Zetorpilot:
I have a feeling I read somewhere a whle back that Germany was going to trial Scandinavian style 25.25m combinations (for example A-frame w+d with 45’ trailer). Did this not come about, or was it discontinued?
Can’t give you any firm dates on this but plans to trail these rigs are definitely in the pipeline.
Inselaffe:
Zetorpilot:
I have a feeling I read somewhere a whle back that Germany was going to trial Scandinavian style 25.25m combinations (for example A-frame w+d with 45’ trailer). Did this not come about, or was it discontinued?Can’t give you any firm dates on this but plans to trail these rigs are definitely in the pipeline.
If they do it would need to be a euro reg not just a German one to make it worthwhile ?.In which case a six wheeler rigid in drawbar spec might turn out to be a better buy than a unit for owner driver subbing work.Bring it on but the anti road transport brit government would probably put up it’s usual objections to protect rail freight.
Inselaffe:
Can’t give you any firm dates on this but plans to trail these rigs are definitely in the pipeline.
Just found these 2 clips on YouTube, so looks as though these trails are already running in a couple of areas:
Inselaffe:
Inselaffe:
Can’t give you any firm dates on this but plans to trail these rigs are definitely in the pipeline.Just found these 2 clips on YouTube, so looks as though these trails are already running in a couple of areas:
Only 40 tonnes allowed not the possible 60 because of so called ‘road damage’ 
.On 8 axles 
and what is effectively two seperate trucks with the added efficiency of getting rid of an unproductive tractor unit 
.More like the brit government has put it’s objections in early.
Ooops - post in error
I have had an A frame wagon & drag, I wouldn’t say they’re easier to reverse than an artic, there’s much more potential to get it wrong, yes you can put them in a space you wouldn’t dream of getting an artic, especially if you have a prime mover with a long overhang, but you need to know what you’re doing.
Carryfast:
…demount A frame wagon and drags make more sense for both handling lots of weight without axle overload issues and for more capacity on their longer overall loading space.
Sorry carryfast but de-mount bodies on W/D`s are Gods way of showing his has a sick sense of humour!! 
I had a wagon and A frame drag for a few years and loved it and,as previously stated by others, when you have cracked the reversing they are great. Its like riding a bike, once its clicked in your head then its there for life.
But de-mount bodies!!! 
Twisted legs, boxes parked or lined up back to front,the wrong way round or out of alinement,using a lump hammer to loosen off the legs or securing pins, forward and inch, back another couple etc etc. and usually in the middle of a (zb) yard, peeing down with rain in the middle of the night
The only bit of advise i could offer with regard to reversing would be to imagine that the draw bar itself is coupled to your arse, then in your head, use that to steer it with!!!
Does that make any sense??.. No, probably not but try it (not literally!!) it may help. 
bullitt:
Carryfast:
…demount A frame wagon and drags make more sense for both handling lots of weight without axle overload issues and for more capacity on their longer overall loading space.Sorry carryfast but de-mount bodies on W/D`s are Gods way of showing his has a sick sense of humour!!
I had a wagon and A frame drag for a few years and loved it and,as previously stated by others, when you have cracked the reversing they are great. Its like riding a bike, once its clicked in your head then its there for life.
But de-mount bodies!!!
Twisted legs, boxes parked or lined up back to front,the wrong way round or out of alinement,using a lump hammer to loosen off the legs or securing pins, forward and inch, back another couple etc etc. and usually in the middle of a (zb) yard, peeing down with rain in the middle of the night
Something like that Definitely often in a yard in the middle of the night on night trunking but also some sunny evenings and mornings at the start and end of a run 
.But I could usually put the wagon under and get it loaded on the back as easily and quick as coupling up an artic.Picking up the second box with the trailer took a ‘bit’ longer though but usually we left those with their trailers and just swapped the lot like an artic But luckily for me they were always parked the right way round because they were either on the bank or backed at the side of the yard and the securing locks were fine if they were kept well oiled.
bullitt:
Sorry carryfast but de-mount bodies on W/D`s are Gods way of showing his has a sick sense of humour!!I had a wagon and A frame drag for a few years and loved it and,as previously stated by others, when you have cracked the reversing they are great. Its like riding a bike, once its clicked in your head then its there for life.
But de-mount bodies!!!
Twisted legs, boxes parked or lined up back to front,the wrong way round or out of alinement,using a lump hammer to loosen off the legs or securing pins, forward and inch, back another couple etc etc. and usually in the middle of a (zb) yard, peeing down with rain in the middle of the night
This is one of the main reasons for the demise of the classic A frame in Germany. Most of the parcel firms (DHL, DPD, etc) are tending to use tandems these days as they are easier to shove under demount bodies.
Inselaffe:
bullitt:
Sorry carryfast but de-mount bodies on W/D`s are Gods way of showing his has a sick sense of humour!!I had a wagon and A frame drag for a few years and loved it and,as previously stated by others, when you have cracked the reversing they are great. Its like riding a bike, once its clicked in your head then its there for life.
But de-mount bodies!!!
Twisted legs, boxes parked or lined up back to front,the wrong way round or out of alinement,using a lump hammer to loosen off the legs or securing pins, forward and inch, back another couple etc etc. and usually in the middle of a (zb) yard, peeing down with rain in the middle of the night
This is one of the main reasons for the demise of the classic A frame in Germany. Most of the parcel firms (DHL, DPD, etc) are tending to use tandems these days as they are easier to shove under demount bodies.
There still seems to be plenty of demount A frames coming over here from the continent running for those firms but it’s surprising to hear that the A frame is facing a demise in Germany as it’s the common home of that type of wagon and if they go from there then they’re not safe anywhere probably.But maybe if the new Scandinavian type ones get accepted they’ll get much more popular.But it seems that the new generation of European drivers are getting like most of the British ones and don’t like to reverse anything with more than one point of articulation as,unlike their scandinavian counterparts,those versions under test in Germany are stated as having a lock to only allow them to pivot at one point when reversing ?.But if the regs do eventually allow 25 metres + 60 tonner outfits then it’s possible to imagine outfits made up of six wheeler rigids pulling 45 footer semi/composite trailers using a two axle dolly ? and/or proper 5 axled A frame type trailers as the tandem idea can’t handle high gross weights as good as a good A frame outfit can.
Carryfast:
those versions under test in Germany are stated as having a lock to only allow them to pivot at one point when reversing ?
That’s a load of bollox. Another example of media bods not knowing what they are talking about.
These “Gigaliners” are reversed just like a normal A frame, with 2 points of articulation (think about it - otherwise it would be impossible to reverse )
In fact, they will be easier to reverse than a standard A frame (the longer the trailer, the easier the reverse).
Inselaffe:
Carryfast:
those versions under test in Germany are stated as having a lock to only allow them to pivot at one point when reversing ?That’s a load of bollox. Another example of media bods not knowing what they are talking about.
These “Gigaliners” are reversed just like a normal A frame, with 2 points of articulation (think about it - otherwise it would be impossible to reverse
In fact, they will be easier to reverse than a standard A frame (the longer the trailer, the easier the reverse).
Looking at the video again they could have been talking about a steering rear axle like the old Italian trailers had and which were locked up for reversing ? not the drawbar coupling being locked up and just pivoting at the turntable which I think I’ve probably confused that statement with.If had been done like that it might have been possible to reverse it like a b doubles pivot to suit the drivers who can’t reverse the real thing (like British driving test examiners for instance ) ?.But the ‘Gigaliner’ name sounds like a typical piece of media hype to make it sound like something out of the ordinary considering that the Scandinavians have been using those type of wagon and drags for years.I also reckon that you’re right about the extra length making it easier to reverse than a standard length drawbar trailer.Let’s hope the Germans can push the idea through into the Euro regs but it’s pointless at 40 tonnes.
Trev_H:
I once took my A frame outfit for mot at the local test centre I offered the examiners a try at it, one did but gave up after a few tangles !
The 1st time i had to move an A-framed one i was told when reversing,treat it like a rigid…steering bogie faces the same way as the steer axle on unit…seemed to work ok