs.

Same in my neck of the woods, the only uk jobs were dead man’s boots firms.

I could have swapped you a job on the council just across the border in Surrey early 1980’s or a night trunking job a bit further up the road later.

[newmercman]

No you’re alright, I preferred a trip to Prato than Preston

[robroy]

alte hase:

robroy:
[
Ok, things are pretty bad, in a lot of respects compared to what they used to be, in other apects things have improved.
The ‘tin boxes’ are now on par with a lot of luxury motor homes in terms of comfort and self contained facilities, ok not comparable with being at home, but maybe next best thing, and not half as bleak as you put them down as.

By your own admission you have never done nights out, so it hardly qualifies you to condemn the job to that degree, being that it is speculative opinion rather than first hand experience.

Why do people like you think of us in such a negative (not to mention btw. downright insulting) ways.
We are trampERS not [zb] TRAMPS .

Ok, I admit a few do resemble the latter, but most of us do have standards, and I like to think that we are in the majority.

I have a shower every day, if I can not for any reason, I have the next best thing in the cab.
My cab interior is clean and spotless and is maintained so, every day.

I have never had a [zb] in the cab in my life, I use the nearest toilet the following morning.
Ok I hold my hands up to the ■■■■■■■ in a bottle thing, but it is more hygenic than doing it on a park ground, causing an unholy unhygenic [zb] stink after a few days.

I do not park in lay bys, but somewhere near to some facilities.
As for kudos/ living the dream…who tf mentioned that exactly?

It is just a job where you have to make the best of, if you do not, ok it is pretty crap, and those that CHOOSE hardship have a [zb] miserable life in a truck.

So can I suggest that you keep your speculative non substantiated, generalised, negative ■■■■■■■■ to yourself until you are qualified to comment.

I’ve driven trucks since 1972, starting not in the UK or Europe and guarantee none that you’ve driven I haven’t, you don’t need to experience what others display publicly, the evidence of the disgusting lifestyle that truck drivers indulge in litters the lay-bys and industrial estates of Britain.
If I wanted to do nights-away I only need say so and the company would switch me to that type of work, the fleet are latest spec Merc Actross units and just driving one and resting in the cab on a mid shift break gives me plenty of insight into what you describe as the equivalent to a luxury motor-home.
I would want an apology for a wasted trip if someone advertised their luxury motor-home for sale and it turned out to be the equivalent in size and specification of any EU sleeper-cab truck, truly you are a sad creature, but love your attempt to distance yourself from your own kind. It didn’t work btw.

Your appalling ill mannered rudeness, as bad as it is, does not come anywhere near your inflated high opinion of yourself.
What are you doing coming on here and mixing with the likes of us .quote;…‘’ base disgusting beings, and sad creatures’’
You should get off your high horse mate, you are a mere truck driver like the rest of us despite your illusions of grandeur.

Fyi, I don’t care a flying ■■■■ what you have driven, or if you have been driving since 1872 let alone 1972,… wtf exactly has that got to do with you explaining how you are an absolute authority on something that in reality, you know absolutely ■■■■ all about first hand.

I admit there are a lot of neandrathal drivers who live like pigs in ■■■■ and leave as much mess, but how dare you generalise and state an implication that we are all of a type, especially as it would include me, of whom you know absolutely nothing about.
So I will continue to distance myself from this minority, despite how much you say you ‘‘love it’’

My comparison to a mobile home quite clearly stated ‘‘in terms of self contained facilities’’ I thought even you would be actually intelligent enough to realise I was not referring to the actual size.
Come back down to earth mate, you are neither convincing or impressing anybody.

[carryfast]

newmercman:
No you’re alright, I preferred a trip to Prato than Preston

To be fair I was delayed enough a few times to see Sheffield and the Bolsover coal fields in daylight on the way home from Dewsbury and the scenery along the M40 on the way out and back on Scotch change overs in the Summer evenings and mornings wasn’t too bad.While the council job could be a brilliant skive on log books.

[newmercman]

I used to love going up Bolsover Hill as I made my way to Newark from Chesterfield. It was when I was doing BSE guts and snot and I had a LHD 144 Scania, used to hit the bottom in the gear that would see me over the top so I never slopped the load around too much to avoid the back door bursting open, because it was a left hooked the exhaust came out just behind the kerb side front wheel, pedestrians walking up the hill used to do a funny dance when the blast of air hit the back of their legs!

[pat_hasler]

rob22888:
If you lack skills and qualifications, HGV driving is a way of substantially increasing your earnings rather quickly. Training is often said to be too expensive, but £2k soon pays for itself if you see your weekly take home goes from around £200-250 stacking shelves to easily £400+ on Class 1.

That said, I think you would be much better off going learning another practical trade like plumbing, mechanic etc. where you can earn well without the 15 hour shifts, 4am starts and being treated like dog dirt.

That money is rubbish, in 1987 I left Swifts in Northampton where I was earning 200 quid a week for 50 hours, I went to Transfleet for 290 quid a week, onw year later I moved to Federal Express for a stating weekly wage of 360 quid a week, I was made redundant in 1994 and was paid 15k redundancy pay, on leaving my weekly wage was 480 a week, I am not going to carry on but I am pointing how bad these wages you are talking about are. Sorry to offend anyone.

[pat_hasler]

rob22888:
If you lack skills and qualifications, HGV driving is a way of substantially increasing your earnings rather quickly. Training is often said to be too expensive, but £2k soon pays for itself if you see your weekly take home goes from around £200-250 stacking shelves to easily £400+ on Class 1.

That said, I think you would be much better off going learning another practical trade like plumbing, mechanic etc. where you can earn well without the 15 hour shifts, 4am starts and being treated like dog dirt.

That money is rubbish, in 1987 I left Swifts in Northampton where I was earning 200 quid a week for 50 hours, I went to Transfleet for 290 quid a week, onw year later I moved to Federal Express for a stating weekly wage of 360 quid a week, I was made redundant in 1994 and was paid 15k redundancy pay, on leaving my weekly wage was 480 a week, I am not going to carry on but I am pointing how bad these wages you are talking about are. Sorry to offend anyone.

[ovlov_jay]

Pat Hasler:

rob22888:
If you lack skills and qualifications, HGV driving is a way of substantially increasing your earnings rather quickly. Training is often said to be too expensive, but £2k soon pays for itself if you see your weekly take home goes from around £200-250 stacking shelves to easily £400+ on Class 1.

That said, I think you would be much better off going learning another practical trade like plumbing, mechanic etc. where you can earn well without the 15 hour shifts, 4am starts and being treated like dog dirt.

That money is rubbish, in 1987 I left Swifts in Northampton where I was earning 200 quid a week for 50 hours, I went to Transfleet for 290 quid a week, onw year later I moved to Federal Express for a stating weekly wage of 360 quid a week, I was made redundant in 1994 and was paid 15k redundancy pay, on leaving my weekly wage was 480 a week, I am not going to carry on but I am pointing how bad these wages you are talking about are. Sorry to offend anyone.

And that’s the real issue why you won’t get anyone into the industry anymore. Wages stopped going up in real terms when the eu extended to Poland etc. In real terms the average take home should now be around £750 a week. Unfortunately now, most are on the equivalent per hour to a shelf stacker, just doing more hours.

[muckaway]

There’re aren’t many jobs in this industry that’d keep me in it, my current job is one of them though. No nights out, no timed deliveries, no handball. I’d like to do my class 1 but there’s absolutely no point; My employer has no use for an artic (although if they did they said they’d put me through it) and the work on offer around here does not interest me.
Once experienced you really need to find an area that interests you. Construction has always interested me so I’m happy to stay in this area. I hate having to wash/polish trucks so I’d never get a job with a glory boy firm, but I’m the sort who’ll drive a grubby wagon with half it’s load coating the interior.

[juddian]

Looking to recruit lorry drivers?

Is this an attempt to put lots more cheap disinterested incompetent licenece holders onto FTA/RHA fleets, by making the job out to be something it isn’t.

Or could it be wondering how to recruit those fine young men and women who had childhood thoughts of becoming lorry drivers, by providing them with a recognised skilled vocation well rewarded and with the emphasis on skill and enthusiasm.

If its the former, then the present regime is doing sterling work dumbing the job down to lowest common denominator, specifying lorries that a buffoon could drive (select D press the loud pedal) with the simplest of dumbed down work, such as back on bank and hand your keys in you naughty child the go an sit in the corner (all thats missing is the KKK hat with D writ large on it to wear), then wondering why an increasing number of buffoons forms too many of the applications.

If its the latter then hows about having a bloody rethink, stop the dumbing down, provide a vehicle that needs a lorry driver to drive, a job that needs a bit of nous to do, then those who can do the job can earn the respect that used to go with the job when i still had dark hair.
The lorry driver does not need a simple press D and the loud pedal because for the very simple fact he IS a lorry driver and can and always will do the job better than the machine.

The lorry driver needs one main tool for his/her job, a lorry specified properly for the job it is intended to do, one size does not fit all, it doesn’t need to change gear for them (though some prefer that option so give them the choice, but stop forcing lorry drivers to be dumbed down to the most incompetent fool’s level), it doesn’t need to brake for them, nor control the distance they travel from the vehicle in front, nor does it need to warn them if they happen to cross what the vehicle perceives to be a white line.

There are still jobs out there where its possible, but increasingly difficult as real transport management vanish, to take a pride in the job, but increasingly with dumbing down and the emphasis now on bling/image with a weird pride being taken in a lorry’s badge or the BHP number loudly stated on the side, though this is possibly the natural progression for those who believed having the right named trainers or latest phone when they were in puberty gave them some sort of status.

There are still young men and women who want to be lorry drivers, just the same as i and hundreds of thousands more did when we were still in short trousers, these are the people our industry needs, those who will turn up for work on time every time whatever the day may hold in store, who want to learn the job and be treated and renumerated as a transport professional when they have earned their spurs.

I could go on for hours boring the socks of everyone, and there are many who will not agree with me.

Thing is we’ve been dumbing the job down for the last 15 years or more and look where its got us, those committed competent drivers are coming through but in small numbers.
More and more drivers who have loved the job for decades can’t wait to hang their keys up for the last time, ask yourselves why and whether it might be worth a rethink while there might still be time.

One small suggestion for a kick start, hows about not leasing the one size fits all vehicle the salesman tells you you need , hows about asking the lorry driver doing the job properly day in day out (not sick notes) what might be best for the job, the suggestion might not actually be for the latest fully auto bling thing with the right willy waving bhp badge…and the lorry drivers choice might not necessarily be what attracts numbums to seats, but do you want numbums or lorry drivers, if you want more numbums and walking sick notes then carry on the race to the bottom, if you want a resurgence in lorry drivers maybe think again?

[robroy]

OVLOV JAY:
And that’s the real issue why you won’t get anyone into the industry anymore. Wages stopped going up in real terms when the eu extended to Poland etc. In real terms the average take home should now be around £750 a week. Unfortunately now, most are on the equivalent per hour to a shelf stacker, just doing more hours.

A lot of jobs do pay decent money, paired with decent overtime rates, the trick is finding them as they tend to be ‘dead man’s shoes’ jobs. I have had a couple of these type jobs in the past, totalling about 13 years, but made redundant on both.

Most are just run of the mill general haulage average pay jobs. Others are totally crap pay, where as others (and most) somewhere in between the two.

In the crap ones, you still always get the drivers who are still strangely happy as a pig in ■■■■ (usually but not always driving a flash motor) in ignorant bliss boasting about the job paying ‘good money’, and how much they are taking home.

Ok their bottom line actual amount looks good when you are banking it,… but it is what you are doing in terms of working hours to actually achieve it, that is the problem, and shows it up to be not so good after all.(but maybe still not to the blisfull driver)

Many are too bloody stupid to realise that it is actually crap after they take off their night out money, which admit it or not, is not wage but expenses/subsistence.

They do not take into account when they are still convincing themselves how good the money is. … that they have had to work half as many weekly hours again more than the other guys in their street in other industries, who are also unlike them, more than likely on 40 hours plus overtime.

This is where the main problem with the job today lies and originates, when drivers sat back, bent over or both, and watched their overtime terms being snatched off them after the 80s
So now these boasting drivers would have been taking home half as much again with these excessive hours, IF they were on a proper pay structure, in terms of overtime rates and how they are calculated after how many hours,… like their neighbours still are in that street .

For instance our hourly rate differential at the moment, between basic and overtime rate is now down to about a derisory 50p an hour, due to a badly thought out pay raise structure, ie… our basic rate going up but overtime rate not.
It was still only about a quid more before that, which was bad enough (not including weekend work which is about 2 quid an hour extra) AND it starts after 50 hours not 40.

So, to keep on thread, …That aint going to get potential new drivers exactly clamouring to obtain their licences is it.

[ovlov_jay]

That’s why I’ll never work on hours Rob. Not unless it’s at least £10 an hour with time and a half after no more than 11 hours. I’ve never driven an artic for nmw, and after 15 years I’m not planning on starting now. I take roughly £580 for 60 hours and 2 nights out. It’s not great, but I spend around 30 hours a week sat around while other people unload my containers. As you say, look at what you do for your wages, and local container work is the only way I can justify the crap wages I get paid

[robroy]

OVLOV JAY:
That’s why I’ll never work on hours Rob. Not unless it’s at least £10 an hour with time and a half after no more than 11 hours. I’ve never driven an artic for nmw, and after 15 years I’m not planning on starting now. I take roughly £580 for 60 hours and 2 nights out. It’s not great, but I spend around 30 hours a week sat around while other people unload my containers. As you say, look at what you do for your wages, and local container work is the only way I can justify the crap wages I get paid

Ironically one of the good jobs I mentioned was for a firm in your area Essex, just outside Colchester, I had my truck home based up here for about 10 years, I was the only Northern driver they had, but the owner retired.
The pay rate comparison with up here was about 3 quid an hour or so more then, with many bonuses and side perks …which are a bit thin on the ground up here.

I work for a local firm now, and recently voluntarily cut my hours down on this job, partly because I was downbeat with haulage in general, (more ■■■■■■ right off actually ) but also because I felt I was not making enough for what I was doing compared with previous jobs…which on the face of it sounds a paradox bordering on stupid when fewer hours equals less pay , but you get my drift.

Still doing 55 to 60 hours in 4 and a half days, but happier doing less with longer weekends at home.

[robroy]

Juddian:
Looking to recruit lorry drivers?

Is this an attempt to put lots more cheap disinterested incompetent licenece holders onto FTA/RHA fleets, by making the job out to be something it isn’t.

Or could it be wondering how to recruit those fine young men and women who had childhood thoughts of becoming lorry drivers, by providing them with a recognised skilled vocation well rewarded and with the emphasis on skill and enthusiasm.

If its the former, then the present regime is doing sterling work dumbing the job down to lowest common denominator, specifying lorries that a buffoon could drive (select D press the loud pedal) with the simplest of dumbed down work, such as back on bank and hand your keys in you naughty child the go an sit in the corner (all thats missing is the KKK hat with D writ large on it to wear), then wondering why an increasing number of buffoons forms too many of the applications.

If its the latter then hows about having a bloody rethink, stop the dumbing down, provide a vehicle that needs a lorry driver to drive, a job that needs a bit of nous to do, then those who can do the job can earn the respect that used to go with the job when i still had dark hair.
The lorry driver does not need a simple press D and the loud pedal because for the very simple fact he IS a lorry driver and can and always will do the job better than the machine.

The lorry driver needs one main tool for his/her job, a lorry specified properly for the job it is intended to do, one size does not fit all, it doesn’t need to change gear for them (though some prefer that option so give them the choice, but stop forcing lorry drivers to be dumbed down to the most incompetent fool’s level), it doesn’t need to brake for them, nor control the distance they travel from the vehicle in front, nor does it need to warn them if they happen to cross what the vehicle perceives to be a white line.

There are still jobs out there where its possible, but increasingly difficult as real transport management vanish, to take a pride in the job, but increasingly with dumbing down and the emphasis now on bling/image with a weird pride being taken in a lorry’s badge or the BHP number loudly stated on the side, though this is possibly the natural progression for those who believed having the right named trainers or latest phone when they were in puberty gave them some sort of status.

There are still young men and women who want to be lorry drivers, just the same as i and hundreds of thousands more did when we were still in short trousers, these are the people our industry needs, those who will turn up for work on time every time whatever the day may hold in store, who want to learn the job and be treated and renumerated as a transport professional when they have earned their spurs.

I could go on for hours boring the socks of everyone, and there are many who will not agree with me.

Thing is we’ve been dumbing the job down for the last 15 years or more and look where its got us, those committed competent drivers are coming through but in small numbers.
More and more drivers who have loved the job for decades can’t wait to hang their keys up for the last time, ask yourselves why and whether it might be worth a rethink while there might still be time.

One small suggestion for a kick start, hows about not leasing the one size fits all vehicle the salesman tells you you need , hows about asking the lorry driver doing the job properly day in day out (not sick notes) what might be best for the job, the suggestion might not actually be for the latest fully auto bling thing with the right willy waving bhp badge…and the lorry drivers choice might not necessarily be what attracts numbums to seats, but do you want numbums or lorry drivers, if you want more numbums and walking sick notes then carry on the race to the bottom, if you want a resurgence in lorry drivers maybe think again?

Mixed feelings on this post Juddian mate.
I do agree about the dumbing down, where driving a truck today is no different to driving a much longer modern top range extra long Mondeo that bends in the middle, unlike the days of it being chalk and cheese between a car and something like a Mk 2 Atki with a Gardner and David Brown (For benefit of younger drivers, nothing to do with horticulture and vintage farm tractors ) which can and does result in recruiting dunces and ■■■■ whits to becoming truck drivers.
Thankfully a lot of young lads are still competent good drivers today, but going back to old style trucks? no thanks.
The Genie is out of the bottle Juddian, you would not get Phantom fighter pilots on Planenet advocating to go back to Spitfires and Hurricanes, …but I know what your point is mate.

[juddian]

No i wasn’t suggesting dusting down the blueprints for Scammell Crusaders (though i’d have one again in a heartbeat) or Foden S80’s and Rolls/■■■■■■■■ Fuller Roadranger and Eaton Twin Splitters and starting new production lines up, just that the dumbing down is accelerating and if they want to attract the right people, ie those enthusiastic about learning to be lorry drivers, with all the skills knowledge and competence that entails, then automating the job ever further is only bringing the finish line of the race to the bottom ever closer.

If they are happy to just get ever more compliant but wholly incompetent and hugely unenthusiastic numb bums on seats, and TBH that does seem to be what is desired now (why?), then they are going the right way about it…ironically the dumbing down has the opposite effect on the the skilled lorry drivers out there and disillusions them as they are forced to work to the level of the most incompetent fool the company can find, its happening everywhere and i mean everywhere , what i can’t work out is why the company’s fast breeding managements can’t see this…its almost EU like in its stupidity, it aint working so we’ll have more of the same until it does work.

[robroy]

Juddian:
No i wasn’t suggesting dusting down the blueprints for Scammell Crusaders (though i’d have one again in a heartbeat) or Foden S80’s and Rolls/■■■■■■■■ Fuller Roadranger and Eaton Twin Splitters and starting new production lines up, just that the dumbing down is accelerating and if they want to attract the right people, ie those enthusiastic about learning to be lorry drivers, with all the skills knowledge and competence that entails, then automating the job ever further is only bringing the finish line of the race to the bottom ever closer.

If they are happy to just get ever more compliant but wholly incompetent and hugely unenthusiastic numb bums on seats, and TBH that does seem to be what is desired now (why?), then they are going the right way about it…ironically the dumbing down has the opposite effect on the the skilled lorry drivers out there and disillusions them as they are forced to work to the level of the most incompetent fool the company can find, its happening everywhere and i mean everywhere , what i can’t work out is why the company’s fast breeding managements can’t see this…its almost EU like in its stupidity, it aint working so we’ll have more of the same until it does work.

Maybe not a Crusader but would consider a 143 or even a 90s Turbostar.
That’s the whole point, many are happy to be fully compliant robots, where initiative only means to them a word they can not spell (hope I’ve spelt it correctly )
Some can not change a ■■■■ bulb without complying with the rules and making 6 phone calls for management authorisation.

As for the dunces and ■■■■ whits that would not have been capable of driving a truck in the old days, so they slip through the net today with modern trucks and become the toss pots we all have to share the road with.?
Sort out the selection process to a better calibre, and ease the rule where being an absolute ■■■■ end does not disqualify you from holding a Class 1 as it is in the present situation.

And as for your point of us becoming one of them types because their ■■■■ poor habits rubbing off?.. Not a chance in hell in my case.

[juddian]

robroy:

Juddian:
No i wasn’t suggesting dusting down the blueprints for Scammell Crusaders (though i’d have one again in a heartbeat) or Foden S80’s and Rolls/■■■■■■■■ Fuller Roadranger and Eaton Twin Splitters and starting new production lines up, just that the dumbing down is accelerating and if they want to attract the right people, ie those enthusiastic about learning to be lorry drivers, with all the skills knowledge and competence that entails, then automating the job ever further is only bringing the finish line of the race to the bottom ever closer.

If they are happy to just get ever more compliant but wholly incompetent and hugely unenthusiastic numb bums on seats, and TBH that does seem to be what is desired now (why?), then they are going the right way about it…ironically the dumbing down has the opposite effect on the the skilled lorry drivers out there and disillusions them as they are forced to work to the level of the most incompetent fool the company can find, its happening everywhere and i mean everywhere , what i can’t work out is why the company’s fast breeding managements can’t see this…its almost EU like in its stupidity, it aint working so we’ll have more of the same until it does work.

Maybe not a Crusader but would consider a 143 or even a 90s Turbostar.
That’s the whole point, many are happy to be fully compliant robots, where initiative only means to them a word they can not spell (hope I’ve spelt it correctly )
Some can not change a [zb] bulb without complying with the rules and making 6 phone calls for management authorisation.

As for the dunces and [zb] whits that would not have been capable of driving a truck in the old days, so they slip through the net today with modern trucks and become the toss pots we all have to share the road with.?
Sort out the selection process to a better calibre, and ease the rule where being an absolute ■■■■ end does not disqualify you from holding a Class 1 as it is in the present situation.

And as for your point of us becoming one of them types because their ■■■■ poor habits rubbing off?.. Not a chance in hell in my case.

But thats me whole point, they’ve dumbed down the job so half wits can get through and companies increasingly wanting to employ them or use them via agency (by the way i’ve been a limper and know bloody good agency lads so this isn’t a pop at them), the main criteria now being who will do it cheapest, so providing a lorry a chimp could drive and dumbing the job down to that level is their answer to good driver recruitment, and then they wonder why its all gone ■■■■ up and they have half a yard full of wreckage at any time, you couldn’t make the bugger up.

No i won’t become a dumbed down either but do you know its increasingly difficult not to do so because memo man comes up with ever more memos the dumb need, its grinds you down.

Their answer to the problems, more managers more memos as i said its like the bloody EU.