Two card shuffle

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

It is about time that this government were opposed by left and right for getting us into a proxy war that NONE of us voted for.

On top of the Pandemic, the last thing this country needed was to pick a fight with a nuclear superpower over the invasion of a country that was theirs to begin with.
EU and NATO arguments that “It was democratic for the EU/NATO to annex Ukaine following the collapse of the Soviet Union more than 30 years ago” - might hold some water IF a referendum was held, and recognized - which of course, wasn’t the case.

“No longer being able to be pulled into such foreign wars” was also one of the many reasons we voted to Leave the EU as well, don’t forget.

What use is the entire “Rule of Law” concept, if it is only a stick to beat a country’s own population with?
That’s surely where the line is drawn between “Democratically elected government” and “Wicked Totalitarian Regime”…

This country’s response to Covid (Shutting down the economy) was wrong.
This country’s response to Ukraine (Damaging our economy further) was also wrong.

The next general election is supposedly in 2024. We need a political party that stands against both further Covid sanctions upon the British people AND the futher worsening of our entire standard of living from higher interest rates, higher cost of living, and higher energy bills - all thanks to the needless proxy war against Russia we’re now balls-deep in.

As for Putin - he figured that he could just help himself, with the rest of the world doing nothing, like in 2014…
He must have thought “The west won’t deliberately trash their economies, and turn their entire public against them - merely to stop me would they”?
Boy, did he figure THAT one out wrong!

Maybe some international arrest warrants should go out against people who’ve led countless individuals in THIS country to top themselves (cutting benefits, cancelling operations, can’t afford to eat, can’t afford to be buried even…) and stop sucking upto foreign actors who would have us all dead, rather than see the rest of the world go “I’m alright Jack” and leave them to it to solve their own problems…

If Keir Starmer stands up and pledges to cut Ukraine loose, and hold a people’s QE with no more bailouts for millionaires - I’d be voting Labour for the first time in my life.
I won’t be holding my breath though, as Labour as as balls-deep “run by foreign actors” as the Tories are right now, and have been for some time…

22

^^^^^ I think you’re on the wrong thread mate :confused: :confused: :confused:

23

tachograph:
^^^^^ I think you’re on the wrong thread mate :confused: :confused: :confused:

I thought that but couldn’t see any that the post belonged to either.

Did Zelenskyy have introduction of EU regs for freight as one of his election pledges?

24

Driver goes to jail for breaking rules, but others who’ve actually killed people, or at least led them to their deaths - get to become millionaires, and NEVER go to jail.

25

njl:

tachograph:
^^^^^ I think you’re on the wrong thread mate :confused: :confused: :confused:

I thought that but couldn’t see any that the post belonged to either.

Did Zelenskyy have introduction of EU regs for freight as one of his election pledges?

Zelensky has taken over our parliament so they worry about his cause, rather than the cause of the British People that are dying every damned day now, thanks to the neglect of the entire westminster establishment…

We seem to have forgotten our value set in this country - don’t we?

26

Errr… OK, but wouldn’t you be happier posting the politics in, for example, trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … 2&t=174493

Incidentally, I think if we don’t help Ukraine fight off Putin over there, we’ll eventually be doing it uncomfortably closer to home. That’s the problem with these organized Richard Heads (Hitler, Stalin, Putin et al) they don’t know when to stop, and the longer you wait, the harder it is to do it.

27

Zac_A:
So you’re “in the dock” facing revocation of your O-licence, and rather than trying to focus on any potential mitigating factors to persuade the TC you ain’t really a bad guy at all, you’re going to dig your heels in over a comment that has no bearing whatsoever on the actual outcome of the PI? OK :unamused:

It’s not stand your ground on 1 point then you can’t on another, so like I said, if I got accused of not taking a 45 minute break after driving between 4:20 and 4:29 before supervising a learner driver, then I would definitely point out that there’s no requirement too.

Anyway, you’re missing the original point I made, the TC got this basic rule wrong

28

Zac_A:
Errr… OK, but wouldn’t you be happier posting the politics in, for example, trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … 2&t=174493

Incidentally, I think if we don’t help Ukraine fight off Putin over there, we’ll eventually be doing it uncomfortably closer to home. That’s the problem with these organized Richard Heads (Hitler, Stalin, Putin et al) they don’t know when to stop, and the longer you wait, the harder it is to do it.

Were we not made to “worry about Russians nuking us” back in the 80’s, bearing in mind that it took our minds off the mass unemployment that was the Thatcher era?

I suspect all this anti-Putin stuff - is the same old thing, all over again.

Personally, I’m more worried about

(1) Losing my health
(2) Losing my job
(3) Losing my life

Putin isn’t about to invade Western Europe any more than We are about to invade China imo…

29

tachograph:
^^^^^ I think you’re on the wrong thread mate :confused: :confused: :confused:

Wrong ■■■■■■■ planet, you mean.

30

stevieboy308:
Anyway, you’re missing the original point I made, the TC got this basic rule wrong

No I’m not missing it, I’d already accepted that argument as a “TN Win”, I’m saying the reality is that outside of TN Brownie Points it really does not matter one jot. In the Public Inquiry it would be a classic pyrrhic victory, just adding to the overall impression the TC already has of “here is a person who cannot see what is really important as the holder of an O-licence”.

It’s also immaterial because I would guarantee that had former-driver and former O-licence holder Kevin Roy Griggs piped up with that argument, his solicitor would have been telling him in no uncertain terms to wind his neck in or find another legal representative. I’ve seen one well known transport solicitor actually shushing her client like he was a naughty child when he was digging himself deeper into a hole.

Here’s a link which includes a relevant video; I previously shared with that nutter Ahoy Truckers when he was spouting off about how he was going to put the TC in his place :laughing:

Its a Driver Conduct Hearing rather than a PI, but it still makes the point that the TC “is no shop egg”. Coincidentally it features the TC in question, Nick Denton.
transportengineer.org.uk/tr … ng/222998/

31

Zac_A:

stevieboy308:
Anyway, you’re missing the original point I made, the TC got this basic rule wrong

No I’m not missing it, I’d already accepted that argument as a “TN Win”, I’m saying the reality is that outside of TN Brownie Points it really does not matter one jot. In the Public Inquiry it would be a classic pyrrhic victory, just adding to the overall impression the TC already has of “here is a person who cannot see what is really important as the holder of an O-licence”.

It’s also immaterial because I would guarantee that had former-driver and former O-licence holder Kevin Roy Griggs piped up with that argument, his solicitor would have been telling him in no uncertain terms to wind his neck in or find another legal representative. I’ve seen one well known transport solicitor actually shushing her client like he was a naughty child when he was digging himself deeper into a hole.

Here’s a link which includes a relevant video; I previously shared with that nutter Ahoy Truckers when he was spouting off about how he was going to put the TC in his place :laughing:

Its a Driver Conduct Hearing rather than a PI, but it still makes the point that the TC “is no shop egg”. Coincidentally it features the TC in question, Nick Denton.
transportengineer.org.uk/tr … ng/222998/

Again, I raised the point purely that the TC doesn’t understand a basic rule, I think that that matters. That’s it, no need for straw man arguments about the relevance in this particular case or not. That’s it, a TC doesn’t understand a basic rule.

32

stevieboy308:
Again, I raised the point purely that the TC doesn’t understand a basic rule, I think that that matters. That’s it, no need for straw man arguments about the relevance in this particular case or not. That’s it, a TC doesn’t understand a basic rule.

The relevance in this case is clear and is as far from a Straw Man argument as you can get. Griggs was a dangerous idiot who was never going to escape unscathed and challenging the point about whether he did or did not need a break would have done nothing to help him.

33

stevieboy308:

Zac_A:

stevieboy308:
Anyway, you’re missing the original point I made, the TC got this basic rule wrong

Again, I raised the point purely that the TC doesn’t understand a basic rule, I think that that matters. That’s it, no need for straw man arguments about the relevance in this particular case or not. That’s it, a TC doesn’t understand a basic rule.

I’ll stick my neck out here, perhaps you’ve misinterpreted was said! What the TC notes was the driver was brilliant at time management and repeatedly managed to get the 2nd druver to take over and immediately start driving when he had ONE minute short of the 4 1/2 hrs, so didn’t need to take a break, never 4.31, 4.32, but always just under!!! Thereby avoiding any form of infringements being raised.
IMHO, the whole point of the 2nd card was to falsely show he didn’t need to take a rest!

34

Zac_A:

stevieboy308:
Again, I raised the point purely that the TC doesn’t understand a basic rule, I think that that matters. That’s it, no need for straw man arguments about the relevance in this particular case or not. That’s it, a TC doesn’t understand a basic rule.

The relevance in this case is clear and is as far from a Straw Man argument as you can get. Griggs was a dangerous idiot who was never going to escape unscathed and challenging the point about whether he did or did not need a break would have done nothing to help him.

Again, I raised this purely about the TC getting it wrong, that’s it, don’t overthink it

35

Acorn:

stevieboy308:

Zac_A:

stevieboy308:
Anyway, you’re missing the original point I made, the TC got this basic rule wrong

Again, I raised the point purely that the TC doesn’t understand a basic rule, I think that that matters. That’s it, no need for straw man arguments about the relevance in this particular case or not. That’s it, a TC doesn’t understand a basic rule.

I’ll stick my neck out here, perhaps you’ve misinterpreted was said! What the TC notes was the driver was brilliant at time management and repeatedly managed to get the 2nd druver to take over and immediately start driving when he had ONE minute short of the 4 1/2 hrs, so didn’t need to take a break, never 4.31, 4.32, but always just under!!! Thereby avoiding any form of infringements being raised.
IMHO, the whole point of the 2nd card was to falsely show he didn’t need to take a rest!

I don’t think anyone would bet their house or
a tin of beans that he was telling the truth.

This is what the TC said

“Mr Griggs claimed not to be aware of the need to insert his card into slot 2. He also seems to have been unaware of the requirement for a driver to take a break after 4.5 hours of driving. Supervising driving by a learner should be recorded as “other work”: even assuming Mr Griggs’s account is correct, he should not have carried on in the cab without first taking a break;”

Why? There’s no mention that he was on 6 hours of working time.

If I actually did 4:29 driving then supervised a learner, I could do it straight away without a break so long as wasn’t on 6 hours of working time, the TC would say I’d need a break 1st, he’s wrong.

36

Then you’re entitled to voice your opinion directly to him to set him on the right path in case he misleads anyone else with his sub-standard knowledge.

Shouldn’t be too hard to touch base with him. I don’t have his direct contact details unfortunately, but he works alongside his old mate Bev these days, since stepping down as a TC; the pair of them double-team TM Refreshers. I’m certain one of Ms Bell’s dedicated minions would be happy to pass your message along.

training@beverleybell.co.uk
consulting@beverleybell.co.uk

37

Zac_A:
Then you’re entitled to voice your opinion directly to him to set him on the right path in case he misleads anyone else with his sub-standard knowledge.

Shouldn’t be too hard to touch base with him. I don’t have his direct contact details unfortunately, but he works alongside his old mate Bev these days, since stepping down as a TC; the pair of them double-team TM Refreshers. I’m certain one of Ms Bell’s dedicated minions would be happy to pass your message along.

training@beverleybell.co.uk
consulting@beverleybell.co.uk

Glad you eventually agree it was sub standard, got there in the end

38

stevieboy308:
I don’t think anyone would bet their house or
a tin of beans that he was telling the truth.

.

If I actually did 4:29 driving then supervised a learner, I could do it straight away without a break so long as wasn’t on 6 hours of working time, the TC would say I’d need a break 1st, he’s wrong.

You’re right about stopping then showing it as other work. But that’s not what was happening in this case. The driver was magically Consisterly stopping at 4.29, then stopping cards.

What’s so surprising is whoever did the investigation didn’t look at prosecuting for fraudulent records!!

39

stevieboy308:
Glad you eventually agree it was sub standard, got there in the end

Don’t forget to post Nick Denton’s response to your critique of his capabilities after you’ve made use of the contact details I gave you.

40

Acorn:

stevieboy308:
I don’t think anyone would bet their house or
a tin of beans that he was telling the truth.

.

If I actually did 4:29 driving then supervised a learner, I could do it straight away without a break so long as wasn’t on 6 hours of working time, the TC would say I’d need a break 1st, he’s wrong.

You’re right about stopping then showing it as other work. But that’s not what was happening in this case. The driver was magically Consisterly stopping at 4.29, then stopping cards.

What’s so surprising is whoever did the investigation didn’t look at prosecuting for fraudulent records!!

We all know what was happening! The TC said, even if his version was true, then he would need a break before supervising a learner, he wouldn’t, that’s the point I was making!