Carl do you remember a Mr Thwaits at A&Gs I think he was in charge of new vehicle sales, Baxters that I worked for in the 50/60s era used to mention his name sometimes ■■?, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Carl do you remember a Mr Thwaits at A&Gs I think he was in charge of new vehicle sales, Baxters that I worked for in the 50/60s era used to mention his name sometimes ■■?, Regards Larry.
Hi Larry
No I didn’t because in my memory we always dealt with Durham branch, and for the life of me I cannot remember, today the commercial Sales Manager’s name, yet I can clearly remember his office which was situated opposite the car showroom on the right as you drove through into their yard from Claypath. I particularly remember going in there with Dad on one occasion when he caught us at the parts department, excited as he had just , that morning received details and an artist’s impression of the new to be released TK range. They also had a storage area for commercials up at Neville’s Cross near Ansa Motors.
Being a salesman for Bedford vehicles, particularly in the sixties was the easiest of jobs, as they sold themselves. This guy in particular wasn’t up to the job as we bought more new Bedfords from other dealers than we did from him, and if he had had any ability he could have had the sales for all the Bedford’s we bought, yet he still got the award of Uk salesman of the year, from Bedford for several years. This was mainly because of the water authority being based in Durham and buying lots of Viva based vans.
Carl
It must have been a good job to have, in the late forties, after the war as a commercial vehicle salesman. AS the manufacturers resumed production for the civilian market, there was no way that they could accommodate demand, with shortages and long order lists.
It was a period where my grandfather was handing over the running of the business to dad, and I suppose they were running things together, which must have been interesting as they never got on, but to his credit, granddad tended to give dad a free reign.
In 1946 they bought GPT, a Bedford ‘O model’ 3 tonner from Sherwood’s with a Luton body built by Sherwood and Wynn. I suppose Grandad must have been responsible for that, as dad never wanted to pay Noble who ran Sherwood and Wynn’s price for bodywork, but that could be down to the fact that dad in subsequent years bought but had to justify the cost to my granddad and grandma.
Immediately after the war they had ordered a Bedford OB passenger chassis, which was to enable dad to get his dream vehicle a very large (for its day) Luton van. This was eventually put on the road January 1948, and the story of this van, JUP, I’ll come back to shortly.
Spurlings the main London Bedford agents, who were famous for their coach building side, were to exhibit a Bedford 5 tonner in 1948 Commercial Motor Show. The chassis was specially produced for the show with a lot of chrome, particularly on the engine. Somehow my grandfather got in touch with the Managing Director of Spurlings and bought their exhibit. So this vehicle was exhibited in our familiar cream and brown livery (But unsignwritten to it returned to Spnnymoor). Somewhere I have a professionally take photo of this vehicle (after signwriting) when it arrived back from Earls Court to Marmaduke street, complete with chromium dip stick, which made it impossible to dip the oil.
All in all they ran 6 Bedford O models, before replacing the final pre-war 2 tonners with Bedford SB’s in the early fifties with petrol SB s.
I will return to the story of JUP (Photo attached). As I said it was ordered immediately at the end of the war and it was 1947 dad was unofficially told it had arrived at Sherwood’s Darlington. Going to see it, he was told that it was being sold to someone else. It seems those days that everyone met at Darlington Cattle Market and it was there that granddad met Sherwood’s sales manager. (I forgot his name, but as he will have long left this earth it is safe to say, that he was ‘on the make’ and had taken a bribe to sell the chassis/scuttle to someone else who hadn’t been visionary enough to order when we did’. What happened at that meeting I am unaware, but anyone who remembers my grandfather would know that he was persuasive, and very unwilling to part with a penny. Never the less next day dad got a phone call from Sherwood’s to say. ‘Your chassis is here’
Dad went across to Darlington with the cash to pay for it. ‘Your father said you will see me alright’ said the sales manager. I never found out what was said but one thing dad knew was that his father would not pay anyone a penny more that the list price, and I am almost sure he told the salesman to get stuffed.
I can never understand what happened next, but dad decided he wanted a standard Bedford Cab fitting. He got a price from Noble at Sherwood and Wynn at Hurworth, where the chassis was parked as they didn’t have the space at Darlington. At the same time he got a price from Adams and Gibbons, who were £60 cheaper. However A & G did not have a cab and said delivery was so bad it could take a month or two to get one. Sherwood’s had two cabs stored at Sherwood and Wynn Hurworth. Dad rang Sherwood’s spares department who agreed that a cab was a part and they agreed to sell him one that was stored at Sherwood and Wynn. He was in the process of collecting the cab and taking it and the chassis/scuttle to Adams and Gibbon, Dunn Street Newcastle to have it fitted. Noble relented and agreed to match Adams and Gibbons price, but even then when it was fitted instead of fitting the standard Bedford step boards he had just put four strips of wood at each side, telling dad that what did he expect for his money.
Next came the price for the 1500 cu ft. body. Sherwood and Wynn, dad decided was too expensive so the now chassis/cab was taken to Young’s (The Ford dealers of Sunderland and Chester Le Street) Sunderland body shop. Dad told me he had numerous trips over to Sunderland as they hadn’t got a clue what they were building, as first attempt they had been going to put the body far too high on the chassis. Apparently the OB chassis had a bow towards the wheels and they were compensating up to that height rather than fit to the lower part of the chassis. Young’s built and painted the van and had parked it next to the wall in the paint shop and dampness had made all the side bleb. It had to be repainted, and then when dad finally went to collect it they found they had built it too high to pass through their doors to get it out and had to let the tyres down.
Why dad had wanted a standard cab, and not let Noble build an integral like he subsequently did for Sawley Gill of Durham, I can never understand. This would have solved everything as JUP was a lovely van that basically dropped to bits due to bad bodybuilding by Young’s. It was a few years later when Sawley Gill decided to pack in doing removals and dad bought LPT did he really realise what he would have achieved if he had spent a few pounds more and let Sherwood and Wynn build a well-built pantechnicon with an integral cab.
For all its faults below id JUP
In May 1979 I visited a Bedford agent requiring an unusual repair.
Me and my ex-wife were travelling down to London on the A! With EUG702, the 1937 Bedford 2 tonner to take part in the HCV London to Brighton run and about Huntingdon there was a bang and when I stopped to look the retaining strap that held one side of the petrol tank onto the chassis had snapped.
For those of you that have driven a 1930’s vehicle you will understand how bumpy our roads are that is not noticeable in a modern vehicle but the constant vibration had caused it to snap. I tied the tank on as best I could and made my way into the centre of the town to find a Vauxhall/Bedford agency and walked into reception to ask if they could assist in repairing a Bedford. I think they were quite surprised to see the age of the vehicle and managed to weld the strap and refit it. Asking how much I owed I was told that it had been a pleasure for them to work on the and there was no charge.
We carried on the rest of our journey to Battersea Park where we parked the van, with the rest of the journey being uneventful and made our way over to the Europa Hotel in Berkeley Square Mayfair and outside on the small foyer the hotel was parked Colin Smith’s ( of Crook) 1937 Scammell.
Next day we took part in the road run to Brighton and I won the ‘The John fielder Challenge Cup’ for the vehicle travelling the furthest distance under its own power. The cup was presented to me by the Duke of Kent.
I was therefore allowed to take part again with the same vehicle, the next year to defend my title. The following year (1980) we had arranged with Ferguson’s Blyth that we could park the van up there to give forty or so miles extra to exceed the mileage covered the previous year. In the event the cup was won by a competitor who came from Scotland.
1981 saw my wife pregnant with my daughter Alexis and at the reunion Frank Morgan reminded me that he had travelled down to London with ENK306 with one of our driver’s taking it on a low-loader and I had merely travelled down to London on the train and done the road run with Frank and caught the train back home. Really that was cheating and nothing replaces the excitement of doing the full journey by road.
Anyone remember this from 1978. Christine, if you remember, I can remember one year you coming see the rally at Witton castle, one year with your daughter, who was then a toddler
I’d forgotten all about that Carl, until you mentioned it. I can remember now. How do you recall all this information from years ago? You’ve got a better memory than me. Chris
825christineh:
I’d forgotten all about that Carl, until you mentioned it. I can remember now. How do you recall all this information from years ago? You’ve got a better memory than me. Chris
Hi Christine,
It’s strange that I can remember things that happened in the sixties an seventies better than I can an hour or two ago. I surpose it’s because my mind is idle now with nothing else to go but remember those times, but The eighties onwards are very blurred., but unfortunatly I have lost a lot of cells from the front of my brain where tese memories should be held.
For anyone that might be interested in the next week or so I will be scanning the list of old commercial vehicles at Witton Castle in 1978 and it might bring back a few memories to others
Carl
Carl Williams:
825christineh:
I’d forgotten all about that Carl, until you mentioned it. I can remember now. How do you recall all this information from years ago? You’ve got a better memory than me. ChrisHi Christine,
It’s strange that I can remember things that happened in the sixties an seventies better than I can an hour or two ago. I surpose it’s because my mind is idle now with nothing else to go but remember those times, but The eighties onwards are very blurred., but unfortunatly I have lost a lot of cells from the front of my brain where tese memories should be held.
For anyone that might be interested in the next week or so I will be scanning the list of old commercial vehicles at Witton Castle in 1978 and it might bring back a few memories to others
Carl
hiya,
Carl what happened to Witton Castle it was always well supported and then
it just went surely can’t be lack of interest, not in this part of the world.
thanks harry, long retired.
Missing your posts Carl.Hope everything is OK. Peter
Hi Peter,
I’m back from a week in the sun on the Canaries. They say all bad things return, so here am I . Thanks for asking
Carl
Hi Carl
Good to see you back safe & sound good to see you are very CHIRPY & enjoyed yourself did you meet up with any nice birds ha ha.When did you return & was it OK landing mate?
Gordon.
goggietara:
Hi Carl
Good to see you back safe & sound good to see you are very CHIRPY & enjoyed yourself did you meet up with any nice birds ha ha.When did you return & was it OK landing mate?
Gordon.
Hi Gordon
I had a great time, very hot and sunny, but i got prickly heat whic stopped me sun bathing. Very relaxed now and cant get motivated. Will contact Geoff Pye and arrange as soon as weather improves
carl
Hi Carl
I was also interested in the previous posts about Adams and Gibbons as I also used to go to the Durham branch quite often. We had a mutual friend in the late Doug Hedgley of Sunderland who had a 1945 Bedford OST recovery truck, previously owned by Adams and Gibbons, Sunderland branch. He restored the truck, keeping it in Adams and Gibbons colours of cream and red although he used his own company name of Doug Hedgely (Glass) Sunderland. I have been trying for several weeks to track down a photograph to post but to no avail to date (I’ve got some tidy cupboards now though). In my search I found a programme for the June 3rd 1984 2nd HCVS Tyne Tees run (sorry for the picture of the PIGFORDS van on the front cover) which includes a couple of adverts I hope you might find of interest. I’ve also scanned, from the same programme, the entry page for the two vehicles you entered.
Pleased to hear you enjoyed your holidays and soon get back into the swing of things.
Peter
pbsummers:
Hi Carl
I was also interested in the previous posts about Adams and Gibbons as I also used to go to the Durham branch quite often. We had a mutual friend in the late Doug Hedgley of Sunderland who had a 1945 Bedford OST recovery truck, previously owned by Adams and Gibbons, Sunderland branch. He restored the truck, keeping it in Adams and Gibbons colours of cream and red although he used his own company name of Doug Hedgely (Glass) Sunderland. I have been trying for several weeks to track down a photograph to post but to no avail to date (I’ve got some tidy cupboards now though). In my search I found a programme for the June 3rd 1984 2nd HCVS Tyne Tees run (sorry for the picture of the PIGFORDS van on the front cover) which includes a couple of adverts I hope you might find of interest. I’ve also scanned, from the same programme, the entry page for the two vehicles you entered.
Pleased to hear you enjoyed your holidays and soon get back into the swing of things.
Peter
3
Hi Peter,
Thanks for finding that out, it brings back memories and is very interesting .
I am still in relaxation mode and need to gather my thoughts and make an effort., but looking at our advert realise it was one done by our advertising agents as it is more professional than I would have done. Yet I ould have made sure the van shown was much more accurate.
Once again Peter
Thank you
Carl
In the advert below, the vehicle was EUP488G. The van was built by Marsden Coachbuilders Ltd to TIR specification, and came with a big thick plastic A4 size block with photo and certificate etc. to prove it was TIR registered. (A sort of passport for the vehicle)
When we came to arrange our advert with Yellow Pages it was brand new and they used that photo to produce a brass printing block (Which we had to pay for) for production of the advert. It just shows how printing process has changed since 1969.
We used this block for most of our adverts for the next ten years, which gave a good reproduction of EUP488G. If you look in the advert below you can just see where the TIR board is folded on the front driver’s side of the cab above the headlights, and in some cases the reg no is nearly visible.
However time went on and EUP488G was starting to look older. When the ad for the Tyne Tees Run was done as it ended in South Shields we were trying to promote our Sunderland office, as many of the people who bought the brochure came from Sunderland South Shields area, and we had not got any vehicle painted promoting Sunderland so that is why the sketch was used.
However I have already mentioned my ‘hobby’ of reading Yellow Pages whenever I was away from home, and in nearly every edition some removal contractor had a likeness of EUP488G with their name drawn on it. The TIR plate always gives it away. Obviously Yellow pages had made more than one copy, and it appeared in ads well into the 1990s which in all cases did not complement their businesses as it made them look as though they operated out of date vans.
Talking to the taxi driver who bought me home from Tesco the other day, he was telling me of how he was teaching his daughter to drive, and I was telling him of how I learnt and then I was telling him of what it was like driving though Durham City way back in 1964.
When you think back now it was like from another age and I wonder how the car drivers of today, that seem, in my eyes to make such a pathetic attempt of driving on modern roads would have managed.
Driving up the A1 (As it was then) to the ■■■■ of the North (another long gone and sadly missed landmark) e used to turn right onto South Road, past Farewell Hall. (In years gone by this was where relatives said ‘Farewell’ to prisoners being taken to Durham Jail to be hanged). Down to the traffic lights at The New Inn. (Even in those enlightened days of 1964 these lights were changed by large rubber sensors across the road so that the traffic volume ensured that the lights changed quickly to save unnecessary delays at the lights/ not so today).
Down Church Street, just as today past St Oswald’s Church (said to have an underground tunnel under the river linking it to the Cathedral on the opposite bank, to help fugitives from the law to leave the Cathedral after claiming sanctuary at the famous knocker).At the bottom of Church Street on the right hand side was a fish and chip shop where today we find traffic lights making traffic stop, as the corner is now considered to be dangerous. Yet in 1964 I could pass through and turn left onto New Elvet unobstructed as in those days more trust was given to the driver’s skills.
Turning left onto New Elvet on left hand side were now stands Dunelm college was Mathew Fowler’s furniture shop and saleroom, whilst opposite stood Fowler and Armstrong’s Austin car showroom , stores and garage, where often I went with dad before my teens to collect parts for Austin cars. As we reached the far end of New Elvet, after passing The Three Tuns on right, where the new bridge spans over the river was a dead end and we turned left. (If we were going to tax a van I would have turned right past the Royal County as the Registration office used to be along there in an old disused station.
As I said we turned left over Elvet Bridge passing Durham Auto Electrics, now Swan and Cygnet on right hand side , and every time today that I walk over that bridge which is now pedestrianized , I wonder how it accommodated two way traffic. As you left the bridge up Silver Street there came to a point where on the left was a fish shop with Pheasants and poultry hanging out over the pavement so that buyers could choose what they would like to eat. Further on left was the House of Andrew’s book shop, but that was just beyond the traffic lights that made it one way traffic into the market place. In 1964 that set of lights was still controlled by the policeman sitting in his box in the middle of the road in the market place, assisted with the first ever ‘Close circuit television system so that from his box he could view the waiting traffic ad work the lights according to the volume of traffic. When you passed through the lights, I remember you signalled by hand (In my case wanting to turn right, by putting my hand showing right up to the windscreen and you were waved through, onto Claypath, and my final destination usually was Adams and Gibbon on the left hand side.
Telling the taxi driver that was how it was in Durham, he couldn’t believe how things had changed, and I explained to him that my Grandfather took me for my test in Bishop Auckland and after passing as I drove up Marmaduke Street dad was standing outside the garage and told my grandfather to get out the car and gave me a list and said ‘Get yourself through to Adams and Gibbons and get these parts’. My Granddad said that he would go with me to be told he has to learn to manage on his own.
When I think back now I cannot help but think that they should have kept the centre of Durham as it was with the policeman still there in his box, on point duty in the centre of the market place, and this could have been achieved by building a very wide ring road right round the extremity of the city. Had they done that in the late sixties instead of cutting through the centre there would have been a lot less hold ups as traffic still has to pass through the revised city centre, and it would have left Durham so much more ‘old world tourist attraction’.
Monday September 9 1968
I was in Marmaduke Street on my own apart from office staff working in no16 where we had an office.
Just after lunch we had a phone call from Sloan’s of Bishop Auckland (Both Eddie and Peter will most probably remember them) they were a retail furniture supplier (and clothes) that sold to their customers on credit and had a warehouse, I think in Kingsway Bishop Auckland as opposed to a shop and we delivered for them.
They had a couple of urgent deliveries they needed making that afternoon or evening, but were mostly concerned that we could collect them before they closed. As I say no one else was there except me and as one vehicle VPT828F was standing in the garage, brand new and never yet been used. Peter Butler had completed writing it approaching midnight the previous night and it was now dry and ready to go.
I can remember the day well as it was my 21 birthday and it was still before HGV licences and tests had been introduced, so I was now licenced to drive it. So opening up the large sliding garage doors I reversed onto the street, and off I went.
In those days after going down Park head bank on the Spennymoor-Bishop Auckland Road there were two choices, down towards South Church or along Durham Road into Bishop Auckland, and into Newgate Street. As Sloan’s was behind Newgate Street and in Kingsway I decided to go into Bishop Auckland through South Church.
The road to South Church still is there just as it was in 1968, apart that now it is rarely used as most vehicles take the bypass. The other change is that now the road under the railway bridge has traffic lights at either side to restrict one vehicle at a time passing through. In those ways it was much busier and two way traffic. VPT828F was 13 foot high and the bridge which was offset could only let the van pass through if you got the very centre of the rounded bridge, and go through at an angle, or you would rip the top off any van of that size. To make matters worse, traffic travelling the other way weren’t stopped by any traffic lights and were never keen to stop to let you pull across the road to go through the centre of the bridge. Quite a few of our experienced drivers would always avoid that route and rather go through the town.
Never the less I got to Sloan’s , put on the furniture and got it back to Spennymoor for the first small van that came in to deliver, and VPT 828F was still in one piece unmarked. I was often asked what dad would have done if I had caught the top of the bridge, and I can honestly say I never gave it a thought, but I certainly would never of lived it down, but my view was VPT 828F came from Marsden’s in grey primer, and I had on my own painted it, apart from the writing, so whatever I could have repainted. The next day Colin Watson took it and held onto it for several years, without taking any holidays and letting anyone else drive it.
Hi All
The driver of the car involved in the collision with Billy Dixon was killed.
Nick the Greek ------- Bob Heathwaite
Genghis Khan---------- Peter Hallliday
Long black hair ------- Peter Winship
Colin
Hi Carl
Remember the bridge at Southchurch very well. We used to collect livestock every Thursday from B/A mart. We could get through the bridge ok going down empty but if we had to put the top deck up for sheep the only option was to go back through the town.
Cheers
Colin Watson:
Hi All
The driver of the car involved in the collision with Billy Dixon was killed.Nick the Greek ------- Bob Heathwaite
Genghis Khan---------- Peter Hallliday
Long black hair ------- Peter WinshipColin
Hi Colin
Tanks for that information.
I knew nothin of bill dixon accident, so can only assume i must have been away somewhere, and presumably there must have been no, or very little damage to our vehice or I would have been involved in the repairs and more particularly any loss of use claim, which I always took care of
Hope retirement is suiting you, now you have finally finnished your responsibilities
Carl