The original poster asked for advice as to which union to join, not wether or not to join any union.
There are some out there who are firmly against unions and this can be seen by the aggresive tone in replies. Those who support union membership are by and large reasonable in their answers.
I make no attempt to persuade anyone to join any union but my PERSONAL belief is that a driver is better off in a union than out of one.
To those who prefer to do their own thing but who still question what unions have done for drivers in general , I ask, what have you done for drivers in general ?
I would be interested to see the ages of responders to this thread as anyone who was driving pre 1979 will be aware that pay rises across the country were by and large negotiated by the unions and this only stopped when the Tories amended the laws post 1979 after the national drivers strike which was a resounding success for the vast majority of drivers.
Under present legislation it is almost impossible for unions to achieve much in general terms, especially in such a fragmented industry as transport.
Surely the answer to this is for more drivers, (if not all) to unite under one banner and fight together.
Sadly the last government failed to restrict or amend the anti union laws imposed by the tories and for that the unions must be held accountable as they are large financial supporters of the Labour party and should have used their power to force changes.
As an individual, it may be that some are perfectly competent to represent themselves but after reading some of the ridiculous claims posted on here, purporting to be law, I have my doubts about the majority.
It seems to me that if your job is at stake you should have the best chance you can afford, either employing a solicitor yourself when you need one. or paying into a union so that the legal representation is available free of charge when needed.
It’s worth mentioning here that the Unite union offers 24 hr 7 days a week legal advice to members by phone.
As the saying goes " its better to be on the inside pishing out than on the outside pishing in"
The only other comment I would make is to avoid USDAW, in my experience they are a complete waste of space.
ROG:
Qualified Union reps can be almost as good as some lawyers when it comes to legal representation especially for PERSONAL employment issues
If they’re that good how come your union rep didn’t win your case for you.
Because of the court ruling on the BHS case
The tribunal is not a court so can only rule on procedures and safety issues and not make a legal judgement on evidence as could be done in a court
A bit unfair to blame a rep for something that is legally out of their control !!
JISL to ESL:
OK, if you both, (waddy and coffee) have a gripe against any union and URTU in particular pray tell us just what it is!
I don’t have a gripe against any union, I just don’t see the point in joining one and would rather sort stuff out myself. In over 26 years in this industry there has never been an occasion when I have felt the need for a third party, a union for example, to assist me and there hasn’t been any situation I haven’t been able to sort out myself.
Gaz:
My view also is that i’m big enough to get myself into a situation then i’m man enough to get MYSELF out of it!
That’s my view as well.
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
And judging by a recent thread on here some of those who defend you at tribunals haven’t got much of a clue and rely on luck to win cases.
Or could it be that some Union reps are that good that they can argue a good case for their members at tribunals and win
Maybe, but not in the case I was referring to. That was pure luck and luck has a habit of running out.
ajdavis64:
The french lorry drivers union doesnt have much trouble getting national issues sorted out.
They have in recent years, which is why French drivers haven’t taken any meaningful or successful action for at least 10 years. If they try anything these days they are threatened with immediate loss of their driving licences and the union are unable to prevent it. The thing about French drivers sticking together and so on is way out of date and no longer true. These days it’s right up there in the Driver’s Myths Table alongside such items as cones and chalked tyres in Tesco, a missed ferry, various tunnel fires, you can’t night out in cab unless you can stand up to put your trousers on and when you are on a night out you must sleep with your head X feet from the steering wheel. Oh and not forgetting after the night out in the big cab with head as far away from the steering wheel as possible to cap it all a double decker bus goes past as the morning dump is being taken in the back of the bulk tipper.
ROG:
Qualified Union reps can be almost as good as some lawyers when it comes to legal representation especially for PERSONAL employment issues
tachograph:
If they’re that good how come your union rep didn’t win your case for you.
ROG:
Because of the court ruling on the BHS case
tachograph:
What BHS case ?
Please excuse if I don’t get this explanation spot on as I am not a lawyer
Before the BHS high court ruling, employment tribunals could look at the evidence presented before them and make their determination on that evidence
One example might be that a boss says a driver slashed the tyres on a truck and as the boss reckons that no-one else could have done it in his opinion then that driver is guilty and fired
The boss uses the correct procedures for determining this so-called ‘fact’
Before the BHS case the tribunal could take the actual evidence or lack of it and say the boss was being totally unreasonable and award the driver a win
After the BHS case ruling the employment tribunal cannot impose their take on the actual evidence but only rule on the procedures used so now the driver loses the same case as the boss followed the correct procedures
As I said - I’m no lawyer but I believe I have the jist of it
dieseldave can explain this better than me if you want a second explanation
thanks for the input guys, i think urtu, and unite seem to be about the only ones worth their salt.
my reason for wanting to join a union is.
if i am unlucky and get a speeding fine will the unions pay it for me, i know urtu will.
and of course there is the legal side of it too.
not for work reasons but when at home too.
greggy:
f i am unlucky and get a speeding fine will the unions pay it for me, i know urtu will.
URTU will pay a ‘grant’ up to £100 per occasion and a max of 2 per year after the fine(s) has been paid - you still get the points though
Top membership scale for the above applies
del949:
avoid USDAW, in my experience they are a complete waste of space.
Im a USDAW rep and have been looking after my members for over 4yrs, and yes i agree they are a waste of space, no rep back up, no clue about transport, and im currently going to tribunal for the 2nd time with same employer and they are useless!! I sorted my last tribunal out myself and proved them wrong and got my job back myself the day before tribunal!
Reps do it to help others for free!!, area organisers are paid and should know more- but dont!!
All unions are much the same- crap!
Would gladly give you my union,United Steelworkers of North America,all they do for me is lighten my paycheck every two weeks.Maybe they had a role in the past ,but nowadays workers just hide behind the union as a means of doing less work.
None at present, but from what I know & is backed up by the recent news, is that UNITE pay the Labour Party to play a role in deciding who their leaders are (or, which Briton shafting, pro-EU puppet gets to ride the Gravy Train next), etc, etc.
So that definitely rules them out for me.
Meanwhile, I understand that URTU are politically impartial and costs just over an hours wage per month for membership, which I understand to be tax-deductable, grown-up and sensible - but do I need or enjoy the admin’? I sent off for details from their www site and got a professional & posted response ASAP. Sorry, URTU, for being a bit sceptical. Perhaps I need a follow-up push or a chat down the pub with a member?
There I am with my jury remaining pending over ‘what to do’. So I’m doing it (ie, nothing). That’s largely because as has been said on here, the law is watertight in favour of employers so my adage is to be honest, pleasant, safe & legal, which seems to work.
I hope to chuff that I’m not being ‘jack’ about it all because, erring toward honesty & historically knowing what decent grafters have done for my present comfort, I’d like to help reign in pending (but nasty & mean-spirited) ‘rules and conditions’ that my work-mate successors might get jiffed by.
Finally, I do wish that some of the blokes wearing ‘Shop Steward’ hi-viz vests in the place I’m often at wouldn’t be so aloof/■■■■-sure/gobby/lazy looking …or at least acknowledge that agency bods are human too - because those combined images are sooo destructive.
greggy:
hiya guys, i want to join a union so what union are you in.
whats yours and why. cheers.
i joined the S.E.E.M. {SOD EVERYONE EXEPT ME} don,t waste your money
Hiya i agree with brown cow. Then again i,am very intrested. i worked for a company about 16 years,(they had 6 drivers) Then a outside company come in and took over the transport. we was just employed into their system .(2 p) we contacted the union and they said
they would,nt represent so few drivers and refused to come and have a meeting with us.(i paid extra dues to cover fines and other problems) so we just got pushed to one side. Guess what we was covered by the Mold area union office NORTH WALES the same area as brown cow 2".that was 10 years ago maybe to late to stir things up now.
John
greggy:
hiya guys, i want to join a union so what union are you in.
whats yours and why. cheers.
i joined the S.E.E.M. {SOD EVERYONE EXEPT ME} don,t waste your money
Hiya i agree with brown cow. Then again i,am very intrested. i worked for a company about 16 years,(they had 6 drivers) Then a outside company come in and took over the transport. we was just employed into their system .(2 p) we contacted the union and they said
they would,nt represent so few drivers and refused to come and have a meeting with us.(i paid extra dues to cover fines and other problems) so we just got pushed to one side. Guess what we was covered by the Mold area union office NORTH WALES the same area as brown cow 2".that was 10 years ago maybe to late to stir things up now.
John
Hiya … just found a old pay slip union sub £2.55 per week x 52 weeks x 18ish years £2386.8 approx who was the fool …not them
When did the tgwu last strike for more money… before my time if ever.
John
When did the tgwu last strike for more money… before my time if ever
the last time they went on strike was the last time the MEMBERS voted to.
No union can call a strike without a BALLOT.
Any strike nowadays has to be the absolute final action as the laws are so restrictive regarding this action.
Unless the workers are prepared to strike and risk the sack then the only way a union can campaign is by political means. This generally comes down to funding the Labour Party and sponsoring some MP’s as a means to influence policy.I agree though that this has not been particularly effective in the last years.
The comment re the union not representing a company of a few drivers as they were not enough members I find appalling and very surprising.
If the members concerned had any knowledge of the unions structure then they would have known that they could go over the head of the “officer” who made that statement and would have received representation. Having worked at companies where I was the only union member I have never had this problem, but that may be partly that I attend branch meetings and get involved in the union, thus they are more likely to hear me.
ANY union can only be as strong as the support it receives from its members and I don’t just mean financial support.
Certainly unions are not perfect but I think that they are the best we have got to look after our interests in a wider sense and given more support they could a better job, providing members do get involved and bring pressure to bear on the executive council etc.
If they were any good do you think you would be working the hours you do, no toilets not enough parking, carry the can for the boss, did you know people now work 38 hours for a decent wage hols toilets ,perks ect ect…Keep your money buy p bonds or somthing but dont give them it
Please explain how things will get changed for the better without unions.
There is no-one else standing up for workers.
Unions are far from perfect but they are all we have in terms of a concerted voice.
If union members realised that just paying their subs was not enough then maybe we could get things moving, but I won’t hold my breath.
Sadly many trade union members have very little knowledge of the workings of the union. They seem to be unaware that if they do not like the way the union is being run, then they have the means to get it changed.
Having worked with some redundant miners it is obvious that many went into the strikes with their eyes closed.
Many blame Maggie Thatcher for the demise of jobs, but you have to look at how the Labour government behaved. I do not agree with unions pulling the strings of the government. If you look back you will see that most industries went down the pan due to the outrageous demands of unions.
The current dispute betwwen BA and Unite is just such an example.
