That explains a lot. Presumably the drivers will have left the paperwork for one another in the bed & breakfast area, and our lot could ring and leave messages there etc. I had wanted to use our Sheffield depot and have tractor units based there and employed Sheffield drivers, and fully supervised by our manager there.
Carl Williams:
Here are three photos from 1959 of HTH882 meandering its way through the traffic in Spennymoor high Street, up the top near to the bridge. Prior to the building of the bypass and ‘Mad Mile’, I had forgotten the volume of traffic passing through the centre of Spennymoor, in the days when bus travel and the number of service busses were so prevalent.
HTH882, built in 1953 was the third of our petrol SB passenger chassis, and in this case the pantechnicon body was Built by Spurlngs of Edgware who in 1948 had built and exhibited our cattle truck on a Bedford 5 tonner ‘O ‘Model in the Commercial Motor Show at Earls Court. (Photo on this site a few weeks ago). It was built like a battleship, and much heavier than it’s sister SB s few months older built by Marsden. HTH remained with us till the advent of Plating and Testing and 14 years old.
The three petrol Bedford SB’s we ran were very big van for their day (1700 cu ft.), and in fact were amongst the biggest removal vans being operated in the early 50’s which gave us a real advantage while quoting for the larger removals as we could accommodate with one van whereas the competition were needing to use two.
Hi Carl
I can remember all three Bedfords CDJ, NUP and, best of all, HTH. As I’ve said in previous posts I did many miles in her with Uncle Jim up and down to Leeds every day during school holidays never letting us down. You were right about it being heavier than the others. Two people would struggle to lift the tailboard and close the rear doors because of the weight of them alone. One thing that always worried me was having a puncture as the spare wheel was at floor height in a locker behind the passenger seat and headboard. I would have thought that getting the wheel out without it falling on them and killing them that ifting it back up nearly 4ft would have. Fortunately we never had a puncture so never had the pleasure of trying this out. I was sorry to see it sold in the mid 60’s to Don Clegg to give him further service and I think it was replaced by RPT440D or MPT692D.
Now, talking about old petrol Bedfords… I’ve finally got round to finding a photo of our 1947 Bedford in it’s original livery Normans of Manchester when it was a few months old
as well as a photo of what it looks like now. Sorry about the livery. Carl if you wish to use the photos on other sites please do so.
Hope your mother is getting better Peter
Hi Peter,
So nice to see your Bedford in a proper livery, and with the name of what used to be a very reputable removal company! I remember coming across Normans when I was very young and we did some work with them. If my memory was correct their vans were red, It is difficult to tell in black and white, but was it in their colours when you bought it.
With reference to HTH I had forgotten where the spare wheel was kept, but the memory comes back now. I remember CDJ had two fuel tanks on, one on each side, 26 gallons each. When it pulled in the front of Marmaduke Street and filled up one side and then turned round to and reversed up to fill up the other side. When the one tank emptied you had to stop and turn the other tank on. As that was not so good in a diesel as you would have got an air lock, they put the tanks both on one side with a pipe between each so the spare tank drained into the main tank from 4479PT onwards until they got the idea of cutting the ends off the two tanks and welding them together. However the old petrol SBs got about 12 mpg.
Did you ever travel down to Leeds with LPT the 1950 Bedford OB that pantechnicon that dad bought off Sawley Gill from Durham? When Smart and Brown gave us the Leeds run to Atlas lamps newly opened Leeds depot the first van to be put on was the 1946 Bedford O model 3 tonner GPT. However the loads to leeds were about 5 ton average and GPT was a little too small as the loads got larger. Dad took about two years getting the cheapest price and ordering what was to be 4479PT and Adams and Gibbon supplied the total vehicle using Marsden to build the body (All future vans we dealt with Marsden directly) and the total build process took about a year. So he bought LPT as a stop gap, and it was never painted appart from plain cream. At the time I was at boarding school and in every letter i asked had he painted LPT, but from the day it was bought it never was off the road. However had I been there and not at school I would have made sure it was painted and lettered. When 4479PT eventually arrived LPT was sold and HTH went on the Leeds run. Altogether we ran to Leeds daily for 13 years.
TPT918 1956 Ford Thames 4D diesel Luton Van next to Wilkinson’s sedgefield AEC service bus.Photo take 1959 Stratton Street, craddock Street area of Spennymoor, In fact the bus is parked along the side of the former Clarence Ballroom known in 1959 as the Variety Club.
Within weeks of these photos being taken of TPT916 it turned over onto a telegraph pole on the A1 Great North road spennymoor destroying the body and only just missed impaling the cab , where the driver luckily sustained no injury clinging onto the steering. TPT918 had a completely new Luton body fitted
Inever thhought I would see a photo of the 4D again, and its surprising what turns up. Unfortunatly the person taking the photo was interested in the Wilkinsons bus and the bits of the Thames is a bi product, however I must be welcome for small mercies.
Carl Williams:
TPT918 1956 Ford Thames 4D diesel Luton Van next to Wilkinson’s sedgefield AEC service bus.Photo take 1959 Stratton Street, craddock Street area of Spennymoor, In fact the bus is parked along the side of the former Clarence Ballroom known in 1959 as the Variety Club.
Within weeks of these photos being taken of TPT916 it turned over onto a telegraph pole on the A1 Great North road spennymoor destroying the body and only just missed impaling the cab , where the driver luckily sustained no injury clinging onto the steering. TPT918 had a completely new Luton body fitted
Inever thhought I would see a photo of the 4D again, and its surprising what turns up. Unfortunatly the person taking the photo was interested in the Wilkinsons bus and the bits of the Thames is a bi product, however I must be welcome for small mercies.
With the exception the my Grandfather’s 1926 aprox Z model Morris, the Ford 4D had been our most troublesome vehicle ever until the times of Leyland Lairds, Boxers and Lynx when British Leyland showed the world how not to design and make commercial vehicles.
However in retrospect Ford needed praising for producing the first light weight cheap mass produced diesel commercial vehicle and for all its,problems the 4D always made its own way home and until about 1966 we never had a vehicle that needed the assistance of a tow of any description. Not bad 47 years by that time of vehicle operation. No doubt it was down to good high specification of maintenance inspired by my grandfather but also because of highly concientious drivers that took particular care of the vehicles.
The 4D remained in service with us till 1965, some nine years, and although the design left a lot to be desired with high vibration problems, that caused continual oil leaks from every part of the engine but was an inspiration to other manufacturers particularly Bedford to produce cheaper ranges of diesel commercial vehicles
Hello Carl. Hope all is better with your families. Just spotted this which should raise your pulse. Item No. 201037089471 on e-bay. Dig out the old brown and cream paint and away you go. Happy bidding. Jim. (Tongue in cheek!)
P.S. Sorry - Don’t know how to put a link up.
I see the two buses have United on them. I lived in Coundon, Doggy and Spennymoor from 1968/77, was those buses originally the OK Bus Co from Bishop Auckland? Just wondered.
beano111:
I see the two buses have United on them. I lived in Coundon, Doggy and Spennymoor from 1968/77, was those buses originally the OK Bus Co from Bishop Auckland? Just wondered.
The United bus depot was at Cockton Hill, round the corner from my Mam & Dads. I think its Arriva now.
jmc jnr:
Hello Carl. Hope all is better with your families. Just spotted this which should raise your pulse. Item No. 201037089471 on e-bay. Dig out the old brown and cream paint and away you go. Happy bidding. Jim. (Tongue in cheek!)
P.S. Sorry - Don’t know how to put a link up.
Hi Jim
stuff nightmares are made of.
Yes see photo below, more or less exactly the same as the one we had, except ours had shutter and tailboard at rear
Ours was slightly younger ‘H reg’. It ran in the flee along with the JU’s earlier incarnation the J2. After the initial problems we had with the J2, you would have thought we would have learnt our lessons, but we were assured BMC had sorted out all their problems and the JU was the solution. I think it was even worse than the J2. From memory I thin I collected the JU (On tradeplates) from somewhere down south, and I can never remember driving it again but in fairness both these two small, cheap diesels will have been flogged by their young drivers. Perhaps is a middle aged owner driver had bought either and nursed them over short journeys they might have been OK but even then I doubt it
beano111:
I see the two buses have United on them. I lived in Coundon, Doggy and Spennymoor from 1968/77, was those buses originally the OK Bus Co from Bishop Auckland? Just wondered.
The United bus depot was at Cockton Hill, round the corner from my Mam & Dads. I think its Arriva now.
Hi Andrew and Beano
United were part of Tne National Bus Company, until they were bought out by Cowie’s of Sunderland, who eventually changed their name to Arriva. Oeeiginally Cowie’s formed by Tom Cowie were car dealers (In fact Tom Cowie started as a second hand car dealer in the enterance to Sunderland from Durham and I can remember the garage being there). Cowies bought out main agencies throughout the country and made a lot of money in car leasing, which was a new thing in their day.
They bought out United, which was their first forte into buses, and continued taking over bus companies and when Tom Cowie retired they changed their name to Ariva and sold off the car sales side and no are one of the county’s main bus operators.
OK was an independent bus operator, that can trace their history almost as long as United. It was owned by the Emerson family, and had a large depot on North Bongate Bishop Auckland On bus deregulation they experienced great expansion particularly into the Tyne and Wear area, but eventually sold out to Northern (Like United another previously nationalised companu) that are now part of the Go Ahead group.
You are correct that United had a large depot at Cockton Hill Bishop Auckland now long gone, but their main depot was in Darlington which had a very large fleet of buses based there, but after denying that they would sell this valuable site in the middle of Darlington, eventually moved out and their hq is now at Sunderland. (Most of United’s buses had the HN, Darlington reg nos but Ariva is no longer a Darlington Company.
I know I might cause an argument, but in my pre driving teens, I always travelled reluctantly on United Bristols as I would have loved to travel on OK’s buses as most were either AEC or Leyland with beautiful bodies, clean and well presented and excellently maintained. As I said United were nationalised, always filthy, looked like the bodies were built by Odd Job Men. The MOT inspectors confessed that if it hadn’t been for problems of no buses on the road, they would give immediate GV9’s to most of the fleet. Finally although they used almost exclusively Bristol chassis which were powered by excellent Gardner engines, United chose not to use recommended oil and change oil and filters regularly as recommended, claiming it was cheaper changing engines than paying the extra oil costs which would have dramaticly increased the mileages achieved with the engines.
Thanks for that Carl, I remember taking an old OK AEC Double Decker on a driving Test, I had gone in to see them about getting a start, I left the Market Place and headed out towards Spennymoor giving it big licks down the steep bank and only dropping one gear as I flew over the top at the otherside, did the usual 3 point turn, down the box and up again. the old fella that took me out said my gear changing was perfect but that I didn’t need to fly down banks in order to get up the other side lol, still he did say I was to put myself through an PSV test and he would give me a start. I decided to stay on at Dent’s. I don’t think keeping to timetables would have suited me somehow.
As an after thought Carl, thought you might be interested to know that Aviva took over the running of all the old AEC, Bedford Buses (to name but a few) in Malta. They brought in the same type of bus that you see in any town in England, which is a pity because enthusiast’s used to go to Malta just to ride on the buses, I think it was because they had joined the dreaded EU and the old buses weren’t up to safety standards, which most of them weren’t lol, one owner driver I remember had painted across the front of his bus, “Only Jesus can save you”. The one big mistake Aviva ( if that’s how it’s spelt) made was to by some of the Bend-e-buses that Boris Johnson sold off in London, only to find they were useless in the narrow village streets.
Way back in about 1974-75 We had a removal to collect from Naples and bring back to Tyneside. I took one of our Leyland 350FGs with a 750 cu ft Marsden glassfibre Lutons and here is the evidence where we stayed overnight on the summit of the Alps in Switzerland
beano111:
Thanks for that Carl, I remember taking an old OK AEC Double Decker on a driving Test, I had gone in to see them about getting a start, I left the Market Place and headed out towards Spennymoor giving it big licks down the steep bank and only dropping one gear as I flew over the top at the otherside, did the usual 3 point turn, down the box and up again. the old fella that took me out said my gear changing was perfect but that I didn’t need to fly down banks in order to get up the other side lol, still he did say I was to put myself through an PSV test and he would give me a start. I decided to stay on at Dent’s. I don’t think keeping to timetables would have suited me somehow.
Hi Beano,
I think you made a good decision, because in those days the only services OK ran apart from the Bishop Auckland-Newcastle service, was their town service around Bishop Auckland and a service to Evenwood, and I suspect it would be one of these services you would have been put onto as a new driver, as the Newcastle services tended to be allocated to long serving staff. To spend all day driving an old double decker round Bishop Auckland or to Evenwood and back would have been sole destroying.
I know bus drivers have the advantage of not having to load and unload which, by comparison makes it an easy job, but oh the boredom of going round and round the same area! Also I don’t know what things are like today, but in those days drivers on service buses got very poor wages. You were home every night, true, but sometimes dreadful shifts and no overtime.
But speaking of bus drivers, my dad’s words come back to me. He was deliverng in Clayton Street in Newcastle, a load of multi drop new Pianos. It was in the fifties and the shop was adjacent to a bus stop, and he parked on it to unload, when a policeman came along and said, 'You can’t park there! ‘You look a fit young man’ was dads reply ‘I’ll pull along the end of the street and you and one of your mates can carry these along to the shop for me’, pointing into the back of the van packed full of pianos. ‘Now get yurself along and stop the buses further along the street if any come whilstI’m unloading because the passengers can walk and these buggars have to be carried’
Ha Ha brilliant tale Carl, you are right though , being in the same Country, let alone the same town every day would have sent me to an early grave. I think I would have been Divorced a lot sooner too. lol
The story didn’t end with disruption of the bus stop in Clayton Street Newcastle when he was delivering the pianos.
It didn’t take long for him to make his delivery and he pulled away making his way along to Grays Monument, to turn right down Gray Street, onto Dean Street and down across the swing bridge, but unfortunately just as he was at the monument the van stopped. It was one of our 1952-3 Bedford SBs with petrol engines and the float had stuck in the carburettor (Common fault on Bedford Petrol engines of that vintage). Dad had just opened the bonnet between the seats in the cab when he heard a tap on the door window. ‘Well you certainly can’t park here’. It was the same policeman. Dad explained he had broken down and couldn’t move. ‘You’ll just have to stand here and direct the traffic around me till I get it running again’ ,dad told him
Carl Williams:
The story didn’t end with disruption of the bus stop in Clayton Street Newcastle when he was delivering the pianos.
It didn’t take long for him to make his delivery and he pulled away making his way along to Grays Monument, to turn right down Gray Street, onto Dean Street and down across the swing bridge, but unfortunately just as he was at the monument the van stopped. It was one of our 1952-3 Bedford SBs with petrol engines and the float had stuck in the carburettor (Common fault on Bedford Petrol engines of that vintage). Dad had just opened the bonnet between the seats in the cab when he heard a tap on the door window. ‘Well you certainly can’t park here’. It was the same policeman. Dad explained he had broken down and couldn’t move. ‘You’ll just have to stand here and direct the traffic around me till I get it running again’ ,dad told him
Hi Carl, I think your Dad’s language may have been a bit more colourful!!!
Peter
Carl Williams:
The story didn’t end with disruption of the bus stop in Clayton Street Newcastle when he was delivering the pianos.
It didn’t take long for him to make his delivery and he pulled away making his way along to Grays Monument, to turn right down Gray Street, onto Dean Street and down across the swing bridge, but unfortunately just as he was at the monument the van stopped. It was one of our 1952-3 Bedford SBs with petrol engines and the float had stuck in the carburettor (Common fault on Bedford Petrol engines of that vintage). Dad had just opened the bonnet between the seats in the cab when he heard a tap on the door window. ‘Well you certainly can’t park here’. It was the same policeman. Dad explained he had broken down and couldn’t move. ‘You’ll just have to stand here and direct the traffic around me till I get it running again’ ,dad told him
Hi Carl, I think your Dad’s language may have been a bit more colourful!!!
Peter
That’s certainly true Peter.
I remember one day my mother saying to him, ‘Harry why do you shout and swear to the drivers like you do, you don’t need to’. Dads reply was that that was the only language they understood. And to be fair he wasn’t sexist as he treated the female drivers just the same. Today they would have been walking out and claiming off him for being sworn at.
But to be fair, he praised drivers when he thought they had done well, and always stood by them when they stood up for themselves against customers, particularly when they have packed their loads into loading docks, when they were deliberately been held up at delivery points where people were taking their time in unloading, and to be fair he rewarded all drivers with umpteen free cigarettes. He certainly like to encourage smoking. All in all, I never have heard a driver say they didn’t have a good boss.
Hi Carl,
In many of your previous posts you speak of your experiences with the BMC vehicles which from time to time were in your fleet.I remember well my experience with one of these. The van was a small luton and you came down to see if I could help out as there was a problem with the rear suspension and the van was lying over to one side Your fitter was out at another job, your dad away in London and the vehicle’s load was due in Altrincham the next morning. On checking I found that it had shed a shackle pin and in the process damaged the bush in the spring eye .As you did not carry these spares you took off to the nearest dealer which if my memory serves me was at Darlington.
While you were away I set about removing the damaged bush , on your return I fitted the new parts and the van was ready for work. You obviously told your dad what I had done because the first thing he did was to thank me and ask what he owed. When I refused telling him that it was only a small repayment for all the favours he had done for me over the years I thought that would be the end of the matter, however I was wrong. My wife had been passing by with one of my sons in the pram when your dad asked how old he was while at the time looking into the pram and slipping a large banknote under the cover. This was only discovered when she returned home and phoned to let me know, when I protested to your dad I was told to put it in the child’s money-box. Your point about your dad swearing at drivers made me chuckle , in my experience any driver being sworn at by your dad earned it. Regards Barrie.
Barrie Hindmarch:
Hi Carl,
In many of your previous posts you speak of your experiences with the BMC vehicles which from time to time were in your fleet.I remember well my experience with one of these. The van was a small luton and you came down to see if I could help out as there was a problem with the rear suspension and the van was lying over to one side Your fitter was out at another job, your dad away in London and the vehicle’s load was due in Altrincham the next morning. On checking I found that it had shed a shackle pin and in the process damaged the bush in the spring eye .As you did not carry these spares you took off to the nearest dealer which if my memory serves me was at Darlington.
While you were away I set about removing the damaged bush , on your return I fitted the new parts and the van was ready for work. You obviously told your dad what I had done because the first thing he did was to thank me and ask what he owed. When I refused telling him that it was only a small repayment for all the favours he had done for me over the years I thought that would be the end of the matter, however I was wrong. My wife had been passing by with one of my sons in the pram when your dad asked how old he was while at the time looking into the pram and slipping a large banknote under the cover. This was only discovered when she returned home and phoned to let me know, when I protested to your dad I was told to put it in the child’s money-box. Your point about your dad swearing at drivers made me chuckle , in my experience any driver being sworn at by your dad earned it. Regards Barrie.
Hi Barrie
It would have been our Morris FG 2 tonner DPT100B and it would be loaded with pyjamas for Banner textiles in Altringham, a job it did on average once per week. It was the first of 7 FGs we had (Morris BMC and Leyland). I suppose it was a peculiar time in those pre plating days especially as dad and his generation had been brought up with Bedfords that had been built suitable for 50% overload and I’m afraid to say the old 2 tonner certainly would be overloaded each time it went to Altringham,
I think, from our experience that the FG range was certainly one of the better produced by what became Leyland Redline, and overall we were quite happy with them. The problem was their after sales, particularly spares departments. Presumably I would have gone to Motor Delivery at Darlington for the parts and the fact they had them on the shelf was a miracle, as we they rarely had anything. Usually I had to go to Buists near the Coach Road in Newcastle. Buists was a very large garage in those days and even then more than often we had to order VOR. All the BMC agents we went for parts, in those days offered very poor service and Buists in particular were pathetic. I would have advised anyone to take sandwiches and a flask as usually there was a line of nearly 50 people waiting to be served.
Like yourself, perhaps we had been spoilt by Derek Rennie in the spares department of Adams & Gibbon Durham. Straight in and out without delay with usually the parts on the shelf.
I always remember saying to a Buists rep that called that I didn’t know whether it was the fact that they sold inferior vehicles or they employed such poor staff that it took so long to be served. Dad always said the availability of Bedford parts was because they tried to standardise where possible and often same parts were available on different models and by this stocking levels didn’t need to be so large, where as BMC designers started each model with a clean sheet and designed new parts for each model or update.In fact, with Bedford a few parts from the old ‘O models’ fitted in the TKs and SBs.
