Hi Carl, I’ve just been talking to my mam about great uncle Jack. When his dad had the butcher’s shop down Durham rd. Jack used to go round with the horse and cart selling the meat. My mam said that if someone couldn’t afford to buy a roast for Sunday he used to give them it for nothing. Needless to say, the shop eventually went bust and had to close down. He sounds like he was a very nice bloke. Apparently he was very psychologically damaged by the war and used to suffer terrible head pains. With his wife playing away on top of that, I’m not surprised he did away with himself. Chris
825christineh:
Hi Carl, I’ve just been talking to my mam about great uncle Jack. When his dad had the butcher’s shop down Durham rd. Jack used to go round with the horse and cart selling the meat. My mam said that if someone couldn’t afford to buy a roast for Sunday he used to give them it for nothing. Needless to say, the shop eventually went bust and had to close down. He sounds like he was a very nice bloke. Apparently he was very psychologically damaged by the war and used to suffer terrible head pains. With his wife playing away on top of that, I’m not surprised he did away with himself. Chris
Hi Christine
Both my granddad and dad couldn’t speak more highly about your uncle. Both said it was tye saddest thing they had ever known, and dad ofte talked about him up to the day he died
Carl
Newcastle Office
A bit background of how it came about -First.
Patrick Cavagner was employed in Newcastle as Brewer and Turnbull’s manager for North East England.
About 1970 he started his own removal business and traded as Bainbridge Removals, with an office in the centre of Newcastle which had a central Newcastle telephone number. (Apparently important for prestige reasons).
Bainbridges department store had, until several years before (As Binns had) their own removal department. He was therefore trying to capitalise on Bainbridges reputation as Newcastle’s main department store. Remarkably Bainbridges found out and remarkably agreed to him using the name.
With Hoults and Pickfords he soon took up his position as the third Newcastle removal company. At British association of removers meetings Pat, who had been known from his Brewer and Turnbull days, became a leading light.
However because of martial problems and gambling he got into debt and started drinking. Apparently Pickfords, head office in Enfield gave him a letter of intent to buy his business for a very large sum, which allowed him to persuade his bankers to give him a very large overdraft, but change of management at Pickfords made them decide not to go ahead with the purchase, and the bank withdrew the overdraft.
I can remember lying in my bath at my home in Chilton, in about 1980 when I got a telephone call from Pat to ask would I buy him out, spelling out all the benefits. I told him I was not interested in buying his business, but I would take over his Newcastle office, employ him and all his employees, leaving him free to sell his vans to get a cash sum.
With this outline of a deal Pat came over and met my dad and I. Working out a commission deal which was mutually beneficial to Pat and us we made an agreement and the next day I met Pat at Newcastle and we went to see the local authority, who Pat leased the property from, at Sunderland Street . The problem was that Pat was in areas with rent and I agreed to pay this on agreement that they would give us the lease. At the same time back at Spennymoor dad was consulting Joe Hall our solicitor and Allen Sykes and Co our accountants to see the legalities and within a day the office reopened as W.H.Williams Removals a trading division of W.H.Williams (Haulage) Ltd. Three vans had Spennymoor removed and Newcastle upon Tyne added with the Newcastle telephone number.
Pat was an incredible salesman with a knack with women, particularly married ones. We used to ask the girls in the office what women could see in him and they agreed he was not good looking or ■■■■■■■■ appealing but whatever he he had had it. He once explained that the trick was to listen to what they had to say and make them believe you wanted the hear them. ‘Most of the women I go to see to give an estimate are bored married women. Their husbands are successful and don’t have time to take an interest in what they have, and I listen to them’. He certainly did when they rang him to tell him how much Pickfords and Hoults were estimating for the removal, letting us be the cheapest quote when they sent them for their employers to pay.
More to follow.
825christineh:
The only small bloke with long dark hair and tash I can remember was John Chapman. Chris
Hi Christine,
Were you there when Pat Cavagner was there and we had the Newcastle office? If so what did you think of him.
Another you will remember was Kneesie Henderson that supplied the stationery, and no doubt remeber how he got the namr kneesie
Carl
I can’t remember Pat but I can remember a bloke who came with the stationery who was a bit of a lech. Was that Kneesie Henderson? Chris
825christineh:
I can’t remember Pat but I can remember a bloke who came with the stationery who was a bit of a lech. Was that Kneesie Henderson? Chris
Hi Christine
That’s right.
He got his name as one afternoon when he called he gave a lift to one of you girls’ in the office, (I can’t remember who it was) and as he drove along towards Watson cariers, he put his hand on her knee. I suspect she objected.
Carl
Well, it wasn’t me cos I would have kneed him where he daren’t show his mother. Another reason for him to be called Kneesie. Chris 
825christineh:
Well, it wasn’t me cos I would have kneed him where he daren’t show his mother. Another reason for him to be called Kneesie. Chris
Hi Christine
I don’t know what exactly happened but I never heard of him trying it again, but he was pedalling his stationery at offices all over and for all we know could have been another Jimmy Saville
Carl
Reps always did have a bad reputation for being pervy, justifiably so in most cases. There was one when I worked at Tomado’s who was a right lech. It wouldn’t be allowed today and he would have got done for ■■■■■■ harrassment. I think he must have been delusional cos he was way down the list when looks were handed out. Chris
AEC Mercury Tractor unit coupled to new York 28ft drop frame van trailer. The trailer is painted in NESS Furniture (Durham) livery.
We operated vehicles and trailers painted in the liveries of Thorn EMI Domestic Appliances, Thorn Heating, Curzon Heating, Courtaulds, Steinberg, NESS Furniture, Moore’s Furniture, Barrett’s (Builders), Fisher Price Toys & Godfrey Syrett Furniture.
Sometimes this was quite a nuisance as the wrong vehicle was many times at the wrong place, but unfortunately the customer is always right.
Carl Williams:
AEC Mercury Tractor unit coupled to new York 28ft drop frame van trailer. The trailer is painted in NESS Furniture (Durham) livery.
We operated vehicles and trailers painted in the liveries of Thorn EMI Domestic Appliances, Thorn Heating, Curzon Heating, Courtaulds, Steinberg, NESS Furniture, Moore’s Furniture, Barrett’s (Builders), Fisher Price Toys & Godfrey Syrett Furniture.
Sometimes this was quite a nuisance as the wrong vehicle was many times at the wrong place, but unfortunately the customer is always right.
Rigid pantechnicons had larger cubic capacidy, carried larger loads, cheaper to operate, more manouverable in tight deliveries often in centre of large towns and cities, however the customer is always right.
The problem with NESS was that they manufactured specific pieces of furniture that were loaded directly onto the vehicle and loading time was on average a day, often having to wait a day and a half for the load to be completed. They thought trailers were the answer as it would cut costs by saving driver and vehicle time However the loads were mostly multidrop with a lot of drops. The furniture had to be carefully packed on the vehicle and unpacked at the destination to avoid damage and in reality it was best that the driver loaded, so he knew how the vehicle was loaded so that when he went to make his deliveries, he knew where that dellivery was on the van. They were not delivering boxes that could be labled, but furniture that although unique could easily be confused if you did not load yourself.
Continuing the story of the Newcastle Office.
Those who read the last post on this subject will recall that I declined to buy out Bainbridge Removals but acquired the lease on the office and small warehouse in Sunderland Street, just at the junction of Westgate Road Newcastle, employ the staff and Pat on small basic wage topped up by commission.
The next problem requiring urgent attention was that Pat had a warehouse in Sunnyside and there were about 25 removals stored inside. At the time we had just containerised our warehouse at Green Lane Spennymoor, so fortunately we had sufficient space to immediately accommodate these removals, which we did as a matter of urgency, under the supervision of Phil Reilly, who by then was warehouse manager, as Pat was in areas with the rent, and the landlords were threatening to take possession.
Next thing bailiffs were visiting the Newcastle office, where they were told to leave as we had not taken over Bainbridge Removals. One company infarct issued a writ to W.H.Williams (Haulage) Ltd attempting to claim we had taken over the assets and therefore were responsible for the debt. Once this proceeded to court it was found in our favour and they had to pay our legal costs.
Meanwhile with this going on in the background we were finding success in the removal market and it was not long until Fred Hoult asked if we, together with Pickfords were prepared to attend a meeting at Hoults offices, Walker Road, Newcastle. At the time I never realised that Hoults were suffering and would be taken over by Pickfords within about a year.
Pat and I attended, together with two representatives of Pickfords and someone from Hoults. and Fred Hoult. Fred who if I recollect correctly was educated at Sedberge School, always appeared and sounded aristocratical, in my opinion, went on in his way to explain they were struggling at the rates that were being charged and explained although we couldn’t be seen to fix the rates (As that would be a Cartel that was illegal) perhaps could find a way to raise the average rates as it would benefit all three companies. We all agreed in principle and went away without any formal agreement. I couldn’t help but wonder what he would have thought if they had needed to compete in our County Durham areas.
To be continued.
hiya,
Carl my friend your thread is going from strength to strength keep it going.
I haven’t come across anything yet that I haven’t shown interest in.
thanks harry, long retired.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Carl my friend your thread is going from strength to strength keep it going.
I haven’t come across anything yet that I haven’t shown interest in.
thanks harry, long retired.
Thanks Harry for your kind remarks
Comments help me to remmber the current theme I’m serialising over about 4 to 5 posts is about our Newcastle office and the removal trade in Newcastl upon Tyne in the eighties. This was inspired by a comment by Eddie Worthington about Macolm Marsden our Spennymoor removals estimator.
It might not interest everyone but to some it is factual and will be very interesting. However to maintain the balance and hopefully keep everyone interested I try to vary the subjects discussed and themes inbetween these more factual matters
Onc again thank you Harry
Carl
I have just had a phone call from Gordon Ball telling me that in today’s Northern Echo there is a notice amongst the deaths of Freddie Prest from Crook aged 83 dieing and the funeral is at Durham Cremetoriam on Friday 30 November.
It certainly sounds as if it is Freddie Prest that drove for us for so many years.
Does anyone know if it is him?
Freddie was one of the drivers who joined us when we took over the ATM fleet and drivers in the mid seventies and continued working for us out of their factories at New Road Crook and West Auckland until they closed down. He then stayed with us doing general work until 1986. As Gordon said this morning he was a really nice bloke.
Hi Carl just new to this forum my father worked for you for many years Norman Snowball
I have been reading the many posts on this thread and it brings back many memorys
I will be posting some of my own very soon
Thanks for a great thread Carl
Peter Snowball (the little ginger lad who filled up the wagons with diesel on a satuday morning at marmaduke street)
snowy jr:
Hi Carl just new to this forum my father worked for you for many years Norman Snowball
I have been reading the many posts on this thread and it brings back many memorys
I will be posting some of my own very soon
Thanks for a great thread Carl
Peter Snowball (the little ginger lad who filled up the wagons with diesel on a satuday morning at marmaduke street)
Hi Peter,
So good to hear from you.
Norman is mentioned on here so many times. He started for us when he was 15 years old, long before I was born, and worked for us most of his working life.
Norman was one of the best packer of furniture whilst on removals I ever came across. We always used him for very large removals when it was very tight to get th load on. I will be so pleased to hear your memories
Carl
Hi Carl, I think it might be the same Freddie Prest that worked for WHW cos I can remember him living at Crook then. Chris
Chris
It said in the paper Freddie Prest had six children so he had a great life, but what a lovely man to work with always cheery.
With the bad weather coming on quickly it came to my mind that many years ago while with other drivers sitting pints in hand in a warm Working Mens Club in North Finchley a popular watering hole the snow was very bad up north & as we watched the tele it featured the heavy snow on the A9 around Aviemore alone stood a policeman hand in the air stopping a wagon out of the blizzard & guess what it was Tommy Brophy looking rather sick he could not go further as the road was blocked.
Gordon.
Hi Gordon, I can remember those terrible winters. When the buses were off I used to have to walk to work up York Hill road and then trudge across that field in the snow to get to WHW. I can remember falling into the ditch one morning and getting soaked. Harry kindly arranged a lift home and back for me so I could get changed. It was Ray Juler. Chris