Yes Carl, you remember correctly about Jean’s son. He was crushed by one of the concrete pipes that were used for kids to crawl through. In this instance it came away from the securing base and rolled over and crushed him. It was a tragic accident, obviously one that Jean never came to terms with, which obviously no parent would. Although she was devastated she had the fortitude and dignity to carry on and I had great respect for her doing so. Chris
pbsummers:
Yes, I’m sure you are right about the van Barrie got built for Peter - It was built on a 4 cylinder Bedford TK chassis cab VUP—F. Peter was telling me on the morning of the day he died that Barrie was going to change the engine for a 6 cylinder 330 when he got a little older and gained more experience. Alas this didn’t happen. You were also right about the size of the van, Carl. It wasn’t much smaller than the other vans that Oughton’s used.You were right about about Micky being with Peter when the accident happened, Eddie.
When you passed your driving test in those days, a 17year old could drive a 7.5t gvw legally as soon as you passed your test with little or no experience of larger vehicles. Fortunately, there wasn’t the amount of traffic then and, dare I say it, people were more sensible. These days you can only drive up to 3.5t gvw (transit sized tipper) when you pass your test then have to pass another to drive anything larger.
Carl, you were right about your dad not allowing the younger drivers (Eddie■■?) to drive large vehicles until they were well experienced on the road as we know they were given vans like the Transit, JU or the magnificent J2 (If you could drive that one you could drive anything).
Hope you are all well. Peter
Yes Peter,
Starting as a van lad, sometimes as young as 14, and then passing your test and driving a small van and working your way up to something bigger had always been practiced by my grandfather, and passed on to dad. Quite rightly we all started on the likes of the J2 and this photo shows your ‘ultimate ambition’ before you drove a cass 3 HGV.
CUP404L was the third of these 350FG’s we were running in the seventies and eighties,together with a 420FG with integral Marsden Pantechnicon. They all had larger diesel engines of 4.2 litre than was normally specifed as we were operating them on long distance work, usually small removals. We later added in the eighties another 350FG boxvan with the standard engine for local work. The 850 cu ft bodies were by Marsden of Warrington in fibreglass.
I took this particular vehicle to Naples, when it was only months old and can guarantee the hum hum of the engine coupled with the cramped uncomfortable driving possition drove you mad. However the were very reliable and profitable vehicles to operate.
YUP194L W.H.Williams (Haulage) Ltd Spennymoor. Seddon Penine pantecnicon with fibreglass body by Marsden Coachbuilders Ltd Warrington fitted with 2 tear Radcliffe Tailift, Perkins 6.354 diesel engine. The body was specially designed by Marsden with a removable decking system to accomodate a double deck load of electric cookers, with the driver able with the help of a barrow to wheel the cookers from the top deck onto the tailift and lower to ground to wheel into delivery premises, and by removing the deck could then similarly unload the bottom deck. With the deck removed and fastened within the van to the sides this same vehice was capable of carrying a load of 140 refrigerators 3 high. The Seddon passenger chassis was ideal as with it designed for passenger use provided a soft ride to minimise transit damage to load and with its length was able to carry a much bigger load than a forty foot articulated trailer. Also you will notice the front wheels are set back for coach use to enable easy access to passengers when used as a coach but this also gave the vehicle a high degree of manouverability, making access to tight delivery points possible.
Strange how you remember some things, but I have clear memories of sitting in the carriage of a compartment train travelling over to Manchester and going from Victoria Station over to Oxford Road Station to travel by train to Warrington. I was accompanied by Dave Herron who went with me to drive the van back. Dave was to be the regular driver of this van from new, and I was travelling with him to pay Marsden the bill for supplying the chassis and building the body and painting. It was in the days that we paid cash for our vehicles, with no hire purchase or leasing. I wonder how many vehicle operators, today pay for their vehicles. If you study the balance sheets of all large companies today, you will find that most don’t own one vehicle with all their fleets being leased.
I can remember getting lifts in these vans, trying not to be indecent in a short skirt as I climbed in. Chris
Carl Williams:
This morning I am deviating slightly to give a tribute to Jimmy Savile who died at lunchtime yesterday and I can slightly justify this with a W.H.Williams connection.In October 1980 my ex wife and myself were having a short two night break at the Imperial Hotel, Blackpool and as we pulled into the car park we couldn’t help but notice a white Range Rover parked at the main entrance of the hotel decorated in bunting. I parked and as we approached the doorway there sat on a chair, on his own was Jimmy Savile. Seeing him my ex wife rushed forward, asking for his autograph and he suggested she sat on his knee and I took a photograph of them both, saying I like a Minx in Mink. (As it was chilly she was wearing a mink jacket.)
As we left him the doorman said, ‘You caught him well there!’ and he went on to say you just missed Mike Yarwood. I checked in at reception and we went over to the lift to put the cases in the room and me, as my usual efficient self pressed the lift button and we got on the lift and down it went into the basement (I had pressed down instead of up). The lift returned to the ground floor and in got Mike Yarwood. Susan said ‘My there are some famous people in here today’. Yarwood totally ignored her and as he was getting off on the first floor said sarcastically. ‘You’ll need the next floor’.
We only stayed in the room seconds and I suggested we go down into the hotel lounge for a cup of tea. Sitting at the table Susan said she was just nipping to the toilet and as I waited the waitress came and took my order, and as I waited still no Susan. I stood up and looked round and saw her sitting at a table with Jimmy Savile, who seeing me beckoned me over. He stopped the waitress and asked her to take our order to his table saying ‘They are joining me’.
He greeted me by saying that my wife had explained who I was and he knew well the cream and brown vans he constantly passed in his Rolls Royce. Apparently he was there as he had arranged for about 200 Manchester Taxi drivers to take under privileged children to the Pleasure Beach for the day and he had gone along to the Imperial ‘as they knew him there’.
We spent about half an hour with him and he honestly seemed to enjoy our company and conversation. During the time people were coming over continually putting money into a bucket he had on the floor next to him, collecting for Stoke Mandeville Hospital. A really nice guy who confirmed to me the value of the really good immediately recognisable livery on our vehicles.
Do you still think he was such a nice guy?
Hmmm,the less said about that the better, I think.
Mysterron:
Carl Williams:
This morning I am deviating slightly to give a tribute to Jimmy Savile who died at lunchtime yesterday and I can slightly justify this with a W.H.Williams connection.In October 1980 my ex wife and myself were having a short two night break at the Imperial Hotel, Blackpool and as we pulled into the car park we couldn’t help but notice a white Range Rover parked at the main entrance of the hotel decorated in bunting. I parked and as we approached the doorway there sat on a chair, on his own was Jimmy Savile. Seeing him my ex wife rushed forward, asking for his autograph and he suggested she sat on his knee and I took a photograph of them both, saying I like a Minx in Mink. (As it was chilly she was wearing a mink jacket.)
As we left him the doorman said, ‘You caught him well there!’ and he went on to say you just missed Mike Yarwood. I checked in at reception and we went over to the lift to put the cases in the room and me, as my usual efficient self pressed the lift button and we got on the lift and down it went into the basement (I had pressed down instead of up). The lift returned to the ground floor and in got Mike Yarwood. Susan said ‘My there are some famous people in here today’. Yarwood totally ignored her and as he was getting off on the first floor said sarcastically. ‘You’ll need the next floor’.
We only stayed in the room seconds and I suggested we go down into the hotel lounge for a cup of tea. Sitting at the table Susan said she was just nipping to the toilet and as I waited the waitress came and took my order, and as I waited still no Susan. I stood up and looked round and saw her sitting at a table with Jimmy Savile, who seeing me beckoned me over. He stopped the waitress and asked her to take our order to his table saying ‘They are joining me’.
He greeted me by saying that my wife had explained who I was and he knew well the cream and brown vans he constantly passed in his Rolls Royce. Apparently he was there as he had arranged for about 200 Manchester Taxi drivers to take under privileged children to the Pleasure Beach for the day and he had gone along to the Imperial ‘as they knew him there’.
We spent about half an hour with him and he honestly seemed to enjoy our company and conversation. During the time people were coming over continually putting money into a bucket he had on the floor next to him, collecting for Stoke Mandeville Hospital. A really nice guy who confirmed to me the value of the really good immediately recognisable livery on our vehicles.
Do you still think he was such a nice guy?
It this country we are innocent until proved guilty.
I can certainly say that my ex wife sat on his knee and had her photo taken by me and was not groped.
However in the balane of opinion I think now he was guilty and a horrible man. However I read in todays newspapers that the women involved are going to sue the BBC and hospitals for financial compensation.
With this in mind I suspect several could well be lying and exagerating to get compensation. They certainly have reason to not tell the complete truth. However he is dead and unable to offer any defence and I only wish it had come out years ago when he was alive and then he could have been sent to prison if he was guilty.
825christineh:
I can remember getting lifts in these vans, trying not to be indecent in a short skirt as I climbed in. Chris
Hi Christine,
I bet te drivers wh gave you a lift would be giving you a close look t check yu weren’t !
Can You remember the girl from New Zealand that wored with us for a whie.
I gave her a lift in the Morris Minor service va we had one morning, and she didn’t have to climb in and I still remember today !
Carl
Hi Carl, No I can’t remember the girl you’re on about. Must have been during my time away from W. H. Williams. I can remember how high the steps on those vans were tho. Sometimes they had bets going in the transport office about what colour knickers I was wearing that day. Chris
825christineh:
Hi Carl, No I can’t remember the girl you’re on about. Must have been during my time away from W. H. Williams. I can remember how high the steps on those vans were tho. Sometimes they had bets going in the transport office about what colour knickers I was wearing that day. Chris
Hi Christine,
You know me , probably as good as anyone, being wages clerk, a little bonus like that, for the drivers helped me keep the payroll bill down
Carl
Well Carl, in that case I think I deserved a pay rise! Chris
825christineh:
Well Carl, in that case I think I deserved a pay rise! Chris
Thinking back, Christine,
How many of the drivers just sat in their cabs studying their roadmaps, or were true gentlemen, as the majority of our drivers were, and got out and walked round to the passenger door to help you get in and keep a close eye on ‘health and safety’
Also to make sure you kept warm and didn’t need to walk far, I bet they usually all pulled up at the side door of the office where the steps came down, to ease you getting in and also allow who ever was at the desk in the transport office to allow them full view of the proceedings!
Carl
Yes Carl, you’re right about most of them being gentlemen. We used to have good humoured banter and a joke but I never ever felt threatened by any of them. Chris
W.H.Williams (Haulage) Ltd Spennymoor CUP305L Bedford KG boxvan in Glassfibre with Radcliffe Taillift built by Vanplan Ltd. Bedford 466 cu in diesel engine. We were approached by Thorn Heating Ltd of Team Valley Gateshead to provide a large 13 ton gvw boxvan with taillift t do a weekly UK bus service round all their UK agents and dealers to deliver central heating boiler and boiler parts.
CUP315L was the first of two Bedfords followed by a Mercedes Benz that carried out the service over the years. Because of greed of operating costs we provided boxvans whereas Integral Pantechnicons would have been just as suitable, and cosmetically been better vehicles, because of costing we provided boxvans. Over the years the drivers would have greatly preferred interal pantechnicons and they would have maintained their smart appearance for longer.
When CUP 315L was replaced by a younger Bedford after 5 years it was repainted in our cream and brown livery, and fitted with a hatcher illuminated roof, and continued in our service for general use for a further 8 years.
The photo shows it standing outside the Eastern door of our Warehouse wthin our transport complex at Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor Co.Durham
CUP 305L was the first vehicle built for us by Vanplan, and was in fact one of the first bodies this, then newly formed company built in their new premises. Gerry Crow, their new managing director and directly a week or two before from Marsden had guaranteed a very fast delivery time, which he achieved.
Dad went, by train over to Warrington and drove it to park it up at a service station at Poulton Le Fylde, near Blackpool that he so regularly used to park the new vans, until we returned home. After work on the Saturday I travelled with my mother over to Blackpool and we met at the caravan.
Tony Kirk drove the Bedford from new, and it was a great success proving that Bedford were better and more reliable than the Seddon Pennine, with Perkins engines we were putting on the road at this period of time, and we could buy three Bedfords to two Seddons
Pleased Jim did’nt fix it for me 
In 1956 we bought a new Ford Thames 4D 5 tonner with 1500 cu.ft luton van body. It was very unreliable but achieved 25 mph. Up to then all our vehicles were petrol and filled from our tank at Marmaduke Street Spennymoor. So dad bought a 250 gallon diesel tank and here is a receipt for 200 gallon of diesel from 1957.
The Ford was unreliable and turned over in the wind but survived in the fleet until 1965. However it did turn dad off diesels until 1961 when we got our first Bedford 30 cu in.
The 4D engine was very simple and easy to work on and had it been reliable how history could have changed. We never bought a Thames Trader, and it was until 1969/70 before we trusted Ford again.
I know T T Liddle, Haward and Robertson, and Hoults all ran similar sized Thames 4D about the same time and in later years as we spoke to all of them, they had experienced similar problems.
Ford were amongst the first to produce a cheap small diesel, and had they cured reliability problems before they put it on the market, they would have gained a lot more customers.
You couldn’t even have a decent night out for 43 quid now. Chris
NUP657M AEC Mercury Tractor Unit
We were approached by Steinberg, owners of the Alexon brand of female clothing, to provide them with transport. They had factories at West Auckland and Milton Keynes, and they wanted us to take a load of £60,000 worth of Ladies clothing manufactured at their West Auckland factory to Trowel Motorway Service area and change over with their vehicle bringing load of material and raw materials from their Milton Keynes factory. They stipulated we bought a new AEC Mercury 26 ton GVW tractor unit painted in their livery.
The photo shows the new AEC reg NUP657M fresh out of our paint shop and photographed outside the front of our office block at our transport complex at Green Lane Industrial Estate. In the background several Bedford Marsden pantechnicons and luton vans are clearly visible.
NUP657M carried out this work with, just routine maintenance for five years 52 weeks a year for 5 years, when the contract was renewed, but this time the requirement was for an ERF B Series, in their new grey livery. NUP657M was then repainted in our cream and brown livery and continued in our use until 1986.
The Jimmy Savile story carries on; everyone knew and was talking about it. It reminds me of a story at our place where everyone was talking about it so much that it couldn’t possibly be true, or could it?
Late sixties or early seventies Thorn had developed a new Cooker, and due to union problems were having difficulty in manufacturing it. It was very popular and the retailers had a waiting list of customers waiting to buy it. As our drivers were pulling up to premises to make deliveries, salesmen (Thinking about their commission) were dashing out and asking our drivers had they any of these cookers on for them and the replies were always the same. No!
Coming back they were telling dad so he could pass feedback onto Thorn. On one occasion he joked to a few that they should have told them to see Jack Hull, as he would get them some.
Jack Hull was an ex-policeman who had worked for us several years. He lived in Woodhouse Close estate at Bishop Auckland and was very smart in appearance. He was always polite and certainly made an ideal driver. Police were investigating theft from Smart and Browns and because he was talked about so much no one ever thought it could be true, and in fact he openly joked about it, himself.
When the police eventually did investigate him they found he had kept books detailing his sales. Amongst his customers were police, prison officers from Durham Jail and even a High Court Judge. The most startling fact was he was selling on hire purchase and had over thirty customers who were paying him, weekly.
The most obvious suspect? Yet the least suspected
VUP812L was the first of six Seddon Pennine pantechnicons we operated. Built on the passenger chassis and fitted with Perkins 6.354 diesel engine. This one is fitted with full Fibreglass body by Marsden (Coachbuilders) Warrington and was the first body they had designed for this particular chassis. Inside the body had drop well and wheel boxes, with drop frame walk in tailboard with roller shutter above. The van was designed for the use of middle to large household removals and continued in our use for this market until 1986.
During its life it took removals to France, Belgium, Switzerland and Italy, and proved to be a very reliable vehicle.
Vehicle numbering: This was not continuous with each new vehicle. When a vehicle was sold the number on it was inherited by the next new vehicle. So this vehicle was no 4 and that number will have been taken off the vehicle in the fleet that VUP812L replaced.
Eddy Ramsey had driven EUP488G from new and was given VUP812L to drive when it was brand new. EUP488G was passed on to other drivers and remained with us till 1986. Eddie drove this van until he was about 64 years old when it was mutually agreed that he should take over responsibility for our warehousing, as it was considered that, in view of his age it was easier work. Unfortunately Eddy dropped down dead, in our Green Lane warehouse on an afternoon of Christmas Eve. Dad had told him to get himself home, and he had replied that he just had a little bit of tidying up to do, and was found dead. He was just a few months short of 65.
Many people can be described as a nice bloke, but the words really ran true with Eddy. I never heard anyone speak badly of him, and all who worked with him over the years learnt and picked up ideas from him.
