ROG:
How many cyclists are killed or seriously injured by colliding with motor vehicles
How many pedestrians are killed or seriously injured by colliding with cyclists
berewic:
Too many.
To which question are you referring 
Which is the greater out of the two - more cyclists by motor vehicles or more pedestrians by cyclists
There is some CLASSIC stuff on this thread. 
Berwic, your story about the stick is a sure-fire entrant into the MMTM Hall of Fame! Good stuff, keep it up. 
I’m sure many cyclists, particularly in urban areas do break numerous rules. But lets be fair, cyclists are responsible for very few accidents with pedestrians and even fewer fatalities. Cyclists who take chances on the roads, do so at their own risk usually which doesn’t necessarily make it any better but the raw fact is a car jumping a red light is a danger to everyone, a cyclist isnt’. Doesn’t make it right but its a fact.
I am surprised by some of the anti-bike vitriol spouted by people on here. At the end of the day, of the ‘nuisance road users’ bikes are surely the lesser of all evils? Caravans are longer, wider and require far more room to pass. Tractors are the same but slower and horses are unpredicatable and you need to go very queitly past them. The majority of road users (i.e. car drivers) would class HGV’s in the ‘nuisance road user’ category and would classify trucks as the biggest pain in the backside. I have always considered as a wagon driver that I have a certain solidarity with other ‘minority road groups’ (not caravans obviously) and that we should all try to look out for each other where possible.
What nobody seems to have considered is that some people use bikes as their only means of transport. Not everyone can afford a car or motorbike. Saying they should only use the pavement or bike lanes is A-dangerous for pedestrians and B-ignoring the fact that bike lanes frequently don’t go anywhere! The cycle tracks in my area are littered with sharp stones, broken glass and debris flicked up off the main roads. My 22mm wide racing tyres will last about five minutes! Fact is, the roads shouldn’t be the preserve of only those who can afford motorised transport.
Is a bit of understanding too much to ask? Obviously not reading some of this…
mick palmer:
After 20 years of trouble with my left knee ( Driving F88s,F10s,DAFs and leyland Roadtrains heavy clutches and football the causes) i had an operation to rebuild it in August 2008. To build the strength back up ive been riding my bike on the roads around Red House nr Doncaster.Im sorry to say some of the driving from so called HGV drivers is apalling, why do they insist on leaving very little space between their truck and myself,(i wear my hi-viz so i can be seen) anything less than 1 metre is too close. I know some cyclists are a pain but dont tar them all with the same brush,if you come up behind one get off the gas and wait till there’s enough room to pass safely. And just a quick thankyou to the Scania (red with white stripes,step frame van trailer)driver this morning A638/A1 junction you are type im on a about. Park your truck up there will be a professional driver along soon!!
Quiet ironic that we have to not tar all cyclist with the same brush BUT your on tarring all HGV/LGV drivers with the same brush !
personaly i allways give cyclist plenty of room, same for motorcylcists ! not only for there saftey but for my pride in doing a profesionaly job !
hammer:
I’m sure many cyclists, particularly in urban areas do break numerous rules. But lets be fair, cyclists are responsible for very few accidents with pedestrians and even fewer fatalities. Cyclists who take chances on the roads, do so at their own risk usually which doesn’t necessarily make it any better but the raw fact is a car jumping a red light is a danger to everyone, a cyclist isnt’. Doesn’t make it right but its a fact.
Correct but after doing this at their own risk and coming unstuck the driver of the motor vehicle is usually blamed. This is what annoys me.
Fallmonk wrote
“Quiet ironic that we have to not tar all cyclist with the same brush BUT your on tarring all HGV/LGV drivers with the same brush !
personaly i allways give cyclist plenty of room, same for motorcylcists ! not only for there saftey but for my pride in doing a profesionaly job” !
The point i was making, due to the fact that drivers who should know better ie: HGV drivers, was that whilst im riding on the road why must i be subjected to near misses by trucks.
I was not saying at all that it was all HGVs. IM a HGV driver but i have a great deal of pride in the job i do,a little courtesy towards all road users goes along way…its also less stressful at the end of the day.
We could start another argument on the standards of HGV driving because as far i can can see its not
good,there seems to be no time for anything or anybody and that includes other truck drivers.
I will not let anybody slag off HGV drivers, and i have been known to write to the daily newspapers if anybody has, but i will not stand up for poor driving by HGV drivers.
Do you not think its about time HGV drivers reclaimed the title “Knights of the road” .To do this we need to treat every road user irrespective of the mode of transport with respect.
mick palmer:
Do you not think its about time HGV drivers reclaimed the title “Knights of the road” .To do this we need to treat every road user irrespective of the mode of transport with respect.
Yes but so long as “other” road users treat us with respect which sometimes they dont, it works both way 
i nearly fell out with a merc driver yesterday, came off the m11 s/b to join the m25 to pick up the a10, the on ramp frm the m11 to the m25 goes down to 1 lane and is now a 40 mph limit. I checked my mirrors, all was clear indicated and pulled into the second lane of the on ramp just before the cones started. Just as i got into the second lane i saw a silver car coming up behind me, thought no more of it because i assumed they would join the m25 behind me, but no 
.
They for some reason decided they didnt want to wait and join the m25 after me and decided to try (and fail) to squeeze past me by giving his car some welly in the left hand lane which was closed ahead, nothing i could of done as if i had braked he still would not of made it and smashed into the cones . I honestly dont know how he didnt hit the side of my truck, but he backed off at the last min 
, joined a split second after me and then he sped of clearly not doing 40 mph!!! Why could he not of waiting, it was not as though i was in the second lane way before i needed to be, i waiting to the last min
So it’s alright saying we should treat “other” road users with respect, which i agree and dont have problem with, but it will only work it the “other” road user treat us with a bit of respect as well 
mick palmer:
‘…its not good,there seems to be no time for anything or anybody and that includes other truck drivers…’
Hmmm, it may sometimes appear that way - but I too like your notion of staying polite, happy & healthy. That said:
groovy greg:
‘… nothing i could of done…’
Maybe give him the horn? Since it might seem as if communication plays a significant part …if nothing else it let’s them know that my vehicle has a human in it because I’m sure many see LGV’s as being void of humanity.
Back on thread re’ ‘communication’, I’ll frequently wave to thank a passing LGV from my bike when they leave a good ol’ space, bless 'em…
hammer:
There is some CLASSIC stuff on this thread.Berwic, your story about the stick is a sure-fire entrant into the MMTM Hall of Fame! Good stuff, keep it up.
I’m sure many cyclists, particularly in urban areas do break numerous rules. But lets be fair, cyclists are responsible for very few accidents with pedestrians and even fewer fatalities. Cyclists who take chances on the roads, do so at their own risk usually which doesn’t necessarily make it any better but the raw fact is a car jumping a red light is a danger to everyone, a cyclist isnt’. Doesn’t make it right but its a fact.
I am surprised by some of the anti-bike vitriol spouted by people on here. At the end of the day, of the ‘nuisance road users’ bikes are surely the lesser of all evils? Caravans are longer, wider and require far more room to pass. Tractors are the same but slower and horses are unpredicatable and you need to go very queitly past them. The majority of road users (i.e. car drivers) would class HGV’s in the ‘nuisance road user’ category and would classify trucks as the biggest pain in the backside. I have always considered as a wagon driver that I have a certain solidarity with other ‘minority road groups’ (not caravans obviously) and that we should all try to look out for each other where possible.
What nobody seems to have considered is that some people use bikes as their only means of transport. Not everyone can afford a car or motorbike. Saying they should only use the pavement or bike lanes is A-dangerous for pedestrians and B-ignoring the fact that bike lanes frequently don’t go anywhere! The cycle tracks in my area are littered with sharp stones, broken glass and debris [zb] up off the main roads. My 22mm wide racing tyres will last about five minutes! Fact is, the roads shouldn’t be the preserve of only those who can afford motorised transport.
Is a bit of understanding too much to ask? Obviously not reading some of this…
Hammer, I don’t understand the big deal about the stick story. It wasn’t meant to be a big deal or a story, just a fact. I know little about your part of the woods, other than I took a climbing course in your area in my mid teens. I have been in your town only once and the walk back to my course centre showed me the narrow roads and the problems they would cause to everybody. All my cyclist comments are based on my experiences in Oxford and don’t necessarily follow they are the same throughout the country. My argument is based on the fact that if cyclists took responsibility for their own safty there would be fewer problems, accidents and fatalities rather than expecting every one else to look out for them when they are not prepared to look out for themselves. Again that is an Oxford experience and it may not follow that it’s the same in your part of the world.
Saying that I took a course based in Haford Murick. I don’t know if that was the name of the course centre or the name of the hamlet it was in. I’m sure the spelling is wrong as for the life of me I can’t find it on the map anywhere. I was 15yrs old at the time and still at school. I thought I was going on a canoeing/sailing course only to find for the next two weeks I would be climbing mountains and walking around in the snow with ice axes and sleeping in huts in the middle of nowhere, wet cold and peed off. If you know this hamlet or centre it would be much appreciated if you could let me know where it is/was. I know it’s about 10/15 miles east of your town. I was walking for hours with a few others when we got picked up by one of the instructors who had been sent out to find us after we had “legged it” for a night out on the ■■■■.
berewic:
‘…All my cyclist comments are based on my experiences in Oxford…’
If it’s any consolation & having cycled around there 20 years ago on trips whilst living in nearby Abingdon, the Oxford two-wheeled breed also seemed generically hostile amongst themselves. I recall stopping at a red light and getting my ankle clipped (ouch, ya-bassa!) because I had impeded some fancy-■■■ academic/hoity-toity type evidently too busy for the niceties of the Highway Code.
I grant you that all arrogant/dangerous/abusive cyclists everywhere perhaps need their attitude clipping to benefit all road users…but:
a. Plod seem too busy, too few in number or too sensitive to being hated by the hypocritical Joe Public to prioritise it.
b. There are scant votes for politicians/councilors to be bothered too much either.
c. The stick story really does demand a vivid imagination as to how/why the stick was so readily at hand to be effortlessly poked at the victim’s treader.
paul@midway:
I ride to work now and again. 11 mile round trip.
I use a mixture of road, pavement and cycle lanes on pavements.
For the most part it is downhill and I can do 25-30 mph nearly all the way.
One steep hill to climb on the way in on a fast road, so considering my speed up the hill is about 6 mph I opt to use the pavement for my safety.Cars,vans,trucks will struggle to pass me if there is oncoming traffic.So no thanks not getting tangled up in that, it’s pavement for me on the uphill.
The traffic lights over the bridge I have to get off the road , use the crossings and then get on the pavement again and use the cycle marked lane.No cycles allowed on the road over the bridge.
Into town I now use the crossing opposite the cop shop to get on the right side of the road for work.The road and junction is too dangerous and I would be knocked off for sure.Most people jump the lights and at speed and bits of cars end up everywhere , regardless of the cop shop being there.From that crossing it is a 300 yard potter along the wide pavement to work.Back home it is all uphill and hard work, same again . Mixture of road,cycle lane and pavement for my own safety.At 4-5am any car that appears is at least twice the legal limit for the roads and I like to keep out of the way of them.
I’m also guilty of hopping onto the pavement in the early hours on the way home to go around pointless red lights, we all know the ones.No traffic for miles and the lights insist on stopping you !!I’m also guilty of hopping onto the pavement on the way home to stop for a drink as the hills are a killer
So I use pavements now and again , for my own safety and not to hinder the road traffic when I’am barely moving uphill, so shoot me !!
Plenty of plods have seen me hop off the road on the steep uphill sections and never bothered me.They must think hang on , that bloke is using common sense and getting out of the way of much faster traffic.
As you say its about common sense. 4 0r 5 A.M. wont incovenience a pedestrian so might as well use pavement and let the traffic flow.