Carryfast:
the road sector now needing to be costed by the hour not the mile because there’s no longer enough miles in the job to make it worthwhile otherwise.
Anyone who has costed by the mile is a muppet. Costs have always fallen into time and mileage components and one, (contained within maintenance) falls into both. You do periodic maintenance - inspections and services - whether the wheels turn or not.
Yes you have fixed ‘costs’.But revenues can only be earn’t in the form of miles including the revenues earn’t to pay for the fixed costs.Unless you’ve got a customer who is happy to pay by the hour for all the time the truck is sitting going nowhere to meet the government’s aims of minimising the mileage travelled by trucks.When in the real world we know that all costs are factored into the mileage rate.No miles no revenue.Which if I’ve read it right is what everyone is moaning about.IE customers won’t pay by the hour for a truck to be sitting going no where.Who would have thought it.
Some local work may be only a mile or so from the collection/delivery point. The haulier is not going to be paid a couple of quid for the mileage. Most container haulage rates are defined by a ‘local’ rate that extends to a certain pre-defined radius.
The real issue for container hauliers is the battle to be productive and therefore profitable in the face of bottlenecks at railheads and ports etc. This is a real issue, and has been for years. As wages rise, it will become a bigger issue for hauliers, as rates are not moving.
As wages rise, that will hopefully purge the overcapacity of operators in the market, and it should also draw in more workers willing to drive.
When the capacity reaches the right level, operators will then charge the customers what it costs to put up with the bottlenecks, and the ports may then invest in measures to reduce them (because by reducing the bottlenecks, they will be able to capture as profits what is otherwise being wasted on wages).
It might also drive the investment in new ports and railheads, or better systems in existing ones.
The problem with boxes is the lines don’t charge the customers enough. I loaded a box full of red bull in Barking and the guy showed me the invoice from Maersk. £900 Barking to Pakistan
Carryfast:
the road sector now needing to be costed by the hour not the mile because there’s no longer enough miles in the job to make it worthwhile otherwise.
Anyone who has costed by the mile is a muppet. Costs have always fallen into time and mileage components and one, (contained within maintenance) falls into both. You do periodic maintenance - inspections and services - whether the wheels turn or not.
Yes you have fixed ‘costs’.But revenues can only be earn’t in the form of miles including the revenues earn’t to pay for the fixed costs.Unless you’ve got a customer who is happy to pay by the hour for all the time the truck is sitting going nowhere to meet the government’s aims of minimising the mileage travelled by trucks.When in the real world we know that all costs are factored into the mileage rate.No miles no revenue.Which if I’ve read it right is what everyone is moaning about.IE customers won’t pay by the hour for a truck to be sitting going no where.Who would have thought it.
Don’t taxis charge waiting time?
Whichever way you try and cover costs the customer will complain about, hours plus miles or hours including miles. It has always been the situation and probably always will be. As I’ve said before the British road transport industry is possibly the most generous charity in the world.
Carryfast:
IE customers won’t pay by the hour for a truck to be sitting going no where.Who would have thought it.
Some local work may be only a mile or so from the collection/delivery point. The haulier is not going to be paid a couple of quid for the mileage. Most container haulage rates are defined by a ‘local’ rate that extends to a certain pre-defined radius.
The real issue for container hauliers is the battle to be productive and therefore profitable in the face of bottlenecks at railheads and ports etc. This is a real issue, and has been for years. As wages rise, it will become a bigger issue for hauliers, as rates are not moving.
Firstly it’s obvious that local runs by definition mean that trucks will be spending more time in queues waiting and loading/tipping at the collection delivery transhipment point than on the road.The fact that all the resulting time obviously isn’t being covered by the rate proves that customers won’t pay for a truck to be sitting going no where just to deliver their stuff a few miles up the road.On that note try changeing the rate structure from ‘local rate’ to hourly rate and then see what happens.It’s obvious that short haul intermodal will only work in that case as an in house operation in which the rail/shipping sector runs the road transport side too in which the contradiction of trying to make a profit from haulage which involves not enough mileage can be factored into the rail or shipping rate.While the arrangement as it stands is just the road transport sector acting like a charity,as an unpaid errand service,in taking the hit of the economic flaw in short haul inter modal freight movement ( expensive to buy and run equipment unnecessarily ■■■■■■■ in moving stuff no where and being paid to match ).All to provide the rail sector with long haul work which could/would otherwise go to pay for the fixed running costs of the truck and the mugs doing it thinking that it’s good for them.
On that note the other obvious option is to pull out of short haul work and then let the rail freight sector/shipping lines run their own local work road operations on the basis that money talks.Which then leaves the rail sector with the headache of loads of trucks having to be paid for but not enough revenue in the job to cover it because the customer won’t pay twice for both a train and a truck to deliver their stuff.Which is how the road transport industry got to where it is/was from the similar 2nd class down trodden local errand service,to suit the rail freight interests,which it mostly was during the 1920’s/30’s.
I’ve never done boxes but always been of the impression unless your on direct for shipping lines rates are very low and lots of waiting about and there’s always more willing victims to have there pants pulled down to say they have there own lorry
OVLOV JAY:
The problem with boxes is the lines don’t charge the customers enough. I loaded a box full of red bull in Barking and the guy showed me the invoice from Maersk. £900 Barking to Pakistan
Bet they cover there costs though.
Slightly off topic a mate of mine runs about 25 tippers and had a letter from one of his customers a large groundwork and civil engineering outfit this week.
Basic just of it was due to brexit uncertainty and suchlike you best not raise your prices if you want out work next year.
Now he is one of these blokes who won’t work for poor rates but said he knows he will loose work from them at least in the short term as there’s to many in the industry who can’t work a calculator
OVLOV JAY:
The problem with boxes is the lines don’t charge the customers enough. I loaded a box full of red bull in Barking and the guy showed me the invoice from Maersk. £900 Barking to Pakistan
Bet they cover there costs though.
Slightly off topic a mate of mine runs about 25 tippers and had a letter from one of his customers a large groundwork and civil engineering outfit this week.
Basic just of it was due to brexit uncertainty and suchlike you best not raise your prices if you want out work next year.
Now he is one of these blokes who won’t work for poor rates but said he knows he will loose work from them at least in the short term as there’s to many in the industry who can’t work a calculator
Is your mate an example of those who can’t work a calculator? Because what you seem to be saying is that he intends to drop his trousers next year and forego the increase!
The real problem is not that too many cannot work a calculator, it is simply that there are too many competing with each other for the same pool of work.
Everyone can see they’re getting shafted and buying work, but for now none of them are willing to be the ones who leave the market to do something else (including, as the case may be, partner up or seek employment with another operator). And presumably, things are not so tight that a bank manager is telling anyone to leave the market.
Fellas will feel the pain until some of them throw their cards in, and the rest will then threaten that man’s old customers that they either pay the going rate or their goods don’t move.
It’s the nature of the market mechanism that there is no operational stability, but instead there is a constant oscillation between an influx of speculators and an outflow of bankrupts, and everyone in between feels a constant squeeze and nobody can plan for the future or settle into the occupation.
kr79:
I’ve never done boxes but always been of the impression unless your on direct for shipping lines rates are very low and lots of waiting about and there’s always more willing victims to have there pants pulled down to say they have there own lorry
If it’s all short haul work that can only mean a much higher proportion of waiting/loading/tipping time taken out of a working day of the truck.With little chance of the customer wanting to pay for it in the form of an hourly rate,or a much higher mileage rate,for local work.
Surprised that anyone ‘owning their own lorry’ would accept such work and guessing that hauling directly for the shipping lines by definition means being able to turn down too many local runs and obviously having nothing whatsoever to do with short haul inter modal road rail operations ?.
kr79:
I’ve never done boxes but always been of the impression unless your on direct for shipping lines rates are very low and lots of waiting about and there’s always more willing victims to have there pants pulled down to say they have there own lorry
If it’s all short haul work that can only mean a much higher proportion of waiting/loading/tipping time taken out of a working day of the truck.With little chance of the customer wanting to pay for it in the form of an hourly rate,or a much higher mileage rate,for local work.
Surprised that anyone ‘owning their own lorry’ would accept such work and guessing that hauling directly for the shipping lines by definition means being able to turn down too many local runs and obviously having nothing whatsoever to do with short haul inter modal road rail operations ?.
Don’t be surprised. It can be extremely profitable.
OVLOV JAY:
The problem with boxes is the lines don’t charge the customers enough. I loaded a box full of red bull in Barking and the guy showed me the invoice from Maersk. £900 Barking to Pakistan
Bet they cover there costs though.
Slightly off topic a mate of mine runs about 25 tippers and had a letter from one of his customers a large groundwork and civil engineering outfit this week.
Basic just of it was due to brexit uncertainty and suchlike you best not raise your prices if you want out work next year.
Now he is one of these blokes who won’t work for poor rates but said he knows he will loose work from them at least in the short term as there’s to many in the industry who can’t work a calculator
Is your mate an example of those who can’t work a calculator? Because what you seem to be saying is that he intends to drop his trousers next year and forego the increase!
The real problem is not that too many cannot work a calculator, it is simply that there are too many competing with each other for the same pool of work.
Everyone can see they’re getting shafted and buying work, but for now none of them are willing to be the ones who leave the market to do something else (including, as the case may be, partner up or seek employment with another operator). And presumably, things are not so tight that a bank manager is telling anyone to leave the market.
Fellas will feel the pain until some of them throw their cards in, and the rest will then threaten that man’s old customers that they either pay the going rate or their goods don’t move.
It’s the nature of the market mechanism that there is no operational stability, but instead there is a constant oscillation between an influx of speculators and an outflow of bankrupts, and everyone in between feels a constant squeeze and nobody can plan for the future or settle into the occupation.
No he won’t be cutting rates he will be pricing jobs according to what his costs are at the time. Fuel has gone up a bit recently so price will be based on that not last years fuel proce
kr79:
I’ve never done boxes but always been of the impression unless your on direct for shipping lines rates are very low and lots of waiting about and there’s always more willing victims to have there pants pulled down to say they have there own lorry
If it’s all short haul work that can only mean a much higher proportion of waiting/loading/tipping time taken out of a working day of the truck.With little chance of the customer wanting to pay for it in the form of an hourly rate,or a much higher mileage rate,for local work.
Surprised that anyone ‘owning their own lorry’ would accept such work and guessing that hauling directly for the shipping lines by definition means being able to turn down too many local runs and obviously having nothing whatsoever to do with short haul inter modal road rail operations ?.
Everyone I know who has done boxes has said only way to make it pay is stay local as rates on mileage are so low fuel takes up to much of the revenue
I believe to be in direct for the shipping line you need to be running 20+ trucks and will make both long and short haul pay. By the time an agent or two has taken a cut the rates are pretty rubbish.
