Can someone please tell me
a)if completing these manual entries is a legal requirement or just advisory ?
b) If this is a legal requirement then what penalties/fines can vosa give you?
C) we now have new siemens tachographs in our vehicles which now have a ? figure to show holidays, the chap who showed me insisted that we new some sort of letter to prove that we were in fact on holiday/sick etc, they are proving an absolute nightmare as unlike the old ones you now have to put the rest symbol in on your manual input, if you forget the last driving period continues and you could get an infringement for doing just pressing the wrong button.
d) can you just keep a diary of hours and days off?
dinosteveus1:
We got in after loading and he put his Digi Card in and started to drive off.
No vehicle checks AND loads off the card good old day’s eh
He’s one of the ‘I’ve been in this industry all my life blah blah’ chaps. Nice guy and all that but
First thing I do is get the keys and put my Card in on other work. Get the paperwork, check the vehicle, then check the load or load it.
Banquo:
Can someone please tell me
a)if completing these manual entries is a legal requirement or just advisory ?
Yes, you are required to record all your working day.
Banquo:
b) If this is a legal requirement then what penalties/fines can vosa give you?
Level 3 Fixed penalty - £120 Fail to enter on the driver card, when away from the vehicle, periods of time using the manual entry facility provided in the recording equipment.(digital)
or
Fail to enter legibly on the record sheet, when away from the vehicle, periods of time, manually or by other means. (analogue)
Banquo:
d) can you just keep a diary of hours and days off?
Banquo:
Can someone please tell me
a)if completing these manual entries is a legal requirement or just advisory ?
Yes, you are required to record all your working day.
Banquo:
b) If this is a legal requirement then what penalties/fines can vosa give you?
Level 3 Fixed penalty - £120 Fail to enter on the driver card, when away from the vehicle, periods of time using the manual entry facility provided in the recording equipment.(digital)
or
Fail to enter legibly on the record sheet, when away from the vehicle, periods of time, manually or by other means. (analogue)
Banquo:
d) can you just keep a diary of hours and days off?
No.
What about the holiday issue?
I’m on agency, if I’m not in work, then I’m off, and nothing is stored on card.
If I start at 4am, but don’t get in a truck till 4.20 due to paperwork, walk around yard etc, a manual entry is made for the 20 mins, but not for the time since I last ejected card.
Newest Stoneridge (spits) tacho’s ask “Rest until now?”
I always show ten mins other work.Put card in on other work check oil plus water start it up then walk round kick tyres and check lights.Pull out of the shed lock it up put keys back and by that time you can see if air bags are fully up or if there are any air leaks.I check tyre wear when tipping its easier with the body tipped up.If you are the regular driver the amount of times you walk around it each day you should notice something if its wrong!
It doesn’t actually state it anywhere but if you are pulled up and checked it’s advisable to show at least 15 minutes before setting off. On the old paper logs if you were pulled over and you didn’t show the 15 minutes you didn’t get a ticket but a warning and a right rollocking.
Happydaze:
Tell them the workshop/night driver/shunter/tea boy (sorry tea-person) did them. Tell them you did them last night. Ask them to prove you wrong.
I should think that is quite easy when you pull out on the road with a slack or flat tyre, or that some ■■■■■ has had your fuel cap off
switchlogic:
It does t say it anywhere it’s just seen as good practise. I for one go straight from rest to drive everyday but I know my lorry inside out and keep a good eye on it all the time so other than a quick check of fifth wheel I jump in the seat and I’m off.
I’m with you Luke, if you are the only one who drives your truck day in day out then i dont see that you need to spend the 8-10 mins walking round checking everything… Thats 8-10 mins you may need in the later stages of the day…
Just because you are the only one who drives it doesn’t mean things dont break or fail. VOSA man finds a large cut in your sidewall or whatever, and your defence is that you checked it a couple of days ago and it was fine■■? I think you will find that won’t wash with Mr VOSA!!!
I don’t need it to wash with Mr VOSA because he won’t find anything wrong that I don’t already know about it. And if I know about it it’ll be fixed. You missed my point entirely. I didn’t say I only check my truck every couple of days. I check it and keep and eye on it all the time, from a walk round when I’ve shut the back doors to a wander walking back from the services. I’d put my truck up to scrutiny by any VOSA man and believe me it’s a hell of a lot better looked after than ANY fleet truck that gets its 15 minute check every morning.
I’ve been stopped by VOSA a lot, I’ve never been questioned about showing 15 minutes, why? Because they never find anything wrong with my truck and can tell its well looked after.
switchlogic:
It does t say it anywhere it’s just seen as good practise. I for one go straight from rest to drive everyday but I know my lorry inside out and keep a good eye on it all the time so other than a quick check of fifth wheel I jump in the seat and I’m off.
I’m with you Luke, if you are the only one who drives your truck day in day out then i dont see that you need to spend the 8-10 mins walking round checking everything… Thats 8-10 mins you may need in the later stages of the day…
Just because you are the only one who drives it doesn’t mean things dont break or fail. VOSA man finds a large cut in your sidewall or whatever, and your defence is that you checked it a couple of days ago and it was fine■■? I think you will find that won’t wash with Mr VOSA!!!
I don’t need it to wash with Mr VOSA because he won’t find anything wrong that I don’t already know about it. And if I know about it it’ll be fixed. You missed my point entirely. I didn’t say I only check my truck every couple of days. I check it and keep and eye on it all the time, from a walk round when I’ve shut the back doors to a wander walking back from the services. I’d put my truck up to scrutiny by any VOSA man and believe me it’s a hell of a lot better looked after than ANY fleet truck that gets its 15 minute check every morning.
I’ve been stopped by VOSA a lot, I’ve never been questioned about showing 15 minutes, why? Because they never find anything wrong with my truck and can tell its well looked after.
Not saying your truck isn’t 100%. I just mean that if you or anyone is stopped by VOSA and something is found, you could use the argument that it was fine when you left the yard or where ever because you done your daily checks as shown on your digi card. VOSA hasn’t questioned why you don’t show 15mins because your truck is spot on when you get pulled as you say, but we all know it would be a different story if they did find something wrong. Thats when the questions start!
The advice I’d give is take as long as you feel necessary to satisfy yourself the vehicle you’re in charge of is safe and road legal.
The time I show at the start of a shift varies day to day, some days 5 mins, some days 15, some days 30 if the kettle takes a while to boil , but I’m always as sure as I can be that the motor will pass a roadside inspection before I hit the road.
I’ve had 3 stops in the last 3 years (twice by VOSA, once by Police) without an issue, if your vehicle is well maintained VOSA won’t care whether you show 5 mins or 5 hours at the start of your shift for checks.
switchlogic:
It does t say it anywhere it’s just seen as good practise. I for one go straight from rest to drive everyday but I know my lorry inside out and keep a good eye on it all the time so other than a quick check of fifth wheel I jump in the seat and I’m off.
Let’s hope you don’t have any mishaps then or one of those lawyer chappies will tear you a new ersehole!
switchlogic:
It does t say it anywhere it’s just seen as good practise. I for one go straight from rest to drive everyday but I know my lorry inside out and keep a good eye on it all the time so other than a quick check of fifth wheel I jump in the seat and I’m off.
I’m with you Luke, if you are the only one who drives your truck day in day out then i dont see that you need to spend the 8-10 mins walking round checking everything… Thats 8-10 mins you may need in the later stages of the day…
Just because you are the only one who drives it doesn’t mean things dont break or fail. VOSA man finds a large cut in your sidewall or whatever, and your defence is that you checked it a couple of days ago and it was fine■■? I think you will find that won’t wash with Mr VOSA!!!
I don’t need it to wash with Mr VOSA because he won’t find anything wrong that I don’t already know about it. And if I know about it it’ll be fixed. You missed my point entirely. I didn’t say I only check my truck every couple of days. I check it and keep and eye on it all the time, from a walk round when I’ve shut the back doors to a wander walking back from the services. I’d put my truck up to scrutiny by any VOSA man and believe me it’s a hell of a lot better looked after than ANY fleet truck that gets its 15 minute check every morning.
I’ve been stopped by VOSA a lot, I’ve never been questioned about showing 15 minutes, why? Because they never find anything wrong with my truck and can tell its well looked after.
Not saying your truck isn’t 100%. I just mean that if you or anyone is stopped by VOSA and something is found, you could use the argument that it was fine when you left the yard or where ever because you done your daily checks as shown on your digi card. VOSA hasn’t questioned why you don’t show 15mins because your truck is spot on when you get pulled as you say, but we all know it would be a different story if they did find something wrong. Thats when the questions start!
Yeah but that’s my point, they won’t find something wrong, not something the driver can check anyhow. If somethings wrong its fixed. I’m saying my truck is checked more than any old battered fleet heap. 15 minutes at start of day is just yet more endless box ticking insisted on by H&S drones. My truck is in better condition and checked more than any fleet truck and I don’t need to prove that to anyone. In fact the last time I was pulled the man with the tapping hammer came up and said there’s ‘not much point checking this is there’ and walked off. That made me smile.
switchlogic:
It does t say it anywhere it’s just seen as good practise. I for one go straight from rest to drive everyday but I know my lorry inside out and keep a good eye on it all the time so other than a quick check of fifth wheel I jump in the seat and I’m off.
Let’s hope you don’t have any mishaps then or one of those lawyer chappies will tear you a new ersehole!
I got pulled for a routine vosa check about 6 months, inside Scunthorpe steelworks, we’re always 100% legal, always green on vosa’s system, and when he took my card out to check drivers hours, he came back and said, everything’s ok, we can see you’re showing you’re daily checks on your card at beginning of shift, this is one thing we are checking for, at least 10mins before you move off… He then went on to tell me that the reason you’re better of showing it on card, is because if you’re involved in a accident, and like the guy said in above post, the lawyers etc will rip you apart in court if it’s not shown on tacho, as far as they’re concerned, you haven’t done you’re daily checks, and in this claim culture we’re living in now, you have to cover your backside, make sure you fill you’re check sheet out, and show it on tacho, just to be safe, it’s not worth risking…
I’d like to see the lawyers ‘rip you a new ■■■■■■■■’ on something that’s not actually laid down in law. Which is fairly academic anyhow since your assuming the accident would be caused by a fault missed because the driver wasn’t doing his checks when I for one could never be accused of.
switchlogic:
It does t say it anywhere it’s just seen as good practise. I for one go straight from rest to drive everyday but I know my lorry inside out and keep a good eye on it all the time so other than a quick check of fifth wheel I jump in the seat and I’m off.
This is a good point as those of us that have the same truck everyday shouldn’t need 15 minutes to check it over. Most modern ones let oil water and bulbs be checked from the dash anyway.
Yes but i have a merc and if its not cleared then the next time a bulb goes you could just think its the same error coming up.You have to check the oil via the dash but you shouldnt be letting the water run down until the sensor low light comes on!You cant beat getting off your arse and checking for yourself!!
Where exactly within the EU drivers hours regulations are the so called checks that VOSA demand? For that matter under which law are these so called driver checks required? Until they are enshrined within the law, not just VOSA’s “requirements” they can as far as I am concerned whistle. Like Luke I virtually live in my truck and know it like the back of my hand - so why do I need to waste 15 minutes of my life looking for what I already know about when Im in the UK?
15 minutes is pathetic unless you drive a vehicle that does heavy haulage low lowder where you are checking starpa chains etc.It only takes 5 mins to kick each tyre and check the lights,dog clip etc
, but I’m always as sure as I can be that the motor will pass a roadside inspection before I hit the road.
