war1974:
these load exchange systems you seem so intent on using are a reverse ebay if you like sold to the lowest bidder - not a good way to make money especially in haulage.
I’m not talking about getting loads from freight exchanges any more. I suspected the rates there were low and I wanted to confirm it - that’s why I started this topic in the first place. I’m now talking about being a freight forwarder or a freight broker or whatever it’s called and offer shippers to move their loads through freight exchanges. Someone is taking those loads from freight exchanges, so let’s give the more.
You aren’t sure if you want to be a freight broker, a freight forwarder or a whatever. Not sure what a whatever does, but there’s a difference between the first two.
So I put my load onto a platform of some description, and hope that someone will do the job for much less so that you and I can make some wonga, at least enough to pay out my drivers redundancy and keep me in the lifestyle to which I have become accustomed for the next ten years without a job. Because that is what would happen.
I don’t know if anyone else has a clause in their contracts, but we are limited to using subbies for no more than 5% of turnover.
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t make a fortune as a subby. I make enough to make it worth my while, I have no finance on the truck and there would be nothing stopping me selling it and going off to work as an employee.
The rates on offer on haulage exchanges are typically 20% below the rates I work for. I personally couldn’t make a living running my truck on work obtained via haulage exchanges. Additionally, I know my money will go in on the 1st of the month, every single month, almost to the minute. I have never once had to chase a payment.
As others have hinted at I suspect Dmitri has some vested interest here which he has not disclosed.
Harry Monk:
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t make a fortune as a subby. I make enough to make it worth my while, I have no finance on the truck and there would be nothing stopping me selling it and going off to work as an employee.
The rates on offer on haulage exchanges are typically 20% below the rates I work for. I personally couldn’t make a living running my truck on work obtained via haulage exchanges. Additionally, I know my money will go in on the 1st of the month, every single month, almost to the minute. I have never once had to chase a payment.
As others have hinted at I suspect Dmitri has some vested interest here which he has not disclosed.
Please read my answer to war1974 at the very top of page 4.
Harry Monk:
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t make a fortune as a subby. I make enough to make it worth my while, I have no finance on the truck and there would be nothing stopping me selling it and going off to work as an employee.
The rates on offer on haulage exchanges are typically 20% below the rates I work for. I personally couldn’t make a living running my truck on work obtained via haulage exchanges. Additionally, I know my money will go in on the 1st of the month, every single month, almost to the minute. I have never once had to chase a payment.
As others have hinted at I suspect Dmitri has some vested interest here which he has not disclosed.
Please read my answer to war1974 at the very top of page 4.
albion:
Hmmm, I’m the one with a 25 year old successful business , getting good rates and you want to give me a new business model… Possibly there’s only you that that will think I could be opening up to the idea.
You don’t have to change your existing business. This could be an addition to what you have now. As Harry says, the rates on freight exchanges are 20% lower than what he gets now. And what he gets now is NOT from a direct shipper but effectively an intermediary. And there’s a good probability that they also get some of their loads from yet another intermediary. So if you have contacts with real direct shippers, there has to be at least 30-40% of margin. So we can offer lower rates and there should be something left for profit. And if your existing contract allows you only 5% of turnover for subcontractors, this will be a different company and we’ll be open about the fact that we’ll use exclusively subcontractors - if they want your own trucks, they can go to your current company and get them (for a higher price).
As I said earlier, why don’t you go off and do this on your own rather than trying to share your brilliant idea with people who have told you over and over again that they aren’t interested?
Harry Monk:
As I said earlier, why don’t you go off and do this on your own rather than trying to share your brilliant idea with people who have told you over and over again that they aren’t interested?
He’s obviously involved in a (fledgling) scheme, and you are all giving him oxigen…
Harry Monk:
As I said earlier, why don’t you go off and do this on your own rather than trying to share your brilliant idea with people who have told you over and over again that they aren’t interested?
He’s obviously involved in a (fledgling) scheme, and you are all giving him oxigen…
I’m surprised Rikki is not stepping in.
Well, he isn’t actually breaking any forum rules, and Rikki has visited and posted on this thread, saying pretty much the same as everybody else. Meanwhile, as the OP has just passed his Operator’s CPC I will wish him the best of luck with his idea, just don’t expect anybody else to be quite as enthusiastic about it.
the nodding donkey:
Typical troll with ulterior motive.
My ulterior motive is to start a transport company and be profitable (or any company for that matter, I’m also looking at other options). All shippers already have established transport companies that they work with and I can’t offer them 25 years in business to woo them away - I’m new. So I’m looking for something that may work for someone new.
Also, I believe that in general freight, customers are less and less willing to pay for “long term relationship” and other goodwill. They just want someone to move their freight cheap, on time, and with insurance. It is all going towards Ubers for freight. But I don’t think it can be all automated (yet) like Uber for passengers, there’s still a lot of negotiations, manual checking and some paperwork involved.
Being a subbie, with all due respect to all subbies, just doesn’t work financially as an investment. It is essentially buying yourself a job, there’s almost 0 profit for the investment part of it. That’s my ulterior motive.
An online haulage exchange is just a digital clearing house for loads that are gathering dust somewhere because nobody sensible will cart them anywhere. Always been run by shysters looking to get money out of a desperate haulier. I can see the likes of Gregorys breaking into a cold sweat at the thought of Dimitri approaching their customers with his band of willing sub-contractors.
the nodding donkey:
Typical troll with ulterior motive.
My ulterior motive is to start a transport company and be profitable (or any company for that matter, I’m also looking at other options). All shippers already have established transport companies that they work with and I can’t offer them 25 years in business to woo them away - I’m new. So I’m looking for something that may work for someone new.
Also, I believe that in general freight, customers are less and less willing to pay for “long term relationship” and other goodwill. They just want someone to move their freight cheap, on time, and with insurance. It is all going towards Ubers for freight. But I don’t think it can be all automated (yet) like Uber for passengers, there’s still a lot of negotiations, manual checking and some paperwork involved.
Being a subbie, with all due respect to all subbies, just doesn’t work financially as an investment. It is essentially buying yourself a job, there’s almost 0 profit for the investment part of it. That’s my ulterior motive.
So, you have correctly identified one of the reasons why the haulage industry is on a nosedive. Did you do that all by yourself?
You have also identified a solution to part of the problem. Cut out the middle men. Very astute.
But then you want to be a middle man yourself… and think that you can set this up by getting a few dyed in the wool drivers/operators to come work for you.
albion:
Hmmm, I’m the one with a 25 year old successful business , getting good rates and you want to give me a new business model… Possibly there’s only you that that will think I could be opening up to the idea.
You don’t have to change your existing business. This could be an addition to what you have now. As Harry says, the rates on freight exchanges are 20% lower than what he gets now. And what he gets now is NOT from a direct shipper but effectively an intermediary. And there’s a good probability that they also get some of their loads from yet another intermediary. So if you have contacts with real direct shippers, there has to be at least 30-40% of margin. So we can offer lower rates and there should be something left for profit. And if your existing contract allows you only 5% of turnover for subcontractors, this will be a different company and we’ll be open about the fact that we’ll use exclusively subcontractors - if they want your own trucks, they can go to your current company and get them (for a higher price).
And I refer you back to my reply ref Uber. Since it wasn’t clear, I’ll clarify. I have no interest in screwing people down so I can get lazy rich. Call it a conscience, call it ethics, call it morals, though you will probably call it stupidity, but I’m no being part of the race to the bottom to satisfy someone else’s greed. The people who are doing work for those rates are running badly maintained trucks with badly paid drivers running to the max, which means as soon as they get a sniff of a better paid job, they are off leaving you with a load going nowhere. You pay ■■■■ money, you get ■■■■ service.
As war1974 said, you are talking about a reverse auction. I was offered the ‘opportunity’ to tender for a contract, which turned out to be a reverse auction. I wasn’t going to sit there like some ageing who’re in a brothel watching the price going down. Nor am I going to be party to doing it someone else, whoever willing they are.
As I said to the transport speicalists ( misnomer if ever there was), it’s that business model that typifies everything that is wrong with modern business.
dimitri:
My ulterior motive is to start a transport company and be profitable (or any company for that matter, I’m also looking at other options). All shippers already have established transport companies that they work with and I can’t offer them 25 years in business to woo them away - I’m new. So I’m looking for something that may work for someone new.
Also, I believe that in general freight, customers are less and less willing to pay for “long term relationship” and other goodwill. They just want someone to move their freight cheap, on time, and with insurance. It is all going towards Ubers for freight. But I don’t think it can be all automated (yet) like Uber for passengers, there’s still a lot of negotiations, manual checking and some paperwork involved.
Being a subbie, with all due respect to all subbies, just doesn’t work financially as an investment. It is essentially buying yourself a job, there’s almost 0 profit for the investment part of it. That’s my ulterior motive.
I can’t see you getting many prime steaks out of this…
dimitri:
Being a subbie, with all due respect to all subbies, just doesn’t work financially as an investment. It is essentially buying yourself a job, there’s almost 0 profit for the investment part of it.
Thanks, I’ll tell my accountant next time I see him because he seems to think that I made 16% profit on turnover last year. Still, I’m sure he’ll be interested in your opinion, seeing as you know so much about the ins and outs of road transport.
dimitri:
Being a subbie, with all due respect to all subbies, just doesn’t work financially as an investment. It is essentially buying yourself a job, there’s almost 0 profit for the investment part of it.
Thanks, I’ll tell my accountant next time I see him because he seems to think that I made 16% profit on turnover last year. Still, I’m sure he’ll be interested in your opinion, seeing as you know so much about the ins and outs of road transport.
which means that your accountant will think you are rich and charge you more, so what you need to do is set up an accountant exchange and get them to work out your accounts for £3.50…
dimitri:
Being a subbie, with all due respect to all subbies, just doesn’t work financially as an investment. It is essentially buying yourself a job, there’s almost 0 profit for the investment part of it.
Thanks, I’ll tell my accountant next time I see him because he seems to think that I made 16% profit on turnover last year. Still, I’m sure he’ll be interested in your opinion, seeing as you know so much about the ins and outs of road transport.
To calculate your return on investment (in your truck) you need to deduct a salary you could’ve earned working for someone else. You need to do that because you can make that salary without any investment. And if you make an investment you’d expect it to work for you and generate some income on top of your salary. So, if you deduct let’s say £35,000 (or more, which you could’ve earned as a hired driver) from that profit that your accountant told you you’d made last year and what’s left will be what your investment in your truck generated for you. It is probably very small.
dimitri:
To calculate your return on investment (in your truck) you need to deduct a salary you could’ve earned working for someone else. You need to do that because you can make that salary without any investment. And if you make an investment you’d expect it to work for you and generate some income on top of your salary. So, if you deduct let’s say £35,000 (or more, which you could’ve earned as a hired driver) from that profit that your accountant told you you’d made last year and what’s left will be what your investment in your truck generated for you. It is probably very small.
‘Profit’ is what’s left after paying the driver’s wage.What does it matter who gets the wage.If the owner/operator works as a driver for someone else then the operator obviously still has to pay for the driver in either case and the revenue,before wages,earn’t by the truck remains the same.
dimitri:
To calculate your return on investment (in your truck) you need to deduct a salary you could’ve earned working for someone else. You need to do that because you can make that salary without any investment. And if you make an investment you’d expect it to work for you and generate some income on top of your salary. So, if you deduct let’s say £35,000 (or more, which you could’ve earned as a hired driver) from that profit that your accountant told you you’d made last year and what’s left will be what your investment in your truck generated for you. It is probably very small.
‘Profit’ is what’s left after paying the driver’s wage.What does it matter who gets the wage.If the owner/operator works as a driver for someone else then the operator obviously still has to pay for the driver in either case and the revenue,before wages,earn’t by the truck remains the same.
Harry can go out and get hired as a driver and earn £35,000.
Harry instead decides to buy a truck and drive it himself.
Harry made £36,000 driving his own truck.
Harry’s return on investment is only £1,000 (not £36,000).
dimitri:
Harry can go out and get hired as a driver and earn £35,000.
Harry instead decides to buy a truck and drive it himself.
Harry made £36,000 driving his own truck.
Harry’s return on investment is only £1,000 (not £36,000).
Harry is quite happy doing what he is doing, and wouldn’t be remotely interested in Dimitri’s crackpot business plan.
and think that you can set this up by getting a few dyed in the wool drivers/operators to come work for you.
