robroy:
You say ‘Don’t bother with unions’ but you can say what you like, all I can say to reply to that statement is…All lads I know who work for Union firms are sure as hell on better pay, terms, and conditions to what I am, working for a non union firm, fact !..
Make of that what you will 
I did say they can still work at the right firm with the right lads as members Rob. As far as paying subs to a union in a company that does not recognise the union then it is completely pointless. The union will not be interested in doing anything for you as they are not getting enough in the way of membership Nos. Also they cannot / will mot negotiate you a better rate than the other lads. Very little point if they cannot give you anything other than advice. Any advice they gave you would have to be acted on by yourself regardless. If your company doesn’t recognise the union they certainly wont be acting on it.
Nowadays the majority of drivers and engineers alike apply for jobs on the current advertised rates, a union will not change that rate, Its take it or leave it. Look at the outcome of the sutton tankers lads and how the unions helped them out, look at the labour party with the backing of Unite, they miserably lost the election. They have very limited powers and influence in general.
If there’s any union like I’m used to - it will involve you not being offered any decent “contract” in the first place, because they are protecting their own positions at any “outsider’s” expense.
Get past that - and you’ve got the nearest thing to a decent job that can be had nowadays - but for the fact that Unions don’t actually have much power these days to achieve the things they might have heralded in the past, such as collective pay bargaining, increased holidays, and protection from management bullying.
Today you’ll often see Ex-Shop floor Union members acting as managers and so-called “driver trainers”, meaning nothing less than the Poachers have become the Gamekeepers, or the Foxes have been put in charge of the Henhouse. The long-term result of such a biased operation is that the firm goes from a healthy profit each year to a massive loss, and then cannot recover from that low point, simply because the managers are too concerned about keeping their own positions going as long as possible, rather than cutting losses for the wider business in a way that doesn’t slow the entire operation down.
Many ex union reps become managers/trainers is because they have communication skills, which is why they probably got elected in the first place.
My advice if you work for a company with a recognised union, join that union. Look at it as an insurance policy, especially at larger logistics company’s whose H&S/employment policies can be a nightmare, you may never need it but it’s there if you do. Also participate, vote and go to meetings, nothing worse than second hand rumours about what was agreed and why.
If you are on agency or self employed in most cases the union can only provide advice regarding issues you have, but they might not provide specific advice dealing with management attitude.
Join one. You won’t regret it.
Immediately you join, you get choices.
At the very least you get to vote about your own pay negotiations/terms and conditions etc. As has been said you also get the benefit of excellent legal services, should you need it.
If you wish to be more involved, you have that choice too. Union rep, shop steward or just an on-site contact - it’s entirely up to you…
If you don’t join, you don’t get a choice
I was very much anti-union, mostly because of the antics of Red Robbo and a few others but times have changed and unions have had to change with them
robroy:
UKtramp:
In the 70s and early 80s the Unions were strong and membership was essential and some jobs required you to be a member or you wouldn’t get in. Thatcher knocked the unions on the head and reduced their power to something of just a boys club. I used to be a strong unionist and agree that even today they have their place. However most companies where a union is still intact are very different nowadays. It all depends on the members themselves, unfortunately and this is not having a dig at anyone or any particular drivers, they simply do not stick together, the weak link in the chain is the members themselves. If you get a strong unionist membership then a union can work, nowadays this is rare therefore rendering the union as weak to the point of being useless. My personal opinion and that is what this is, is don’t bother unless your with a set of drivers and a company that recognise the union for what it is. Most stewards are in it simply to feather their own nests and I have even witnessed deals done to favor the company by persuading members what is best for them when in reality they are selling the members out. In short, don’t bother with unions as they only work in the right place and those places are as rare as a highly paid driving job. Unions unfortunately have had their day and it was when members stuck together.
A lot of what you say is true, most of the type of guys who I work with would not stick together for a better t.s & c.s, if you covered them in [zb] glue 
, but I carried on paying my Union subs mainly for legal assistance if I need it,.and help and advice whilst working for a firm who ain’t exactly known for their benevolence or favourable outlook towards their drivers.
You say ‘Don’t bother with unions’ but you can say what you like, all I can say to reply to that statement is…All lads I know who work for Union firms are sure as hell on better pay, terms, and conditions to what I am, working for a non union firm, fact !..
Make of that what you will
Yes, we all know lads who work for STOBARTS, WINCANTON, DOWNTON and MARITIME, they all have union presence, you must be on shocking terms if your lot can’t match them…
Darkside:
robroy:
UKtramp:
In the 70s and early 80s the Unions were strong and membership was essential and some jobs required you to be a member or you wouldn’t get in. Thatcher knocked the unions on the head and reduced their power to something of just a boys club. I used to be a strong unionist and agree that even today they have their place. However most companies where a union is still intact are very different nowadays. It all depends on the members themselves, unfortunately and this is not having a dig at anyone or any particular drivers, they simply do not stick together, the weak link in the chain is the members themselves. If you get a strong unionist membership then a union can work, nowadays this is rare therefore rendering the union as weak to the point of being useless. My personal opinion and that is what this is, is don’t bother unless your with a set of drivers and a company that recognise the union for what it is. Most stewards are in it simply to feather their own nests and I have even witnessed deals done to favor the company by persuading members what is best for them when in reality they are selling the members out. In short, don’t bother with unions as they only work in the right place and those places are as rare as a highly paid driving job. Unions unfortunately have had their day and it was when members stuck together.
A lot of what you say is true, most of the type of guys who I work with would not stick together for a better t.s & c.s, if you covered them in [zb] glue , but I carried on paying my Union subs mainly for legal assistance if I need it,.and help and advice whilst working for a firm who ain’t exactly known for their benevolence or favourable outlook towards their drivers.
You say ‘Don’t bother with unions’ but you can say what you like, all I can say to reply to that statement is…All lads I know who work for Union firms are sure as hell on better pay, terms, and conditions to what I am, working for a non union firm, fact !..
Make of that what you will
Yes, we all know lads who work for STOBARTS, WINCANTON, DOWNTON and MARITIME, they all have union presence, you must be on shocking terms if your lot can’t match them…
Depends how you interpret ‘‘Union presence’’, I can only speak about one of the firms you mention and I know of at least one depot that has virtually no Union presence as such, I have been told from a very reliable source.
You could say ‘‘my lot’’ have Union presence because me and only a couple of others are in a Union for one reason or another.
I said ‘Union Firms’, I obviously (or so I thought) meant firms with a strong and officially recognised Union presence, that have better t.s, c.s, pay and conditions than me.
If you want to refute that mate with your rolling eyes, crack on, but I can only talk from what I have been told, shown, and experienced.
You have obviously been told, shown, and experienced something different.
robroy:
Darkside:
robroy:
UKtramp:
In the 70s and early 80s the Unions were strong and membership was essential and some jobs required you to be a member or you wouldn’t get in. Thatcher knocked the unions on the head and reduced their power to something of just a boys club. I used to be a strong unionist and agree that even today they have their place. However most companies where a union is still intact are very different nowadays. It all depends on the members themselves, unfortunately and this is not having a dig at anyone or any particular drivers, they simply do not stick together, the weak link in the chain is the members themselves. If you get a strong unionist membership then a union can work, nowadays this is rare therefore rendering the union as weak to the point of being useless. My personal opinion and that is what this is, is don’t bother unless your with a set of drivers and a company that recognise the union for what it is. Most stewards are in it simply to feather their own nests and I have even witnessed deals done to favor the company by persuading members what is best for them when in reality they are selling the members out. In short, don’t bother with unions as they only work in the right place and those places are as rare as a highly paid driving job. Unions unfortunately have had their day and it was when members stuck together.
A lot of what you say is true, most of the type of guys who I work with would not stick together for a better t.s & c.s, if you covered them in [zb] glue , but I carried on paying my Union subs mainly for legal assistance if I need it,.and help and advice whilst working for a firm who ain’t exactly known for their benevolence or favourable outlook towards their drivers.
You say ‘Don’t bother with unions’ but you can say what you like, all I can say to reply to that statement is…All lads I know who work for Union firms are sure as hell on better pay, terms, and conditions to what I am, working for a non union firm, fact !..
Make of that what you will
Yes, we all know lads who work for STOBARTS, WINCANTON, DOWNTON and MARITIME, they all have union presence, you must be on shocking terms if your lot can’t match them…
Depends how you interpret ‘‘Union presence’’, I can only speak about one of the firms you mention and I know of at least one depot that has virtually no Union presence as such, I have been told from a very reliable source.
You could say ‘‘my lot’’ have Union presence because me and only a couple of others are in a Union for one reason or another.
I obviously (or so I thought) meant firms with a strong and officially recognised Union presence, that have better t.s, c.s, pay and conditions than me.
If you want to refute that mate with your rolling eyes, crack on, but I can only talk from what I have been told, shown, and experienced.
You have obviously been told, shown, and experienced something different.
Union membership in the transport industry on the whole doesn’t work, you will always find examples where it is worthwhile. You have to weigh up the cost of membership and it’s benefits. I would rather put my subscription to Netflix and additional data on my phone and actually see something for my money. Everyone is different and as stated, the likes of Stobart, Wincanton etc all have a union presence and it isn’t working for them. The haulage industry dictates the drivers rates, some pay more, some pay less. It is up to you as a driver to seek better paid work and no union will do that for you or have any influence as a member to help you. It only leaves advice and pointless meetings where you agree the terms and conditions set out by the management. No concessions are usually made for union members other than the pre agreed terms set by the meetings held behind closed doors to which you are not privy to. It’s all smoke and mirrors.
There is always the URTU if you don’t want to pay subs to any political party. But, as with any union you can opt in or out to the Labour party donation. And the fact that a company doesn’t recognise your union wont make any difference if you’re at an industrial tribunal, the barristar the union pay for will make them sweat.
I really don’t know why more drivers aren’t in a union, every unionised place earns more, has less accidents, better hours and tends to be a better place to work, just look at Scandinavia, you certainly don’t hear as many complaints from drivers there.
I would not necessarily agree a unionised place of employment has better t & c’s.
Some unions seem to be more company friendly than others.
A lad I work with, used to work at Tesco Middleton and he believes the reason Tesco gave Stobarts (Widnes) their work, Doncaster and closed Enfield was because they were T&G (Unite) sites. with excellent t’s & c’s.
Sixties boy:
I would not necessarily agree a unionised place of employment has better t & c’s.
Some unions seem to be more company friendly than others.
A lad I work with, used to work at Tesco Middleton and he believes the reason Tesco gave Stobarts (Widnes) their work, Doncaster and closed Enfield was because they were T&G (Unite) sites. with excellent t’s & c’s.
So the Unions were ‘at fault’ because they had previously managed to get good terms for the employees there eh.? 
and if they had been presumably badly paid on draconian t.s and.c.s that would be better ?
Maybe the employees were better off without that sort of employer.
That logic and train of thought is ■■■■ unreal . 
I have the Unite Driver Care Package you never know when you need. It also covers loss of licence. Go on the site and check the benefits. In times like these it will come in handy.
cooper1203:
As the title really im wondering what unions there are as I have seen several official bodies mentioned on here in various posts. also can one deduct the payment that goes to the labour party from the dues. Whilst I will more than likely join when I get offered a contract as I believe the union is there for the benefit of all and therefor should be funded by all I also have strong political views.
Join the Union that already represents the guys in the place you work.
If none already there or agency then I recommend Unite.
Even if they cannot do collective bargaining for you they offer many other benefits and backup as already mentioned that you couldn’t ordinarily afford if you get into a bit of hot water or get pushed about for no good reason.
Forget the clown that keeps repeating his same old mantra of it ain’t worth bothering with cos it is well worth it.
Yes it is sad that Thatcher in her disgusting Neoliberal stupidity decided to destroy unions so ordinary working people could work harder and longer for less so as to enable the elite to get über wealthy again but even today union membership is still the best option.
Now with the social policies of the EU going into the Brexit dustbin I think ordinary working people are going to be really screwed by the band of Ultras that are in power at the moment so I have no suggestions for your political donations if you are not happy with Labour.
Hurryup&wait:
Even if they cannot do collective bargaining for you they offer many other benefits and backup as already mentioned that you couldn’t ordinarily afford if you get into a bit of hot water or get pushed about for no good reason.
For your very own reasons, it isn’t a union membership that you need, it is a new job you should be looking for.
I agree train drivers are well paid, the standards required are high and the only people providing the training are the train companies, not some training company which only teaches you to pass a test.
As stated earlier all the major logistics companies have union presence, some have better t’s & c’s than others, many of the better rates of pay are in areas were supply of drivers is low and demand is high.
Tony101@:
Monkey241:
I grasped what he said.
We have Unite at our place… about as much use as ■■■■ on a fish… but that’s probably down to personality.
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Just a point I am a senior workplace steward
And if I may say so a successful one. And more to the point the men are the union in your workplace and your stewards are you voted them in and like I do research education and most of all knowledge is power
I didn’t vote him in.
You are correct …knowledge is power.
So is the character to apply it
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Someone above mentioned URTU. Is anyone on here a member or has anyone ever had any dealings with them? I’ve seen them mentioned before, have they much clout compared to the other unions and so they have a large number of members?
Was briefly a member of URTU in early 2000’s small drivers union, very few none drivers but we did have warehouse colleagues at our depot. Used to be in all the big bakeries, Allied, Hovis and Warbartons.
The head steward at our depot was good, got all the add on bits added to basic and wouldn’t take management bull. Got things like a union learning facility installed on site.
Doesn’t matter how big or small the union is, it is the support and backing of the members in the branch/ depot that matters. If the majority stand up they will win, if management divide the members they will win.