rward:
hi carl williams just to say love reading your company past brilliant reading hope for many more regards rowland
Hi Rowland
thank you very much and your kind comments. It seems over the years I have experienced and been told of so many stories and incidents that happened that once provoked they come flooding back to me. I never thought anyone would be interested so once again thank you for your encouragement.
Best wishes
Carl
In the late 1940’s early 1950’s David Kirk had a professional repertory theatre company, that was based in Spennymoor and put on weekly plays in Spennymoor Town Hall. This was before the days of television and was very popular, usually with full houses and some of the cast went on to be quite famous.
His problem was getting the weekly scenery and sets, which he borrowed from wherever possible and he used to hire us to collect and take to the town hall and return at the end of the production.
Mrs Shafto was very kind to him and nearly every week my dad was either taking items of furniture or returning them to Whitworth Hall, the Shafto’s home and formally the home of Bobby Shafto who famously ‘went to sea’.
One day David Kirk asked my dad where he could get a coffin. Dad said without dying he didn’t know. Anyway Kirk located one from a funeral director, which was used for transporting dead bodies to chapel of rests etc until one was made for the corpse. Dad along with other things collected it and took it to the town hall.
The actors and actresses being superstitious wouldn’t go onto the stage with the coffin there, so Kirk hid it with a curtain until it was revealed in the final scene when he himself got out of the coffin the lead role as Count Dracula.
Unfortunately although popular the repertory company was not particularly profitable, and built up a considerable bill with us the problem was that although the cast had to be paid a weekly wage 52 weeks a year the town hall was not always available with other commitments, like the Amateur Operatic Society, and a few other lost weeks… My Grandfather used to tell my dad that they will leave without paying, but dad had faith in David Kirk.
One day he came and asked if we could move him to London and before dad questioned payment pulled out a wad of notes and paid his bill in full. Kirk went onto explain he had written a play which he had sold and part of the deal was he was going to London to direct it in the West End.
Years later when I was old enough to be involved he contacted us and gave us the opportunity of quoting for moving the scenery for a provincial touring production for one of his plays. Unfortunately with our location in North East and as many of the theatres he was visiting were located in the south we were uncompetitive. However it was nice after all those years to remember us and give us the opportunity to quote.
My mother is 85 years old and I was telling her about the last post regarding David Kirk and his theatrical company and it brought back old memories of going to Spennymoor Town Hall and watching his plays and she reminded me of another incident concerning David Kirk.
Apparently he came from Grange over Sands from a wealthy family with no interest in acting but by coincidence his sister had married into the theatrical set and lived with her husband in the West End right into the middle of theatreland.I don’t know how many readers realise but during the war and for sometime afterwards all direction signs were taken down in London. The theary apparently was that if the Germans invaded without signs they wouldn’t be able to find their way.
David Kirk had asked my dad if he could drop one or two things off at his sisters flat. No doubt as he usually would have in those days, he will have travelled down to London overnight with these items loaded behind the load he was to deliver, and after making deliveries come straight back without stopping.
To his credit he found the address and arrived at 6.00AM The flat was in a highish building of six floors above shops and at the door was a series of bells. Not knowing which floor he pressed the first bell. A light came on the frst floor and a head came out of the window and my dad shouted uo the name and was pointed as further up. By the time he had got the right flat he had woken everybody up.
He walked up to the flat and as the door opened it led into the bedroom where the husband usherd my dad through past his sleeoing wife to a very large reception room. After carrying the items up the lady of the house got up to offer my dad a cup of tea. First of all she apologised for the mess as the night before they had had a party where Wilfred Pickles (famous on radio in those days )and his wife Mable had attended and went on to say there flat was ver popular with celebrities as it was so central.
Passing onto the cup of tea she asked would dad like China or Indian.As my dad came from Spennymoor all he knew was Typhoo. Unknowing he opted for China tea and taking one sip it tasted dreadful> He was talking holding his cup and at the first opportunity when hev thought he wouldn’t be noticed poured the cup of tea into a plant that was next to him.Always after that dad always opted for coffee when asked.
I find the picture below fascinating for 2 reasons
The Bedford SB (2nd down) Is a mirror image of the SB - MPT 692D that my father and I bought from WH Williams back in the late 70s. It was our 1st ever truck as we started trading, bringing out of retirement a successful company that my father, Ron Burridge (now 84) had started back in 1964 (a long story). The old bus was a worker and we worked her for 4 yrs antil she was scrapped. WHW supplied her in brown ( I suspect the had a big batch of paint that needed using) and their signwriter did a classy, scrolled logo. Wish I had a photo.
Top pic - GUU 552N - We bought 2nd hand from a dealer. It was our 1st move from the 330 engine and the 466 performed well. We had no idea that it was a WHW truck and it is quite fascinating to know this
We also bought an Leyand FG but this was such a dog that we didnt keep it long. Harry and my Dad were old school, got on well and Harry was most helpful when we started going again.
We have are still going strong, focussing on quality rather than quantity. My how times have changed.
An Early Richardson Photo then based in Leeds This would be circa 1966 Courtesy of Billybob
Mr Mover:
I find the picture below fascinating for 2 reasons
The Bedford SB (2nd down) Is a mirror image of the SB - MPT 692D that my father and I bought from WH Williams back in the late 70s. It was our 1st ever truck as we started trading, bringing out of retirement a successful company that my father, Ron Burridge (now 84) had started back in 1964 (a long story). The old bus was a worker and we worked her for 4 yrs antil she was scrapped. WHW supplied her in brown ( I suspect the had a big batch of paint that needed using) and their signwriter did a classy, scrolled logo. Wish I had a photo.
Top pic - GUU 552N - We bought 2nd hand from a dealer. It was our 1st move from the 330 engine and the 466 performed well. We had no idea that it was a WHW truck and it is quite fascinating to know this
We also bought an Leyand FG but this was such a dog that we didnt keep it long. Harry and my Dad were old school, got on well and Harry was most helpful when we started going again.
Hi Mr Mover
So good to hear from you. Although I cannot recollect meeting you I knew your dad Ron very well and had the highest respect for him. Hope he is keeping well and send him my regards. My dad was 86 when he died and sadly had lost the use of his legs and had to be moved round the bungalow on a hoist by carers.
I am pleased you said BSO looked exactly like MPT692D which is number 17 on the list of our vehicles bought after 1961 on page 4 of this thread. MPT692D had been built by Marsden on a new Bedford SB chassis we had purchased from Adams & Gibbon Durham and had a full fibreglass body. BSO had been purchased second hand from Fyffes of Forres which had been plymax bodied, painted in their colours and had either aluminium or stainless steel mouldings which separated the colours and was rounded to the rear of the vehicle. To get it to look like other SB’s we had at that time when MPT692D would probably have been our newest vehicle was horse work…
Like you say the SB’s were real workers, and really kept in good mechanical condition with the Marsden Glass Fibre cab and body would almost last for ever. We reluctantly replaced them because at 9.5 ton gvw we had a constant worry of overloading of either the whole vehicle but more so the front axles. The nearest thing that worked like them in my view was the London Transport Routemasters.I am not surprised it lasted a further 4 years because it would have been in very good mechanical condition when we sold it to you. My dad would have ensured everything was OK with it before he would have let Ron buy it. This is even more remarkable considering it would have worked for us well over 600,000 miles.
DPT100B number 8 on the list was the FG you spoke of. I have spoken earlier in this thread about this vehicle and as you said it was a dog and had been from new. The only thing in its favour was it would go and go and go, but for the driver torture. It had 3.8 Litre diesel engine but it was so governed down that it was slow. You can imagine that when I was 16 to have put L plates on that and having to try to drive it could have put me off driving for life. The vehicle was basically good but somehow it didn’t translate into the integral pantechnicon Marsden had built on it. I think the driving position was wrong, probably because the cab was much wider than the design of the original FG cab and also the gearbox which was a crash box had the leaver at the wrong position and angle for the driver. In every other case the Marsden pantechnicons were so much better to drive, than their standard cab counterparts and usually felt much better vehicles. DPT was the exception.
We bought a further 4 Fgs over the years all the others 3.5 to gross to get under the operating licence threshold. Three had the same engine and as far as I know the same gearbox but with Marsden building lutons on the standard chassis cab and they were so much better and easier to drive.
It’s so good to see you still going, but to me it seems that removals have changed so much over the years. There doesn’t seem to be so many large vans about. With fitted furniture and flat pack the large bulky and often heavy wardrobes are no more and so many people seem to use rent a vans now.
Finally Best wishes Carl
We have are still going strong, focussing on quality rather than quantity. My how times have changed.
An Early Richardson Photo then based in Leeds This would be circa 1966 Courtesy of Billybob
When we started doing Courtaulds work from their Spennymoor plant we needed extra vehicles quickly. A dealer from Ashton Under Lyne, called Bracegirdle had advertised in commercial Motor two ‘B’ reg 1964 Guy Otter (often referred by us as Rotter) with Luton Van Bodies made by the Cooperatives own body shop. They had Gardner 4 cylinder diesel engines and were advertised as in good condition.
My dad and I travelled down to see them one Sunday and as the Bodies were very well built and strong and in good condition we agreed to buy them. I went down on two occasions to pick them up and in each case as I pulled up the rise where the road I was on from Ashton joined the main Huddersfield road I had the same problem. I had to engage bottom gear to pull away and as the selectors were so worn and bottom and first were so near each other I never knew until I started to move whether it was reverse or bottom, and there was always a row of vehicles behind me. I always dreaded that in error I would put it into reverse and reverse into someone behind.
Within a week or so we got a phone call that they had another, but this time C’ reg. and we bought it unseen and again I went down to collect and had exactly the same gearbox problems. When I arrived back to Spennymoor with this, which was long before the M62 was built dad said ‘How have you got back as it had been on the radio that the road over Saddleworth Moor was closed. There had been snow but the Guy felt so sturdy and strong I had got across OK.
We knew well about the vans because they had operated from the Coop cabinet works at Pelaw Gateshead and we had done transport for them when they were without vehicles waiting for these Guys to be delivered. The chassis had been bought but were about 2 years old by the time they got them as the Coop’s coachbuilders had been so slow in building them. But as I had said the bodies were built to the highest of standards and specifications.
Two were painted in Courtaulds green livery and the third in our cream and brown. They mostly ran up and down to Leicester and did about 24 miles to the gallon but were so slow. Drivers used to say they were put on the Guys for punishment. We were surprised how cheap it was to have the engines overalled by Gardner and had the three removed one at a time and sent off.
We opened an account with Guy Motors at Wolverhampton and used to send down for parts as we needed them and they were always on the shelf which is much more than be said for some other vehicles. You don’t mind the trip to Wolverhampton if the parts are there. They chassis were built like battleships and as I found out changing a clutch in a gearbox was an epic job. I have never been interested in the mechanical components of vehicles but was told over the phone by my when I was the only person not out driving to get down the pit under a guy that needed a new clutch to take off every nut and bolt I could see till he could get back to change the clutch plate.
The only problem I can honestly say we had with them was cab rot. Web did everything we could but this was the real problem. Together with I had been travelling down the M18 and passed two of them crawling up towards the M1 on their way to Leicester and I could see why the drivers felt they were being punished.
It certainly wasn’t worth investing in new cabs for them and when we heard that Watson’s Carriers also on Green Lane Industrial Estate were replacing some TK chassis cabs we bought three off them and put the bodies off the Guys onto them. The Guys chassis cabs were then scrapped.
As I said only newly employed drivers drove the Guys and as they worked longer for us they were put on better vehicles. So more of these drivers should be around today. If anyone reading this drove one of these vehicles please get in touch as you will no doubt have tales to tell.
Carl Williams:
When we started doing Courtaulds work from their Spennymoor plant we needed extra vehicles quickly. A dealer from Ashton Under Lyne, called Bracegirdle had advertised in commercial Motor two ‘B’ reg 1964 Guy Otter (often referred by us as Rotter) with Luton Van Bodies made by the Cooperatives own body shop. They had Gardner 4 cylinder diesel engines and were advertised as in good condition.My dad and I travelled down to see them one Sunday and as the Bodies were very well built and strong and in good condition we agreed to buy them. I went down on two occasions to pick them up and in each case as I pulled up the rise where the road I was on from Ashton joined the main Huddersfield road I had the same problem. I had to engage bottom gear to pull away and as the selectors were so worn and bottom and first were so near each other I never knew until I started to move whether it was reverse or bottom, and there was always a row of vehicles behind me. I always dreaded that in error I would put it into reverse and reverse into someone behind.
Within a week or so we got a phone call that they had another, but this time C’ reg. and we bought it unseen and again I went down to collect and had exactly the same gearbox problems. When I arrived back to Spennymoor with this, which was long before the M62 was built dad said ‘How have you got back as it had been on the radio that the road over Saddleworth Moor was closed. There had been snow but the Guy felt so sturdy and strong I had got across OK.
We knew well about the vans because they had operated from the Coop cabinet works at Pelaw Gateshead and we had done transport for them when they were without vehicles waiting for these Guys to be delivered. The chassis had been bought but were about 2 years old by the time they got them as the Coop’s coachbuilders had been so slow in building them. But as I had said the bodies were built to the highest of standards and specifications.
Two were painted in Courtaulds green livery and the third in our cream and brown. They mostly ran up and down to Leicester and did about 24 miles to the gallon but were so slow. Drivers used to say they were put on the Guys for punishment. We were surprised how cheap it was to have the engines overalled by Gardner and had the three removed one at a time and sent off.
We opened an account with Guy Motors at Wolverhampton and used to send down for parts as we needed them and they were always on the shelf which is much more than be said for some other vehicles. You don’t mind the trip to Wolverhampton if the parts are there. They chassis were built like battleships and as I found out changing a clutch in a gearbox was an epic job. I have never been interested in the mechanical components of vehicles but was told over the phone by my when I was the only person not out driving to get down the pit under a guy that needed a new clutch to take off every nut and bolt I could see till he could get back to change the clutch plate.
The only problem I can honestly say we had with them was cab rot. Web did everything we could but this was the real problem. Together with I had been travelling down the M18 and passed two of them crawling up towards the M1 on their way to Leicester and I could see why the drivers felt they were being punished.
It certainly wasn’t worth investing in new cabs for them and when we heard that Watson’s Carriers also on Green Lane Industrial Estate were replacing some TK chassis cabs we bought three off them and put the bodies off the Guys onto them. The Guys chassis cabs were then scrapped.
As I said only newly employed drivers drove the Guys and as they worked longer for us they were put on better vehicles. So more of these drivers should be around today. If anyone reading this drove one of these vehicles please get in touch as you will no doubt have tales to tell.
hiya,
Very interesting stuff once again Carl,a company I worked for when living in Lancashire Harwood Meggitt also had a Guy Otter little four wheeler four pot Gardner job which was driven by anybody who’s vehicle was being serviced it had no regular driver it was only used for local C&D work and animal feeds to the local farms when a second man was always the norm the thing was as reliable as a Rolex watch but the gearstick always reminded me of a stick in a bucket of porridge and as you say finding “crawler” when on the move was always a bit hit and miss and it was a dead certainty you would need “first” on anything that even looked like a hill, this little motor was always immaculate though being nursed by the yard foreman who also drove it on the depot “sandwich run” happy days back in the sixties eh.
thanks harry long retired.
I wonder if you’ve seen this photo?
harry_gill:
Carl Williams:
When we started doing Courtaulds work from their Spennymoor plant we needed extra vehicles quickly. A dealer from Ashton Under Lyne, called Bracegirdle had advertised in commercial Motor two ‘B’ reg 1964 Guy Otter (often referred by us as Rotter) with Luton Van Bodies made by the Cooperatives own body shop. They had Gardner 4 cylinder diesel engines and were advertised as in good condition.My dad and I travelled down to see them one Sunday and as the Bodies were very well built and strong and in good condition we agreed to buy them. I went down on two occasions to pick them up and in each case as I pulled up the rise where the road I was on from Ashton joined the main Huddersfield road I had the same problem. I had to engage bottom gear to pull away and as the selectors were so worn and bottom and first were so near each other I never knew until I started to move whether it was reverse or bottom, and there was always a row of vehicles behind me. I always dreaded that in error I would put it into reverse and reverse into someone behind.
Within a week or so we got a phone call that they had another, but this time C’ reg. and we bought it unseen and again I went down to collect and had exactly the same gearbox problems. When I arrived back to Spennymoor with this, which was long before the M62 was built dad said ‘How have you got back as it had been on the radio that the road over Saddleworth Moor was closed. There had been snow but the Guy felt so sturdy and strong I had got across OK.
We knew well about the vans because they had operated from the Coop cabinet works at Pelaw Gateshead and we had done transport for them when they were without vehicles waiting for these Guys to be delivered. The chassis had been bought but were about 2 years old by the time they got them as the Coop’s coachbuilders had been so slow in building them. But as I had said the bodies were built to the highest of standards and specifications.
Two were painted in Courtaulds green livery and the third in our cream and brown. They mostly ran up and down to Leicester and did about 24 miles to the gallon but were so slow. Drivers used to say they were put on the Guys for punishment. We were surprised how cheap it was to have the engines overalled by Gardner and had the three removed one at a time and sent off.
We opened an account with Guy Motors at Wolverhampton and used to send down for parts as we needed them and they were always on the shelf which is much more than be said for some other vehicles. You don’t mind the trip to Wolverhampton if the parts are there. They chassis were built like battleships and as I found out changing a clutch in a gearbox was an epic job. I have never been interested in the mechanical components of vehicles but was told over the phone by my when I was the only person not out driving to get down the pit under a guy that needed a new clutch to take off every nut and bolt I could see till he could get back to change the clutch plate.
The only problem I can honestly say we had with them was cab rot. Web did everything we could but this was the real problem. Together with I had been travelling down the M18 and passed two of them crawling up towards the M1 on their way to Leicester and I could see why the drivers felt they were being punished.
It certainly wasn’t worth investing in new cabs for them and when we heard that Watson’s Carriers also on Green Lane Industrial Estate were replacing some TK chassis cabs we bought three off them and put the bodies off the Guys onto them. The Guys chassis cabs were then scrapped.
As I said only newly employed drivers drove the Guys and as they worked longer for us they were put on better vehicles. So more of these drivers should be around today. If anyone reading this drove one of these vehicles please get in touch as you will no doubt have tales to tell.
hiya,
Very interesting stuff once again Carl,a company I worked for when living in Lancashire Harwood Meggitt also had a Guy Otter little four wheeler four pot Gardner job which was driven by anybody who’s vehicle was being serviced it had no regular driver it was only used for local C&D work and animal feeds to the local farms when a second man was always the norm the thing was as reliable as a Rolex watch but the gearstick always reminded me of a stick in a bucket of porridge and as you say finding “crawler” when on the move was always a bit hit and miss and it was a dead certainty you would need “first” on anything that even looked like a hill, this little motor was always immaculate though being nursed by the yard foreman who also drove it on the depot “sandwich run” happy days back in the sixties eh.
thanks harry long retired.
Hi Harry
Your description was exact ‘The gear stick in a bucket of porridge’ exactly
Ours had cabs like a smaller version of the Guy invincible with twin headlights. I have seen photos of the Otter before with a more rounded cab, and I think this must have been better, becasuse the cabs were a disaster, such a shame also such a shame that they hadn’t fitted five cylinder Gardner engines as they would have given that bit extra power. To us as an operator they were cheap to run and so reliable. But i felt so sorry for the poor drivers. however if they stuck it and proved themselves they were soon rewarded with a quicker and more comfortable drive
Once again best wishes Carl
240 Gardner:
I wonder if you’ve seen this photo?
Hi 240 Gardner
Thank you so much I hadn’t seen that photo, and had just faint memory of that Guy GGG325L
It was fitted with Gardner 180 engine and I think it is probably been driven by Kenny Hardy who I have previously mentioned on this thread. Its wonderful to see vehicles working instead of static publicity shots and its also very rare to catch one of our tractors pulling one of our 40 ft platform trailers.
I don’t surpose anyone knows where the photo might have been taken.
Also is there anyway that I can obtain a copy to post on this thread.
Best wishes
Carl Williams
Carl Williams:
240 Gardner:
I wonder if you’ve seen this photo?Hi 240 Gardner
Thank you so much I hadn’t seen that photo, and had just faint memory of that Guy GGG325L
It was fitted with Gardner 180 engine and I think it is probably been driven by Kenny Hardy who I have previously mentioned on this thread. Its wonderful to see vehicles working instead of static publicity shots and its also very rare to catch one of our tractors pulling one of our 40 ft platform trailers.
I don’t surpose anyone knows where the photo might have been taken.
Also is there anyway that I can obtain a copy to post on this thread.
Best wishes
Carl Williams
I just happened to spot it, and remembered this thread!
The chap that posts them sells prints - if you follow the links back to his profile, there are contact details there
Talking about the Guy Otters and seeing the photo, kindly prompted by 240 Gardner, of our Guy Big J Tractor unit reminded me of an incident at Darlington Test Station.
But first I’ll explain our methods of getting our vehicles tested. Part of my job was to see all vehicles were taxed as in those days we did not get reminders. When plating and testing was introduced I also had the responsibility of booking and ensuring each vehicle was tested at a time that was convenient to us and caused the minimum of disruption.
I therefore booked one vehicle in for test at Darlington 9-00AM every Monday morning. We did not use block booking and each vehicle was individually booked. On bank holidays we took the Tuesday morning alternative. That allowed for 52 vehicles per year and extra vehicles were booked for the Wednesday morning. Eventually when we had every Monday and Wednesday booked we used Friday mornings as well.
The basic of the original Monday morning booking was that we could allocate the work so that the vehicle for test returned to Spennymoor on the Thursday afternoon and was steam cleaned. On the Friday the vehicle was pulled in for inspection to see what was required and then loaded for Monday. Any repairs necessary were carried out on the Friday carrying on to the Saturday if necessary and this left Sunday as an emergency if we had difficulty getting any parts etc. With the Bedfords parts were no problem as we carried substantial stock in our own stores, but other makes on occasion presented problems.
On the Monday morning the driver would leave accompanied by a fitter and I would follow by car. If any minor faults were detected the fitter could repair at the test station and it could quickly be re inspected and once passed the driver could leave on his journey.
This system worked very well and we had very few failures that needed the vehicle to return to Spennymoor. It also allowed me to keep an eye on our maintenance standards.
One of the Guy Otters had a problem, on one occasion. As I have already said the Guys had basically only one fault, the cabs Mechanically they were exceptional and on the rare occasion we needed any parts they were always readily available at Guy in Wolverhampton, and the trip was worth while knowing you could get spares off the shelf in a quick efficient spares department, a facility I wish we had with Leyland, as one example. This occasion it passed through the test station without problem until the last section where the lights were tested. Everything was OK until ‘Full Beam?’ the lights went further down. It failed., and I appealed.
In my mind I knew the problem was the cab had fallen a little due no doubt to wear and the lights were no longer positioned as had been planned when it was originally built, and I knew to correct the flow of the beam would have been very difficult if not impossible.
My argument was that the lights were correctly focused in the dipped mode, and there was no requirement of what height they had to be on full beam. On dipped we had two single headlamps and on full beam all four came on. Some friendly arguments ensured, and after a lot of telephone calls it was established that I was correct and the vehicle received a new test certificate
A different line up. I cannot identify the firsr Bedford KF Marsden but the Seddon showing part of its cab is AUP997S after it was repainted in WHW livery. This vehicle is displayed earlier in this thread in ATM colours At the bottom of the photo is two trailers in Thorn EMI domestic appliances white livery. The tractor unit is one of the Leyland Lynx and just showing before that is a Seddon Vanplan pantechnicon
amongst the strange things we have carried on our vans were racing pigeons.
In the mid to late sixties each weekend we had four to five vans taking loads of pigeons in their baskets to racing destinations.The job involved traveling round and collecting baskets from various collection points,on usually on a Friday evening and taking them ,early Saturday morning to places usually ajacent to the A1 where they were released. The driver would then return the following morning to the same collection points as he had collected from.In those days although there were driving restrictions each day there was no weekly limit to the number of working hours and no law that said a driver had to have a continuous 2 hour rest each week. So drivers could, if they chose, work seven days a week.
This happened for about four years until they bought their own purpose built pigeon carriers.
I used to think it was a nuisance to us as more than often we had to unload the vans on the Friday afternoon (as they were often loaded with their Monday’s work) and then reload on the Monday morning. Also by that time we had equiped each van with 120 white blankets supplied by Morson Products to be used for Furniture packing with the idea that they remained on the vans at all times to keep them in a clean usable condition, and they were geting dirty by being removed onto concrete flooring.
However we had no shortage of volanters from our drivers that did the work and it was making our use of these vehicles more efficient. So perhaps I was wrong and we should simply have charged a little extra to cover the inconveniences. After all it must have cost a tremendous amount less for using us than their own vehicles which they did later.
Strangley there was no noticable smell in the vans after they had carried the pigeons. Even so Eddy Ramsey, for one ,always put pieses of a colone smelling soap to ensure his van smelt fresh inside.
In the mid sixties when I was studying my A Levels at school expansion of our business was governed by the A licence system. So I decided the best way of increasing our turnover was to increase the productivity of the fleet…
I asked my dad the simple question. Was he prepared to pay the driver the same wage to do the work if he took less time, did more work and increased his weekly wage and at the same time the vehicle turnover. He readily agreed.
Thinking back to the tale my dad had told me of Reg Toothill of Toothill upholstery secretly timing his workers in making three piece suites, I decided I needed to know exactly how long it was taking to do the work.
I don’t know how many people reading this remembered the old Service Recorder. A device that was designed long before the thoughts of the tachograph that simply recorded on a weekly chart day by day for when the vehicle was travelling or stationary.
It was not possible to put one in the cab as none of our drivers would have accepted this, but I ordered two recorders. When they came I went to work on fitting them to two Bedford SB’s hidden behind the dash in the front of the cab. Anyone who knows me will know I tend to be impatient and in no way have any joinery ability. But one Sunday morning I took out the ‘glove compartment’ in the passenger side (It was only held in by two screws) and bolted a piece of wood I had cut and chopped to size into the gap between the inside dash and the outside of the vehicles. I then painted over the bolt heads that were exposed in the cab to hide they had been added and screwed my Service Recorders into place. Quite honestly I didn’t know if they would work in the location I had selected. But I was also greatly surprised by the results they produced over a few weeks.
Eventually when I had my information I removed the recorders but leaving my craftsmanship designed pieces of wood. A few years later one of the SB’s had an accident destroying part of the nearside cab and the driver said that Marsdens had left rough work behind the dash where it couldn’t be seen, and for some reason they had put what appeared to be firewood holding some of it together.
I found on average some drivers were taking three days to do what could be done in two and even hard workers by leaving earlier on a morning in some cases could make there vans available half a day earlier for loading.
Working on the hours for ages paid as I came up with a plan to pay them 30mph plus 1 hour per drop and when they got back to Spennymoor they could clock in and be paid to 5.00PM.A safeguard was put in that they could get a signature at any delivery that held them up and took longer than an hour and then we would pay that extra time. In practice this was a great help to avoid delays as when they asked at delivery points to sign to say they had been delayed they hurried up and got them unloaded anxious that we might send them a bill for the delay. Earlier they were paid 11 hours for each night they were away and 10 hours on the day of return.
I then had a meeting with all drivers one by one to try to explain the benefits to them and how it could get them a better wage. They didn’t agree until I gave them the option of trying for 4 weeks and we then would pay them by which ever system was higher, making it that they had nothing to loose.
As soon as they saw their increased earnings they agreed and it served as our norm until 1986 apart from miner changes increasing the speed to 32 miles per hour and reducing the time at drops from 1 hour to half an hour.
I had started with a blank sheet and was not aware of anyone else offering anything like it when we introduced it, however I did hear of similar schemes being introduced later.
To an extent it stood the test of time and even when it became illegal to offer bonus schemes that encouraged speeding it still stood up because it was ruled at the speeds we were basing it at was not in anyway speeding.
Where we suffered was in the eighties some operators were paying 17% of vehicle earnings where our wage bill was about 32%. At that time and the rates being paid 17% was not a fair wage to be paid but the drivers who accepted this rate were fooled and in my opinion the only way they could earn a decent wage was driving excessive hours
4479PT our first Bedford Diesel SB was originally Cream & Brown WHW livery then at about three years old painted in Ness furniture Blue Livery with yellow lettering (Steel Style Furniture) then was repainted Cream & Brown WHW livery.
At about 8 years old was involved in a substantial accident that just involved bodywork but our insurers decided to write it off. We bought the salvage and repaired it and put it back onto the road.
A few years later a driver left Spennymoor with a load of domestic appliances for London Electricity Board a delivery where we often had to deliver loads. When the driver went through the security gate he was met by who he thought was a security man, who told him ‘There wilI be a short delay, go to the canteen and get a cup of tea and bite to eat’, and continued telling him if he left the keys in the ignition they would back it in a loading dock if one was ready before he came back. When he returned shortly afterwards the van was gone. The police were called and it was established the driver had been victim of a scam and the van and contents had been stolen.
Weeks went by and the police had found nothing when we received a telephone call asking us if the van 4479PT was for sale as it had been stood in a London Street for several weeks. We rang the police and they checked and verified it was our van, empty of course, and we could come and collect it.
When our driver arrived the windscreen was covered in parking tickets for its illegal parking. How had the police not found it?
hiya,
You just keep it coming Carl I thoroughly enjoy reading your anecdotes and what a memory you have, thank you.
thanks harry long retired.
Carl, I must agree with Harry and others, I really enjoy your stories and always have a look at this thread, but I’ve spent so much time on here I’ve missed E.S.L trucks etc on the telly!!! Regards, Mizzo.
Carl Williams:
amongst the strange things we have carried on our vans were racing pigeons.In the mid to late sixties each weekend we had four to five vans taking loads of pigeons in their baskets to racing destinations.The job involved traveling round and collecting baskets from various collection points,on usually on a Friday evening and taking them ,early Saturday morning to places usually ajacent to the A1 where they were released. The driver would then return the following morning to the same collection points as he had collected from.In those days although there were driving restrictions each day there was no weekly limit to the number of working hours and no law that said a driver had to have a continuous 2 hour rest each week. So drivers could, if they chose, work seven days a week.
This happened for about four years until they bought their own purpose built pigeon carriers.
I used to think it was a nuisance to us as more than often we had to unload the vans on the Friday afternoon (as they were often loaded with their Monday’s work) and then reload on the Monday morning. Also by that time we had equiped each van with 120 white blankets supplied by Morson Products to be used for Furniture packing with the idea that they remained on the vans at all times to keep them in a clean usable condition, and they were geting dirty by being removed onto concrete flooring.
However we had no shortage of volanters from our drivers that did the work and it was making our use of these vehicles more efficient. So perhaps I was wrong and we should simply have charged a little extra to cover the inconveniences. After all it must have cost a tremendous amount less for using us than their own vehicles which they did later.
Strangley there was no noticable smell in the vans after they had carried the pigeons. Even so Eddy Ramsey, for one ,always put pieses of a colone smelling soap to ensure his van smelt fresh inside.
Carl, did you encourge the pigeons to fly after they where loaded ? just think of the improvement in the fuel consumption. 
harry_gill:
hiya,
You just keep it coming Carl I thoroughly enjoy reading your anecdotes and what a memory you have, thank you.
thanks harry long retired.
Hi Harry
Thank you for your kind comments.
Its strange but I remember events just like they happened yesterday. Photos of the vans just seem like yesterday and I get a shock when I see a car with them as it looks so old and jolts my mind into realising how long ago it was. My Grandfather, My Father and myself lived for the business, and it was our llives. All three of us had little if any other interestd and hobbies, never took many holidays, so it was such a big part of our lives.
The strangest part is when I recall a particular event it brings back memories of others, but my memory is very week on years 1980-86. I see vehicles on photos that I briefly recall and yet cannot remember buying or where they came from. I must be in a time warp. But I have quite a lot I still recall and will write about.
Perhaps you will understand
Best wishes
Carl
