wide-load85:
Franglais, whilst I agree you are correct and yes obviously a solo unit is a rigid vehicle weighing approx 7.5t, it’s one of those grey areas. A rigid driver wanted to take an artic unit to show this year, our tm phoned police and asked, they didn’t have a clue so he phoned dvsa themselves and couldn’t even get a straight answer out of them. So until they gave us a definitive yes he couldn’t take it to show. Whilst I am in agreement with you, I wouldn’t want to be arguing the point with dvsa on the roadside.
if you take that argument to its logical extreme, it would mean that a rigid equipped for towing a drawbar trailer could not be driven solo by a driver only holding a Category C licence.
As Franglais says, any vehicle without a trailer is a rigid. It really is that simple.
I had this same issue with our former driver trainer; he insisted I could not drive the unit, I told him he was talking out of his backside; checked with TM, he checked the law, law said yes I could. Took the driver trainer a while to get over it but I enjoyed the peace and quiet.
wide-load85:
Franglais, whilst I agree you are correct and yes obviously a solo unit is a rigid vehicle weighing approx 7.5t, it’s one of those grey areas. A rigid driver wanted to take an artic unit to show this year, our tm phoned police and asked, they didn’t have a clue so he phoned dvsa themselves and couldn’t even get a straight answer out of them. So until they gave us a definitive yes he couldn’t take it to show. Whilst I am in agreement with you, I wouldn’t want to be arguing the point with dvsa on the roadside.
Although I dont agree that its grey area: a tractor is a rigid, that`s all there is to it, I can see a T.M. who is not so sure may take the easier option of avoiding the situation by saying C+E holder only.
One may wonder about the T.M. however?
It comes down to. “Well, you could…”. I remember being sent back from a fitters yard in a tractor unit when I only had my C, my boss went nuts and called them to give a right good ear bashing. I argued that I could drive it as it counts as a rigid under the new(er) rules, he turned round and said that I could of put that unit under any of the trailers in the yard and thus would be illegal. It was a circle argument where both parties are correct. Until you actually remove the 5th wheel, there is always that option that you could attach a trailer without the proper license.
The fact you could put a trailer on and therefore break the law is a crap argument, my car does far more than the national speed limit, but I only break the law if I actually exceed that limit, I could drive a JCB to a cash machine, but I’ve only broken the law when I’ve driven it through the wall and grabbed the machine, the the law can only be applied to what you have done not what you might do.
wide-load85:
Franglais, whilst I agree you are correct and yes obviously a solo unit is a rigid vehicle weighing approx 7.5t, it’s one of those grey areas. A rigid driver wanted to take an artic unit to show this year, our tm phoned police and asked, they didn’t have a clue so he phoned dvsa themselves and couldn’t even get a straight answer out of them. So until they gave us a definitive yes he couldn’t take it to show. Whilst I am in agreement with you, I wouldn’t want to be arguing the point with dvsa on the roadside.
No grey area at all.
A unit can be driven by a C licence holder absolutely no issue, when it was Class 1 and 2 they were separate licences and yes a Class 2 driver could not drive a unit solo. When the classes changed to C and C+E a unit falls under C designation the same as a rigid vehicle that can be driven by a C licence holder and tow up to 750kg as per the rules. The additional E part of the licence enables you to tow a trailer over 750kg. There is no grey area. A unit requires a C licence to be driven simple as that.
Definitely this. And iirc you can drive an artic unit that weighs 7.5t or under (eg a 4x2 unit) on an older car license that has a C1 entitlement. No hgv test needed.
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Johneboy:
Definitely this. And iirc you can drive an artic unit that weighs 7.5t or under (eg a 4x2 unit) on an older car license that has a C1 entitlement. No hgv test needed.
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[/quote]
Can’t do that fella as it’ll be plated over 7.5t, it’s actual weight is irrelevant.
You used to be able to drive an incomplete vehicle on a car license, ie a unit without a fifth wheel, but than ended in 1998 and is nothing to do with the licensing change in 1997
robroy:
Having read all this, it just goes to show how this crap industry is just one big cluster [zb] of over regulation.
Going to a truck show at weekends driving a truck there, or even attending full stop, aint exactly my cup of tea personally, but many drivers are up for it…
It’s blatantly obvious that it’s a social non working event done voluntarily, so why tf can they not relax their stupid petty pedantic [zb] rules and show a bit of common sense.
At the other extreme I remember the days when some drivers even used their units at werkends as a car.
I myself used to travel 10 miles in my unit to my old home town on a Sat night, have a few pints with mates, kip in unit, and drive it back next day…no work involved, just used for my own convenience.
Ok it’s all micro managed ■■■■■■■■, fuel figures and all the rest of it these days, but surely there is room for a bit of discretion in the case of a truck show, carnival, or truck related charity events.
It’s the same with everything these days, no leeway and any excuse to [zb] do you.
Like I said Rob, put her out of scope and it’s not a problem.
This place is worse that an RDC room for driver talk and fantastical stories. Some here should really working on the next Harry Potter replacement. It’s up to you to recognise the BS.
Carrying a rosette is apparently now classified as hire & reward so I’m folked next weekend as I’m taking the wife to a Baking competition and If she wins something she’ll have to walk home as I have neither a PSV licence or a Private Hire Plate.
I’ve been told on many occasions that when a yard runs an O licence, a “blind eye” is turned to small amounts of “unaccountable miles” on all tractors based out of that yard.
So, if a truck were doing say, 1000 miles per week performing normal running duties among several drivers using that tractor throughout the week, if there was a discrepency of say, 6 miles - “nothing would be said”. Those 6 miles would be attributed to “shunting that tractor about that yard” with no card inserted.
If there was a spot check by the authorities on a yard, and a tractor was found to have say, 1654 miles, with around 720 of them “unaccounted for” miles - then I would imagine they would be come down upon that yard/O licence holder - like a ton of bricks!!
Thus, I would suggest that anyone running up and down the M6 with “no card in” - is asking to get their arse kicked - big time. Owner driver, O licence holder, or not.
Winseer:
If there was a spot check by the authorities on a yard, and a tractor was found to have say, 1654 miles, with around 720 of them “unaccounted for” miles - then I would imagine they would be come down upon that yard/O licence holder - like a ton of bricks!!
That’s a fair point Winseer and DVSA wouldn’t be doing their job properly without investigating the discrepancy so you have better kept some evidence of what Rob now does on his free time.
So you simply give them the evidence they need such as Rob’s entry ticket or registration or his Best Fuel Tank prize and everyone is happy.
The important thing is to remember that in this highly regulated industry we still have a few rights left and I certainly won’t abandon those rights for the lazy convenience of DVSA et Al.
Winseer:
Thus, I would suggest that anyone running up and down the M6 with “no card in” - is asking to get their arse kicked - big time. Owner driver, O licence holder, or not.
Like I said we have a few rights left so put the tacho out of scope and if tugged show some evidence to show why it’s out of scope and enjoy your weekend with the few rights you have left as a truck driver.
Of course if Rob has no evidence whatsoever then I think you have already described very well the most likely outcome.
robroy:
Having read all this, it just goes to show how this crap industry is just one big cluster [zb] of over regulation.
Going to a truck show at weekends driving a truck there, or even attending full stop, aint exactly my cup of tea personally, but many drivers are up for it…
It’s blatantly obvious that it’s a social non working event done voluntarily, so why tf can they not relax their stupid petty pedantic [zb] rules and show a bit of common sense.
At the other extreme I remember the days when some drivers even used their units at werkends as a car.
I myself used to travel 10 miles in my unit to my old home town on a Sat night, have a few pints with mates, kip in unit, and drive it back next day…no work involved, just used for my own convenience.
Ok it’s all micro managed ■■■■■■■■, fuel figures and all the rest of it these days, but surely there is room for a bit of discretion in the case of a truck show, carnival, or truck related charity events.
It’s the same with everything these days, no leeway and any excuse to [zb] do you.
Like I said Rob, put her out of scope and it’s not a problem.
This place is worse that an RDC room for driver talk and fantastical stories. Some here should really working on the next Harry Potter replacement. It’s up to you to recognise the BS.
Carrying a rosette is apparently now classified as hire & reward so I’m folked next weekend as I’m taking the wife to a Baking competition and If she wins something she’ll have to walk home as I have neither a PSV licence or a Private Hire Plate.
Saying it again doesn’t make it right, personal use exemption is capped at 7.5t unless the vehicle is over 25 years old.
So putting it out of scope will not be alright as you’re in scope
Johneboy:
Definitely this. And iirc you can drive an artic unit that weighs 7.5t or under (eg a 4x2 unit) on an older car license that has a C1 entitlement. No hgv test needed.
Sent from my CMR-W09 using Tapatalk
Can’t do that fella as it’ll be plated over 7.5t, it’s actual weight is irrelevant.
You used to be able to drive an incomplete vehicle on a car license, ie a unit without a fifth wheel, but than ended in 1998 and is nothing to do with the licensing change in 1997.
Oops . Was told this years ago by someone who is and has been a hgv instructor for quite a few years
Ah well, thanks for the correct info .
Good job I never tried to when I was younger.
robroy:
Having read all this, it just goes to show how this crap industry is just one big cluster [zb] of over regulation.
Going to a truck show at weekends driving a truck there, or even attending full stop, aint exactly my cup of tea personally, but many drivers are up for it…
It’s blatantly obvious that it’s a social non working event done voluntarily, so why tf can they not relax their stupid petty pedantic [zb] rules and show a bit of common sense.
At the other extreme I remember the days when some drivers even used their units at werkends as a car.
I myself used to travel 10 miles in my unit to my old home town on a Sat night, have a few pints with mates, kip in unit, and drive it back next day…no work involved, just used for my own convenience.
Ok it’s all micro managed ■■■■■■■■, fuel figures and all the rest of it these days, but surely there is room for a bit of discretion in the case of a truck show, carnival, or truck related charity events.
It’s the same with everything these days, no leeway and any excuse to [zb] do you.
Like I said Rob, put her out of scope and it’s not a problem.
This place is worse that an RDC room for driver talk and fantastical stories. Some here should really working on the next Harry Potter replacement. It’s up to you to recognise the BS.
Carrying a rosette is apparently now classified as hire & reward so I’m folked next weekend as I’m taking the wife to a Baking competition and If she wins something she’ll have to walk home as I have neither a PSV licence or a Private Hire Plate.
I’m laughing to hard at that, I thi k that means I should have gone to bed by now
. Was told this years ago by someone who is and has been a hgv instructor for quite a few years 
.