Unfortunately there isn’t much that is beyond the remit of a manager/supervisor in transport… (I may write a book one day…) and is that is why when I sort myself out financially, I am aiming to get back behind the wheel.
Every company will have, (or at least should have), a drink or drugs policy, and people having to carry these out is part of this.
I hate it.
Along with most of the H+S bull we deal with daily, if people had common sense and a bit of nous to start with we wouldn’t be in this position.
The other thing is, if employee A comes and says he think employee B is pickled you can’t ignore it. And we all know how British workers stick together…
DonutUK:
Refusing to do the tests is not an option if we want to keep our jobs…all managers on site are trained to do them. Some had a short “in house” course others, like me, had a full days training with the laboratory company who we contract to do the lab testing and supply the kits.
The new kits that are coming out are sealed so that the donor ■■■■■■ straight into it, seals it, then we just turn a “key” that operates the testing strips…much more hygienic than the other option!
If the driver refused to do the test then we would have to decide whether to escalate to the Police. Likewise if someone was positive on the breath test, but insisted on driving home…we would be calling the Police before they left site.
Ok we are never going to agree on this bud, I still think it’s a step too far, an exceeding of authority, and a humiliation towards the driver.
As I said, personally I would refuse for all the reasons I have stated, as well as self pride, and then I would INSIST you called the Police after you had accused me, to take that accusation to it’s furthest point.
I would stop short at suing for deformation of character, as I think that is about as over the top as you wanting to analyse my ■■■■ sample. 
Out of intrest has anyone with a backbone flatly refused any of this, for some/all the reasons I have pointed out.
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but this has amazed me, and I feel strongly about it after doing this job for so long, that we have come down to this level of intrusion to deliver a load of bog rolls or whatever on a truck. 
Judging by the lack of response on here by many, it looks like I am on my own here on this.
What a sad indictment on this job!
robroy:
DonutUK:
Refusing to do the tests is not an option if we want to keep our jobs…all managers on site are trained to do them. Some had a short “in house” course others, like me, had a full days training with the laboratory company who we contract to do the lab testing and supply the kits.
The new kits that are coming out are sealed so that the donor ■■■■■■ straight into it, seals it, then we just turn a “key” that operates the testing strips…much more hygienic than the other option!
If the driver refused to do the test then we would have to decide whether to escalate to the Police. Likewise if someone was positive on the breath test, but insisted on driving home…we would be calling the Police before they left site.
Ok we are never going to agree on this bud, I still think it’s a step too far, an exceeding of authority, and a humiliation towards the driver.
As I said, personally I would refuse for all the reasons I have stated, as well as self pride, and then I would INSIST you called the Police after you had accused me, to take that accusation to it’s furthest point.
I would stop short at suing for deformation of character, as I think that is about as over the top as you wanting to analyse my ■■■■ sample.
Out of intrest has anyone with a backbone flatly refused any of this, for some/all the reasons I have pointed out.
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but this has amazed me, and I feel strongly about it after doing this job for so long, that we have come down to this level of intrusion to deliver a load of bog rolls or whatever on a truck.
Judging by the lack of response on here by many, it looks like I am on my own here on this.
What a sad indictment on this job!
+1
To be honest the times these tests are carried out are very rare. I have never had anyone would refuse to do one, if it showed negative then that is a big middle finger to the management.
If it shows positive then you have to decide what to do, with regard to police.
And I guess if you haven’t got the backbone to refuse to save your licence, you certainly aren’t man enough to refuse a test.
Darkside:
And I guess if you haven’t got the backbone to refuse to save your licence, you certainly aren’t man enough to refuse a test.
I think I get it that you don’t wholeheartedly agree with all this.
Tried to break down your last paragraph and there’s a couple of double negatives in there somewhere, can you explain it.
Sorry, maybe just me 
, I’m a bit slow this morning, had a night out with a few pints, but keep your breathyliser in your pocket…I’m off work this week. 
robroy:
Darkside:
And I guess if you haven’t got the backbone to refuse to save your licence, you certainly aren’t man enough to refuse a test.
I think I get it that you don’t wholeheartedly agree with all this.
Tried to break down your last paragraph and there’s a couple of double negatives in there somewhere, can you explain it.
Sorry, maybe just me , I’m a bit slow this morning, had a night out with a few pints, but keep your breathyliser in your pocket…I’m off work this week.
Wasting your time mate with this one, (suspected Downton informant) 
" Man enough to refuse a test " Get a grip FFS
DonutUK:
DHL run site?
I can confirm that if a driver, visiting or otherwise, has an accident on our site (DHL run for Sainsburys), they will be required to undertake a drug & alcohol test. I can also confirm that co-codamol will test non negative for opiates on the pee dip test, requiring an independent technician to attend site (up to 2 hr wait) to collect a further evidentiary sample for lab testing. This will take anywhere from 3-10 days to come back depending on how busy the lab is.
Co-codamol is a well known tool for a few days off…Tescos at Daventry had people selling them in the warehouse a few years back to colleagues who would “accidentally” nudge a pallet in the racking, requiring a drug screen…
The contradiction these people spout is breath taking in their stupidity.
2 examples, 1 of which happened to me the other to a colleague while working at a (then) DHL site.
I had a bump out on the road and, as required, called it in to the office. Blah, blah you will have to do the accident form and drug test when you get back.
Why when I get back?
In case they are factors in the accident.
If they MAY be a factor in the accident don’t you have a duty of care to find out before you let me continue?
No it will be determined when you get back.
The other instance the guy went right up to his duty time limit waiting for the tester to get to site. Was told he had to stay but replied I can’t do that my hours are up.
You will have to.
I can’t do that and stay legal.
You will have to do this and not enter it on your card.
So are you instructing me to make a false time record?
No.
So what can I do and stay within your company rules and the law of the land?
er■■?
I going home now test me in the morning when I get in if it really is that important.
robroy:
DonutUK:
Refusing to do the tests is not an option if we want to keep our jobs…all managers on site are trained to do them. Some had a short “in house” course others, like me, had a full days training with the laboratory company who we contract to do the lab testing and supply the kits.
The new kits that are coming out are sealed so that the donor ■■■■■■ straight into it, seals it, then we just turn a “key” that operates the testing strips…much more hygienic than the other option!
If the driver refused to do the test then we would have to decide whether to escalate to the Police. Likewise if someone was positive on the breath test, but insisted on driving home…we would be calling the Police before they left site.
Ok we are never going to agree on this bud, I still think it’s a step too far, an exceeding of authority, and a humiliation towards the driver.
As I said, personally I would refuse for all the reasons I have stated, as well as self pride, and then I would INSIST you called the Police after you had accused me, to take that accusation to it’s furthest point.
I would stop short at suing for deformation of character, as I think that is about as over the top as you wanting to analyse my ■■■■ sample.
Out of intrest has anyone with a backbone flatly refused any of this, for some/all the reasons I have pointed out.
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but this has amazed me, and I feel strongly about it after doing this job for so long, that we have come down to this level of intrusion to deliver a load of bog rolls or whatever on a truck.
Judging by the lack of response on here by many, it looks like I am on my own here on this.
What a sad indictment on this job!
Don’t think we disagree to be honest. I agree that in all but the most serious circumstances it is totally over the top…have had to D&A someone for a 12 inch scratch to paintwork…and because of their medication they came back non-negative, had to stand them down until the lab tests proved it was only medication…oh, and they had to be reassessed before being allowed to drive again…2 weeks off on full pay, for a scratch that cost less then £100 to fix…absolute madness!
Unfortunately I don’t get a choice about whether to do it or not…
And hence one of the reasons why I am looking at getting back behind the wheel rather than the desk…
DonutUK:
robroy:
DonutUK:
the maoster:
Sainsbury’s. Apparently he kissed a stack of pallets whilst manoeuvring, Co policy they tell me.
DHL run site?
I can confirm that if a driver, visiting or otherwise, has an accident on our site (DHL run for Sainsburys), they will be required to undertake a drug & alcohol test. I can also confirm that co-codamol will test non negative for opiates on the pee dip test, requiring an independent technician to attend site (up to 2 hr wait) to collect a further evidentiary sample for lab testing. This will take anywhere from 3-10 days to come back depending on how busy the lab is.
Co-codamol is a well known tool for a few days off…Tescos at Daventry had people selling them in the warehouse a few years back to colleagues who would “accidentally” nudge a pallet in the racking, requiring a drug screen…
Whoa !..Just hang on a minute here before we go any further.
Are you seriously telling me that drivers actually allow themselves to go through the humiliation of undergoing a urine test, by some jumped up self important security guard…or anybody for that matter.
That is just one step away from the rubber gloved finger up the arse,…or are they readily accepting that now as well.
I knew things were bad in terms of drivers just rolling over, but Jeeez H Christ.
You guys must be on some extra good rate of pay to take all that lying down, (or in the pre mentioned scenario bending down.)
Maybe it’s just me. 
Part of accepting the site rules when they come on site. They can of course refuse to take part, but in the case of a visiting driver, they would be banned from site and reported to their employer for their failure to take a D&A test…in the case of a DHL employed driver, they would probably end up without a job.
A lot is to do with the companies perception of liability i.e. if a driver who is drunk or drugged up has an accident on our site which we have knowledge of, then we allow them out onto the public roads without making some attempt to check, we may be considered “liable” in the event of them wiping out a family in a car…
Not saying I agree with it…but that is how the company sees it and why they have this policy.
Oh noes! I would be banned from the site and they would run and tell my boss!
Same as with in cab searches, some clown from an office isn’t getting to test me for anything, if they believe I’m wrecked or have stolen something, get the police.
Completely with robroy on this one, anyone who bows down to this type of pish obviously has no self respect or dignity.
A.
robroy:
Darkside:
And I guess if you haven’t got the backbone to refuse to save your licence, you certainly aren’t man enough to refuse a test.
I think I get it that you don’t wholeheartedly agree with all this.
Tried to break down your last paragraph and there’s a couple of double negatives in there somewhere, can you explain it.
Sorry, maybe just me , I’m a bit slow this morning, had a night out with a few pints, but keep your breathyliser in your pocket…I’m off work this week.
I hate it and the fact that this is where the industry/country is now. My old man would spin in his grave if he heard half of it.
What I was trying to say was given the option of a works test, or a police test, anyone would take the work one and stick the middle finger up if it came back negative.
Darkside:
robroy:
Darkside:
And I guess if you haven’t got the backbone to refuse to save your licence, you certainly aren’t man enough to refuse a test.
I think I get it that you don’t wholeheartedly agree with all this.
Tried to break down your last paragraph and there’s a couple of double negatives in there somewhere, can you explain it.
Sorry, maybe just me , I’m a bit slow this morning, had a night out with a few pints, but keep your breathyliser in your pocket…I’m off work this week.
I hate it and the fact that this is where the industry/country is now. My old man would spin in his grave if he heard half of it.
What I was trying to say was given the option of a works test, or a police test, anyone would take the work one and stick the middle finger up if it came back negative.
I’d take the police one, if they even showed up, since I wouldn’t be hammered or MWI at work.
A.
Adonis.:
I’d take the police one, if they even showed up, since I wouldn’t be hammered or MWI at work.
A.
So would I, as I said.
If some non Police individual approached me with a b.liser or drug test paraphenalia, they would be warned that it would be hanging out of their arse if they come any nearer…or do they think they have the power of arrest for threatening behaviour also.
And just to add a bit of mischief into the mix, I actually do regularly take Co.codamol for back pain and migraines. 
Where I work we had a letter stating random drugs and alcohol tests will be carried out from now on, members of staff are fully trained and capable legally to do this and refusal to provide a sample will result in disciplinary action,
A few month later a car hit my trailer, no big deal but on arrival at my first drop out comes the testing kit etc, on my mind was simply,
1, I don’t do drugs and haven’t had a beer
2, I need the job
3, this is ■■■■■■■ humiliating
4, I need the job
Gave both samples and went on my way, not a nice experience though, (guilty until proved innocent was the feeling I had from the suits)
On the pee sample bit though, they gave me a spongy swab thing to put in my mouth and keep there for 20 mins, then put it in a sealed container that gave an instant result so not even suspended on full pay awaiting results, on the plus side no one was staring at me peeing into a cup
Drug test was a swab and into another sealed container, instant results and bang there’s your keys have a good night, ■■■■■■■■■■
robroy:
Adonis.:
I’d take the police one, if they even showed up, since I wouldn’t be hammered or MWI at work.
A.
So would I, as I said.
If some non Police individual approached me with a b.liser or drug test paraphenalia, they would be warned that it would be hanging out of their arse if they come any nearer…or do they think they have the power of arrest for threatening behaviour also.
And just to add a bit of mischief into the mix, I actually do regularly take Co.codamol for back pain and migraines.
And in fairness so would I. Though I ain’t going anywhere near anyone’s arse with a breathalyser.
I haven’t been tested yet but if that situation arose…
However I have a pride for myself, and the job, (like you Robroy) that simply doesn’t exist in a large number of drivers.
DonutUK:
If the driver refused to do the test then we would have to decide whether to escalate to the Police. Likewise if someone was positive on the breath test, but insisted on driving home…we would be calling the Police before they left
Having flatly refused to take their ego massaging test this would be the part I would be looking forward to. Would they actually call the police, especially after slipping in to the conversation about being held against my will.
These places really are a disgrace now with their double standards and pompous attitude.
yourhavingalarf:
You mean?..
There’s actually a test for stupid?
Apparently they’re running flat out but still can’t make enough kits.
I don’t believe what has happens to this industry, iff that’s what it’s called to day?
Why be blackmailed in to this drug testing nonsense, has any HGV driver ever been proved positive?
Are bus drivers under the same rules? Crain drivers the list goes on?
Re cab search? As I said to a “security bod” one day, get a police man/woman with a search warrant and
reason for search, iff not ime off,…I drove out…and wasn’t bared.
Sad…very sad.just my opinion mind,guess I don’t move with the times?
Stanley Knife:
DonutUK:
If the driver refused to do the test then we would have to decide whether to escalate to the Police. Likewise if someone was positive on the breath test, but insisted on driving home…we would be calling the Police before they left
Having flatly refused to take their ego massaging test this would be the part I would be looking forward to. Would they actually call the police, especially after slipping in to the conversation about being held against my will.
These places really are a disgrace now with their double standards and pompous attitude.
Pompous attitude sums them up.
This nasty lorry driver isn’t doing as we tell him, arrest him now!
Total pond life the lot of them, I’m also in the same boat as robroy in being highly cynical every time ‘insurance’ or ‘health and safety’ is wheeled out as the devine answer to everything.
A.
Sounds like a disciplinary action to me…mind how you go…hja ha
On a similar note, i delivered to a Sainsburys depot in birmingham…when i pulled up the barrier was up, so stopped at the line…when i had booked in and got given a bay number, i set off, but by this time they had lowered the barrier, which came down below my field of vision…i knocked the bar off…swiftly put it to one side ( it did have quick release bolts on it and no damage ) often happened a lot in my opinion…so went into the gate house, and they said they will call for a supervisor, ( by this time i was due a 45, thought i could get on a bay to have it there ) anyway, supervisor was called, and i was told i would have to fill in a claim form, then have a drugs test ( urine ) and my dna taken…so phoned the company and told them i will not do the test, and will not allow them to take dna, only police are allowed to do that. After some phone calls to and fro…i said i will do a urine test, as it was part of all sainsburys depots requirements for anyone on their sites. However they had to call a doctor ( £90 ) from wolverhampton ( at their expense ) and after 1hr 50min he arrived…followed me to the toilet, and waited outside for my sample ( security checked the toilet beforehand, and flushed it )…my test came up negative…you should have seen the exitement on their faces…this was down to the drugs i take ( 5 a day ) for my heart problem, and all duly logged with DVLA…never seen any such nonsense in all of my driving career, blocking off one entrance( theres only two anyway ) a 3 hour delay, and i get a piece of paper to say all was good to go, mind you, they gave me top clearance and an immediate unload…so was ok, and on my return, i noticed the barrier had been reconnected…an absolute waste of time and energy had been wasted for no particular reason.
Btw, there was no DNA extraction, or even a mention of it, just the gatehouse bods overreacting as per usual.
Some have mentioned security checks, I’ve got mixed feelings on that one tbh.
If some officious type arsey security guard came with the ''I’ve reason to believe you’ve stolen etc… ‘’ ■■■■■■■■,
I would just tell him to ■■■■ off he was not getting in my cab, and as before wait for the Police to turn up.
Tbf, usually most of these guys nonchalantly say, something like ‘‘Do you mind if I look in your cab drive for the benefit of that ■■■■ camera’’ …or words to that effect, as that IS part of their job, so fair do.s.
However I still do not see that giving a driver an intrusive virtual medical examination is part of their job.
robroy:
Some have mentioned security checks, I’ve got mixed feelings on that one tbh.
If some officious type arsey security guard came with the ''I’ve reason to believe you’ve stolen etc… ‘’ ■■■■■■■■,
I would just tell him to [zb] off he was not getting in my cab, and as before wait for the Police to turn up.
Tbf, usually most of these guys nonchalantly say, something like ‘‘Do you mind if I look in your cab drive for the benefit of that [zb] camera’’ …or words to that effect, as that IS part of their job, so fair do.s.
However I still do not see that giving a driver an intrusive virtual medical examination is part of their job.
I’ve never had any jumped up gateclown accuse me of stealing anything, what gets me is there’s no point of searching my cab if there’s no reason to suspect me stealing anything so by searching it they’re saying I have or am likely to have. That’s not forgetting that the cab wasn’t searched when I came in so they don’t know what was there before hand. There’s quite a lot to a cab so what’s the point in a search if it isn’t thorough?
As you say if they DO genuinely think you’ve stolen something that’s a police matter.
Thread drift much
A.