I have heard from David Kirk, Tony Kirk’s son. Sadly Tony, who is now 78, has had the lower part of his leg amputated and is convalescing in hospital. I am sure all those reading this thread, who remember Tony will join me in wishing Tony the best of good fortune and hope he is soon home again.
Heard from Alan Graham. He was one of the youths that had gone on the course at Darlington Driver training that got him a fork lift licence, warehouse training and driver training for car licence and test. He had come with us for the work experience part of the course and at the end we gave him work as a porter, and he stayed with us two years.
He tells me he is now working at Thorn lighting as a fork lift driver. So there is a case of someone that gained out of the warehouse/Forklift driver course at Darlington Driver Training, sponsored by us and funded by the then Government.
Barrie Hindmarch:
Hi Carl.
The guard dog I spoke of was sixteen and a half year old when sadly I had to have him put to sleep. As you said he was a very reliable asset as far as security was concerned and very few people ever entered our premises without him giving mouth as my Father would have said. Because of the high value traffic that we handled our premises were frequently checked at night by the police .One night my mother was awoken by the dog barking and duly told my father who went out into the yard to discover a young policeman cowering behind the diesel tank and the dog just about to bite him. It was obvious that the young man had never checked our premises before and my father lost no time telling him in future to do his check from the street. I found later that the regular Bobbies had not told the lad about the dog as a prank.
As you know like your business we operated Bedfords , indeed my Father bought one of the first Bedfords in the area at Kelvin Hall Glasgow just after the change of name from Chevrolet. Our move to Mercedes came about with the demise of Bedford following the Government awarding the vehicle supply contract to Leyland Daf. I found the Mercedes vehicles to be very reliable , an example being an 814 7.5 tonne E913 KPY which had over 1 million miles on the clock when we sold it and still had the original clutch which when you consider the stop start nature of our business speaks volumes . I can honestly say that when due to non availability of a suitable Bedford chassis I made the worst purchase of my business career when I bought the dreaded Commer Commando SUP 586M.
Hi Barrie
We had a Commer Commando, HBR484N, we inherited it when we bought D.G.Craig’s Darlington fleet. It was about two years old and quite smart with a large Marsden fibreglass luton body. WE used it mostly on Craig’s work that we took over and was quite a good vehicle. Its surprising that certain vehicles are alright on some use but not others, We had quite a few Dodges, Seddon, etc with Perkin’s 6.354 engines and they all did quite good work in rigid form, with the exception of a new Leyland Boxer we bought which as with most Leyland products was dreadful. However all Perkin’s powered vehicles achieved poor fuel consumption, compared with the Bedford counterparts and were not as reliable as Bedfords.
However we bought two new Dodge 24 ton GTW tractor units YPT630L and YPT631L and they were complete failures, with both having new engines within the first year and problamatic during their life with us, They must rank amongst the biggest failures we bought along with three new Leyland Linx with the fixed head engines. There are many factors that put us out of business but had we not had the misfortune to invest in Leyland vehicles and these two Dodges, I have no doubt we would have been much stronger to fight the opposition who eventually destroyed us by continually price cutting,
Carl
Going back to my grandfather, he told me when he was a teenager he got a job as a car mechanic, at a garage in Newcastle, Well I can think of no=one less suited to this type of job, as he had no practical mechanical aptitude at all. With this ‘job’ he got his first opportunity of driving a car.(In those days there was no driving tests and he never took one.
So long before the first world war he was driving. For someone of such long experience of driving and someone who started a haulage business, he certainly was a poor driver. Dad said that his father never had a clue how to reverse a car, and was a danger on the road.
With regard to his regular journeys over the Pennines to Blackpool, I remember my grandparents often chose not to go by car, and instead travelled on The Primrose, or Wilkinson’s from Sedgefield who also ran daily services to Blackpool. I do remember in my faintest memory travelling with my grandparents and stopping in Lancaster and them pointing out to me a house, where a doctor had murdered his wife (Or a similar story).
The last time he went by car was just after the small section of Motorway M6 was opened )(The Lancaster bi-pass). Telling us later he described he entered the new road and saw a sign 'Birmingham; and said to my grandmother that they were not going to Birmingham and there and then turned round and went back and found there way back through Lancaster. When we explained to him, how dangerous it had been to turn on a Motorway and leave on the wrong side of a dual carriageway, he decided never to drive over there again. However he continued drive weekly to Newcastle for many years until speaking to a friend who often joined him, after the death of my grandmother, told us how worried he had been travelling with him, and admitted that on their last journey my grandfather had not seen the roundabout at Chester Le Street and driven straight onto it and had to be directed as he reversed off.
My father and I had the then problem of convincing him that he must no longer drive. We took the cowards way out and rang Rex Preston, from our insurance brokers, Preston-Powell and asked him to come over and explain to my grandfather that he couldn’t get insurance cover for him because of his age. That was it and he stopped immediately and within a few days sold his car.
Once bitten, thirty years on I had the same problem with my dad. Dad always had poor sight, and in fact had great difficulty in reading the reg no on his test. He was registered as partially sighted and still insisted in continuing to drive. One day he nearly ran into the back of a wagon and just missed as my mother shouted at him. Laughing he said he had seen a heard of horses running towards him. That was it and we both put our foot down, and on the condition, my mother took up driving again and drove him he would pack in driving. About a year later his licence needed renewing and I saw him hiding the renewal forms, so he could apply for a new licence. ‘What do you want a driving licence for?’ I asked him. ‘I need one he said’, but taking the form off him, I tore it up.
Myself, It was strange at first when they took my licence off me, but as time goes by, you adapt, and now I must admit when I see how others drive, I am pleased I no longer drive. It is a difficult thing to admit your driving days are over, but I honestly reccomend anyone to take no chances.
hiya,
Carl,the Doctor from Lancaster was my parents and grandparents GP his name
was Buck Ruxton he did murder his wife and threw her dissected body all over
Scotland but made the mistake of parcelling her body in the local newspaper
making tracing him much easier, it was at the time of my birth and have often
wondered did he diagnose my impending arrival, I do know he was my Mams GP.
thanks harry, long retired.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Carl,the Doctor from Lancaster was my parents and grandparents GP his name
was Buck Ruxton he did murder his wife and threw her dissected body all over
Scotland but made the mistake of parcelling her body in the local newspaper
making tracing him much easier, it was at the time of my birth and have often
wondered did he diagnose my impending arrival, I do know he was my Mams GP.
thanks harry, long retired.
Hi Harry,
Its wonderful how we remember things from our youth I must have only been five or so. Remember nothng else of the journey.Strange remember that from all those years, but cant remember yesterday
Carl
When i was young in the early 1950’s whenever we went on a journey in a car down the A1 dad told me to watch out for the Alfred Bell vans. We never traveled far till we passed one as they seemed to be on constant convoy between Newcastle and London. I remember best the Bedford O models perhaps because that is what we were running at the time, but also they seemed to run a fair few Albions. Here is a Seddon, in black and white which is such a shame, because their green and red vans certainly stood out on the road. i suspect it will bring back memories to many who lived in the North east and Newcastle
From almost starting in business my Grandfather had done removals, and some fairly long distance with his Ford model Ts, but it wasn’t until the latter part of the 1930s he bought his first furniture van, a Morris. As soon as dad was old enough he tried to persuade his father to buy a removal van, as they were using platforms and roping and sheeting. Quite difficult to pack a removal squarely onto. (Something I was taught and will come back to later)
On his trips to Newcastle, somehow my grandfather made friends with Mr Marks, the Managing Director of Alfred Bell. Marks told granddad of a removal van (I think a Commer) that was for sale. It had a very big body and Marks said Alfred Bell would have bought it if they had a spare ‘A licence’ as they had more work than they could cope with and were being unable to persuade the Northern Traffic Area to increase their fleet size. He told granddad 'Buy it and I’ll keep it in work as a sun-contractor of Alfred Bell.
For some reason he didn’t and liking his independence was not keen in sub-contracting work.However within a year, with dad’s constant pressure he did buy the Morris which was to become our first van. I would have loved to have seen a photo but had to rely on Dad’s description, saying for its day it was large, with a very big luton, and a large tailboard for tailboard loads. Painted in our cream and brown colours it served as the template of all our future vans and looking at Alfred Bell’s writing and lay out it is easy to see their influence. From day one it was in constant use as our removal business developed, and we never did any work ever as sub contractors for any other company.
Carl Williams:
When i was young in the early 1950’s whenever we went on a journey in a car down the A1 dad told me to watch out for the Alfred Bell vans. We never traveled far till we passed one as they seemed to be on constant convoy between Newcastle and London. I remember best the Bedford O models perhaps because that is what we were running at the time, but also they seemed to run a fair few Albions. Here is a Seddon, in black and white which is such a shame, because their green and red vans certainly stood out on the road. i suspect it will bring back memories to many who lived in the North east and Newcastle
I can remember Alfred Bell when their depot was in Higham Place in Newcastle, They then bought a firm out at Seaton Burn called Geo Watt Ltd then they built a new garage & warehouse which is still there to-day being used as a vehicle repair & paint shop, Alfred Bells moved to Killingworth to much larger premises, They were then taken over by a firm called TW? or a name similar to that, The building is now a cash & carry called Lowerys, Happy long gone days, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Carl Williams:
When i was young in the early 1950’s whenever we went on a journey in a car down the A1 dad told me to watch out for the Alfred Bell vans. We never traveled far till we passed one as they seemed to be on constant convoy between Newcastle and London. I remember best the Bedford O models perhaps because that is what we were running at the time, but also they seemed to run a fair few Albions. Here is a Seddon, in black and white which is such a shame, because their green and red vans certainly stood out on the road. i suspect it will bring back memories to many who lived in the North east and NewcastleI can remember Alfred Bell when their depot was in Higham Place in Newcastle, They then bought a firm out at Seaton Burn called Geo Watt Ltd then they built a new garage & warehouse which is still there to-day being used as a vehicle repair & paint shop, Alfred Bells moved to Killingworth to much larger premises, They were then taken over by a firm called TW? or a name similar to that, The building is now a cash & carry called Lowerys, Happy long gone days, Regards Larry.
Hi Larry,
Yes they were originally in centre of Newcastle that you entered under an arch on the High Level, Long gone.
Carl
When I was young, not only did I enjoy looking at other Removal contractor’s vans on the road, but I enjoyed seeing where their depots were, particularly the old ones where sometimes they had developed from the times of horses. Dad used to park in a car park, when we went shopping in Darlington, on Saturday afternoons and I could observe Haward & Robinsons vans parked up. Similarly at Blackpool we used a car wash next to Shaw Depositories in Whitegate Drive.
Once I passed my driving test I had the opportunity to see for myself. Like with vehicles, modern premises have no appeal, as they all seem the same, and I am pleased I lived in a time when individuality was king.
Just thinking,
Considering my dad had driven many more miles than the average driver during his lifetime he was terrified driving a car in ice or snow.
Often, if the slightest hint of ice, when he ran me to school at Durham nearly every morning,for five or so years he took me in Bedford SB vans. Going down from his home to the garage at Marmaduke Street he would get everyone organised with the morning’s work, and come back in order to get me to school for 8.45 with a Bedford, saying that he felt safe in them.
I suppose the problem was made worse that in those days the road down towards the bridge in Spennymoor was cobble stones, and several accidents has happened , some fatal, where cars had skidded.
Even considering his cars had included a Rolls Royce and several Mercedes,talking to him in the weeks before his death at 86, he always said how he loved the Bedford SBs and enjoyed driving them better than any other vehicle.
Photos of one of our Leyland 350FGs passing through the centre of Durham City.
We had three of these FGs with Marsden luton van bodies all identical, and similar ages, so without seeing reg no, cannot tell which this was, however in their day they were smart and very handy little vans.
Sure it will bring back memories of the days we passed through the market place towards Elvet bridge. Buses and large artics had no other route, and not too much road space for this little FG illustrates the driving skills needed by a driver with a 40ft trailer
Carl Williams:
Photos of one of our Leyland 350FGs passing through the centre of Durham City.We had three of these FGs with Marsden luton van bodies all identical, and similar ages, so without seeing reg no, cannot tell which this was, however in their day they were smart and very handy little vans.
Sure it will bring back memories of the days we passed through the market place towards Elvet bridge. Buses and large artics had no other route, and not too much road space for this little FG illustrates the driving skills needed by a driver with a 40ft trailer
hiya,
Must be ancient, but do remember the point duty policeman doing his thing on
his podium in the market place Durham City, can anybody remember when he
alighted and hung his truncheon up I first saw him there when riding shotgun
with my Dad during the school holidays, pretty sure he was still there when I
starting driving in the late fifties. Hand signals in those days the palm of your
left hand on the windscreen if you was going straight ahead, happy days Eh’.
thanks harry, long retired.
harry_gill:
Carl Williams:
Photos of one of our Leyland 350FGs passing through the centre of Durham City.We had three of these FGs with Marsden luton van bodies all identical, and similar ages, so without seeing reg no, cannot tell which this was, however in their day they were smart and very handy little vans.
Sure it will bring back memories of the days we passed through the market place towards Elvet bridge. Buses and large artics had no other route, and not too much road space for this little FG illustrates the driving skills needed by a driver with a 40ft trailer
hiya,
Must be ancient, but do remember the point duty policeman doing his thing on
his podium in the market place Durham City, can anybody remember when he
alighted and hung his truncheon up I first saw him there when riding shotgun
with my Dad during the school holidays, pretty sure he was still there when I
starting driving in the late fifties. Hand signals in those days the palm of your
left hand on the windscreen if you was going straight ahead, happy days Eh’.
thanks harry, long retired.
Hi Harry,
On the morning I passed my driving test, on returning to our garage in Marmaduke Street Spennymoor, Dad was waiting on the pavement outside on the street. My grandfather had taken me on the test and as he got out, I was told to stay in the car and get myself through to Adams & Gibbon in Claypath Durham to collect some Bedford parts, and that was my first journey through where our van is passing, up to the Market Place where , like you were saying the Policeman is in his box directing the traffic and turn right along Claypath.
In those days that was the way we went to Sunderland (The main road) and only way. From that first journey, I wouldn’t like to count the number of times I had driven through there, and a big part of me learning to drive after I had passed my test, with many memorable experiences. I travelled with all types of vehicles.
My dad was driving a Rover 80 in my first days of driving, and often used it. One day I had gone through to Adams and Gibbon and there was a covering of snow, and was returning, through the Market place, over Elvet bridge, turning right at the corner where the Royal County Hotel was located on left, passed the Three Tuns Hotel and then Fowler and Armstrong, The Austin garage on the left and the top of Elvet where the South Road forked right towards the New Inn, on the corner was a fish and chip shop. I took the corner, too fast I now understand and the next thing I realised the car had spun round and I was travelling back again towards the Three Tuns. The car had spun right round, and I was very lucky no other vehicles were travelling the other way as the car had spun right round across the road.
Another experience for me happened when I was passing the point almost exactly where our van is in the photo travelling the same way. In late 1969 we had bought a new long wheelbase Landrover Truck/cab and once again it was mid winter and we had suffered heavy snow falls. I don’t know whether it is because the road in the centre of Durham is so narrow surrounded with high buildings but Durham never seemed to suffer heavy snow n the roads, but the shops were very high and the roofs were very sloped. I found this out the hard way as suddenly I heard a massive noise like thunder as a massive amount of snow fell from one of the roofs onto the Landrover. With no visibility I daren’t stop in case someone ran into my rear and the wipers, small as they were managed to clear a slit on my windscreen, that I could glance though, and I continued on my journey to Spennymoor.
Arriving back at Marmaduke Street I got out of the Landrover surrounded by all who were there looking at the cab top. It was bent and battered and seemed to be just OK where my head had been. That snow had been heavy to do that damage to the cab roof and I had been lucky as a bit more might have stoved the roof in on me
I spent 8 of my school years in Durham City, I love the place and it has one way or another taught me so much
Carl
Hi Carl.
When I saw the post with the photo of one of your vans about to cross Elvet bridge it set me thinking as to how we managed to deliver to the shops in that area. Immediately behind your van was Saddler St. and adjacent to the steps shown in the photo was where deliveries were made , though no longer there the delivery point for M&S and Woolworths was just up from those steps .Saddler St. was open to tour coaches going up to the cathedral so you can imagine the chaos that prevailed .We were told by the Police to get on the kerb to allow vehicles to pass ,which was no mean feat considering how high kerbs were in the ancient city. The comments about “The man in the box” made me smile ,although the main through road passed through the market place he always seemed to keep the traffic flowing and although we stopped to deliver at some unbelievable places he just got on with his job. A previous post mentioned when he was on TV , I can also remember the programme which featured the policewoman who took over from him . I believe that she was from Wolsingham and was previously a nurse at Bishop Auckland hospital.
regards Barrie.
Barrie Hindmarch:
Hi Carl.
When I saw the post with the photo of one of your vans about to cross Elvet bridge it set me thinking as to how we managed to deliver to the shops in that area. Immediately behind your van was Saddler St. and adjacent to the steps shown in the photo was where deliveries were made , though no longer there the delivery point for M&S and Woolworths was just up from those steps .Saddler St. was open to tour coaches going up to the cathedral so you can imagine the chaos that prevailed .We were told by the Police to get on the kerb to allow vehicles to pass ,which was no mean feat considering how high kerbs were in the ancient city. The comments about “The man in the box” made me smile ,although the main through road passed through the market place he always seemed to keep the traffic flowing and although we stopped to deliver at some unbelievable places he just got on with his job. A previous post mentioned when he was on TV , I can also remember the programme which featured the policewoman who took over from him . I believe that she was from Wolsingham and was previously a nurse at Bishop Auckland hospital.
regards Barrie.
Hi Barrie,
I had several set tos withnthe police doing office removals in the centre of Durham.
One was on Saddler Street. I think it was the YMCA office we were moving and it was on the third floor above a shop and another office,. Memory doesn’t help recalling all the details but I parked on pavement a few yards past the shop to allow traffic going up to the Cathedral to get passed. Which they could do with difficulty> I think I was carrying a filing caninate down to be et by a policeman complaining I was blocking the pavement. When I explained that if I kept the pavement clear, buses etc could not pass, he said I should find a wider place to park. As I said I cannot fully remember what happened but we were there for at least another two hours and i never moved the van
Carl
I recall in the 50s delivering in Silver Street with a Bedford A type flat it was ■■■■■■■ down at the time and I had 10 cartons of canned goods for a shop , I cant recall the name, When I was confronted the the local Bobby who informed me that I couldn’t park there, So me being a cockey little bugger I said well why do the shop owners order goods when the driver is not allowed to park so as to make a delivery, He just walked away & I thought to myself how in the ■■■■ did he get a job as a policeman I ask you ■■?, Regards Larry.
Hi Carl.
The shop in Silver Street that the previous post refers to was probably a high class grocers called Greenwells .It was about half way down on the right as you left the Market Place and the only legal way to make a delivery was to wheel the goods down on a sack barrow. One of the products that we delivered there was bacon (before the advent of compulsory refrigerated vans) which was wrapped in sackcloth bales and as I remember was damned heavy and very difficult to carry on the sack barrow. I usually dragged the bale to the tailboard ,stuck my shoulder under it and staggered off down the street. However on one occasion the bale was far too large and heavy for me to do this so I stopped right outside the shop, hopped out and dragged the bale into the shop only to find on my return to secure the tailboard a huge Bobby who gave me a good bollocking and told me to get the wagon moved sharpish.I moved on thus allowing the traffic to flow through Durham again and that was the last I heard of the incident.I wonder if today’s policemen would be as tolerant and understanding?
Regards Barrie
In case anybody is interested Eddie Worthington is alive and kicking, although he hasn’t been well of late. He is recuperating at his Static caravan in ■■■■■■■■ I called round today to see him as he has not been on this site for ages. I think he has become pee’d off with all the FAIRY STORIES that have appeared on this thread and I for one agree with him. What do other W.H. drivers think. Come on air your views. Barrie Hindmarch: Eddie sends his regards. While on the subject I think I owe you a few thank u’s. I came to you looking for employment in mid 60’s and was turned down each time. Had you given me a job I don’t suppose I would be living the affluent lifestyle that I now have. Come on you drivers let’s hear some true stories and not the make-believe ones that have been put on this thread in the last year or so. Regards Ronnie.